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ARM9 Choice

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by icegray, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. icegray

    icegray Guest

    Hi,
    I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
    need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
    ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
    and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
    share your experiences about this subject?
    Thanks in advance
     
    icegray, Feb 25, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. icegray wrote:

    > Hi,
    > I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > maybe rear camera and gps, etc.


    You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.


    Vladimir Vassilevsky
    DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
    http://www.abvolt.com
     
    Vladimir Vassilevsky, Feb 25, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. icegray

    icegray Guest

    On 25 ªubat, 17:54, Vladimir Vassilevsky <>
    wrote:
    > icegray wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > > I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > > details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > > audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > > maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >
    > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.
    >
    > Vladimir Vassilevsky
    > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultanthttp://www.abvolt.com


    This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
    mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
    Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.
     
    icegray, Feb 25, 2008
    #3

  4. >>>I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    >>>details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    >>>audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    >>>maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >>
    >>You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.
    >>

    > This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
    > mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
    > Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.



    If you need the automotive infortaiment project to be built on time and
    done for good, you need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or
    Embedded XP. If your real goal is to prove something, you may use ARM9,
    linux or whatsoever.


    Vladimir Vassilevsky
    DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
    http://www.abvolt.com
     
    Vladimir Vassilevsky, Feb 25, 2008
    #4
  5. icegray

    Tim Wescott Guest

    On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

    > icegray wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >
    > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.


    Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
    sell and make money for your company.

    The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
    product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
    you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
    serious engineering.

    I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
    itself. The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
    and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:

    * Are you going to stream video at all? If everything else can go at
    "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. This means that having that
    rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.

    * Are you going to stream video through the processor? I.e., can you get
    by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
    running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
    like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
    byte that goes through?

    * Are you going to decompress video in the processor? Are you going to
    be playing MPEG files and DVDs? If _that's_ the case then maybe
    Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
    you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
    getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
    video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

    I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
    from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
    force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
    linux). Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
    principal, either. I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons:
    it always pisses me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
    how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
    tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
    through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
    on the OS in the first place. So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
    Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
    benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
    consideration.

    --
    Tim Wescott
    Control systems and communications consulting
    http://www.wescottdesign.com

    Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
    "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
    Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
     
    Tim Wescott, Feb 25, 2008
    #5
  6. icegray <> wrote:
    > On Feb 25, 6:32 pm, Tim Wescott <> wrote:
    >> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
    >> > icegray wrote:

    >>
    >> >> Hi,
    >> >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    >> >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    >> >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    >> >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >>
    >> > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.

    >
    > ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
    > explain more?
    >
    >>
    >> Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
    >> sell and make money for your company.  
    >>
    >> The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
    >> product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
    >> you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
    >> serious engineering.
    >>
    >> I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
    >> itself.  The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
    >> and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:
    >>
    >> * Are you going to stream video at all?  If everything else can go at
    >> "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest.  This means that having that
    >> rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.
    >>
    >> * Are you going to stream video through the processor?  I.e., can you get
    >> by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
    >> running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
    >> like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
    >> byte that goes through?
    >>
    >> * Are you going to decompress video in the processor?  Are you going to
    >> be playing MPEG files and DVDs?  If _that's_ the case then maybe
    >> Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
    >> you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
    >> getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
    >> video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

    >
    > You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
    > that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
    > of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
    > If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
    > camera data streaming.


    You can use e.g. something from DaVinci family from TI. It will work much
    better than a Pentium-XYZ, you don't need Windoze, it will drive your LCD,
    videocamera and everything else (probably excluding CAN) right off the chip.
    It will cost less than Pentium-XYZ and Linux is totally free. You will get
    all the graphics and GUI you need with it and it will draw 100 times less
    power.

    Don't buy Windoze crap. It is not worth it.

    ---
    ******************************************************************
    * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
    * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
    ******************************************************************

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
     
    Sergey Kubushin, Feb 25, 2008
    #6
  7. icegray

    icegray Guest

    On Feb 25, 6:32 pm, Tim Wescott <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
    > > icegray wrote:

    >
    > >> Hi,
    > >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >
    > > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.


    ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
    explain more?

    >
    > Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
    > sell and make money for your company.  
    >
    > The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
    > product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
    > you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
    > serious engineering.
    >
    > I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
    > itself.  The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
    > and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:
    >
    > * Are you going to stream video at all?  If everything else can go at
    > "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest.  This means that having that
    > rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.
    >
    > * Are you going to stream video through the processor?  I.e., can you get
    > by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
    > running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
    > like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
    > byte that goes through?
    >
    > * Are you going to decompress video in the processor?  Are you going to
    > be playing MPEG files and DVDs?  If _that's_ the case then maybe
    > Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
    > you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
    > getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
    > video decompresser (if such things exist these days).


    You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
    that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
    of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
    If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
    camera data streaming.

    >
    > I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
    > from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
    > force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
    > linux).  Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
    > principal, either.  I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons:  
    > it always pisses me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
    > how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
    > tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
    > through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
    > on the OS in the first place.  So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
    > Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
    > benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
    > consideration.
    >


    I have never use OS in embedded but i have research about it. I think
    linux is better choice with ARM9. Also if ARM9 not usable for this
    features what is your recommendation?

    > --
    > Tim Wescott
    > Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com
    >
    > Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
    > "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
    > Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
     
    icegray, Feb 25, 2008
    #7
  8. icegray

    linnix Guest

    On Feb 25, 9:46 am, icegray <> wrote:
    > On Feb 25, 6:32 pm, Tim Wescott <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
    > > > icegray wrote:

    >
    > > >> Hi,
    > > >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > > >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > > >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > > >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >
    > > > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.

    >
    > ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
    > explain more?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
    > > sell and make money for your company.

    >
    > > The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
    > > product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
    > > you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
    > > serious engineering.

    >
    > > I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
    > > itself. The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
    > > and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:

    >
    > > * Are you going to stream video at all? If everything else can go at
    > > "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. This means that having that
    > > rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.

    >
    > > * Are you going to stream video through the processor? I.e., can you get
    > > by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
    > > running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
    > > like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
    > > byte that goes through?

    >
    > > * Are you going to decompress video in the processor? Are you going to
    > > be playing MPEG files and DVDs? If _that's_ the case then maybe
    > > Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
    > > you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
    > > getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
    > > video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

    >
    > You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
    > that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
    > of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
    > If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
    > camera data streaming.
    >
    >
    >
    > > I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
    > > from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
    > > force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
    > > linux). Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
    > > principal, either. I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons:
    > > it always pisses me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
    > > how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
    > > tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
    > > through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
    > > on the OS in the first place. So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
    > > Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
    > > benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
    > > consideration.

    >
    > I have never use OS in embedded but i have research about it. I think
    > linux is better choice with ARM9. Also if ARM9 not usable for this
    > features what is your recommendation?
    >


    I use something similar for video capture and payback.

    My ideal linux board is a 1G Pentium III uATX board with SIS chip set
    (not VIA or Intel). It supports 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 kernels. 2.2 is
    important for me because certain features I need are not available in
    newer kernels which are Window-lized (getting too big). Newer PC
    boards don't work too well with 2.2.

    Actually, the board was a throw-away from someone "upgrading" to
    Vista. I would gladly "upgrade" your board free with newer one, if
    you have the right one I need.
     
    linnix, Feb 25, 2008
    #8
  9. icegray

    linnix Guest

    On Feb 25, 10:52 am, linnix <-for.us> wrote:
    > On Feb 25, 9:46 am, icegray <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 25, 6:32 pm, Tim Wescott <> wrote:

    >
    > > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
    > > > > icegray wrote:

    >
    > > > >> Hi,
    > > > >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > > > >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > > > >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > > > >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >
    > > > > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.

    >
    > > ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
    > > explain more?

    >
    > > > Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
    > > > sell and make money for your company.

    >
    > > > The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
    > > > product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
    > > > you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
    > > > serious engineering.

    >
    > > > I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
    > > > itself. The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
    > > > and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:

    >
    > > > * Are you going to stream video at all? If everything else can go at
    > > > "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. This means that having that
    > > > rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.

