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AMD X2 Stock Cooler not doing the job

Discussion in 'AMD Overclocking' started by Dylan C, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. Dylan C

    Dylan C Guest

    While answering another poster's question about temps, I noticed mine
    have gotten too high. I'm running a socket 939 X2 3800+ (now at stock
    settings) that idles near 50C. Ambient room temp right now is 81F/27C,
    so I expect idle temps to be slightly elevated, but 50C seems a bit much
    and full load temps are in the upper 60s.

    System info:
    Antec case w/ 120mm exhaust fan on low setting. The case includes an
    air duct which does a fair job of ducting fresh exterior air onto the
    CPU. Stock AMD cooler. Three IDE hard disks, one optical drive,
    Geforce3 Ti200 AGP graphics. The system lays on its side. See the case
    here:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129152

    My first thought was airflow. I've done a decent job of routing
    cabling, so the interior is fairly open. I put the 120mm exhaust fan on
    full speed with no real change in idle temps. The case sits in the
    corner of the room, so I thought maybe the ambient airflow was the
    problem. I set up a regular house fan near the PC to increase the
    amount of cool, fresh air moving around and again, no real difference.
    Thinking that maybe the single exhaust fan wasnt enough, I pulled the
    side (top) off the case, leaving the house fan running to keep fresh air
    flowing through the area. Still, idle temps are steady around 49C and
    load temps are 67C. It appears that airflow is not causing the problem.

    My next step is to pull the HSF and reapply the AS Ceramique between it
    and the CPU. I just did this recently when I removed and cleaned the
    heatsink, so I doubt that will solve the problem. In the meantime I'm
    thinking a new heatsink might be in order and I'd like to know what
    models are not only effective, but also reasonalby priced and quiet.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    -Dylan C
     
    Dylan C, Oct 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. Dylan C

    Dylan C Guest

    Dylan C wrote:
    > While answering another poster's question about temps, I noticed mine
    > have gotten too high. I'm running a socket 939 X2 3800+ (now at stock
    > settings) that idles near 50C. Ambient room temp right now is 81F/27C,
    > so I expect idle temps to be slightly elevated, but 50C seems a bit much
    > and full load temps are in the upper 60s.
    >
    > System info:
    > Antec case w/ 120mm exhaust fan on low setting. The case includes an
    > air duct which does a fair job of ducting fresh exterior air onto the
    > CPU. Stock AMD cooler. Three IDE hard disks, one optical drive,
    > Geforce3 Ti200 AGP graphics. The system lays on its side. See the case
    > here:
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129152
    >
    > My first thought was airflow. I've done a decent job of routing
    > cabling, so the interior is fairly open. I put the 120mm exhaust fan on
    > full speed with no real change in idle temps. The case sits in the
    > corner of the room, so I thought maybe the ambient airflow was the
    > problem. I set up a regular house fan near the PC to increase the
    > amount of cool, fresh air moving around and again, no real difference.
    > Thinking that maybe the single exhaust fan wasnt enough, I pulled the
    > side (top) off the case, leaving the house fan running to keep fresh air
    > flowing through the area. Still, idle temps are steady around 49C and
    > load temps are 67C. It appears that airflow is not causing the problem.
    >
    > My next step is to pull the HSF and reapply the AS Ceramique between it
    > and the CPU. I just did this recently when I removed and cleaned the
    > heatsink, so I doubt that will solve the problem. In the meantime I'm
    > thinking a new heatsink might be in order and I'd like to know what
    > models are not only effective, but also reasonalby priced and quiet.
    >
    > Thanks in advance for your input.
    >
    > -Dylan C


    Pulled the HSF and the thermal compund had dried so much it pulled the
    CPU right out of the socket with it. Luckily, no pins were bent and it
    was a simple matter of separating the two and cleaning them up. At that
    point, I decided to test a theory of another regular in this group and
    use some white lithium grease from NAPA instead of my AS Ceramique.

    http://tinyurl.com/lgbql

    Idle temps dropped to 38C and load temps to 61C. Thats with the side on
    and the 120mm fan at its middle setting. I'll let the grease burn in
    for a few days before I make a final judgement on its effectiveness, but
    I think its safe to say spending $5-$6 on 3 grams of thermal compound is
    basically a waste of money.

    My load temps of 61C are still a bit high. I run SETI@Home which keeps
    my CPU at a steady 50% load and a current temp of 55C. I'd like to get
    that under 50. If a new heatsink could do that for under $30, that'd be
    great.

