Changing Motherboard to ASUS Z68

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Allan, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. Allan

    Allan Guest

    I currently have the following:-

    Asus P5B Deluxe 965 Socket 775 Motherboard
    Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz 1066FSB LGA775 4MB cache Retail inc fan
    Asus EN GT240 Silent 1024MB DDR
    Antec Sonata II Ultra Quiet Midi Tower
    Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
    Geil Value DDR2 4.0GB PC6400 Dual Channel memory kit (4 x 1GB)800MHz
    (5-5-5-15)
    2 x HDD 1 x Seagate 250GB; 1 x Seagate 500GB Barracuda SATA II 300 7200rpm
    16MB cache Hard Disk Drive
    Plus a Lite-On DVD/RW IDE

    I have been really happy with the above, but now feel it is the time to
    upgrade.

    I was thinking of changing the Motherboard, Memory, and CPU ) and if no IDE
    connection on the motherboard the DVD/RW

    This is what I have in mind and would probably purchase from CCL
    (http://www.cclonline.com/category/400/PC-Components/)

    Asus P8Z68-V LX Socket 1155 Motherboard 90-MIBH80-G0EAY0KZ
    Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz Quad Core Processor
    Kingston 4x 4GB DDR3 1066MHz Non-ECC 240pin DIMM Memory Module
    KVR1066D3N7/4G

    I am assuming I can still use the existing Case, Graphics Card, HDDs and
    Operating System (Win 7 - 64 bit NOT OEM)

    If any one has the time could they please look at what I intend to do and
    advise me if there is anything that is glowingly wrong (especially the RAM).
    I would appreciate any comments and advice please.

    TIA
     
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  2. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Allan wrote:
    > I currently have the following:-
    >
    > Asus P5B Deluxe 965 Socket 775 Motherboard
    > Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz 1066FSB LGA775 4MB cache Retail inc fan
    > Asus EN GT240 Silent 1024MB DDR
    > Antec Sonata II Ultra Quiet Midi Tower
    > Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
    > Geil Value DDR2 4.0GB PC6400 Dual Channel memory kit (4 x 1GB)800MHz
    > (5-5-5-15)
    > 2 x HDD 1 x Seagate 250GB; 1 x Seagate 500GB Barracuda SATA II 300
    > 7200rpm 16MB cache Hard Disk Drive
    > Plus a Lite-On DVD/RW IDE
    >
    > I have been really happy with the above, but now feel it is the time to
    > upgrade.
    >
    > I was thinking of changing the Motherboard, Memory, and CPU ) and if no
    > IDE connection on the motherboard the DVD/RW
    >
    > This is what I have in mind and would probably purchase from CCL
    > (http://www.cclonline.com/category/400/PC-Components/)
    >
    > Asus P8Z68-V LX Socket 1155 Motherboard 90-MIBH80-G0EAY0KZ
    > Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz Quad Core Processor
    > Kingston 4x 4GB DDR3 1066MHz Non-ECC 240pin DIMM Memory Module
    > KVR1066D3N7/4G
    >
    > I am assuming I can still use the existing Case, Graphics Card, HDDs and
    > Operating System (Win 7 - 64 bit NOT OEM)
    >
    > If any one has the time could they please look at what I intend to do
    > and advise me if there is anything that is glowingly wrong (especially
    > the RAM).
    > I would appreciate any comments and advice please.
    >
    > TIA


    Generally speaking, it's pretty hard to go completely wrong when
    picking components for a new system. As long as you bought the right
    kind of RAM to fit in it, and checked the CPU compatibility chart on
    the manufacturer site, you should be OK. Judging by the table here,
    it's possible 0401 BIOS was the one released with the board (i.e.
    good odds 2600K is supported "out of the box", without a BIOS update).

    http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z68V_LX/#CPUS

    So about all I can do, is a bit of nit-picking.

    ATX full sized motherboards are 12"x9.6" and there is room for 9 or so
    mounting holes. The standoffs underneath these holes, help hold the
    motherboard while you're changing out components.

    Your motherboard selection is 9.0" wide, and a bit narrow. As near as I
    can determine, it's missing the three right-most holes. This is only an
    issue while inserting and removing RAM. The motherboard will flex a little
    bit while that is going on. Downward flexure can be stopped, by propping
    a non-conductive object underneath the edge of the motherboard (like a
    pink eraser perhaps). Pulling forces though, those are best stopped by a
    real standoff and screw.

    The motherboard has 8111E NIC. Some brands of NICs are slightly better
    than others. There is at least one RealTek NIC chip, where it takes
    a powerful processor to get the Ethernet link to run at full rate. That
    would be a concern if you had a NAS and stored most of your files on
    a file server. Since you've got a damn fine processor, perhaps this isn't
    a big issue. At the very least, try to find some transfer rate benchmarks
    for the 8111E to see what kind of numbers it gives. I was a bit pissed
    when I bought a GbE NIC card and the RealTek chip couldn't run flat out.
    But it's a different part number than yours.

    On the RAM, I would start by questioning what you'll be doing with 16GB.
    First, I was impressed by how cheap RAM has become. So from that perspective,
    not a big deal. Also, your memory modules don't have heat spreaders
    and this is actually a desirable properly when installing four sticks.
    If you install four sticks, and the memory slots are close together,
    sticks without spreaders allow a bit more room for air circulation. When
    running at 1.5V, the modules won't be getting very hot, and don't
    really need spreaders. And if you have fancy spreaders, they can almost
    be touching one another, when four are installed. Spreaders can almost
    insulate the modules from the surrounding air.

    A price check on your RAM (Newegg) gives a figure of $21 per 4GB module.
    And four would be $84. Thats extremely good for a 16GB system. And without
    the heat spreaders to get in the way, they'll likely have a long life
    (and I happen to like Kingston, and have had good luck with them in my
    last two builds).

    Now, if you were to settle for a 2x4GB kit, then you might end up with
    heat spreaders. If you're only using two sticks, chances are the modules
    will have plenty of room around them. For example, this kit (selected by
    "Most Reviews"), is $47, versus say around $42 for two of the sticks you
    chose.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

    Now, let's compare the specs. Your Kingston are DDR3-1066 CAS7.
    The GSkill I selected are DDR3-1600 CAS9. To compare latency of
    the two products, we scale them

    CAS7 * 1600/1066 = "CAS 10.5"

    So in terms of latency, the $47 kit is better by about 1.5 CAS points.
    And the transfer rate is better by 1600/1066 in terms of the gigabytes
    per second you get from it. (This is assuming, with the integrated
    memory controller in the 2600K, that there are no bottlenecks to using
    extravagantly fast RAM.)

    My experience with real world, indicates the RAM on these things probably
    doesn't make that much difference. So it's really a matter of whether
    you think there is a reason to have 16GB. That's enough memory to run
    a server, have a database or Exchange running on it and so on.

    I don't see a point going much faster than that. You can find enthusiast
    RAM that will go much fast (and scaling the CAS, have lower effective
    latency.

    So if we dumped your $84 16GB selection, got a $47 8GB kit, that would
    leave $37 you could put into a slightly different motherboard selection.