    >
    > > > * Are you going to stream video through the processor? I.e., can you get
    > > > by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
    > > > running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
    > > > like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
    > > > byte that goes through?

    >
    > > > * Are you going to decompress video in the processor? Are you going to
    > > > be playing MPEG files and DVDs? If _that's_ the case then maybe
    > > > Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
    > > > you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
    > > > getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
    > > > video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

    >
    > > You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
    > > that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
    > > of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
    > > If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
    > > camera data streaming.

    >
    > > > I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
    > > > from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
    > > > force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
    > > > linux). Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
    > > > principal, either. I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons:
    > > > it always pisses me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
    > > > how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
    > > > tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
    > > > through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
    > > > on the OS in the first place. So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
    > > > Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
    > > > benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
    > > > consideration.

    >
    > > I have never use OS in embedded but i have research about it. I think
    > > linux is better choice with ARM9. Also if ARM9 not usable for this
    > > features what is your recommendation?

    >
    > I use something similar for video capture and payback.


    Sorry, "playback" of course.

    >
    > My ideal linux board is a 1G Pentium III uATX board with SIS chip set
    > (not VIA or Intel). It supports 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 kernels. 2.2 is
    > important for me because certain features I need are not available in
    > newer kernels which are Window-lized (getting too big). Newer PC
    > boards don't work too well with 2.2.
    >
    > Actually, the board was a throw-away from someone "upgrading" to
    > Vista. I would gladly "upgrade" your board free with newer one, if
    > you have the right one I need.
     
    linnix, Feb 25, 2008
    #9
  10. On Feb 25, 8:32 pm, icegray <> wrote:
    > Hi,
    > I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    > I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
    > need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
    > ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
    > and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
    > share your experiences about this subject?
    > Thanks in advance


    Check TI OMAP and TI DaVinci Processors.
    They are excellent.

    Karthik Balaguru
     
    karthikbalaguru, Feb 25, 2008
    #10
  11. "icegray" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > Hi,
    > I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    > I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
    > need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
    > ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
    > and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
    > share your experiences about this subject?
    > Thanks in advance


    The AT91SAM9263 has some interesting features for this.
    1) Dual bus.
    Refreshing 800 x 600 x 60 Hz * 16 bpp = 56,25 MB /second
    If you use a 40 MHz PSRAM you get 80 MB/second (max)
    so you use 70% of the bandwidth for refresh.
    The 800 x 600 is just on the border of what you can do on this bus.
    You can move over to 100 MHz SDRAM and the loading
    goes down , but you lose the Ethernet controller due to pin muxing.

    A good driver will draw the screen in the double buffered memory
    on the primary bus 100 Mhz 32 bit bus,
    and will let the DMA controller copy the buffer to a dual buffer on
    the secondary 16 bit bus.

    With a static picture, the display refresh will cause zero overhead on
    the primary bus

    2) There is a GPS receiver on the chip, but it is not documented :)
    Use an external chip on a serial port.

    3) There is an onboard CAN controller

    4) Embedded Linux or WinCE, no problem.

    5) The AT91SAM9G41 is basically a SAM9263 running at 400 MHz,
    (losing the CAN controller, unfortunately) and should be coming
    out in first samples mid this year, and general sampling (hopefully)
    late this year. It is not pin compatible, but a lot of the S/W work
    will be done by then.
    There will be a H/W video decoder in a version of this.

    6) If there is any volume behind this (around 20-30k), then you could
    consider
    the AT91CAP9 and an external FPGA for prototyping
    and then migrate to a customized CAP9 for 150k$

    --
    Best Regards,
    Ulf Samuelsson
    This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
    or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
     
    Ulf Samuelsson, Feb 25, 2008
    #11
  12. icegray

    icegray Guest

    On Feb 25, 9:30 pm, karthikbalaguru <>
    wrote:
    > On Feb 25, 8:32 pm, icegray <> wrote:
    >
    > > Hi,
    > > I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > > details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > > audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > > maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    > > I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
    > > need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
    > > ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
    > > and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
    > > share your experiences about this subject?
    > > Thanks in advance

