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Celeron 1.3GHz, and other Q'a

Discussion in 'Intel' started by zxcvbob, Apr 15, 2004.

  1. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Guest

    Are all socket 370 Celeron 1.2G and 1.3G processors based on the Tualatin
    core? I'm looking for a not-too-expensive CPU and motherboard (micro-ATX
    or flex-ATX format) too build a very quiet, low wattage PC. Some of the
    ads I see say "coppermine" core.

    I think the Celeron M processors and boards are gonna take a while to hit
    the market and drop in price.

    Can anyone recommend a good small formfactor motherboard for this processor
    that has onboard audio, video, lan, and USB2? All the mobos I've looked at
    say the have USB but don't give the specifications.

    I assume all the AMD socket A processors are too hot-running for a project
    like this. From what I can tell, the mobile processors use just as much
    power as desktop processors unless you get an ultra-low-voltage processor
    and the mobo can supply the correct voltage.

    Best regards,
    Bob
     
    zxcvbob, Apr 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. zxcvbob

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:34:24 -0500, zxcvbob <>
    wrote:

    >Are all socket 370 Celeron 1.2G and 1.3G processors based on the Tualatin
    >core? I'm looking for a not-too-expensive CPU and motherboard (micro-ATX
    >or flex-ATX format) too build a very quiet, low wattage PC. Some of the
    >ads I see say "coppermine" core.
    >

    If it's a 1.2G or 1.3G, it's a Tualatin.

    >I think the Celeron M processors and boards are gonna take a while to hit
    >the market and drop in price.
    >
    >Can anyone recommend a good small formfactor motherboard for this processor
    >that has onboard audio, video, lan, and USB2? All the mobos I've looked at
    >say the have USB but don't give the specifications.
    >

    I could be wrong, but I think you're out of luck looking for USB2 to
    go with a Tualatin. AFAIK, no one is making Tualatin motherboards.
    You can find them, but you have to scrounge. If you need USB2 and
    low-wattage, you can either go with a PCI card for USB2 or mobile
    Pentium4-M, only a few watts more. The motherboard is inexpensive,
    but the CPU definitely isn't. Make sure you get mobile pentium 4-_M_,
    check out electrical characteristics at users.erols.com and make sure
    you get a m'board that will support a lower vcore.

    >I assume all the AMD socket A processors are too hot-running for a project
    >like this. From what I can tell, the mobile processors use just as much
    >power as desktop processors unless you get an ultra-low-voltage processor
    >and the mobo can supply the correct voltage.
    >

    I've cross posted your question and my response to
    comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips so one of the local amdroids can tell
    both of us how clueless we are for even thinking of buying an Intel
    processor. ;-).

    RM
     
    Robert Myers, Apr 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. zxcvbob

    Tony Hill Guest

    On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:16:07 -0400, Robert Myers <>
    wrote:
    >>I assume all the AMD socket A processors are too hot-running for a project
    >>like this. From what I can tell, the mobile processors use just as much
    >>power as desktop processors unless you get an ultra-low-voltage processor
    >>and the mobo can supply the correct voltage.
    >>

    >I've cross posted your question and my response to
    >comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips so one of the local amdroids can tell
    >both of us how clueless we are for even thinking of buying an Intel
    >processor. ;-).


    Yup, totally clueless! :>

    Actually the assumption above is not entirely correct. Not only are
    there some rather low powered AMD AthlonXP chips (they have pretty
    similar power consumption to the Pentium-M and lower power consumption
    than the P4-M), but also mobile chips do NOT use the same amount of
    power as desktop chips, even at the same voltage.

    A lot of power requirements can be tuned during the manufacturing
    process. For high-end desktop chips the fabs are usually tuned for
    high clock speeds. For low-end/low cost chips they are tuned for high
    yields. For mobile chips they are tuned for low power.

    The end result is that an AthlonXP 1700+ and an AthlonXP-M 1700+ could
    have quite different power consumption figures, even if they are run
    at the same voltage and at least superficially produced on the same
    fab (ie both "Thoroughbred" cores made on a 130nm process). In fact,
    AMD actually sells *THREE* AthlonXP-M 2000+ processors, all with
    different power consumption figures. That's in addition to the old
    AthlonXP (desktop) 2000+ chips that are no longer being sold.

    Intel does pretty much the same thing with their P4 chips. The
    desktop Pentium4, the "Mobile Pentium 4" and the "Mobile Pentium 4-M"
    are all produced from the same basic die on superficially the same
    process, but that process is tuned for different parameters and the
    resulting power consumption figures for those chips is different. For
    example, a desktop P4 2.4GHz has a Thermal Design Power (TDP) ranging
    from 57.1W to 66.2W, depending on the model. The Mobile P4 2.4GHz
    had a TDP of 59.8W, while the Mobile P4-M 2.4GHz has a TDP of either
    30W or 35W.


    For AMD's chips, I seem to recall that they defined a TDP of 60W for
    all of their AthlonXP-M "Desktop Replacement" chips, while they
    defined a TDP of 45W for all of their AthlonXP-M "Mainstream" chips
    and 25W for their AthlonXP-M "Low power" chips. The problem with AMD
    chips is that their documentation is absolutely abysmal when it comes
    to mobile chips. I have no idea if it's even possible to tell a "Low
    Power" chip from a "Desktop Replacement" chip (aside from the fact
    that the fastest "Low Power" chip is a 2100+ model while the "Desktop
    Replacement" parts go up to 2800+).

    The main advantage to the AMD chips is two fold. First is that they
    are all socket A chips, so you can drop them in any old Socket A
    motherboard. Many of the mobile Intel chips come in all sorts of
    custom sockets designed specifically for laptops. The second
    advantage to AMD's line is that they are widely available. You'll
    have a HELL of a time finding any mobile Intel chips, but mobile AMD
    chips are sold from most of the bigger on-line vendors these days.
    I'm fairly certain that the chips being sold are "Mainstream"
    AthlonXP-M chips, but as mentioned above, it's damn near impossible to
    tell them apart.


    In the end though, when you get right down to it, the original idea
    was probably the best. A "Tualatin" Celeron chip combined with a PCI
    USB2 card should be the ticket. They consume about 30W of power,
    should be fairly cheap and not all that difficult to find. You might
    actually be able to find a Socket 370 board from VIA with USB2 built
    in. Since VIA is still producing Socket 370 processors they are also
    producing current Socket 370 motherboards. However given that a PCI
    USB2 card should only cost you $10 or so, it's probably worth buying
    one and sticking it in an Intel-based motherboard rather than
    bothering with VIA chipsets and the odd-ball problems that all too
    often accompanies said chipsets.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
     
    Tony Hill, Apr 16, 2004
    #3
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