    -Dylan C
     
    Dylan C, Oct 8, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Dylan C

    Guest

    Looks like we're on the same boat, Dylan (now I don't feel so bad about
    my cooler)
    >From an engineering standpoint, I think first you should determine how

    efficient the heat transfer to the heat sink is. Measure how quickly
    the CPU core temp returns to idle levels from max load, i.e....In my
    case the temperature drops 10 degrees in 2 seconds...that's pretty damn
    fast and it tells me that I've optimum heat transfer between the CPU
    and the heatsink. If that's the case and the delta (T) idle/max load is
    more than 30 C, then it just means that the CPU heat output is
    exceeding the design cooling capacity for the particular heatsink.
    Personally, I'm beginning to think that high 30's to high 50s/low60s is
    acceptable for AMD X2's...Your lithium grease comment is
    interesting...given that lithium is added to the base lubricate oil
    just as a thickening agent to make it into a grease (to increase
    resistance to shear forces in bearings, etc.) and not as a heat
    transfer additive.

    Cheers,

    JC

    Dylan C wrote:
    > Dylan C wrote:
    > > While answering another poster's question about temps, I noticed mine
    > > have gotten too high. I'm running a socket 939 X2 3800+ (now at stock
    > > settings) that idles near 50C. Ambient room temp right now is 81F/27C,
    > > so I expect idle temps to be slightly elevated, but 50C seems a bit much
    > > and full load temps are in the upper 60s.
    > >
    > > System info:
    > > Antec case w/ 120mm exhaust fan on low setting. The case includes an
    > > air duct which does a fair job of ducting fresh exterior air onto the
    > > CPU. Stock AMD cooler. Three IDE hard disks, one optical drive,
    > > Geforce3 Ti200 AGP graphics. The system lays on its side. See the case
    > > here:
    > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129152
    > >
    > > My first thought was airflow. I've done a decent job of routing
    > > cabling, so the interior is fairly open. I put the 120mm exhaust fan on
    > > full speed with no real change in idle temps. The case sits in the
    > > corner of the room, so I thought maybe the ambient airflow was the
    > > problem. I set up a regular house fan near the PC to increase the
    > > amount of cool, fresh air moving around and again, no real difference.
    > > Thinking that maybe the single exhaust fan wasnt enough, I pulled the
    > > side (top) off the case, leaving the house fan running to keep fresh air
    > > flowing through the area. Still, idle temps are steady around 49C and
    > > load temps are 67C. It appears that airflow is not causing the problem.
    > >
    > > My next step is to pull the HSF and reapply the AS Ceramique between it
    > > and the CPU. I just did this recently when I removed and cleaned the
    > > heatsink, so I doubt that will solve the problem. In the meantime I'm
    > > thinking a new heatsink might be in order and I'd like to know what
    > > models are not only effective, but also reasonalby priced and quiet.
    > >
    > > Thanks in advance for your input.
    > >
    > > -Dylan C

    >
    > Pulled the HSF and the thermal compund had dried so much it pulled the
    > CPU right out of the socket with it. Luckily, no pins were bent and it
    > was a simple matter of separating the two and cleaning them up. At that
    > point, I decided to test a theory of another regular in this group and
    > use some white lithium grease from NAPA instead of my AS Ceramique.
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/lgbql
    >
    > Idle temps dropped to 38C and load temps to 61C. Thats with the side on
    > and the 120mm fan at its middle setting. I'll let the grease burn in
    > for a few days before I make a final judgement on its effectiveness, but
    > I think its safe to say spending $5-$6 on 3 grams of thermal compound is
    > basically a waste of money.
    >
    > My load temps of 61C are still a bit high. I run SETI@Home which keeps
    > my CPU at a steady 50% load and a current temp of 55C. I'd like to get
    > that under 50. If a new heatsink could do that for under $30, that'd be
    > great.
    >
    > -Dylan C
     
    , Oct 8, 2006
    #3
  4. Dylan C

    Wes Newell Guest

    On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 21:11:16 -0500, Dylan C wrote:

    > Pulled the HSF and the thermal compund had dried so much it pulled the
    > CPU right out of the socket with it. Luckily, no pins were bent and it
    > was a simple matter of separating the two and cleaning them up. At that
    > point, I decided to test a theory of another regular in this group and
    > use some white lithium grease from NAPA instead of my AS Ceramique.
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/lgbql
    >

    Didn't see any temp specs for it. Their wheel bearing grease (what i used)
    is rated for 500F. Careful what you bought doesn't dry out on you or run
    when it gets hot.

