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asus p5ld2-x m/board

Discussion in 'Overclocking' started by davej, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. davej

    davej Guest

    The manual says board has cpu multiplier and cpu lock free facility. In bios
    the cpu adjusts are all greyed out ? How can I change fsb? tia , dave
     
    davej, Nov 13, 2007
    #1
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  2. davej

    Paul Guest

    davej wrote:
    > The manual says board has cpu multiplier and cpu lock free facility. In bios
    > the cpu adjusts are all greyed out ? How can I change fsb? tia , dave
    >


    There are two mechanisms you can use for overclocking. Multiplier
    adjustment, and input clock increase. Clock times multiplier
    gives core clock rate: i.e. 200Mhz x 15 = 3GHz.

    In the manual, I don't see an option in the BIOS to change the
    CPU frequency. So there is no way to change the input clock,
    at the BIOS level.

    For multiplier, there are a couple situations.

    1) ES (engineering sample) processors, or perhaps some of the
    extreme edition processors, have unlocked multipliers. That
    allows a more arbitrary setting of the multiplier. Neither
    of those processor types is cheap, or readily available.
    Most people can only afford the more economical, locked
    processors. ES chips should really only be given to
    engineers who are developing computer products, and
    should not be in general circulation.

    2) On something like a regular P4 processor, the multiplier is
    locked.

    So, then, what is "lock free" ?

    The P4 processors have a couple multiplier values. They have
    a "safe" value of 14x, and then they have their "normal"
    multiplier.

    Let's take an example of a 3.0GHz P4 with FSB800. The FSB is
    quad pumped, and the real clock is 200MHz. If we divide
    3000 / 200 = 15x. The "normal" multiplier of that processor,
    is 15x. The normal input clock is 200MHz, it gets multiplied
    by 15, to give 3.0GHz core clock speed.

    Now, the Vcore regulator on the motherboard, can be designed
    for a couple power levels. If the motherboard maker wants to
    save a few bucks, they design for the lower level. Otherwise,
    they design for the higher level.

    Say a user plugs a high power P4 processor, into a motherboard
    that only supports low power processors. What they decided to
    do, is have the option of dropping the multiplier to 14x. On
    the 3GHz processor, this gives a slight power reduction.

    On a 3.6GHz processor, the multiplier difference would be a bit
    bigger. The multiplier would drop from 18x to 14x.

    There is a bit in the P4 processor, called "PRB", and it signals
    the processor type to the BIOS. Based on reading the PRB, a
    motherboard with a weak Vcore regulator, would select the
    "safe" multiplier, thus avoiding damage to the processor.
    That was the design intent of this feature, something along
    those lines:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/09/16/asus_bios_unlocks_p4_overclocking_potential/page3.html

    The feature was invented, to protect a motherboard with a
    weak Vcore regulator design. But the motherboard companies
    latched onto the two multiplier values, and pretended this
    was a feature they discovered through research in the lab.
    The idea is, by dropping the multiplier, an overclocker could
    raise the input clock, and end up with overclocked RAM. So
    the idea encourages extra memory bandwidth (but doesn't help
    if you are looking for heroic core clock speeds).

    When doesn't the feature work ?

    If you buy a 2.8GHz/FSB800 processor, the "normal" multiplier
    is 14x, the same as the "safe" value of 14x would be. In this
    case, no power is saved, and there really isn't an option. For
    that processor, the BIOS would be greyed out.

    If a processor doesn't support that kind of feature, then that
    would be another reason to grey out the BIOS. I think a PRB=1
    processor, is the one that supports the two multiplier values.
    Perhaps a 3.4GHz or a 3.6GHz processor, would be a good
    candidate for "Lock Free", as those are pretty hot processors,
    and might have PRB=1 set inside them.

    "Lock Free" does not help you achieve a higher core speed. It
    is intended to improve memory bandwidth, and must be used
    in conjunction with adjusting the input clock to the CPU,
    to higher values. Since, on your board, I don't even see a
    BIOS entry that allows the CPU clock to be adjusted, the
    "Lock Free" is pointless. A cruel joke if you will.