    But these comments are largely a "salt to taste" kinda thing.

    The main thing is, for anything you buy, to check the reviews. Newegg
    and Amazon have customer reviews. And Asus has vip.asus.com forum, where you can
    look for additional gripes about your potential purchase.

    http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=P8Z68-V LX&SLanguage=en-us

    Your video card is about 9" long, and will pretty well line up with the
    right edge of your new 9" wide motherboard. The chipset heatsink is
    low profile, so shouldn't get in the way.

    http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-131-781-Z03?$S640W$

    Your existing power supply shouldn't need to be changed. Even if you had
    a 2x2 ATX12V, it'll still plug into the 2x4 hole on the motherboard. The
    2x4 is in relatively close proximity to the CPU socket area, and that's
    only a concern if you have a monster third-party cooler. If the ATX 12V power
    was moved elsewhere (like on some of my motherboards), then the issue is,
    it's hard to release the locking tab to be able to pull the cable when
    you want to. The power your processor draws, should not require more than
    the 2x2 connector. Similarly, on the 24 pin power connector, if your
    supply has a 20 pin connector, you can still use it. Since you're using
    a single video card, and it's not a monstrosity, there probably won't be
    an issue with motherboard 12V current draw. (Slots run off 12V1, CPU runs
    off 12V2.)

    (How to use a 20 pin, on a 24 pin motherboard)

    http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/20in24.jpg

    Using a 20 pin is possible, because the power draw on your video card is
    relatively low.

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010_3.html#sect0

    Using this table,

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gpu-power-consumption-2010/crysis_plines.png

    the GT240 draws 3.6 amps from the 12V in the PCI Express slot. The 20 pin ATX
    connector is rated for 6 amps, while the 24 pin with the two yellow wires is
    capable of 12 amps. With only one of those video cards, there shouldn't be a
    problem. Video card 3.6 amps plus 0.5 amps for motherboard fan headers, is
    around 4.1 amps. So you can use an older power supply with 20 pinner on it if
    you want.

    Paul
     
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  3. Allan

    Allan Guest

    "Paul" <> wrote in message
    news:jg0hdn$r4h$...
    > Allan wrote:
    >> I currently have the following:-
    >>
    >> Asus P5B Deluxe 965 Socket 775 Motherboard
    >> Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz 1066FSB LGA775 4MB cache Retail inc
    >> fan
    >> Asus EN GT240 Silent 1024MB DDR
    >> Antec Sonata II Ultra Quiet Midi Tower
    >> Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
    >> Geil Value DDR2 4.0GB PC6400 Dual Channel memory kit (4 x 1GB)800MHz
    >> (5-5-5-15)
    >> 2 x HDD 1 x Seagate 250GB; 1 x Seagate 500GB Barracuda SATA II 300
    >> 7200rpm 16MB cache Hard Disk Drive
    >> Plus a Lite-On DVD/RW IDE
    >>
    >> I have been really happy with the above, but now feel it is the time to
    >> upgrade.
    >>
    >> I was thinking of changing the Motherboard, Memory, and CPU ) and if no
    >> IDE connection on the motherboard the DVD/RW
    >>
    >> This is what I have in mind and would probably purchase from CCL
    >> (http://www.cclonline.com/category/400/PC-Components/)
    >>
    >> Asus P8Z68-V LX Socket 1155 Motherboard 90-MIBH80-G0EAY0KZ
    >> Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz Quad Core Processor
    >> Kingston 4x 4GB DDR3 1066MHz Non-ECC 240pin DIMM Memory Module
    >> KVR1066D3N7/4G
    >>
    >> I am assuming I can still use the existing Case, Graphics Card, HDDs and
    >> Operating System (Win 7 - 64 bit NOT OEM)
    >>
    >> If any one has the time could they please look at what I intend to do and
    >> advise me if there is anything that is glowingly wrong (especially the
    >> RAM).
    >> I would appreciate any comments and advice please.
    >>
    >> TIA

