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Any very low power SPI flash?

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by Sink0, May 13, 2012.

  1. Sink0

    Sink0 Guest

    Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log a fe
    sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would be better
    The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be using a
    SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SS
    seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA at standby
    but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 fo
    instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows an
    other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?

    Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the flas
    directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i wil
    have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).

    Thank you!

    ---------------------------------------
    Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
     
    Sink0, May 13, 2012
    #1
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  2. Sink0

    Arlet Ottens Guest

    On 05/13/2012 08:38 PM, Sink0 wrote:
    > Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log a few
    > sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would be better.
    > The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be using an
    > SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SST
    > seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA at standby)
    > but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for
    > instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows any
    > other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    >
    > Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the flash
    > directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i will
    > have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).


    How about turning off the power to the flash when you're not using it ?
     
    Arlet Ottens, May 13, 2012
    #2
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  3. Sink0

    Stonethrower Guest

    > other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    MSP430 with embedded Ferromagnetic RAM
    (FRAM)http://www.ti.com/ww/en/mcu/fram_ul..._memory/index.htm?DCMP=FRAM&HQS=Other OT FRAM

    or
    MSP430 with external FRAM (info:
    http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/microelectronics/technical/fram/) in
    conjuction with GP MOSFET (2N7002) to control power line to the FRAM.

    --
    StoneThrower
    www.dgmicrosys.com

    "Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log a few
    > sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would be better.
    > The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be using an
    > SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SST
    > seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA at standby)
    > but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for
    > instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows any
    > other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    >
    > Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the flash
    > directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i
    > will
    > have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).
    >
    > Thank you!
    >
    > ---------------------------------------
    > Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
     
    Stonethrower, May 13, 2012
    #3
  4. Sink0

    Sink0 Guest

    >> other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    >MSP430 with embedded Ferromagnetic RAM
    >(FRAM)http://www.ti.com/ww/en/mcu/fram_ul..._memory/index.htm?DCMP=FRAM&HQS=Other OT FRAM
    >
    >or
    >MSP430 with external FRAM (info:
    >http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/microelectronics/technical/fram/

    in
    >conjuction with GP MOSFET (2N7002) to control power line to the FRAM.
    >
    >--
    >StoneThrower
    >www.dgmicrosys.com
    >
    >"Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log

    few
    >> sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would b

    better.
    >> The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be usin

    an
    >> SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SST
    >> seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA a

    standby)
    >> but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for
    >> instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one know

    any
    >> other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    >>
    >> Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering th

    flash
    >> directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i
    >> will
    >> have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).
    >>
    >> Thank you!
    >>
    >> ---------------------------------------
    >> Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

    >
    >


    I liked the power down idea, Very simple adn reduce to 1uA current due t
    the Mosfet. FRAM devices got very low memory or bulky packages so not th
    best solution for now. Any comment on powering a 2.7V flash from 3.0V coi
    battery? Thank you!

    ---------------------------------------
    Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
     
    Sink0, May 13, 2012
    #4
  5. [This followup was posted to comp.arch.embedded and a copy was sent to
    the cited author.]

    In article <>, sink00
    @n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com says...
    >
    > >> other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?

    > >MSP430 with embedded Ferromagnetic RAM
    > >(FRAM)http://www.ti.com/ww/en/mcu/fram_ul..._memory/index.htm?DCMP=FRAM&HQS=Other OT FRAM
    > >
    > >or
    > >MSP430 with external FRAM (info:
    > >http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/microelectronics/technical/fram/)

    > in
    > >conjuction with GP MOSFET (2N7002) to control power line to the FRAM.
    > >
    > >--
    > >StoneThrower
    > >www.dgmicrosys.com
    > >
    > >"Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log a

    > few
    > >> sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would be

    > better.
    > >> The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be using

    > an
    > >> SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SST
    > >> seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA at

    > standby)
    > >> but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for
    > >> instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows

    > any
    > >> other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    > >>
    > >> Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the

    > flash
    > >> directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i
    > >> will
    > >> have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).
    > >>
    > >> Thank you!
    > >>
    > >> ---------------------------------------
    > >> Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

    > >
    > >

    >
    > I liked the power down idea, Very simple adn reduce to 1uA current due to
    > the Mosfet. FRAM devices got very low memory or bulky packages so not the
    > best solution for now. Any comment on powering a 2.7V flash from 3.0V coin
    > battery? Thank you!
    >
    > ---------------------------------------


    I think you would do better to find a SPI Flash Chip that is specified
    in the data sheet to operate over a range of voltages that includes the
    range of voltages you are likely to see from your battery. Do note that
    some coin cells, when new, will show a higher voltage than the nominal
    3.0 volts. I have seen some as high as almost 3.3V.