    > Idle temps dropped to 38C and load temps to 61C. Thats with the side on
    > and the 120mm fan at its middle setting. I'll let the grease burn in
    > for a few days before I make a final judgement on its effectiveness, but
    > I think its safe to say spending $5-$6 on 3 grams of thermal compound is
    > basically a waste of money.
    >

    That's been proven many times over.:)

    > My load temps of 61C are still a bit high. I run SETI@Home which keeps
    > my CPU at a steady 50% load and a current temp of 55C. I'd like to get
    > that under 50. If a new heatsink could do that for under $30, that'd be
    > great.
    >

    I'm using the stock cooler with my AM2 X2 3800+ and it tops out about 50
    something running both cores at 100%, and about 42C running 1 at 100%. But
    most of time mine is using less than 5% even with the cores running at
    half speed. Yeah, a waste, but I wanted dual core and at least there's
    plenty of reserve power when I need it. I also disabled smartfan an the
    little fan runs at 3000rpm constant. One of these days I'll put a fan
    adapter on it with an 80x25mm fan. that alone should help the cooling.

    --
    Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
    http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
    My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
    HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
     
    Wes Newell, Oct 8, 2006
    #4
  5. Dylan C

    oldwolf Guest

    Quite a good cooler is the Arctic Cooling, Freezer64 pro (Ithink it is). Got
    it running on my x2 3800 and idles at ~25C, loads at ~45C. I have no
    problems with it at all. Easy to install and no looking after.



    "Dylan C" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    While answering another poster's question about temps, I noticed mine
    have gotten too high. I'm running a socket 939 X2 3800+ (now at stock
    settings) that idles near 50C. Ambient room temp right now is 81F/27C,
    so I expect idle temps to be slightly elevated, but 50C seems a bit much
    and full load temps are in the upper 60s.

    System info:
    Antec case w/ 120mm exhaust fan on low setting. The case includes an
    air duct which does a fair job of ducting fresh exterior air onto the
    CPU. Stock AMD cooler. Three IDE hard disks, one optical drive,
    Geforce3 Ti200 AGP graphics. The system lays on its side. See the case
    here:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129152

    My first thought was airflow. I've done a decent job of routing
    cabling, so the interior is fairly open. I put the 120mm exhaust fan on
    full speed with no real change in idle temps. The case sits in the
    corner of the room, so I thought maybe the ambient airflow was the
    problem. I set up a regular house fan near the PC to increase the
    amount of cool, fresh air moving around and again, no real difference.
    Thinking that maybe the single exhaust fan wasnt enough, I pulled the
    side (top) off the case, leaving the house fan running to keep fresh air
    flowing through the area. Still, idle temps are steady around 49C and
    load temps are 67C. It appears that airflow is not causing the problem.

    My next step is to pull the HSF and reapply the AS Ceramique between it
    and the CPU. I just did this recently when I removed and cleaned the
    heatsink, so I doubt that will solve the problem. In the meantime I'm
    thinking a new heatsink might be in order and I'd like to know what
    models are not only effective, but also reasonalby priced and quiet.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    -Dylan C
     
    oldwolf, Oct 8, 2006
    #5
  6. Dylan C

    Dylan C Guest

    wrote:
    > Looks like we're on the same boat, Dylan (now I don't feel so bad about
    > my cooler)
    >>From an engineering standpoint, I think first you should determine how

    > efficient the heat transfer to the heat sink is. Measure how quickly
    > the CPU core temp returns to idle levels from max load, i.e....In my
    > case the temperature drops 10 degrees in 2 seconds...that's pretty damn
    > fast and it tells me that I've optimum heat transfer between the CPU
    > and the heatsink.

    Even before I put the new thermal grease on my temps would drop from
    ~68C to ~55C instantly. That would indicate decent thermal transfer, as
    you point out. It was my high idle temps (20C over ambient) that really
    signaled a problem. That indicated very poor thermal transfer. Since
    your idle temps are reasonable, I'd assume thermal grease isn't a
    problem in your system.

    > If that's the case and the delta (T) idle/max load is
    > more than 30 C, then it just means that the CPU heat output is
    > exceeding the design cooling capacity for the particular heatsink.
    > Personally, I'm beginning to think that high 30's to high 50s/low60s is
    > acceptable for AMD X2's...Your lithium grease comment is
    > interesting...given that lithium is added to the base lubricate oil
    > just as a thickening agent to make it into a grease (to increase
    > resistance to shear forces in bearings, etc.) and not as a heat
    > transfer additive.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > JC

    Its my understanding that lithium increases the working temperature of
    the grease. I did a little more research (thanks Wes) and found out
    that my grease has a max lube temp of 170C. The point of using lithium
    grease wasn't to test the thermal conuctivity of the lithium, but more
    to demonstrate that "heat transfer additives" like micronized silver
    only add to the cost of thermal grease, and not its effectiveness.
    Grease, in this case lithium, already conucts heat well enough.