    >
    > Check TI OMAP and TI DaVinci Processors.
    > They are excellent.
    >
    > Karthik Balaguru


    Ford Sync is a feature reach system and it use MX31. I need less then
    connectivity and video.

    http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=962825&highlight=
    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=25169

    I checked DaVinci and Omap but they are not suitable for automotive
    projects. There is only one DaVinci CPU at -40 +105.
     
    icegray, Feb 25, 2008
    #12
  13. icegray

    linnix Guest

    More questions for something entirely different:

    > If there is any volume behind this (around 20-30k), then you could
    > consider


    Depends on $ ea.

    > the AT91CAP9 and an external FPGA for prototyping
    > and then migrate to a customized CAP9 for 150k$


    Can it run in less than 20mA?
    Can it deep sleep/hibernate in less than 50uA?
    Is it possible to add analog comparators, op-amps and charge pumps?
    Can we specify the pad locations for wafer integrations?
     
    linnix, Feb 25, 2008
    #13
  14. icegray

    icegray Guest

    On Feb 25, 9:48 pm, "Ulf Samuelsson" <> wrote:
    > "icegray" <> skrev i meddelandetnews:...
    >
    > > Hi,
    > > I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > > details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > > audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    > > maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    > > I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
    > > need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
    > > ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
    > > and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
    > > share your experiences about this subject?
    > > Thanks in advance

    >
    > The AT91SAM9263 has some interesting features for this.
    > 1) Dual bus.
    >     Refreshing 800 x 600 x 60 Hz * 16 bpp = 56,25 MB /second
    >     If you use a 40 MHz PSRAM you get 80 MB/second (max)
    >     so you use 70% of the bandwidth for refresh.
    >     The 800 x 600 is just on the border of what you can do on this bus..
    >     You can move over to 100 MHz SDRAM and the loading
    >     goes down , but you lose the Ethernet controller due to pin muxing..
    >
    >     A good driver will draw the screen in the double buffered memory
    >     on the primary bus 100 Mhz 32 bit bus,
    >     and will let the DMA controller copy the buffer to a dual buffer on
    >     the secondary 16 bit bus.
    >
    >     With a static picture, the display refresh will cause zero overhead on
    >     the primary bus
    >
    > 2) There is a GPS receiver on the chip, but it is not documented :)
    >     Use an external chip on a serial port.
    >
    > 3) There is an onboard CAN controller
    >
    > 4) Embedded Linux or WinCE, no problem.
    >


    what is the main advantages of Dual External Bus Interface at
    AT91SAM9263? Can i connect and configure to different RAMs like as
    embedded computing RAM and video RAM? if yes, can i do it with linux?
     
    icegray, Feb 25, 2008
    #14
  15. icegray

    David Brown Guest

    Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
    >
    >>>> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    >>>> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    >>>> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    >>>> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    >>>
    >>> You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.
    >>>

    >> This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
    >> mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
    >> Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.

    >
    >
    > If you need the automotive infortaiment project to be built on time and
    > done for good, you need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or
    > Embedded XP. If your real goal is to prove something, you may use ARM9,
    > linux or whatsoever.
    >


    Isn't it scary enough that someone is designing an in-car computer based
    on some vague ideas and advice from a newsgroup, without adding windows
    on top?
     
    David Brown, Feb 25, 2008
    #15
  16. David Brown wrote:
    > Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:


    >>>>> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    >>>>> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    >>>>> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    >>>>> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.
    >>>>
    >>> This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
    >>> mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
    >>> Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.

    >>
    >> If you need the automotive infortaiment project to be built on time
    >> and done for good, you need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE
    >> or Embedded XP. If your real goal is to prove something, you may use
    >> ARM9, linux or whatsoever.
    >>

    > Isn't it scary enough that someone is designing an in-car computer based
    > on some vague ideas and advice from a newsgroup, without adding windows
    > on top?


    Not to worry. This is just another going to nowhere project which will
    be fortunately abandoned in a week or two. Or unfortunately abandoned in
    a year or two after spending several million of dollars. Nothing turns
    out to be more expensive then the so-called "free" stuff.