    >
    > Generally speaking, it's pretty hard to go completely wrong when
    > picking components for a new system. As long as you bought the right
    > kind of RAM to fit in it, and checked the CPU compatibility chart on
    > the manufacturer site, you should be OK. Judging by the table here,
    > it's possible 0401 BIOS was the one released with the board (i.e.
    > good odds 2600K is supported "out of the box", without a BIOS update).
    >
    > http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z68V_LX/#CPUS
    >
    > So about all I can do, is a bit of nit-picking.
    >
    > ATX full sized motherboards are 12"x9.6" and there is room for 9 or so
    > mounting holes. The standoffs underneath these holes, help hold the
    > motherboard while you're changing out components.
    >
    > Your motherboard selection is 9.0" wide, and a bit narrow. As near as I
    > can determine, it's missing the three right-most holes. This is only an
    > issue while inserting and removing RAM. The motherboard will flex a little
    > bit while that is going on. Downward flexure can be stopped, by propping
    > a non-conductive object underneath the edge of the motherboard (like a
    > pink eraser perhaps). Pulling forces though, those are best stopped by a
    > real standoff and screw.
    >
    > The motherboard has 8111E NIC. Some brands of NICs are slightly better
    > than others. There is at least one RealTek NIC chip, where it takes
    > a powerful processor to get the Ethernet link to run at full rate. That
    > would be a concern if you had a NAS and stored most of your files on
    > a file server. Since you've got a damn fine processor, perhaps this isn't
    > a big issue. At the very least, try to find some transfer rate benchmarks
    > for the 8111E to see what kind of numbers it gives. I was a bit pissed
    > when I bought a GbE NIC card and the RealTek chip couldn't run flat out.
    > But it's a different part number than yours.
    >
    > On the RAM, I would start by questioning what you'll be doing with 16GB.
    > First, I was impressed by how cheap RAM has become. So from that
    > perspective,
    > not a big deal. Also, your memory modules don't have heat spreaders
    > and this is actually a desirable properly when installing four sticks.
    > If you install four sticks, and the memory slots are close together,
    > sticks without spreaders allow a bit more room for air circulation. When
    > running at 1.5V, the modules won't be getting very hot, and don't
    > really need spreaders. And if you have fancy spreaders, they can almost
    > be touching one another, when four are installed. Spreaders can almost
    > insulate the modules from the surrounding air.
    >
    > A price check on your RAM (Newegg) gives a figure of $21 per 4GB module.
    > And four would be $84. Thats extremely good for a 16GB system. And without
    > the heat spreaders to get in the way, they'll likely have a long life
    > (and I happen to like Kingston, and have had good luck with them in my
    > last two builds).
    >
    > Now, if you were to settle for a 2x4GB kit, then you might end up with
    > heat spreaders. If you're only using two sticks, chances are the modules
    > will have plenty of room around them. For example, this kit (selected by
    > "Most Reviews"), is $47, versus say around $42 for two of the sticks you
    > chose.
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314
    >
    > Now, let's compare the specs. Your Kingston are DDR3-1066 CAS7.
    > The GSkill I selected are DDR3-1600 CAS9. To compare latency of
    > the two products, we scale them
    >
    > CAS7 * 1600/1066 = "CAS 10.5"
    >
    > So in terms of latency, the $47 kit is better by about 1.5 CAS points.
    > And the transfer rate is better by 1600/1066 in terms of the gigabytes
    > per second you get from it. (This is assuming, with the integrated
    > memory controller in the 2600K, that there are no bottlenecks to using
    > extravagantly fast RAM.)
    >
    > My experience with real world, indicates the RAM on these things probably
    > doesn't make that much difference. So it's really a matter of whether
    > you think there is a reason to have 16GB. That's enough memory to run
    > a server, have a database or Exchange running on it and so on.
    >
    > I don't see a point going much faster than that. You can find enthusiast
    > RAM that will go much fast (and scaling the CAS, have lower effective
    > latency.
    >
    > So if we dumped your $84 16GB selection, got a $47 8GB kit, that would
    > leave $37 you could put into a slightly different motherboard selection.
    >
    > But these comments are largely a "salt to taste" kinda thing.
    >
    > The main thing is, for anything you buy, to check the reviews. Newegg
    > and Amazon have customer reviews. And Asus has vip.asus.com forum, where
    > you can
    > look for additional gripes about your potential purchase.
    >
    > http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=P8Z68-V LX&SLanguage=en-us
    >
    > Your video card is about 9" long, and will pretty well line up with the
    > right edge of your new 9" wide motherboard. The chipset heatsink is
    > low profile, so shouldn't get in the way.
    >
    > http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-131-781-Z03?$S640W$
    >
    > Your existing power supply shouldn't need to be changed. Even if you had
    > a 2x2 ATX12V, it'll still plug into the 2x4 hole on the motherboard. The
    > 2x4 is in relatively close proximity to the CPU socket area, and that's
    > only a concern if you have a monster third-party cooler. If the ATX 12V
    > power
    > was moved elsewhere (like on some of my motherboards), then the issue is,
    > it's hard to release the locking tab to be able to pull the cable when
    > you want to. The power your processor draws, should not require more than
    > the 2x2 connector. Similarly, on the 24 pin power connector, if your
    > supply has a 20 pin connector, you can still use it. Since you're using
    > a single video card, and it's not a monstrosity, there probably won't be
    > an issue with motherboard 12V current draw. (Slots run off 12V1, CPU runs
    > off 12V2.)
    >
    > (How to use a 20 pin, on a 24 pin motherboard)
    >
    > http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/20in24.jpg
    >
    > Using a 20 pin is possible, because the power draw on your video card is
    > relatively low.
    >
    > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010_3.html#sect0
    >
    > Using this table,
    >
    > http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gpu-power-consumption-2010/crysis_plines.png
    >
    > the GT240 draws 3.6 amps from the 12V in the PCI Express slot. The 20 pin
    > ATX
    > connector is rated for 6 amps, while the 24 pin with the two yellow wires
    > is
    > capable of 12 amps. With only one of those video cards, there shouldn't be
    > a
    > problem. Video card 3.6 amps plus 0.5 amps for motherboard fan headers, is
    > around 4.1 amps. So you can use an older power supply with 20 pinner on it
    > if
    > you want.
    >
    > Paul



    Paul

    I really do appreciate your TIME and KNOWLEDGE giving this comprehensive
    reply.
    Most of the heavy work I will be doing on this PC will be converting MPEG
    files to .AVI (or similar); the reason I went for 4 x 4GB of RAM was a)
    mainly because it was so cheap and b) I thought it would help the PC run
    smoother during conversions to .AVI

    If you feel 2 x 4GB should be adequate I am more than willing to take your
    advice and would be grateful if you could recommend what, make model of RAM
    you would use (Heat spreaders?).

    You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as you
    say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you which
    motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range

    Can I once again THANK YOU for your comments as I really do appreciate your
    views

    Many many thanks


    Allan
     
  4. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Allan wrote:
    >

    <<some snips>>
    >
    > You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as
    > you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you
    > which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range
    >
    > Allan


    I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to offer.

    Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best Reviews.
    In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to be
    selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking for
    that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.

    What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is getting
    motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
    (While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the product
    isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're ripping
    the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay away
    from the thing.

    In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not mature.
    On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle down.
    After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by then,
    they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards (workstation
    class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
    should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most popular
    boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell well,
    you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
    RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
    (It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
    design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
    just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
    some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
    not going to run into problems like that.)

    When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad luck",
    is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at the
    top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
    may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
    have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
    matches their rating.

    You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
    not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
    Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
    of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
    to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
    have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
    and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
    the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
    an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
    show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
    fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
    random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)

    HTH,
    Paul
     
  5. Allan

    Allan Guest

    "Paul" <> wrote in message
    news:jg2to3$ljt$...
    > Allan wrote:
    >>

    > <<some snips>>
    >>
    >> You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as
    >> you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you
    >> which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range
    >>
    >> Allan

    >
    > I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
    > offer.
    >
    > Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
    > Reviews.
    > In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to be
    > selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking for
    > that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.
    >
    > What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
    > getting
    > motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
    > (While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the
    > product
    > isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're
    > ripping
    > the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay away
    > from the thing.
    >
    > In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
    > mature.
    > On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle down.
    > After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
    > then,
    > they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
    > (workstation
    > class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
    > should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most popular
    > boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell
    > well,
    > you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
    > RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
    > (It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
    > design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
    > just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
    > some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
    > not going to run into problems like that.)
    >
    > When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad
    > luck",
    > is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at the
    > top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
    > may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
    > have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
    > matches their rating.
    >
    > You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
    > not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
    > Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
    > of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
    > to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
    > have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
    > and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
    > the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
    > an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
    > show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
    > fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
    > random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)
    >
    > HTH,
    > Paul


    Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and if it
    is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you can then
    PLEASE give me your views

    Once again thanks
     
  6. Allan

    Allan Guest

    "Allan" <nospam> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Paul" <> wrote in message
    > news:jg2to3$ljt$...
    >> Allan wrote:
    >>>

    >> <<some snips>>
    >>>
    >>> You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard, as
    >>> you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask you
    >>> which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range
    >>>
    >>> Allan

    >>
    >> I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
    >> offer.
    >>
    >> Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
    >> Reviews.
    >> In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to
    >> be
    >> selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking for
    >> that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.
    >>
    >> What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
    >> getting
    >> motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
    >> (While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the
    >> product
    >> isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're
    >> ripping
    >> the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay away
    >> from the thing.
    >>
    >> In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
    >> mature.
    >> On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle down.
    >> After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
    >> then,
    >> they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
    >> (workstation
    >> class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
    >> should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most
    >> popular
    >> boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell
    >> well,
    >> you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
    >> RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
    >> (It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
    >> design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
    >> just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
    >> some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
    >> not going to run into problems like that.)
    >>
    >> When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad
    >> luck",
    >> is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at
    >> the
    >> top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
    >> may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
    >> have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
    >> matches their rating.
    >>
    >> You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
    >> not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
    >> Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
    >> of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
    >> to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
    >> have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
    >> and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
    >> the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
    >> an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
    >> show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
    >> fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
    >> random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)
    >>
    >> HTH,
    >> Paul

    >
    > Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and if it
    > is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you can then
    > PLEASE give me your views
    >
    > Once again thanks



    Paul

    I went for the following:-

    Asus P8Z68-V LE Socket 1155 Motherboard
    CORE I7-2600K 3.40GHZ unlocked plus Intel Fan
    Corsair Vengeance Performance Memory 2 x 4GB
    LiteOn iHAS122 22X DVD-RW/RAM Sata
    ASUS EN GT240 1GB Graphics DDR3 (already had)
    When it arrived, I started to scratch my head and thought this was way above
    my head and I am totally out of my depth. Any case I battled on and to my
    surprise I managed to get the PC up and running (first attempt) and
    installed Windows 7 Home Premium and all my other programs.