    -Dylan C


    >
    > Dylan C wrote:
    >
    >>Dylan C wrote:
    >>
    >>>While answering another poster's question about temps, I noticed mine
    >>>have gotten too high. I'm running a socket 939 X2 3800+ (now at stock
    >>>settings) that idles near 50C. Ambient room temp right now is 81F/27C,
    >>>so I expect idle temps to be slightly elevated, but 50C seems a bit much
    >>>and full load temps are in the upper 60s.
    >>>
    >>>System info:
    >>>Antec case w/ 120mm exhaust fan on low setting. The case includes an
    >>>air duct which does a fair job of ducting fresh exterior air onto the
    >>>CPU. Stock AMD cooler. Three IDE hard disks, one optical drive,
    >>>Geforce3 Ti200 AGP graphics. The system lays on its side. See the case
    >>>here:
    >>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129152
    >>>
    >>>My first thought was airflow. I've done a decent job of routing
    >>>cabling, so the interior is fairly open. I put the 120mm exhaust fan on
    >>>full speed with no real change in idle temps. The case sits in the
    >>>corner of the room, so I thought maybe the ambient airflow was the
    >>>problem. I set up a regular house fan near the PC to increase the
    >>>amount of cool, fresh air moving around and again, no real difference.
    >>>Thinking that maybe the single exhaust fan wasnt enough, I pulled the
    >>>side (top) off the case, leaving the house fan running to keep fresh air
    >>>flowing through the area. Still, idle temps are steady around 49C and
    >>>load temps are 67C. It appears that airflow is not causing the problem.
    >>>
    >>>My next step is to pull the HSF and reapply the AS Ceramique between it
    >>>and the CPU. I just did this recently when I removed and cleaned the
    >>>heatsink, so I doubt that will solve the problem. In the meantime I'm
    >>>thinking a new heatsink might be in order and I'd like to know what
    >>>models are not only effective, but also reasonalby priced and quiet.
    >>>
    >>>Thanks in advance for your input.
    >>>
    >>>-Dylan C

    >>
    >>Pulled the HSF and the thermal compund had dried so much it pulled the
    >>CPU right out of the socket with it. Luckily, no pins were bent and it
    >>was a simple matter of separating the two and cleaning them up. At that
    >>point, I decided to test a theory of another regular in this group and
    >>use some white lithium grease from NAPA instead of my AS Ceramique.
    >>
    >>http://tinyurl.com/lgbql
    >>
    >>Idle temps dropped to 38C and load temps to 61C. Thats with the side on
    >>and the 120mm fan at its middle setting. I'll let the grease burn in
    >>for a few days before I make a final judgement on its effectiveness, but
    >>I think its safe to say spending $5-$6 on 3 grams of thermal compound is
    >>basically a waste of money.
    >>
    >>My load temps of 61C are still a bit high. I run SETI@Home which keeps
    >>my CPU at a steady 50% load and a current temp of 55C. I'd like to get
    >>that under 50. If a new heatsink could do that for under $30, that'd be
    >>great.
    >>
    >>-Dylan C

    >
    >
     
    Dylan C, Oct 8, 2006
    #6
  7. Dylan C

    Dylan C Guest

    Wes Newell wrote:
    > On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 21:11:16 -0500, Dylan C wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Pulled the HSF and the thermal compund had dried so much it pulled the
    >>CPU right out of the socket with it. Luckily, no pins were bent and it
    >>was a simple matter of separating the two and cleaning them up. At that
    >>point, I decided to test a theory of another regular in this group and
    >>use some white lithium grease from NAPA instead of my AS Ceramique.
    >>
    >>http://tinyurl.com/lgbql
    >>

    >
    > Didn't see any temp specs for it. Their wheel bearing grease (what i used)
    > is rated for 500F. Careful what you bought doesn't dry out on you or run
    > when it gets hot.
    >
    >

    Did some more digging and found max lube temp for this grease is
    335F/170C and drip temp is 360F/180C. Thanks for the tip.

    -Dylan C

    >>Idle temps dropped to 38C and load temps to 61C. Thats with the side on
    >>and the 120mm fan at its middle setting. I'll let the grease burn in
    >>for a few days before I make a final judgement on its effectiveness, but
    >>I think its safe to say spending $5-$6 on 3 grams of thermal compound is
    >>basically a waste of money.
    >>

    >
    > That's been proven many times over.:)
    >
    >
    >>My load temps of 61C are still a bit high. I run SETI@Home which keeps
    >>my CPU at a steady 50% load and a current temp of 55C. I'd like to get
    >>that under 50. If a new heatsink could do that for under $30, that'd be
    >>great.
    >>