    What other ways can you overclock ?

    1) BSEL modding. If you were to adjust the BSEL code, to a
    higher value, then the clock generator may be tricked into
    giving out a higher clock. This is not a very practical
    option on older motherboards, as BSEL is a two bit code
    (two pins on the bottom of the processor), and not all
    code points might be supported by the clockgen
    chip. I believe it is possible that some of the more
    recent processors have a 3 bit BSEL, and perhaps more
    options (but I'd have to look that up and verify it).
    BSEL modding gives such large jumps in frequency, to be
    a pretty poor method of searching for a stable overclock.
    Some of the recent Core2 processors, have pretty large
    overclocking ranges, which is why for some of those, you
    can fool around with BSEL.

    2) Using an overclocking program in Windows. The "clockgen"
    program from www.cpuid.com is a popular example. But that
    program has support for very few pieces of hardware, as each
    case must be custom programmed. Thus, only certain motherboards
    are handled, and the author of that program doesn't have all
    day to sit around adding thousands of motherboards to the
    supported list. There is a picture of the control panel here.

    http://www.ixbt.com/short/2k6_soft/clockgen.png

    The clockgen web page is currently not working, so you can see
    what clock generator chips are supported, by looking at an
    archived copy of the web site.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20070406135941/http://www.cpuid.com/clockgen.php

    Bottom line ? If you want an overclocking motherboard,
    make sure it has the necessary BIOS settings first, before you
    buy it. Motherboards are divided into catagories, according to
    market and purpose. The cheapest ones are intended to be used in
    business machines (office computers), where overclocking is not
    an option. Thus, not one additional cent of expense is put into
    making them overclockable. If you buy one of those motherboards,
    then you might as well have bought yourself a Dell :-(

    If I missed something, and there really is a setting to change
    the input clock to the processor, then you'll be overclocking
    in no time. If, as the manual shows, there is no setting, then
    you're stuck.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Nov 13, 2007
    #2
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  3. davej

    davej Guest

    Thanks , Paul, I now know how I stand- I have e2180 -is bsel applicable?
    "Paul" <> wrote in message news:fhcshl$c3j$...
    > davej wrote:
    >> The manual says board has cpu multiplier and cpu lock free facility. In
    >> bios the cpu adjusts are all greyed out ? How can I change fsb? tia ,
    >> dave