    I have three questions to ask you please

    1 The new motherboard also has a 8 pin atx socket ................ my
    previous Asus MB ony had four pin connection.
    Unfortunately the Antec Case I had only had a 4 and a 6 pin connection. I
    opted for the 4 pin connection as it plugged into the first part on the
    motherboard ............is that correct or should I use the 6 pin or should
    I do something else??????

    2 I had a little problem with the fan, it wouldn't connect easily ......I
    think I have now managed it ok; however when converting mpg files to avi the
    temperature fluctuates between about 52C and 60C does that sound about right
    (room temp is about 21C) ? Motherboard constant all the time at about 26C.
    When idling the CPU is about 32C. I have the latest BIOS and also use the
    ASUS A1 Suite to take readings

    3 When using the Asus A1 suite I used the TurboV EVO auto turning ........it
    said it increased it by 30%; however whilst doing a MPG to AVI conversion I
    had a Heat warning from the A1 Suite saying it was 72C .................. It
    then hovered around 78C (no higher that 80C) is this too hot to run ? Do you
    think I have the fan fitted correct?

    ps also ran prime95 but had to turn it off after about 5 minutes as it went
    well above 80C

    Hope that makes sense.

    TIA
     
  7. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Allan wrote:
    >
    > "Allan" <nospam> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> "Paul" <> wrote in message
    >> news:jg2to3$ljt$...
    >>> Allan wrote:
    >>>>
    >>> <<some snips>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular
    >>>> motherboard, as you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money
    >>>> spare, may I ask you which motherboard you would recommend within
    >>>> the ASUS range
    >>>>
    >>>> Allan
    >>>
    >>> I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
    >>> offer.
    >>>
    >>> Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
    >>> Reviews.
    >>> In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely
    >>> to be
    >>> selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking
    >>> for
    >>> that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.
    >>>
    >>> What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
    >>> getting
    >>> motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
    >>> (While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be
    >>> the product
    >>> isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting
    >>> they're ripping
    >>> the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay
    >>> away
    >>> from the thing.
    >>>
    >>> In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
    >>> mature.
    >>> On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle
    >>> down.
    >>> After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
    >>> then,
    >>> they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
    >>> (workstation
    >>> class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
    >>> should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most
    >>> popular
    >>> boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't
    >>> sell well,
    >>> you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
    >>> RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
    >>> (It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
    >>> design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
    >>> just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off. So
    >>> some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
    >>> not going to run into problems like that.)
    >>>
    >>> When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers
    >>> "bad luck",
    >>> is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers
    >>> at the
    >>> top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
    >>> may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
    >>> have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
    >>> matches their rating.
    >>>
    >>> You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
    >>> not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old choice.
    >>> Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
    >>> of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
    >>> to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
    >>> have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
    >>> and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
    >>> the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
    >>> an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
    >>> show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
    >>> fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
    >>> random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)
    >>>
    >>> HTH,
    >>> Paul

    >>
    >> Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and
    >> if it is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you
    >> can then PLEASE give me your views
    >>
    >> Once again thanks

    >
    >
    > Paul
    >
    > I went for the following:-
    >
    > Asus P8Z68-V LE Socket 1155 Motherboard
    > CORE I7-2600K 3.40GHZ unlocked plus Intel Fan
    > Corsair Vengeance Performance Memory 2 x 4GB
    > LiteOn iHAS122 22X DVD-RW/RAM Sata
    > ASUS EN GT240 1GB Graphics DDR3 (already had)
    > When it arrived, I started to scratch my head and thought this was way
    > above my head and I am totally out of my depth. Any case I battled on
    > and to my surprise I managed to get the PC up and running (first
    > attempt) and installed Windows 7 Home Premium and all my other programs.
    >
    > I have three questions to ask you please
    >
    > 1 The new motherboard also has a 8 pin atx socket ................ my
    > previous Asus MB ony had four pin connection.
    > Unfortunately the Antec Case I had only had a 4 and a 6 pin connection.
    > I opted for the 4 pin connection as it plugged into the first part on
    > the motherboard ............is that correct or should I use the 6 pin
    > or should I do something else??????
    >
    > 2 I had a little problem with the fan, it wouldn't connect easily
    > ......I think I have now managed it ok; however when converting mpg
    > files to avi the temperature fluctuates between about 52C and 60C does
    > that sound about right (room temp is about 21C) ? Motherboard constant
    > all the time at about 26C. When idling the CPU is about 32C. I have the
    > latest BIOS and also use the ASUS A1 Suite to take readings
    >
    > 3 When using the Asus A1 suite I used the TurboV EVO auto turning
    > ........it said it increased it by 30%; however whilst doing a MPG to
    > AVI conversion I had a Heat warning from the A1 Suite saying it was 72C
    > .................. It then hovered around 78C (no higher that 80C) is
    > this too hot to run ? Do you think I have the fan fitted correct?
    >
    > ps also ran prime95 but had to turn it off after about 5 minutes as it
    > went well above 80C
    >
    > Hope that makes sense.
    >
    > TIA


    The ATX12V 2x2 connector has two yellow wires and two black wires. It's
    meant to carry the power the processor uses. The rail is called 12V2
    (you check the 12V2 entry on the power supply label, to see if it
    can provide the needed current for the processor).

    There is probably more than 144W of capability by using a 2x2 connector.
    Your 2600K is 95W TDP. So the 2x2 connector with the two yellow wires
    is enough to make it work. You don't need a power supply with a 2x4 connector.
    The current rises when you overclock, but you've still got a bit of headroom.

    When a motherboard comes with a 2x4 ATX12V connector, the spare two holes
    can be covered by a sticker. That helps point you to the correct
    orientation for the connector. The latch on the connector, should match
    up with the latch on the motherboard end. The shape of the nylon shell
    on each of the pins, helps ensure correct orientation as well.

    http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/4pinin8.jpg

    *******

    For typical temperatures, try reading the Feedback section
    of the Newegg entry for 2600K.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070

    "Cons: Not really a con, but not all chips are created equally in terms
    of overclocking. I have to use a pretty high voltage in order to
    achieve a *stable* 4.5 ghz (1.4v).