    >
    > I'm using the stock cooler with my AM2 X2 3800+ and it tops out about 50
    > something running both cores at 100%, and about 42C running 1 at 100%. But
    > most of time mine is using less than 5% even with the cores running at
    > half speed. Yeah, a waste, but I wanted dual core and at least there's
    > plenty of reserve power when I need it. I also disabled smartfan an the
    > little fan runs at 3000rpm constant. One of these days I'll put a fan
    > adapter on it with an 80x25mm fan. that alone should help the cooling.
    >
     
    Dylan C, Oct 8, 2006
    #7
  8. "Dylan C" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Even before I put the new thermal grease on my temps would drop from ~68C
    > to ~55C instantly. That would indicate decent thermal transfer, as you
    > point out. It was my high idle temps (20C over ambient) that really
    > signaled a problem. That indicated very poor thermal transfer. Since
    > your idle temps are reasonable, I'd assume thermal grease isn't a problem
    > in your system.
    >

    Well let's see...we can't have it both ways, can we? You have good
    thermal transfer at 68 C.
    On the other hand you have elevated temperatures at idle...You say that
    this "indicated very poor thermal transfer"
    This is how I see it: Your temperature drops from 68 to 55 fast enough
    to tell me the interface between the heatsink and
    the CPU is ok, what's happening is that the heat stored in the cooler
    isn't being transported off the heatsink fast enough.
    If you say this is a recent condition that would mean one or more of
    several things:
    1. The CPU is producing more heat (?)
    2. The case ambient temperature is higher (explaining why at higher heat
    loads -higher delta (T)- the heat transfer is more efficient)
    3. The fan is no longer pulling the heat off as eficiently (bad fan/fan
    controller or encrusted/dusty heatsink)
    4. (related to 2.) Air circulation inside the case has changed or ambient
    (room) temperature has increased.

    In my case I think it means that the CPU cooler I have is barely adequate,
    and certain thermal stress conditions will
    outstrip its thermal capacity to cool this class of CPU. That's all.

    BTW I'm looking at the Thermaltake Venus 12; looks very powerful for the
    price and AMD approved.

    > Its my understanding that lithium increases the working temperature of the
    > grease. I did a little more research (thanks Wes) and found out that my
    > grease has a max lube temp of 170C. The point of using lithium grease
    > wasn't to test the thermal conuctivity of the lithium, but more to
    > demonstrate that "heat transfer additives" like micronized silver only add
    > to the cost of thermal grease, and not its effectiveness. Grease, in this
    > case lithium, already conucts heat well enough.
    >
    > -Dylan C
    >


    I suppose before the days of Arctic Silver...thermal grease had no other
    heat transfer additives?
    Good question...I don't know. But I think performance-wise, micronized
    silver suspended in
    modern thermal grease does increse the efficiency in the grease, no doubt
    about it. Whether
    there's price-gouging going on is another matter. :)

    Cheers,

    JC
     
    Alfredo Pantani, Oct 8, 2006
    #8
  9. Dylan C

    Wes Newell Guest

    On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 12:53:49 -0700, Alfredo Pantani wrote:

    > I suppose before the days of Arctic Silver...thermal grease had no other
    > heat transfer additives?
    > Good question...I don't know. But I think performance-wise, micronized
    > silver suspended in
    > modern thermal grease does increse the efficiency in the grease, no doubt
    > about it. Whether
    > there's price-gouging going on is another matter. :)


    It may well improve the performance. But the margin of improvement is so
    small it makes very little to no noticable difference. The actual main
    ingredient has a much greater affect. But that has to be averaged out to
    include prolonged performance. The A64 3000+ I used wheel bearing grease
    on is still working fine after 13+ months. based on the properties of the
    grease it should virtually last 50+ years. it was 30 years old when I used
    it. It had been open to the air in the gargage for about 20 of those years
    where temps varied from about -15C to over 60C each year. Wheel bearing
    grease has been around for maybe 200 years now and was specically designed
    for harse high temp environments. I'd use it over AS any day. And if
    someone wants to send me some AS to compare, I'll do it, but I'm certainly
    not going to buy any to do it.:)

    http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

    --
    Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
    http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
    My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
    HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
     
    Wes Newell, Oct 8, 2006
    #9
  10. Dylan C

    Dylan C Guest

    Alfredo Pantani wrote:
    > "Dylan C" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >>Even before I put the new thermal grease on my temps would drop from ~68C
    >>to ~55C instantly. That would indicate decent thermal transfer, as you
    >>point out. It was my high idle temps (20C over ambient) that really
    >>signaled a problem. That indicated very poor thermal transfer. Since
    >>your idle temps are reasonable, I'd assume thermal grease isn't a problem
    >>in your system.
    >>

