disabling SMI

Discussion in 'AOpen' started by Larry.Martell@gmail.com, Jun 1, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    accesses.

    Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?

    TIA!
    -larry
     
    , Jun 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. Richard Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    > accesses.
    >
    > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?


    Are you using an Intel processor with this, or a compatible non Intel part?
    I have experienced a similar problem when we switched components once, but I
    forget which (non Intel) part was giving us the grief. It turned out to be
    some silicon bug which had been mentioned on the On-Time support archive.
    Sorry my memory of it is too sketchy but I think there was some way of
    disabling the SMI in software during the start-up routine - but this then
    lead me to a different problem and in the end I just ditched the processor
    for a different variant.

    It might be that your problem is completely different but I suggest looking
    through the On-Time support archive for SMI or SMM. You should hit some
    info if you go back far enough.

    Regards,
    Richard.

    http://www.FreeRTOS.org
    *Now for ARM CORTEX M3!*
     
    Richard, Jun 2, 2006
    #2
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  3. Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    > > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    > > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    > > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    > > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    > > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    > > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    > > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    > > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    > > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    > > accesses.
    > >
    > > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?

    >
    > Are you using an Intel processor with this, or a compatible non Intel part?


    I am using an Intel 3.6 GHz P4 (775 socket)

    > I have experienced a similar problem when we switched components once, but I
    > forget which (non Intel) part was giving us the grief. It turned out to be
    > some silicon bug which had been mentioned on the On-Time support archive.
    > Sorry my memory of it is too sketchy but I think there was some way of
    > disabling the SMI in software during the start-up routine - but this then
    > lead me to a different problem and in the end I just ditched the processor
    > for a different variant.
    >
    > It might be that your problem is completely different but I suggest looking
    > through the On-Time support archive for SMI or SMM. You should hit some
    > info if you go back far enough.


    I've been told this by others as well, but my searches in the archives
    have not turned up any hits.

    Thanks!
    -larry
     
    , Jun 2, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    wrote:
    > Richard wrote:
    > > <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > >I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    > > > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    > > > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    > > > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    > > > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    > > > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    > > > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    > > > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    > > > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    > > > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    > > > accesses.
    > > >
    > > > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?

    > >
    > > Are you using an Intel processor with this, or a compatible non Intel part?

    >
    > I am using an Intel 3.6 GHz P4 (775 socket
    >
    > > I have experienced a similar problem when we switched components once, but I
    > > forget which (non Intel) part was giving us the grief. It turned out to be
    > > some silicon bug which had been mentioned on the On-Time support archive.
    > > Sorry my memory of it is too sketchy but I think there was some way of
    > > disabling the SMI in software during the start-up routine - but this then
    > > lead me to a different problem and in the end I just ditched the processor
    > > for a different variant.
    > >
    > > It might be that your problem is completely different but I suggest looking
    > > through the On-Time support archive for SMI or SMM. You should hit some
    > > info if you go back far enough.

    >
    > I've been told this by others as well, but my searches in the archives
    > have not turned up any hits.


    My bad - I found these posts, but they're all related to the AMD Geode
    GX-1 CPU, not the P4. I did try what was suggested in those threads,
    but it didn't help in my situation atl all.

    -larry
     
    , Jun 2, 2006
    #4
  5. On 01.06.2006 15:51, wrote:

    > I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    > accesses.
    >
    > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?


    We've seen this (150+ us delays in our case), and it was caused by
    SMI's. Most BIOS'es do not allow you to disable SMI's. You'll have to
    program the South Bridge to disable them yourself.

    This is highly dependent on the particular chipset, so you should
    download chipset documentation from Intel (freely available). In the
    power management registers of the South Bridge, there's usually a "SMI
    global enable" bit, which you want to set to zero.