    Other Thoughts: You'll want at minimum an after market heatsink fan if
    you plan on overclocking this CPU to any extent. It may
    have just been my particular chip or a thermal sensor,
    but I couldn't overclock with the stock heatsink fan hardly
    at all without hitting some uncomfortable temperatures (I'm
    talking >75 C after a couple minutes of prime95, well before
    even hitting the thermal saturation point!)."

    Various posters in the Feedback section, describe their cooling solutions,
    but I don't know if I'd go as far as they did.

    *******

    I notice after market heatsinks are a lot more expensive now. This is an
    example of the massive heatsinks you can get. This one has the heatpipes
    making contact with the processor, which is not my favorite config. I'd
    prefer a base plate with the pipes mounted in it, to spread the heat
    into the pipes. At least the reviews didn't complain about installing
    this thing. At one time, the original Tower was a bear to install, and
    hard to get at the fasteners with the heatsink in the way. For things
    this large, you have to inspect the inside of your computer case, for
    clearance. For example, if your computer case wasn't very wide, you
    might not be able to get the side panel back on :)

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154011

    *******

    The processor is designed to protect itself, and should not run
    so hot as to endanger lifespan. It'll throttle, meaning you
    lose some performance, if it gets too hot. Which is why, if you're
    going to be cranking it, it would pay to improve the cooling a bit.

    You can continue to experiment with the retail cooler, perhaps
    re-applying paste before reinstalling it.

    On my current computer, I have an aftermarket. While my backup
    computer has a similar processor, but uses the provided Intel fan.
    And they really aren't that much different, in usage. But since
    you're getting closer to the limit, you might want to work on
    your cooling a bit. Neither of my machines runs that hot.

    You can use RMClock to check for throttling, as long as the
    program knows about your processor. So this program could
    give you some hints. You can experiment with Speedfan for
    fan speed control, like they did, and reduce the cooling
    on the processor until you see throttling occur. That will tell
    you what kind of headroom you have. If you let it get hot
    enough (about 20C over throttle point), the computer will switch
    off (so don't have any important files open at the time).

    (Demo)
    http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/cpu/intel-thermal-features-core2.html

    (Download - look for RMClock, available as RAR or .exe self-extracting)
    http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml

    There are probably other programs that can tell you about
    throttling, but I haven't been looking for any recently.

    Paul
     
  8. Allan

    Allan Guest

    "Paul" <> wrote in message
    news:jgrf49$mke$...
    > Allan wrote:
    >>
    >> "Allan" <nospam> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> "Paul" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:jg2to3$ljt$...
    >>>> Allan wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>> <<some snips>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You have put doubts in my mind now about that particular motherboard,
    >>>>> as you say IF I reduce the RAM I will have some money spare, may I ask
    >>>>> you which motherboard you would recommend within the ASUS range
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Allan
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't buy motherboards often enough to have any first hand picks to
    >>>> offer.
    >>>>
    >>>> Start by checking the reviews on Newegg, and sort the output by Best
    >>>> Reviews.
    >>>> In terms of the number of reviews, a "popular" motherboard is likely to
    >>>> be
    >>>> selected for ability to easily overclock. And not everyone is looking
    >>>> for
    >>>> that. But there can be other reasons for wanting a popular board.
    >>>>
    >>>> What I look for, is consistent failures. For example, if everyone is
    >>>> getting
    >>>> motherboards with damaged sockets, you have to suspect a quality issue.
    >>>> (While handling in shipping can account for some of it, it could be the
    >>>> product
    >>>> isn't protected well enough.) Or if, say, people are reporting they're
    >>>> ripping
    >>>> the SATA connector off the board and not abusing it, then you'd stay
    >>>> away
    >>>> from the thing.
    >>>>
    >>>> In other cases, based on the reviews, you may detect the BIOS is not
    >>>> mature.
    >>>> On average, it takes about five BIOS releases, before things settle
    >>>> down.
    >>>> After five updates, the "A" team isn't working on it any more, and by
    >>>> then,
    >>>> they're supposed to stop "tuning" things. Now, some motherboards
    >>>> (workstation
    >>>> class), may not even see five BIOS updates. Generally, the BIOS updates
    >>>> should continue to be delivered, for a decent interval on the most
    >>>> popular
    >>>> boards. But if there was say a workstation class board that didn't sell
    >>>> well,
    >>>> you may be at a disadvantage in getting a good quality BIOS. Reports of
    >>>> RAM instability with stock settings, would be a warning about this.
    >>>> (It's really hard to tell sometimes, exactly where the hell the BIOS
    >>>> design has come from. I have an Asrock board here, where they basically
    >>>> just dropped the BIOS half finished, with some key things turned off.
    >>>> So
    >>>> some motherboards have a really strange design history. You'd probably
    >>>> not going to run into problems like that.)
    >>>>
    >>>> When you read the reviews, in some cases you can tell a reviewers "bad
    >>>> luck",
    >>>> is self inflicted. That's why you can't just accept the raw numbers at
    >>>> the
    >>>> top of the page, as an indicator of quality. For example, an Asus board
    >>>> may do no better than 4 out of 5, for no particular reason. You really
    >>>> have to look at the review contents, to see if the user experience
    >>>> matches their rating.
    >>>>
    >>>> You could easily stick with the things you've selected, and perhaps
    >>>> not see a big difference between your new choice versus your old
    >>>> choice.
    >>>> Like I say, I threw in nit picks. My experience with the predecessors
    >>>> of your processor choice, show the recent crop of Intel processors
    >>>> to be not too heavily influenced by how they're fed, so you don't
    >>>> have to fret about it too much. (My backup Core2 system, runs DDR2-533
    >>>> and still feels plenty fast. And that tells you the cache inside
    >>>> the processor does a good job of hiding the RAM performance. Only
    >>>> an application with truly random data access pattern, starts to
    >>>> show the difference. Like digital chip logic simulation, or
    >>>> fluid flow through soil simulations for example. Those have
    >>>> random patterns. Your video application, isn't like that.)
    >>>>
    >>>> HTH,
    >>>> Paul
    >>>
    >>> Thank you for that, I will think about it over the next 24 hours and if
    >>> it is Ok with you, I will post my final decision on here and you can
    >>> then PLEASE give me your views
    >>>
    >>> Once again thanks

