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Downgrading from Vista to XP Pro

Discussion in 'Tablet PC' started by Flinders, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Flinders

    Flinders Guest

    I have an HP tablet, newly purchased, running Vista Premium care of the
    manufacturer. I upgraded this to Ultimate and loaded Microsoft Office 2007.
    Nothing else! It is a disappointingly unstable platform. I propose to buy a
    second hard drive, put the Vista on the shelf in the hope of a more reliable
    future. I have a copy of XP Pro with SP2. If I load this onto a clean drive
    will the tablet features work or not?
    Flinders, Mar 25, 2008
    #1
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  2. >> I have a copy of XP Pro with SP2. <<

    Suggest searching this forum as, in essence, the tablet functionality
    will be lost if you go this route.

    Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP recovery disk
    from the oem... if that is even possible.

    To search this group, use
    http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.tabletpc?hl=en

    Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
    Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev], Mar 25, 2008
    #2
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  3. Flinders

    Sven Guest

    The deal is that to get Tablet functionality you need XP Tablet Edition,
    which was never sold to consumers, only OEMs. Beyond that each manufacturer
    supplies drivers specific to a particular Tablet model. If HP didn't produce
    XP drivers for your model, you would be losing a lot of functionality.

    --
    Sven
    MVP Mobile Devices
    "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
    message news:%23p$...
    > >> I have a copy of XP Pro with SP2. <<

    >
    > Suggest searching this forum as, in essence, the tablet functionality will
    > be lost if you go this route.
    >
    > Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP recovery disk
    > from the oem... if that is even possible.
    >
    > To search this group, use
    > http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.tabletpc?hl=en
    >
    > Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
    Sven, Mar 25, 2008
    #3
  4. Flinders

    Flinders Guest

    Thank you for your responses. I had been warned that I may acquire a few
    problems in moving on to Vista. Looks like a waste of money at the moment.
    Clearly I purchased a tablet PC (HP tx2011au) for a reason but until Vista
    runs with more stability I think I'll get more functionality out of XP! Also
    I'll get my firewire function back too! I f I keep the Vista on the original
    harddrive I guess it will not be too painful to look at an upgrade at a later
    date. Am I alone in finding a clean unsullied installation of Vista so poor?
    I doubt I'll get downgrade OEM discs out of HP although they have sold such
    systems in the past - they are yet to reply to any of my online questions
    (both pre and post purchase!).
    Might just buy a Mac next time

    "Sven" wrote:

    > The deal is that to get Tablet functionality you need XP Tablet Edition,
    > which was never sold to consumers, only OEMs. Beyond that each manufacturer
    > supplies drivers specific to a particular Tablet model. If HP didn't produce
    > XP drivers for your model, you would be losing a lot of functionality.
    >
    > --
    > Sven
    > MVP Mobile Devices
    > "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
    > message news:%23p$...
    > > >> I have a copy of XP Pro with SP2. <<

    > >
    > > Suggest searching this forum as, in essence, the tablet functionality will
    > > be lost if you go this route.
    > >
    > > Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP recovery disk
    > > from the oem... if that is even possible.
    > >
    > > To search this group, use
    > > http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.tabletpc?hl=en
    > >
    > > Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

    >
    Flinders, Mar 26, 2008
    #4
  5. Flinders

    Sven Guest

    I've got an HP Tx1327 running Vista. While it isn't the speediest thing
    around, it seems to work fine, stable, etc. It came with Home Premium, and I
    haven't seen the need to upgrade. I obviously can't join a domain at home,
    but I can access the server file shares and my exchange server by just
    supplying the appropriate credentials. I'm running Office 2007 on it as
    well.

    Have you tried just rebuilding the thing from the recovery disks you surely
    made, and applying SP1 right away?

    --
    Sven
    MVP Mobile Devices
    "Flinders" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thank you for your responses. I had been warned that I may acquire a few
    > problems in moving on to Vista. Looks like a waste of money at the moment.
    > Clearly I purchased a tablet PC (HP tx2011au) for a reason but until Vista
    > runs with more stability I think I'll get more functionality out of XP!
    > Also
    > I'll get my firewire function back too! I f I keep the Vista on the
    > original
    > harddrive I guess it will not be too painful to look at an upgrade at a
    > later
    > date. Am I alone in finding a clean unsullied installation of Vista so
    > poor?
    > I doubt I'll get downgrade OEM discs out of HP although they have sold
    > such
    > systems in the past - they are yet to reply to any of my online questions
    > (both pre and post purchase!).
    > Might just buy a Mac next time
    >
    > "Sven" wrote:
    >
    >> The deal is that to get Tablet functionality you need XP Tablet Edition,
    >> which was never sold to consumers, only OEMs. Beyond that each
    >> manufacturer
    >> supplies drivers specific to a particular Tablet model. If HP didn't
    >> produce
    >> XP drivers for your model, you would be losing a lot of functionality.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Sven
    >> MVP Mobile Devices
    >> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
    >> message news:%23p$...
    >> > >> I have a copy of XP Pro with SP2. <<
    >> >
    >> > Suggest searching this forum as, in essence, the tablet functionality
    >> > will
    >> > be lost if you go this route.
    >> >
    >> > Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP recovery
    >> > disk
    >> > from the oem... if that is even possible.
    >> >
    >> > To search this group, use
    >> > http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.tabletpc?hl=en
    >> >
    >> > Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