    The Micron M25P15 part is specified to work correctly with a supply
    voltage range of 2.7 -> 3.6 volts. This should work well with a coin
    cell lithium battery as long as you make sure that your circuit shuts
    down operation when the battery voltage nears 2.7V at dischard of the
    batteryy.

    http://www.micron.com/parts/nor-flash/serial-nor-flash/
    ~/media/Documents/Products/Data%20Sheet/NOR%20Flash/5976M25P16.ashx

    --

    Michael Karas
    Carousel Design Solutions
    http://www.carousel-design.com
     
    Michael Karas, May 14, 2012
    #5
  6. Sink0

    rob Guest

    "Arlet Ottens" <> wrote in message
    news:4fb00052$0$6922$4all.nl...
    > On 05/13/2012 08:38 PM, Sink0 wrote:
    >> Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log a few
    >> sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would be
    >> better.
    >> The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be using an
    >> SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SST
    >> seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA at standby)
    >> but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for
    >> instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows any
    >> other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    >>
    >> Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the flash
    >> directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i
    >> will
    >> have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).

    >
    > How about turning off the power to the flash when you're not using it ?
    >
    >


    Yep - power from a spare uC pin. It'a worked for me.
     
    rob, May 14, 2012
    #6
  7. Sink0

    Anda Guest

    On May 13, 11:41 am, Arlet Ottens <> wrote:
    > On 05/13/2012 08:38 PM, Sink0 wrote:
    >
    > > Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log a few
    > > sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would be better.
    > > The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be using an
    > > SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SST
    > > seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA at standby)
    > > but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for
    > > instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows any
    > > other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?

    >
    > > Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the flash
    > > directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i will
    > > have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).

    >
    > How about turning off the power to the flash when you're not using it ?


    And buffer it to internal FLASH and/or EEPROM first.
     
    Anda, May 14, 2012
    #7
  8. On 2012-05-13 20:38, Sink0 wrote:
    > Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log a few
    > sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer would be better.
    > The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the data i will be using an
    > SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel and SST (Microchip) and SST
    > seems to have the lowest current consumption device (max 15uA at standby)
    > but it is still a bit high compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for
    > instance) and other sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows any
    > other SPI flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    >
    > Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the flash
    > directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i will
    > have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).
    >


    The idea of using the internal memory falls apart when you consider
    24 x 60 x 90 = 129600. With 3 sensors * 16 bit you need 7-800 kB.
    An internal controller is going to be expensive...

    I don't think that there are SPI flashes available with wide voltage
    ranges. If I were you, I would regulate the system to 1.8V, using an
    1.8V SPI Flash.

    If you power the SPI flash from an I/O Port, then you may run into
    a problem with power on reset times, forcing the SPI flash to be turned
    on for an extended time eating power.

    You can overcome this by caching some data before you turn on the
    SPI flash. With 3 sensors @ 16 bit, and caching for an hour,
    you need 360 bytes of RAM which is probably OK.
    Writing to internal EEPROM/FRAM, might also be OK-

    Not sure if you can get FRAM parts with 1.8V.
    There are 0.9V parts in the AVR series which can run
    from std AA batteries, and contain a boost to 3.3V.

    Best Regards
    Ulf Samuelsson



    > Thank you!
    >
    > ---------------------------------------
    > Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
     
    Ulf Samuelsson, May 15, 2012
    #8
  9. Winbond W25Q16BV? Supply voltage operating range 2.7 to 3.6 volts,
    typical power-down current 1 µA (achievable by using the SPI "power
    down" command).

    Chris

    On Sun, 13 May 2012 20:41:22 +0200
    Arlet Ottens <> wrote:

    > On 05/13/2012 08:38 PM, Sink0 wrote:
    > > Hi, i am developing a battery (CR2032) powered device that must log
    > > a few sensors for a minimum of 3 months every minute but longer
    > > would be better. The duty cycle is very low. In order to save the
    > > data i will be using an SPI flash (16Mb). I was comparing at Atmel
    > > and SST (Microchip) and SST seems to have the lowest current
    > > consumption device (max 15uA at standby) but it is still a bit high
    > > compared to the microcontroller (MSP430 for instance) and other
    > > sensors. Acceptable but high. Does any one knows any other SPI
    > > flash with lower idle current and reasonble availability?
    > >
    > > Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the
    > > flash directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a
    > > problem i will have to use a boost converter (more costly and less
    > > power efficient).

    >
    > How about turning off the power to the flash when you're not using
    > it ?
    >
    >
     
    Christopher Head, May 17, 2012
    #9
  10. Sink0

    Gary Lynch Guest

    On 5/13/2012 2:38 PM, Sink0 wrote:
    >
    > Second.. does any one knows if there is any problem on powering the flash
    > directly from the battery? Just asking becouse if there is a problem i will
    > have to use a boost converter (more costly and less power efficient).
    >

    Haven't tried this with flash, but a serial EEPROM had a separate
    battery power pin the would lock the device if Vcc wasn't a diode
    drop higher. As a previous poster noted, the 3.0 on the data sheet
    is a MINIMUM voltage, and they don't give a max, which made my
    devices useless until I switched power pin from 3.3 to 5 V.
     
    Gary Lynch, Jun 5, 2012
    #10
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