    >
    > There are two mechanisms you can use for overclocking. Multiplier
    > adjustment, and input clock increase. Clock times multiplier
    > gives core clock rate: i.e. 200Mhz x 15 = 3GHz.
    >
    > In the manual, I don't see an option in the BIOS to change the
    > CPU frequency. So there is no way to change the input clock,
    > at the BIOS level.
    >
    > For multiplier, there are a couple situations.
    >
    > 1) ES (engineering sample) processors, or perhaps some of the
    > extreme edition processors, have unlocked multipliers. That
    > allows a more arbitrary setting of the multiplier. Neither
    > of those processor types is cheap, or readily available.
    > Most people can only afford the more economical, locked
    > processors. ES chips should really only be given to
    > engineers who are developing computer products, and
    > should not be in general circulation.
    >
    > 2) On something like a regular P4 processor, the multiplier is
    > locked.
    >
    > So, then, what is "lock free" ?
    >
    > The P4 processors have a couple multiplier values. They have
    > a "safe" value of 14x, and then they have their "normal"
    > multiplier.
    >
    > Let's take an example of a 3.0GHz P4 with FSB800. The FSB is
    > quad pumped, and the real clock is 200MHz. If we divide
    > 3000 / 200 = 15x. The "normal" multiplier of that processor,
    > is 15x. The normal input clock is 200MHz, it gets multiplied
    > by 15, to give 3.0GHz core clock speed.
    >
    > Now, the Vcore regulator on the motherboard, can be designed
    > for a couple power levels. If the motherboard maker wants to
    > save a few bucks, they design for the lower level. Otherwise,
    > they design for the higher level.
    >
    > Say a user plugs a high power P4 processor, into a motherboard
    > that only supports low power processors. What they decided to
    > do, is have the option of dropping the multiplier to 14x. On
    > the 3GHz processor, this gives a slight power reduction.
    >
    > On a 3.6GHz processor, the multiplier difference would be a bit
    > bigger. The multiplier would drop from 18x to 14x.
    >
    > There is a bit in the P4 processor, called "PRB", and it signals
    > the processor type to the BIOS. Based on reading the PRB, a
    > motherboard with a weak Vcore regulator, would select the
    > "safe" multiplier, thus avoiding damage to the processor.
    > That was the design intent of this feature, something along
    > those lines:
    >
    > http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/09/16/asus_bios_unlocks_p4_overclocking_potential/page3.html
    >
    > The feature was invented, to protect a motherboard with a
    > weak Vcore regulator design. But the motherboard companies
    > latched onto the two multiplier values, and pretended this
    > was a feature they discovered through research in the lab.
    > The idea is, by dropping the multiplier, an overclocker could
    > raise the input clock, and end up with overclocked RAM. So
    > the idea encourages extra memory bandwidth (but doesn't help
    > if you are looking for heroic core clock speeds).
    >
    > When doesn't the feature work ?
    >
    > If you buy a 2.8GHz/FSB800 processor, the "normal" multiplier
    > is 14x, the same as the "safe" value of 14x would be. In this
    > case, no power is saved, and there really isn't an option. For
    > that processor, the BIOS would be greyed out.
    >
    > If a processor doesn't support that kind of feature, then that
    > would be another reason to grey out the BIOS. I think a PRB=1
    > processor, is the one that supports the two multiplier values.
    > Perhaps a 3.4GHz or a 3.6GHz processor, would be a good
    > candidate for "Lock Free", as those are pretty hot processors,
    > and might have PRB=1 set inside them.
    >
    > "Lock Free" does not help you achieve a higher core speed. It
    > is intended to improve memory bandwidth, and must be used
    > in conjunction with adjusting the input clock to the CPU,
    > to higher values. Since, on your board, I don't even see a
    > BIOS entry that allows the CPU clock to be adjusted, the
    > "Lock Free" is pointless. A cruel joke if you will.
    >
    > What other ways can you overclock ?
    >
    > 1) BSEL modding. If you were to adjust the BSEL code, to a
    > higher value, then the clock generator may be tricked into
    > giving out a higher clock. This is not a very practical
    > option on older motherboards, as BSEL is a two bit code
    > (two pins on the bottom of the processor), and not all
    > code points might be supported by the clockgen
    > chip. I believe it is possible that some of the more
    > recent processors have a 3 bit BSEL, and perhaps more
    > options (but I'd have to look that up and verify it).
    > BSEL modding gives such large jumps in frequency, to be
    > a pretty poor method of searching for a stable overclock.
    > Some of the recent Core2 processors, have pretty large
    > overclocking ranges, which is why for some of those, you
    > can fool around with BSEL.
    >
    > 2) Using an overclocking program in Windows. The "clockgen"
    > program from www.cpuid.com is a popular example. But that
    > program has support for very few pieces of hardware, as each
    > case must be custom programmed. Thus, only certain motherboards
    > are handled, and the author of that program doesn't have all
    > day to sit around adding thousands of motherboards to the
    > supported list. There is a picture of the control panel here.
    >
    > http://www.ixbt.com/short/2k6_soft/clockgen.png
    >
    > The clockgen web page is currently not working, so you can see
    > what clock generator chips are supported, by looking at an
    > archived copy of the web site.
    >
    > http://web.archive.org/web/20070406135941/http://www.cpuid.com/clockgen.php
    >
    > Bottom line ? If you want an overclocking motherboard,
    > make sure it has the necessary BIOS settings first, before you
    > buy it. Motherboards are divided into catagories, according to
    > market and purpose. The cheapest ones are intended to be used in
    > business machines (office computers), where overclocking is not
    > an option. Thus, not one additional cent of expense is put into
    > making them overclockable. If you buy one of those motherboards,
    > then you might as well have bought yourself a Dell :-(
    >
    > If I missed something, and there really is a setting to change
    > the input clock to the processor, then you'll be overclocking
    > in no time. If, as the manual shows, there is no setting, then
    > you're stuck.
    >
    > Paul
     
    davej, Nov 14, 2007
    #3
  4. davej

    Paul Guest

    davej wrote:

    > Thanks , Paul, I now know how I stand- I have e2180 -is bsel applicable?