    >
    > Well let's see...we can't have it both ways, can we? You have good
    > thermal transfer at 68 C.
    > On the other hand you have elevated temperatures at idle...You say that
    > this "indicated very poor thermal transfer"
    > This is how I see it: Your temperature drops from 68 to 55 fast enough
    > to tell me the interface between the heatsink and
    > the CPU is ok, what's happening is that the heat stored in the cooler
    > isn't being transported off the heatsink fast enough.
    > If you say this is a recent condition that would mean one or more of
    > several things:
    > 1. The CPU is producing more heat (?)
    > 2. The case ambient temperature is higher (explaining why at higher heat
    > loads -higher delta (T)- the heat transfer is more efficient)
    > 3. The fan is no longer pulling the heat off as eficiently (bad fan/fan
    > controller or encrusted/dusty heatsink)
    > 4. (related to 2.) Air circulation inside the case has changed or ambient
    > (room) temperature has increased.
    >

    Dried out thermal compound was the culprit. That suprised me becuase I
    had just reapplied it a few weeks ago. I guess I either did a poor job
    or the AS Ceramique I bought almost three years ago has exceeded its
    shelf life.

    -Dylan C

    > In my case I think it means that the CPU cooler I have is barely adequate,
    > and certain thermal stress conditions will
    > outstrip its thermal capacity to cool this class of CPU. That's all.
    >
    > BTW I'm looking at the Thermaltake Venus 12; looks very powerful for the
    > price and AMD approved.
    >
    >
    >>Its my understanding that lithium increases the working temperature of the
    >>grease. I did a little more research (thanks Wes) and found out that my
    >>grease has a max lube temp of 170C. The point of using lithium grease
    >>wasn't to test the thermal conuctivity of the lithium, but more to
    >>demonstrate that "heat transfer additives" like micronized silver only add
    >>to the cost of thermal grease, and not its effectiveness. Grease, in this
    >>case lithium, already conucts heat well enough.
    >>
    >>-Dylan C
    >>

    >
    >
    > I suppose before the days of Arctic Silver...thermal grease had no other
    > heat transfer additives?
    > Good question...I don't know. But I think performance-wise, micronized
    > silver suspended in
    > modern thermal grease does increse the efficiency in the grease, no doubt
    > about it. Whether
    > there's price-gouging going on is another matter. :)
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > JC
    >
    >
     
    Dylan C, Oct 8, 2006
    #10
  11. Dylan C

    Frodo Guest

    I'm happy with my Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro on my AMD X2 4200+, using
    Arctic Silver 5.
    The Freezer 64 is at a good price at Monarch Computers for $19.99 + $3 to $7
    for shipping, price at Newegg is $29.99.
    http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merc...e=M&Product_Code=130035&AFFIL=pricewatch&NR=1
    I've added a 120mm fan to the front of my case, moves lots of air.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999145

    "Dylan C" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > While answering another poster's question about temps, I noticed mine have
    > gotten too high. I'm running a socket 939 X2 3800+ (now at stock
    > settings) that idles near 50C. Ambient room temp right now is 81F/27C, so
    > I expect idle temps to be slightly elevated, but 50C seems a bit much and
    > full load temps are in the upper 60s.
    >
    > System info:
    > Antec case w/ 120mm exhaust fan on low setting. The case includes an air
    > duct which does a fair job of ducting fresh exterior air onto the CPU.
    > Stock AMD cooler. Three IDE hard disks, one optical drive, Geforce3 Ti200
    > AGP graphics. The system lays on its side. See the case here:
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129152
    >
    > My first thought was airflow. I've done a decent job of routing cabling,
    > so the interior is fairly open. I put the 120mm exhaust fan on full speed
    > with no real change in idle temps. The case sits in the corner of the
    > room, so I thought maybe the ambient airflow was the problem. I set up a
    > regular house fan near the PC to increase the amount of cool, fresh air
    > moving around and again, no real difference. Thinking that maybe the
    > single exhaust fan wasnt enough, I pulled the side (top) off the case,
    > leaving the house fan running to keep fresh air flowing through the area.
    > Still, idle temps are steady around 49C and load temps are 67C. It
    > appears that airflow is not causing the problem.
    >
    > My next step is to pull the HSF and reapply the AS Ceramique between it
    > and the CPU. I just did this recently when I removed and cleaned the
    > heatsink, so I doubt that will solve the problem. In the meantime I'm
    > thinking a new heatsink might be in order and I'd like to know what models
    > are not only effective, but also reasonalby priced and quiet.
    >
    > Thanks in advance for your input.
    >
    > -Dylan C
     
    Frodo, Oct 9, 2006
    #11
  12. Dylan C

    Guest

    , Oct 9, 2006
    #12
  13. Dylan C

    Guest

    Man..I got a kick out of that site! Be careful though, axle grease may
    contain grafite and that's a no-no around electronics. Tell Dan to test
    maple syrup next...LOL!