    --
    Cyril
     
    Cyril Novikov, Jun 3, 2006
    #5
  6. wrote:
    > I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    > accesses.
    >
    > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?


    https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2005-July/012391.html
    http://www.mail-archive.com//msg01507.html

    --Armin

    >
    > TIA!
    > -larry
    >
     
    Armin Steinhoff, Jun 5, 2006
    #6
  7. Guest

    Cyril Novikov wrote:
    > On 01.06.2006 15:51, wrote:
    >
    > > I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    > > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    > > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    > > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    > > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    > > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    > > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    > > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    > > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    > > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    > > accesses.
    > >
    > > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?

    >
    > We've seen this (150+ us delays in our case), and it was caused by
    > SMI's. Most BIOS'es do not allow you to disable SMI's. You'll have to
    > program the South Bridge to disable them yourself.
    >
    > This is highly dependent on the particular chipset, so you should
    > download chipset documentation from Intel (freely available). In the
    > power management registers of the South Bridge, there's usually a "SMI
    > global enable" bit, which you want to set to zero.


    Thanks very much for this reply Cyril. It was very helpful. It led me
    to discover that my motherboard does not have a Northbridge/Southbridge
    architecture; it has the newer IHA with a GMCH and ICH. I got the docs
    on my ICH, found the SMI control and enable register, and modified my
    program to clear the global SMI enable bit. This has stopped the SMI's.
    Thanks again!

    -larry
     
    , Jun 6, 2006
    #7
  8. Guest

    Armin Steinhoff wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    > > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    > > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    > > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    > > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    > > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    > > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    > > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    > > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    > > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    > > accesses.
    > >
    > > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?

    >
    > https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2005-July/012391.html
    > http://www.mail-archive.com//msg01507.html


    The code at this link is for the AMD Geode GX-1. It is not applicable
    to the P4.

    -larry
     
    , Jun 6, 2006
    #8
  9. I also have a real-time app that runs on P4. It is running on AAEON MB-845GE
    motherboard. CPU stalls for 250us for unknown reason. This event is not
    periodic, sometimes it is after less than a minute, sometimes you have to
    wait for few minutes. Motherboard is using Intel 845GE chipset. I downloaded
    datasheet for South Bridge and wrote small program to read SMI enable
    registers. All values are default (as specified in datasheet), that is, SMI
    disabled.
    After that, I disabled Thermal Monitor on CPU (TM1 & TM2) by writing to MSR
    IA32_MISC_ENABLE (bits 3 and 13). No change. Still have 250us stall.

    'cli' did not help, disabling APIC didn't help, disabling ALL interrupts on
    PIC didn't help, writing to Intel Software Developers Forum didn't help...

    Slavisa Zigic


    In comp.realtime <> wrote:
    : Armin Steinhoff wrote:
    :> wrote:
    :> > I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    :> > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    :> > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    :> > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    :> > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    :> > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    :> > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    :> > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    :> > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    :> > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    :> > accesses.
    :> >
    :> > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?
    :>
    :> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2005-July/012391.html
    :> http://www.mail-archive.com//msg01507.html

    : The code at this link is for the AMD Geode GX-1. It is not applicable
    : to the P4.

    : -larry
     
    Slavisa Zigic, Jun 6, 2006
    #9
  10. I found a way to disable SMI. Furthermore, I found that TCO_EN bit is
    causing SMI#. I am using Intel 82801DB ICH4.

    How safe it is to disable SMIs?
    Is there any problem with overheating of CPU or any other side effect?

    Thanks,

    Slavisa Zigic
    In comp.realtime Slavisa Zigic <> wrote:
    : I also have a real-time app that runs on P4. It is running on AAEON MB-845GE
    : motherboard. CPU stalls for 250us for unknown reason. This event is not
    : periodic, sometimes it is after less than a minute, sometimes you have to
    : wait for few minutes. Motherboard is using Intel 845GE chipset. I downloaded
    : datasheet for South Bridge and wrote small program to read SMI enable
    : registers. All values are default (as specified in datasheet), that is, SMI
    : disabled.
    : After that, I disabled Thermal Monitor on CPU (TM1 & TM2) by writing to MSR
    : IA32_MISC_ENABLE (bits 3 and 13). No change. Still have 250us stall.

    : 'cli' did not help, disabling APIC didn't help, disabling ALL interrupts on
    : PIC didn't help, writing to Intel Software Developers Forum didn't help...