    This is a table from a 6000 series datasheet. They only define new code
    points, as they are needed, so you need to look at more than one datasheet,
    to get some idea as to how they're set up.

    BSEL[2:0] Frequency Table for BCLK[1:0]
    BSEL2 BSEL1 BSEL0 FSB Frequency
    L L L 266 MHz <--- Overclock via this entry
    L L H RESERVED
    L H H RESERVED
    L H L 200 MHz <--- Code used by your processor
    H H L RESERVED
    H H H RESERVED
    H L H RESERVED
    H L L 333 MHz

    E6xxx series datasheet (contains the above table). One bit change gives a
    33% overclock of both core and memory.

    http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/31327807.pdf

    E2xxx series datasheet shows the single entry for your processor, in Table 16.

    http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/31698103.pdf

    The clock generator chip also plays a part in this. The clock generator
    may not produce intelligent choices for all the BSEL values. To verify
    that, you'd want to look for the clock generator chip, and find a datasheet
    for it. Usually pictures on the Internet are not clear enough, for me to
    figure out what chip is being used.

    You may have to look around a bit, to find advice on how best to do a
    BSEL mod. I haven't done one.

    The socket is one place, and on the pins of the clock generator
    is a second point of access. Apparently, BSEL outputs on the processor,
    use CMOS rail to rail swing, between VTT (1.2V) and GND. In your case,
    you'd be grounding BSEL1, to make a logic 0 and cause clock = 266Mhz
    (FSB1066). The chipset would have to be FSB1066 capable, for this to be
    workable. I might be tempted to do this around the clock generator
    chip, as things may be easier to get at there.

    Grounding a pin, which is totem-pole and not open collector, is probably
    not the best thing for the driver inside the processor. Traditionally,
    CMOS outputs have current limited, meaning when grounded, the current
    reaches some finite value. But what Intel is using there, is anyone's guess.
    IOS is not specified in the "CMOS Signal Group DC Specifications", IOS
    being the short circuit current. With the older CMOS devices, you could
    short those indefinitely, as the current only rose to 10mA or so. But the
    tech inside the Intel processor, is many generations removed from my
    old recollections :)

    Try an overclocker site for more advice. I don't want to be responsible
    for damaging your processor. And use the pinout diagram, in the datasheet,
    to verify and double check the advice you're getting. (Remember to also
    check for mirror images and correct views, when looking at those diagrams!)
    A single connection from BSEL1 to GND should be enough for the job.
    Connecting contact H30 to L30, should connect BSEL1 to VSS (GND).

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134939

    Have fun,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Nov 14, 2007
    #4
  5. davej

    davej Guest

    THANKS so much for quick and informative reply. Dave.
    "Paul" <> wrote in message news:fhemd7$hs2$...
    > davej wrote:
    >
    >> Thanks , Paul, I now know how I stand- I have e2180 -is bsel applicable?