    >>
    >>
    >> Paul
    >>
    >> I went for the following:-
    >>
    >> Asus P8Z68-V LE Socket 1155 Motherboard
    >> CORE I7-2600K 3.40GHZ unlocked plus Intel Fan
    >> Corsair Vengeance Performance Memory 2 x 4GB
    >> LiteOn iHAS122 22X DVD-RW/RAM Sata
    >> ASUS EN GT240 1GB Graphics DDR3 (already had)
    >> When it arrived, I started to scratch my head and thought this was way
    >> above my head and I am totally out of my depth. Any case I battled on and
    >> to my surprise I managed to get the PC up and running (first attempt) and
    >> installed Windows 7 Home Premium and all my other programs.
    >>
    >> I have three questions to ask you please
    >>
    >> 1 The new motherboard also has a 8 pin atx socket ................ my
    >> previous Asus MB ony had four pin connection.
    >> Unfortunately the Antec Case I had only had a 4 and a 6 pin connection. I
    >> opted for the 4 pin connection as it plugged into the first part on the
    >> motherboard ............is that correct or should I use the 6 pin or
    >> should I do something else??????
    >>
    >> 2 I had a little problem with the fan, it wouldn't connect easily ......I
    >> think I have now managed it ok; however when converting mpg files to avi
    >> the temperature fluctuates between about 52C and 60C does that sound
    >> about right (room temp is about 21C) ? Motherboard constant all the time
    >> at about 26C. When idling the CPU is about 32C. I have the latest BIOS
    >> and also use the ASUS A1 Suite to take readings
    >>
    >> 3 When using the Asus A1 suite I used the TurboV EVO auto turning
    >> ........it said it increased it by 30%; however whilst doing a MPG to AVI
    >> conversion I had a Heat warning from the A1 Suite saying it was 72C
    >> .................. It then hovered around 78C (no higher that 80C) is
    >> this too hot to run ? Do you think I have the fan fitted correct?
    >>
    >> ps also ran prime95 but had to turn it off after about 5 minutes as it
    >> went well above 80C
    >>
    >> Hope that makes sense.
    >>
    >> TIA

    >
    > The ATX12V 2x2 connector has two yellow wires and two black wires. It's
    > meant to carry the power the processor uses. The rail is called 12V2
    > (you check the 12V2 entry on the power supply label, to see if it
    > can provide the needed current for the processor).
    >
    > There is probably more than 144W of capability by using a 2x2 connector.
    > Your 2600K is 95W TDP. So the 2x2 connector with the two yellow wires
    > is enough to make it work. You don't need a power supply with a 2x4
    > connector.
    > The current rises when you overclock, but you've still got a bit of
    > headroom.
    >
    > When a motherboard comes with a 2x4 ATX12V connector, the spare two holes
    > can be covered by a sticker. That helps point you to the correct
    > orientation for the connector. The latch on the connector, should match
    > up with the latch on the motherboard end. The shape of the nylon shell
    > on each of the pins, helps ensure correct orientation as well.
    >
    > http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/4pinin8.jpg
    >
    > *******
    >
    > For typical temperatures, try reading the Feedback section
    > of the Newegg entry for 2600K.
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070
    >
    > "Cons: Not really a con, but not all chips are created equally in terms
    > of overclocking. I have to use a pretty high voltage in order to
    > achieve a *stable* 4.5 ghz (1.4v).
    >
    > Other Thoughts: You'll want at minimum an after market heatsink fan if
    > you plan on overclocking this CPU to any extent. It
    > may
    > have just been my particular chip or a thermal sensor,
    > but I couldn't overclock with the stock heatsink fan
    > hardly
    > at all without hitting some uncomfortable temperatures
    > (I'm
    > talking >75 C after a couple minutes of prime95, well
    > before
    > even hitting the thermal saturation point!)."
    >
    > Various posters in the Feedback section, describe their cooling solutions,
    > but I don't know if I'd go as far as they did.
    >
    > *******
    >
    > I notice after market heatsinks are a lot more expensive now. This is an
    > example of the massive heatsinks you can get. This one has the heatpipes
    > making contact with the processor, which is not my favorite config. I'd
    > prefer a base plate with the pipes mounted in it, to spread the heat
    > into the pipes. At least the reviews didn't complain about installing
    > this thing. At one time, the original Tower was a bear to install, and
    > hard to get at the fasteners with the heatsink in the way. For things
    > this large, you have to inspect the inside of your computer case, for
    > clearance. For example, if your computer case wasn't very wide, you
    > might not be able to get the side panel back on :)
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154011
    >
    > *******
    >
    > The processor is designed to protect itself, and should not run
    > so hot as to endanger lifespan. It'll throttle, meaning you
    > lose some performance, if it gets too hot. Which is why, if you're
    > going to be cranking it, it would pay to improve the cooling a bit.
    >
    > You can continue to experiment with the retail cooler, perhaps
    > re-applying paste before reinstalling it.
    >
    > On my current computer, I have an aftermarket. While my backup
    > computer has a similar processor, but uses the provided Intel fan.
    > And they really aren't that much different, in usage. But since
    > you're getting closer to the limit, you might want to work on
    > your cooling a bit. Neither of my machines runs that hot.
    >
    > You can use RMClock to check for throttling, as long as the
    > program knows about your processor. So this program could
    > give you some hints. You can experiment with Speedfan for
    > fan speed control, like they did, and reduce the cooling
    > on the processor until you see throttling occur. That will tell
    > you what kind of headroom you have. If you let it get hot
    > enough (about 20C over throttle point), the computer will switch
    > off (so don't have any important files open at the time).
    >
    > (Demo)
    > http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/cpu/intel-thermal-features-core2.html
    >
    > (Download - look for RMClock, available as RAR or .exe self-extracting)
    > http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml
    >
    > There are probably other programs that can tell you about
    > throttling, but I haven't been looking for any recently.
    >
    > Paul


    Once again many many thanks for your detailed advice and help
    I have a little bit or reading to do now :)

    Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX
    ................... are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I
    could use the 6 pin?

    Thank You
     
  9. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Allan wrote:

    >
    > Once again many many thanks for your detailed advice and help
    > I have a little bit or reading to do now :)
    >
    > Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX
    > .................. are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I
    > could use the 6 pin?
    >
    > Thank You


    The 2x4 ATX12V (four yellow on one side, four black on the other),
    is for extreme overclocking. for example, on Tomshardware, they
    cranked a D 805 to 4GHz, and the power draw is over 200 watts
    when you do that. A 2x2 connector would begin to overheat at that
    level of abuse. And then you'd want to use a 2x4 and ensure the
    12V2 rating on the power supply is 200W/12V = 17 amps or more.

    In your case, you're not anywhere near that level (yet). I don't
    have a 2600K here, so can't measure the power for you. I measure
    the power on my processors here, by using a clamp-on ammeter to get
    a DC current reading, and that's how I can tell whether I'm in
    good shape or not.

    To give an example, on one 65W processor, power stays below 36W,
    even with Prime95. On another 65w processor, it might be around 45W.

    Using an older processor (P4), the measured power was actually
    a couple watts higher than the TDP value. But current generation
    processors, tend to be on the low side, rather than the high side.
    The high side behavior peaked around Prescott days.

    Note that there are a number of small connectors on the supply.
    There is the 2x2 ATX12V (two yellow, two black wires). But there
    is also the 2x2 section of the 24 pin main connector, but it has
    four different colored wires. Occasionally, someone tries to
    connect that four different color connector, to their ATX12V, with
    disastrous results.

    There are also 2x3 and 2x4 PCI Express connectors, but they shouldn't
    mate with the motherboard. (I haven't tested that though.)
    The shapes of the nylon shell around the pins, are to help
    prevent that sort of thing.