    : Slavisa Zigic


    : In comp.realtime <> wrote:
    : : Armin Steinhoff wrote:
    : :> wrote:
    : :> > I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running it on
    : :> > has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the On-Time RTOS.
    : :> > We have found that every 37 seconds the app completely stops running
    : :> > for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus analyzer we discovered that
    : :> > between the last operation done by my app and when my app resumes
    : :> > running shows 100's and 100's of I/O reads and writes to addresses B3,
    : :> > EB, and 61. Googling on this has led me to believe that these accesses
    : :> > are related to SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS -
    : :> > USB, LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem, firewire,
    : :> > MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I still see these
    : :> > accesses.
    : :> >
    : :> > Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?
    : :>
    : :> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2005-July/012391.html
    : :> http://www.mail-archive.com//msg01507.html

    : : The code at this link is for the AMD Geode GX-1. It is not applicable
    : : to the P4.

    : : -larry
     
    Slavisa Zigic, Jun 7, 2006
    #10
  11. CBFalconer Guest

    *** rampant top-posting fixed ***
    Slavisa Zigic wrote:
    > In comp.realtime Slavisa Zigic <> wrote:
    >> <> wrote:
    >>> Armin Steinhoff wrote:
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running
    >>>>> it on has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the
    >>>>> On-Time RTOS. We have found that every 37 seconds the app
    >>>>> completely stops running for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus
    >>>>> analyzer we discovered that between the last operation done by
    >>>>> my app and when my app resumes running shows 100's and 100's of
    >>>>> I/O reads and writes to addresses B3, EB, and 61. Googling on
    >>>>> this has led me to believe that these accesses are related to
    >>>>> SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS - USB,
    >>>>> LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem,
    >>>>> firewire, MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I
    >>>>> still see these accesses.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?
    >>>>
    >>>> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2005-July/012391.html
    >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com//msg01507.html
    >>>
    >>> The code at this link is for the AMD Geode GX-1. It is not
    >>> applicable to the P4.

    >>
    >> I also have a real-time app that runs on P4. It is running on
    >> AAEON MB-845GE motherboard. CPU stalls for 250us for unknown
    >> reason. This event is not periodic, sometimes it is after less
    >> than a minute, sometimes you have to wait for few minutes.
    >> Motherboard is using Intel 845GE chipset. I downloaded datasheet
    >> for South Bridge and wrote small program to read SMI enable
    >> registers. All values are default (as specified in datasheet),
    >> that is, SMI disabled.
    >>
    >> After that, I disabled Thermal Monitor on CPU (TM1 & TM2) by
    >> writing to MSR IA32_MISC_ENABLE (bits 3 and 13). No change.
    >> Still have 250us stall.
    >>
    >> 'cli' did not help, disabling APIC didn't help, disabling ALL
    >> interrupts on PIC didn't help, writing to Intel Software
    >> Developers Forum didn't help...

    >
    > I found a way to disable SMI. Furthermore, I found that TCO_EN
    > bit is causing SMI#. I am using Intel 82801DB ICH4.
    >
    > How safe it is to disable SMIs? Is there any problem with
    > overheating of CPU or any other side effect?


    Since this thread seems to contain valuable information, I have
    gone to the trouble of correcting the top-posting and making it
    readable. It is much easier to just avoid top-posting in the first
    place. Your answer belongs after, or intermixed with, the material
    to which you reply.

    --
    "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.
    They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country
    and our people, and neither do we." -- G. W. Bush.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the
    leaders. All you have to do is tell them they are being
    attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism
    and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way
    in any country." --Hermann Goering.
     