    >
    > This is a table from a 6000 series datasheet. They only define new code
    > points, as they are needed, so you need to look at more than one
    > datasheet,
    > to get some idea as to how they're set up.
    >
    > BSEL[2:0] Frequency Table for BCLK[1:0]
    > BSEL2 BSEL1 BSEL0 FSB Frequency
    > L L L 266 MHz <--- Overclock via this entry
    > L L H RESERVED
    > L H H RESERVED
    > L H L 200 MHz <--- Code used by your processor
    > H H L RESERVED
    > H H H RESERVED
    > H L H RESERVED
    > H L L 333 MHz
    >
    > E6xxx series datasheet (contains the above table). One bit change gives a
    > 33% overclock of both core and memory.
    >
    > http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/31327807.pdf
    >
    > E2xxx series datasheet shows the single entry for your processor, in Table
    > 16.
    >
    > http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/31698103.pdf
    >
    > The clock generator chip also plays a part in this. The clock generator
    > may not produce intelligent choices for all the BSEL values. To verify
    > that, you'd want to look for the clock generator chip, and find a
    > datasheet
    > for it. Usually pictures on the Internet are not clear enough, for me to
    > figure out what chip is being used.
    >
    > You may have to look around a bit, to find advice on how best to do a
    > BSEL mod. I haven't done one.
    >
    > The socket is one place, and on the pins of the clock generator
    > is a second point of access. Apparently, BSEL outputs on the processor,
    > use CMOS rail to rail swing, between VTT (1.2V) and GND. In your case,
    > you'd be grounding BSEL1, to make a logic 0 and cause clock = 266Mhz
    > (FSB1066). The chipset would have to be FSB1066 capable, for this to be
    > workable. I might be tempted to do this around the clock generator
    > chip, as things may be easier to get at there.
    >
    > Grounding a pin, which is totem-pole and not open collector, is probably
    > not the best thing for the driver inside the processor. Traditionally,
    > CMOS outputs have current limited, meaning when grounded, the current
    > reaches some finite value. But what Intel is using there, is anyone's
    > guess.
    > IOS is not specified in the "CMOS Signal Group DC Specifications", IOS
    > being the short circuit current. With the older CMOS devices, you could
    > short those indefinitely, as the current only rose to 10mA or so. But the
    > tech inside the Intel processor, is many generations removed from my
    > old recollections :)
    >
    > Try an overclocker site for more advice. I don't want to be responsible
    > for damaging your processor. And use the pinout diagram, in the datasheet,
    > to verify and double check the advice you're getting. (Remember to also
    > check for mirror images and correct views, when looking at those
    > diagrams!)
    > A single connection from BSEL1 to GND should be enough for the job.
    > Connecting contact H30 to L30, should connect BSEL1 to VSS (GND).
    >
    > http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134939
    >
    > Have fun,
    > Paul
     
    davej, Nov 14, 2007
    #5
  6. davej

    Paul Guest

    davej wrote:
    > THANKS so much for quick and informative reply. Dave.


    Don't forget to turn down the memory setting a bit, before
    you plug in your BSEL mod. If the processor clock is pushed
    from 200 to 266, that is a 33% overclock.

    You only have two settings on the board for memory speed,
    so you'll need to try the slowest speed. Try the DDR2-400
    setting, which with your 33% overclock, becomes DDR2-533.

    Set "Configure DRAM Timing By SPD" to [Disabled]. The manual
    timing options should appear. Set the first four of them
    to 5-5-5-15, or whatever the RAM is rated at.

    The whole idea of settings the timings, is so that, when
    the new overclock is applied, the memory conditions end
    up being the same as they were before the overclock.

    If you need more help with this, either post your current
    RAM specs (DDR2-533 5-5-5-15) or post a URL that leads to
    an advert for the memory.

    You can even turn the memory down, before you overclock the
    processor. You can verify the settings with CPUZ (cpuid.com),
    to make sure they're correct (i.e. read DDR2-400 5-5-5-15 before
    the processor is overclocked, and DDR2-533 5-5-5-15 after
    the overclocked processor is plugged in).

    As for testing, don't immediately boot into Windows.
    The first test to run is memtest86+ from memtest.org.
    That test boots from either a floppy or a CDROM.

    My second preferred test, is to try booting a Ubuntu or
    a Knoppix Linux LiveCD. Those don't need a hard drive to
    be present. You can even download Prime95 from mersenne.org
    once Knoppix or Ubuntu is running, and do further stability
    testing. You cannot corrupt a CD, which is why this test
    is safer than booting to Windows.

    Once you've done a decent amount of testing, then set your
    boot order back, to boot from Windows. The purpose of the
    testing, is to avoid registry or install corruption, if
    the new conditions for the processor are not stable.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Nov 14, 2007
    #6
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