    Power supplies also come with a 2x4 style connector, that splits
    into two pieces. That type is handy for dealing with an old
    motherboard (with 2x2 connector only on the motherboard), or
    dealing with a newer motherboard with a 2x4. You split the
    connector in two, when you want just a 2x2.

    And some supplies, even come with one 2x2 as well as a fixed 2x4
    that doesn't come apart. Usually, they'll all be part of the same
    cable assembly, as a hint they're part of 12V2 output.

    This page shows pictures of many of these variations.

    http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

    *******

    If you're overclocking 30%, that would be 95W * 1.3 = 123.5W.
    If the Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the input power needed
    to provide that power level would be 123.5W/0.90 = 137.2W.

    The most conservative rating for the 2x2 is 144W (12V @ 6A on two wires).
    The pins might be good for eight amps each, depending on the wire
    gauge used (fatter wire, removes more heat). So even at 30% overclock,
    you're still under the limit. Now, if you start cranking VCore, as
    the guy in that Newegg article was doing, then you might manage to
    get over 144W. But without a clamp-on ammeter, it's pretty hard to
    check.

    Yes, you can fit a multimeter in series with ATX12V, but your typical
    garden variety multimeter has a limit of 10 amps before the fuse blows.
    So to measure 12 amps, you'd need a better quality ammeter, or the
    services of a clamp-on ammeter.

    My ammeter can measure up to 400 amps. In fact, it doesn't really have
    good "low" ranges. But being a "non-contact" device, I can quickly take
    readings with it (you just clamp it around both yellow wires at the same
    time, and it takes the summation of the current flow). Too bad it costs
    so much more than a regular multimeter. It uses a Hall probe, to sense the
    current flow. Clamp-on ammeters come in AC only, or AC/DC, and for
    computer usage, you want DC measurement ranges. To measure DC
    currents, implies Hall probe technology.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_probe#Hall_probe

    My clamp-on ammeter.

    http://www.mitchellinstrument.com/m...319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/3/8/380947_1.jpg

    Using a clamp-on ammeter. When measuring an AC cord, you have to
    split the wire cable between wires, so that only one wire goes
    into the jaws of the instrument (otherwise, sticking the jaws around
    the entire cord, the magnetic fields around the wires cancel out).
    I have a home made "breakout cable" with the wires spread apart, for
    that purpose, so I don't have to ruin any good cords.

    On an ATX supply, all the wires are exposed, so you can get the necessary
    wire groupings right within the jaws. On the output side of the ATX supply,
    you're making DC range measurements. On the input side (if you wanted to do
    a measurement there), it would be AC ranges. For AC inputs, a
    Kill-O-Watt meter is the instrument of choice, rather than one of
    these. Kill-O-Watt can take power factor into account.

    http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z-KfZvbjyBY/0.jpg

    *******

    So if you were doing that extreme an overclock, you'd want to
    switch to a 2x4 and a newer supply with a hefty 12V2 rating.
    If you're sticking to 30%, and not cranking the hell out of
    Vcore, you might still be fine. I pick the 144W number to
    be completely safe, but the pins probably can handle a bit
    more than that.

    Damage to pins, happens over a period of time. The metal on
    the pin, goes from shiny to dull colored. This is oxidation
    from heat, or a metallurgy change on the plating. Once
    oxidation occurs, the "resistance" when the two connectors
    mate goes up, which causes the connector to get hotter,
    which hastens the demise of the connector. Eventually, the
    connector will be a charred mess. Just as the computer
    will no longer boot, you take the side panel off and there
    is the connector with a pin or two completely burned off.

    I've only had that happen once here. I burned a Molex 1x4
    on an ATI video card. Apparently, the cheesy chinese connector
    on the power supply, wasn't gripping the pin very well. (The
    current flow before the incident, was only 5 amps.) Molex
    have gone downhill, since every Tom Dick & Harry has been able
    to make them. At one time, there were fewer sources of those
    connectors, and the quality was more consistent. If you
    feel a connector is not seating properly, keep an eye on it,
    as it might go like mine did.

    Also, the 2x2 and the 24 pin main connectors have latches.
    The latch keeps the connector seated, so it can't "walk out"
    and work loose. That's another way they get burned - a connector
    can work itself loose, and then the pins burn. Make sure the
    latch is engaged, when installing. The Molex 1x4 doesn't need
    a latch, because its insertion force and retention force are
    so much higher (or at least, they used to be that way).

    Paul
     
  10. Rob

    Rob Guest


    > Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX .................. are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I could use the 6 pin?
    >
    > Thank You


    The 6-pin connector on your power supply is almost certainly
    a PCIe connector which is needed by some graphics cards. It
    won't fit the motherboard EATX 8-pin power connector. As Paul
    said, a single 4-pin EATX cable from the PSU is enough, so no
    problem in leaving the other 4 pins unused.
    PSUs either have one or two 4-pin EATX connectors, never a 6-pin.

    For your temperature issue:
    I have the same motherboard and suggest you go into the BIOS
    and reset to defaults. The AI auto-tuning (overclocking) feature
    usually pushes things too far. Overclocking the 2500 and 2600k
    (unlocked) is easy compared to older CPUs - don't change the
    base frequency or voltages, just keep raising the max multiplier
    until it becomes unstable (or temperatures too high) and drop
    back by one or two.

    HTH
    --
    Rob
     
  11. Allan

    Allan Guest

    "Paul" <> wrote in message
    news:jgrjug$ll4$...
    > Allan wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Once again many many thanks for your detailed advice and help
    >> I have a little bit or reading to do now :)
    >>
    >> Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX
    >> .................. are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I
    >> could use the 6 pin?
    >>
    >> Thank You