    CBFalconer, Jun 7, 2006
    #11
  12. Guest

    CBFalconer wrote:
    > *** rampant top-posting fixed ***
    > Slavisa Zigic wrote:
    > > In comp.realtime Slavisa Zigic <> wrote:
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >>> Armin Steinhoff wrote:
    > >>>> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>> I have a real-time app that runs on a P4. The box we are running
    > >>>>> it on has an Aopen i865PEa-7IF motherboard. We are using the
    > >>>>> On-Time RTOS. We have found that every 37 seconds the app
    > >>>>> completely stops running for 250 microseconds. Using a PCI bus
    > >>>>> analyzer we discovered that between the last operation done by
    > >>>>> my app and when my app resumes running shows 100's and 100's of
    > >>>>> I/O reads and writes to addresses B3, EB, and 61. Googling on
    > >>>>> this has led me to believe that these accesses are related to
    > >>>>> SMI's and SMM. I have disabled everything in the BIOS - USB,
    > >>>>> LAN, power management, serial and parallel ports, modem,
    > >>>>> firewire, MIDI and game ports - yet my app still stops and I
    > >>>>> still see these accesses.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> Does anyone know how I can totally disable the SMI's?
    > >>>>
    > >>>> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2005-July/012391.html
    > >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com//msg01507.html
    > >>>
    > >>> The code at this link is for the AMD Geode GX-1. It is not
    > >>> applicable to the P4.
    > >>
    > >> I also have a real-time app that runs on P4. It is running on
    > >> AAEON MB-845GE motherboard. CPU stalls for 250us for unknown
    > >> reason. This event is not periodic, sometimes it is after less
    > >> than a minute, sometimes you have to wait for few minutes.
    > >> Motherboard is using Intel 845GE chipset. I downloaded datasheet
    > >> for South Bridge and wrote small program to read SMI enable
    > >> registers. All values are default (as specified in datasheet),
    > >> that is, SMI disabled.
    > >>
    > >> After that, I disabled Thermal Monitor on CPU (TM1 & TM2) by
    > >> writing to MSR IA32_MISC_ENABLE (bits 3 and 13). No change.
    > >> Still have 250us stall.
    > >>
    > >> 'cli' did not help, disabling APIC didn't help, disabling ALL
    > >> interrupts on PIC didn't help, writing to Intel Software
    > >> Developers Forum didn't help...

    > >
    > > I found a way to disable SMI. Furthermore, I found that TCO_EN
    > > bit is causing SMI#. I am using Intel 82801DB ICH4.
    > >
    > > How safe it is to disable SMIs? Is there any problem with
    > > overheating of CPU or any other side effect?


    Depending on the specific MB, disabling SMI's could cause USB, power
    management, audio, on-board NIC, MIDI, and joystick interfaces to not
    work. On my platform (an Aopen i865PEa-7IF) the USB and NIC are still
    working, and the other things are not needed by my app.

    > Since this thread seems to contain valuable information, I have
    > gone to the trouble of correcting the top-posting and making it
    > readable. It is much easier to just avoid top-posting in the first
    > place. Your answer belongs after, or intermixed with, the material
    > to which you reply.


    Thanks for doing this. Top-posting drives me crazy!

    -larry
     
    , Jun 13, 2006
    #12
  13. AtariKSI

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Edison, NJ
    I have a similar issue as I write peripheral simulators for older machines (Ataris and Amigas) and I can't get the RDTSC to give me consistent results with various machines. On Toshiba laptops for example, it requires SMIs or some sort of watchdog timer to turn on/off the fan else the system heats up and shuts down. But with those timers on, the frequency of the processor changes with temperature and screws up the timing results I get from RDTSC. I have so far been using the original PIT (8253) to time things but it's slow and inefficient using ports 40h..43h and isn't as accurate.

    Perhaps, someone can post code for disabling SMIs in general that they have discovered or read somewhere here. I know this won't help on some machines as it causes them to shut-down but it may help with other machines.

    Thanks.
     
    AtariKSI, Apr 29, 2011
    #13
  14. AtariKSI

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Edison, NJ
    Anyone get more information about this?

    It wouldn't be so bad if SMIs were the same on all machines but they vary with the machines and depend on BIOS settings as well. Really a nightmare for using PCs for accurate timing.

    Anyone find a better way to time things. Besides the PIT on old machines which isn't affected by processor frequency changes, RDTSC is just "more accurate" in name only.
     
    AtariKSI, May 3, 2013
    #14
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