    Wes Newell wrote:
    > It may well improve the performance. But the margin of improvement is so
    > small it makes very little to no noticable difference. The actual main
    > ingredient has a much greater affect. But that has to be averaged out to
    > include prolonged performance. The A64 3000+ I used wheel bearing grease
    > on is still working fine after 13+ months. based on the properties of the
    > grease it should virtually last 50+ years. it was 30 years old when I used
    > it. It had been open to the air in the gargage for about 20 of those years
    > where temps varied from about -15C to over 60C each year. Wheel bearing
    > grease has been around for maybe 200 years now and was specically designed
    > for harse high temp environments. I'd use it over AS any day. And if
    > someone wants to send me some AS to compare, I'll do it, but I'm certainly
    > not going to buy any to do it.:)
    >
    > http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm
    >
    > --
    > Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
    > http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
    > My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
    > HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
     
    , Oct 9, 2006
    #13
  14. Dylan C

    Guest

    If you're still looking for a better heatsink/fan, I just ordered an
    Artic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro

    <http://www.provantage.com/arctic-acfzp64~7ARCT002.htm>

    for $22 shipped....great bargain considering the specs. Will let you
    know how it goes.

    Dylan C wrote:
    > Alfredo Pantani wrote:
    > > "Dylan C" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >
    > >>Even before I put the new thermal grease on my temps would drop from ~68C
    > >>to ~55C instantly. That would indicate decent thermal transfer, as you
    > >>point out. It was my high idle temps (20C over ambient) that really
    > >>signaled a problem. That indicated very poor thermal transfer. Since
    > >>your idle temps are reasonable, I'd assume thermal grease isn't a problem
    > >>in your system.
    > >>

    > >
    > > Well let's see...we can't have it both ways, can we? You have good
    > > thermal transfer at 68 C.
    > > On the other hand you have elevated temperatures at idle...You say that
    > > this "indicated very poor thermal transfer"
    > > This is how I see it: Your temperature drops from 68 to 55 fast enough
    > > to tell me the interface between the heatsink and
    > > the CPU is ok, what's happening is that the heat stored in the cooler
    > > isn't being transported off the heatsink fast enough.
    > > If you say this is a recent condition that would mean one or more of
    > > several things:
    > > 1. The CPU is producing more heat (?)
    > > 2. The case ambient temperature is higher (explaining why at higher heat
    > > loads -higher delta (T)- the heat transfer is more efficient)
    > > 3. The fan is no longer pulling the heat off as eficiently (bad fan/fan
    > > controller or encrusted/dusty heatsink)
    > > 4. (related to 2.) Air circulation inside the case has changed or ambient
    > > (room) temperature has increased.
    > >

    > Dried out thermal compound was the culprit. That suprised me becuase I
    > had just reapplied it a few weeks ago. I guess I either did a poor job
    > or the AS Ceramique I bought almost three years ago has exceeded its
    > shelf life.
    >
    > -Dylan C
    >
    > > In my case I think it means that the CPU cooler I have is barely adequate,
    > > and certain thermal stress conditions will
    > > outstrip its thermal capacity to cool this class of CPU. That's all.
    > >
    > > BTW I'm looking at the Thermaltake Venus 12; looks very powerful for the
    > > price and AMD approved.
    > >
    > >
    > >>Its my understanding that lithium increases the working temperature of the
    > >>grease. I did a little more research (thanks Wes) and found out that my
    > >>grease has a max lube temp of 170C. The point of using lithium grease
    > >>wasn't to test the thermal conuctivity of the lithium, but more to
    > >>demonstrate that "heat transfer additives" like micronized silver only add
    > >>to the cost of thermal grease, and not its effectiveness. Grease, in this
    > >>case lithium, already conucts heat well enough.
    > >>
    > >>-Dylan C
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > I suppose before the days of Arctic Silver...thermal grease had no other
    > > heat transfer additives?
    > > Good question...I don't know. But I think performance-wise, micronized
    > > silver suspended in
    > > modern thermal grease does increse the efficiency in the grease, no doubt
    > > about it. Whether
    > > there's price-gouging going on is another matter. :)
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > >
    > > JC
    > >
    > >
     
    , Oct 9, 2006
    #14
  15. Dylan C

    Dylan C Guest

    wrote:
    > If you're still looking for a better heatsink/fan, I just ordered an
    > Artic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro
    >
    > <http://www.provantage.com/arctic-acfzp64~7ARCT002.htm>
    >
    > for $22 shipped....great bargain considering the specs. Will let you
    > know how it goes.
    >


    Thanks...I'm interested in how well the heat pipes perform when they're
    mounted with the pipes in the horizontal direction. If it works for
    you, I might think of getting one as well. Just have to make sure it fits.