    >
    > The 2x4 ATX12V (four yellow on one side, four black on the other),
    > is for extreme overclocking. for example, on Tomshardware, they
    > cranked a D 805 to 4GHz, and the power draw is over 200 watts
    > when you do that. A 2x2 connector would begin to overheat at that
    > level of abuse. And then you'd want to use a 2x4 and ensure the
    > 12V2 rating on the power supply is 200W/12V = 17 amps or more.
    >
    > In your case, you're not anywhere near that level (yet). I don't
    > have a 2600K here, so can't measure the power for you. I measure
    > the power on my processors here, by using a clamp-on ammeter to get
    > a DC current reading, and that's how I can tell whether I'm in
    > good shape or not.
    >
    > To give an example, on one 65W processor, power stays below 36W,
    > even with Prime95. On another 65w processor, it might be around 45W.
    >
    > Using an older processor (P4), the measured power was actually
    > a couple watts higher than the TDP value. But current generation
    > processors, tend to be on the low side, rather than the high side.
    > The high side behavior peaked around Prescott days.
    >
    > Note that there are a number of small connectors on the supply.
    > There is the 2x2 ATX12V (two yellow, two black wires). But there
    > is also the 2x2 section of the 24 pin main connector, but it has
    > four different colored wires. Occasionally, someone tries to
    > connect that four different color connector, to their ATX12V, with
    > disastrous results.
    >
    > There are also 2x3 and 2x4 PCI Express connectors, but they shouldn't
    > mate with the motherboard. (I haven't tested that though.)
    > The shapes of the nylon shell around the pins, are to help
    > prevent that sort of thing.
    >
    > Power supplies also come with a 2x4 style connector, that splits
    > into two pieces. That type is handy for dealing with an old
    > motherboard (with 2x2 connector only on the motherboard), or
    > dealing with a newer motherboard with a 2x4. You split the
    > connector in two, when you want just a 2x2.
    >
    > And some supplies, even come with one 2x2 as well as a fixed 2x4
    > that doesn't come apart. Usually, they'll all be part of the same
    > cable assembly, as a hint they're part of 12V2 output.
    >
    > This page shows pictures of many of these variations.
    >
    > http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html
    >
    > *******
    >
    > If you're overclocking 30%, that would be 95W * 1.3 = 123.5W.
    > If the Vcore converter was 90% efficient, the input power needed
    > to provide that power level would be 123.5W/0.90 = 137.2W.
    >
    > The most conservative rating for the 2x2 is 144W (12V @ 6A on two wires).
    > The pins might be good for eight amps each, depending on the wire
    > gauge used (fatter wire, removes more heat). So even at 30% overclock,
    > you're still under the limit. Now, if you start cranking VCore, as
    > the guy in that Newegg article was doing, then you might manage to
    > get over 144W. But without a clamp-on ammeter, it's pretty hard to
    > check.
    >
    > Yes, you can fit a multimeter in series with ATX12V, but your typical
    > garden variety multimeter has a limit of 10 amps before the fuse blows.
    > So to measure 12 amps, you'd need a better quality ammeter, or the
    > services of a clamp-on ammeter.
    >
    > My ammeter can measure up to 400 amps. In fact, it doesn't really have
    > good "low" ranges. But being a "non-contact" device, I can quickly take
    > readings with it (you just clamp it around both yellow wires at the same
    > time, and it takes the summation of the current flow). Too bad it costs
    > so much more than a regular multimeter. It uses a Hall probe, to sense the
    > current flow. Clamp-on ammeters come in AC only, or AC/DC, and for
    > computer usage, you want DC measurement ranges. To measure DC
    > currents, implies Hall probe technology.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_probe#Hall_probe
    >
    > My clamp-on ammeter.
    >
    > http://www.mitchellinstrument.com/m...319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/3/8/380947_1.jpg
    >
    > Using a clamp-on ammeter. When measuring an AC cord, you have to
    > split the wire cable between wires, so that only one wire goes
    > into the jaws of the instrument (otherwise, sticking the jaws around
    > the entire cord, the magnetic fields around the wires cancel out).
    > I have a home made "breakout cable" with the wires spread apart, for
    > that purpose, so I don't have to ruin any good cords.
    >
    > On an ATX supply, all the wires are exposed, so you can get the necessary
    > wire groupings right within the jaws. On the output side of the ATX
    > supply,
    > you're making DC range measurements. On the input side (if you wanted to
    > do
    > a measurement there), it would be AC ranges. For AC inputs, a
    > Kill-O-Watt meter is the instrument of choice, rather than one of
    > these. Kill-O-Watt can take power factor into account.
    >
    > http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z-KfZvbjyBY/0.jpg
    >
    > *******
    >
    > So if you were doing that extreme an overclock, you'd want to
    > switch to a 2x4 and a newer supply with a hefty 12V2 rating.
    > If you're sticking to 30%, and not cranking the hell out of
    > Vcore, you might still be fine. I pick the 144W number to
    > be completely safe, but the pins probably can handle a bit
    > more than that.
    >
    > Damage to pins, happens over a period of time. The metal on
    > the pin, goes from shiny to dull colored. This is oxidation
    > from heat, or a metallurgy change on the plating. Once
    > oxidation occurs, the "resistance" when the two connectors
    > mate goes up, which causes the connector to get hotter,
    > which hastens the demise of the connector. Eventually, the
    > connector will be a charred mess. Just as the computer
    > will no longer boot, you take the side panel off and there
    > is the connector with a pin or two completely burned off.
    >
    > I've only had that happen once here. I burned a Molex 1x4
    > on an ATI video card. Apparently, the cheesy chinese connector
    > on the power supply, wasn't gripping the pin very well. (The
    > current flow before the incident, was only 5 amps.) Molex
    > have gone downhill, since every Tom Dick & Harry has been able
    > to make them. At one time, there were fewer sources of those
    > connectors, and the quality was more consistent. If you
    > feel a connector is not seating properly, keep an eye on it,
    > as it might go like mine did.
    >
    > Also, the 2x2 and the 24 pin main connectors have latches.
    > The latch keeps the connector seated, so it can't "walk out"
    > and work loose. That's another way they get burned - a connector
    > can work itself loose, and then the pins burn. Make sure the
    > latch is engaged, when installing. The Molex 1x4 doesn't need
    > a latch, because its insertion force and retention force are
    > so much higher (or at least, they used to be that way).
    >
    > Paul


    Many thanks for that Paul .........has made things a lot clearer, and I feel
    happier.
    Generally speaking (unless I am bored one day :) I have no intention of
    overclocking, to be quite honest there is no real need for me to do that,
    but you know what us men are like :)
    I really do appreciate ALL your time and knowledge

    Thank you
     
  12. Allan

    Allan Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >> Could you please just clarify when I might use the 6 pin ATX
    >> .................. are you saying IF the 4 pin was not powerful enough I
    >> could use the 6 pin?
    >>
    >> Thank You

    >
    > The 6-pin connector on your power supply is almost certainly
    > a PCIe connector which is needed by some graphics cards. It
    > won't fit the motherboard EATX 8-pin power connector. As Paul
    > said, a single 4-pin EATX cable from the PSU is enough, so no
    > problem in leaving the other 4 pins unused.
    > PSUs either have one or two 4-pin EATX connectors, never a 6-pin.
    >
    > For your temperature issue:
    > I have the same motherboard and suggest you go into the BIOS
    > and reset to defaults. The AI auto-tuning (overclocking) feature
    > usually pushes things too far. Overclocking the 2500 and 2600k
    > (unlocked) is easy compared to older CPUs - don't change the
    > base frequency or voltages, just keep raising the max multiplier
    > until it becomes unstable (or temperatures too high) and drop
    > back by one or two.
    >
    > HTH
    > --
    > Rob
    >
    >

    Thanks for that Rob.
    After doing that auto overclocking I did go back to the BIOS and set
    defaults (F5 if I recall) as I could not find a way in A1 Suite that would
    let me do it ..................... although in TurboV EVO in manual mode it
    has a OS default ...but nothing seems to happen when I click on it :-(

    As I said to Paul ......................... <snip>

    Generally speaking (unless I am bored one day :) I have no intention of
    overclocking, to be quite honest there is no real need for me to do that,
    but you know what us men are like :)
    I really do appreciate ALL your time and knowledge

    Thank you
    <snip>

    Thanks Rob
     
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