    Vladimir Vassilevsky
    DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
    http://www.abvolt.com
     
    Vladimir Vassilevsky, Feb 25, 2008
    #16
  17. icegray

    David Brown Guest

    Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
    >
    >
    > David Brown wrote:
    >> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

    >
    >>>>>> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    >>>>>> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    >>>>>> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded
    >>>>>> linux,
    >>>>>> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.
    >>>>>
    >>>> This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
    >>>> mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
    >>>> Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.
    >>>
    >>> If you need the automotive infortaiment project to be built on time
    >>> and done for good, you need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE
    >>> or Embedded XP. If your real goal is to prove something, you may use
    >>> ARM9, linux or whatsoever.
    >>>

    >> Isn't it scary enough that someone is designing an in-car computer
    >> based on some vague ideas and advice from a newsgroup, without adding
    >> windows on top?

    >
    > Not to worry. This is just another going to nowhere project which will
    > be fortunately abandoned in a week or two. Or unfortunately abandoned in
    > a year or two after spending several million of dollars. Nothing turns
    > out to be more expensive then the so-called "free" stuff.
    >


    Expensive stuff can turn out to be expensive too - paying a lot is no
    guarantee for success (though I agree that you're heading for disaster
    if you base your decisions solely on the initial cost-price of your
    tools). The expensive thing is a lack of knowledge, experience, and
    planning in a project - not the cost of the tools or OS.
     
    David Brown, Feb 25, 2008
    #17
  18. icegray

    Nils Guest

    icegray schrieb:

    > I checked DaVinci and Omap but they are not suitable for automotive
    > projects. There is only one DaVinci CPU at -40 +105.


    TI has a DaVinci based core for automotive use use as well. Just because
    it's not on their website does not mean that it does not exist :)

    Contact TI. They will guide you into the right direction.

    Nils
     
    Nils, Feb 26, 2008
    #18
  19. icegray

    icegray Guest

    On Feb 26, 12:27 am, David Brown
    <> wrote:
    > Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
    >
    > > David Brown wrote:
    > >> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

    >
    > >>>>>> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    > >>>>>> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    > >>>>>> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded
    > >>>>>> linux,
    > >>>>>> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

    >
    > >>>>> You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.

    >
    > >>>> This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
    > >>>> mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
    > >>>> Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.

    >
    > >>> If you need the automotive infortaiment project to be built on time
    > >>> and done for good, you need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE
    > >>> or Embedded XP. If your real goal is to prove something, you may use
    > >>> ARM9, linux or whatsoever.

    >
    > >> Isn't it scary enough that someone is designing an in-car computer
    > >> based on some vague ideas and advice from a newsgroup, without adding
    > >> windows on top?

    >
    > > Not to worry. This is just another going to nowhere project which will
    > > be fortunately abandoned in a week or two. Or unfortunately abandoned in
    > > a year or two after spending several million of dollars. Nothing turns
    > > out to be more expensive then the so-called "free" stuff.

    >
    > Expensive stuff can turn out to be expensive too - paying a lot is no
    > guarantee for success (though I agree that you're heading for disaster
    > if you base your decisions solely on the initial cost-price of your
    > tools).  The expensive thing is a lack of knowledge, experience, and
    > planning in a project - not the cost of the tools or OS.- Hide quoted text-
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    What is your idea David? Which cpu is ideal for this kind of project?
    What is the better sides of windows? Why windows is best choice? I
    think Vladimir can not explain.
     
    icegray, Feb 26, 2008
    #19
  20. icegray

    badal_akr Guest

    >On Feb 25, 8:32=A0pm, icegray <> wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
    >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
    >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
    >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
    >> I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
    >> need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
    >> ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
    >> and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
    >> share your experiences about this subject?
    >> Thanks in advance

    >
    >Check TI OMAP and TI DaVinci Processors.
    >They are excellent.
    >
    >Karthik Balaguru
    >

    You can check with the Xscale PXA270xxx or ST nomadik chips they ar
    superb and good processing power.
     
    badal_akr, Feb 26, 2008
    #20
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