    I liked the dansdata review, too. I never thought toothpaste would work
    so well (at least in the short term). As far as vegemite goes, you've
    got to be aussie or kiwi to eat that stuff...its downright nasty. Any
    use for it other than human consumption is a step in the right direction.

    -Dylan C
     
    Dylan C, Oct 9, 2006
    #15
  16. Dylan C

    Dylan C Guest

    Maybe someone can shed some light on this subject for me....

    ALOT of current CPU coolers use heat pipes. I know the theory is great,
    but do they work well when the pipes are oriented horizontally? Its my
    understanding that a properly designed heat pipe requires either gravity
    or some type of wicking mechanism to make condensed liquid return to the
    portion of the heatsink in contact with the CPU. Most people with an
    ATX case would mount these in a way that gravity would actually prevent
    this from happening. The only other method is some type of wicking
    process. Maybe someone who has torn one apart or who has experimented
    with a heatpipe mounted in different orientations can provide some insight.

    -Dylan C
     
    Dylan C, Oct 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Dylan C

    Guest

    Check this out:

    http://www.electronics-cooling.com/Resources/EC_Articles/SEP96/sep96_02.htm

    I think it'll answer your questions.

    Dylan C wrote:
    > Maybe someone can shed some light on this subject for me....
    >
    > ALOT of current CPU coolers use heat pipes. I know the theory is great,
    > but do they work well when the pipes are oriented horizontally? Its my
    > understanding that a properly designed heat pipe requires either gravity
    > or some type of wicking mechanism to make condensed liquid return to the
    > portion of the heatsink in contact with the CPU. Most people with an
    > ATX case would mount these in a way that gravity would actually prevent
    > this from happening. The only other method is some type of wicking
    > process. Maybe someone who has torn one apart or who has experimented
    > with a heatpipe mounted in different orientations can provide some insight.
    >
    > -Dylan C
     
    , Oct 10, 2006
    #17
  18. Dylan C

    Guest

    I think the pipes are designed to work horizontally, since heat
    transfer is done through capillary action driven by partial pressure
    differentials in the working fluid (see the URL I provided in response
    to your other post). I particularly like the fan in the Freezer 64 pro
    fairly quiet but good flow, but what really sold me is the extremely
    low thermal resistance
    for the part (0.18C/Watt ), that means that at max heat output of 89
    watts for the X2 5000+,
    the theoretical maximum raise over ambient T would be ~ 17 C...Even
    allowing for imperfect
    case flow and T case > T ambient...the end result should be under 50 C,
    which is my goal.


    Dylan C wrote:
    > Thanks...I'm interested in how well the heat pipes perform when they're
    > mounted with the pipes in the horizontal direction. If it works for
    > you, I might think of getting one as well. Just have to make sure it fits.
    >
    > I liked the dansdata review, too. I never thought toothpaste would work
    > so well (at least in the short term). As far as vegemite goes, you've
    > got to be aussie or kiwi to eat that stuff...its downright nasty. Any
    > use for it other than human consumption is a step in the right direction.
    >
    > -Dylan C
     
    , Oct 10, 2006
    #18
  19. wrote:
    > Man..I got a kick out of that site! Be careful though, axle grease may
    > contain grafite and that's a no-no around electronics. Tell Dan to test
    > maple syrup next...LOL!
    >


    So graphite is bad and silver paste and aluminum paste is OK?

    I've been using axle grease without problems. A very thin layer works
    quite well. It doesn't break down and it doesn't crawl.
     
    Merrill P. L. Worthington, Oct 10, 2006
    #19
  20. Dylan C

    Frodo Guest

    I had the same reservations as you, I though you would need something like a
    desktop case,
    but the thing works fine in my tower.

    "Dylan C" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Maybe someone can shed some light on this subject for me....
    >
    > ALOT of current CPU coolers use heat pipes. I know the theory is great,
    > but do they work well when the pipes are oriented horizontally? Its my
    > understanding that a properly designed heat pipe requires either gravity
    > or some type of wicking mechanism to make condensed liquid return to the
    > portion of the heatsink in contact with the CPU. Most people with an ATX
    > case would mount these in a way that gravity would actually prevent this
    > from happening. The only other method is some type of wicking process.
    > Maybe someone who has torn one apart or who has experimented with a
    > heatpipe mounted in different orientations can provide some insight.
    >
    > -Dylan C
     
    Frodo, Oct 10, 2006
    #20
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