    >>
    Sven, Mar 26, 2008
    #5
  6. Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] schrieb:

    >>> I have a copy of XP Pro with SP2. <<

    >
    > Suggest searching this forum as, in essence, the tablet
    > functionality will be lost if you go this route.
    >
    > Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP recovery
    > disk from the oem... if that is even possible.


    It's not possible.
    HP doesn't offer XP TabletPC edition for the newer types of machine.

    Rainald
    Rainald Taesler, May 7, 2008
    #6
  7. Flinders wrote:

    > I have an HP tablet, newly purchased, running Vista Premium care of
    > the manufacturer. I upgraded this to Ultimate and loaded Microsoft
    > Office 2007. Nothing else! It is a disappointingly unstable
    > platform. I propose to buy a second hard drive, put the Vista on
    > the shelf in the hope of a more reliable future. I have a copy of
    > XP Pro with SP2. If I load this onto a clean drive will the tablet
    > features work or not?


    In addition to what the others already said:
    There are *two* layers of problems:
    (a) Getting XP TabletPC Edition installed in the machine;
    (b) finding the additional drivers for your machine.

    ad (a):
    XP TabletPC Edition never was sold separately.
    It always was bound to the machines.

    Your copy of XP probably won't fit. (i.e.: you might not get the needed
    TabletPC instruments installed).
    With machines that came with XP it was possible to use any retail XP CD
    with SP2 and install that using the product key on the XP sticker on the
    machine. This did not work with OEM versions (other than those from the
    manufacturer) and Volume Licence CDs because those would not accept the
    necessary product key. Furthermore the existence of the directory
    "CMPNENTS" on the CD is crucial.
    IMHO the product key would be the main problem.

    ad (b)
    On addition to the "naked" TabletPC OS version you'd need additional
    drivers fro the specific hardware built-in in your machine.
    Most probably the hardware components differ from those used in earlier
    series.
    For some devices the drivers offered for Vista ob the HP download site
    might fit. For other devices XP-drivers offered for other machines might
    be used.
    But the situation for certain will not be too easy. In the HP forums
    there's tons of threads on "upgrading to XP" for HP notebooks which came
    with Vista only. For most problems solutions were found. But things are
    lot more complex with TabletPCs.

    It would not hurt, however, to visit the said forums and search and ask
    there. AFAICS "notebook - HP Compaq, Armada, EVO, LTE, Tablet PC"
    http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service...Id=274&admit=109447626 1210198535135 28353475
    would the proper place.

    HTH
    Rainald
    Rainald Taesler, May 7, 2008
    #7
  8. Flinders

    Sinner Guest

    "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
    message news:%23p$...
    >
    > Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP recovery disk
    > from the oem... if that is even possible.
    >


    That is not true. You can legally buy, and install, an OEM version of the
    OS from any system builder willing to sell to you. Or can I look forward to
    MS's storm troopers showing up on my doorstep?
    Sinner, Aug 8, 2008
    #8
  9. Sinner wrote:

    > "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote
    > in message news:%23p$...
    >>
    >> Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP
    >> recovery disk from the oem... if that is even possible.

    >
    > That is not true. You can legally buy, and install, an OEM version
    > of the OS from any system builder willing to sell to you.


    I wish good luck for finding one having to sell XP TapletPC ...

    Rainald
    Rainald Taesler, Aug 8, 2008
    #9
  10. Flinders

    Sinner Guest

    "Rainald Taesler" <> wrote in message
    news:%23GdfsKW%...
    > Sinner wrote:
    >
    >> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote
    >> in message news:%23p$...
    >>>
    >>> Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP
    >>> recovery disk from the oem... if that is even possible.

    >>
    >> That is not true. You can legally buy, and install, an OEM version
    >> of the OS from any system builder willing to sell to you.

    >
    > I wish good luck for finding one having to sell XP TapletPC ...
    >



    Well, here's one:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16837102094

    You'll find others on eBay also.
    Sinner, Aug 8, 2008
    #10
  11. Sinner wrote:

    > "Rainald Taesler" wrote ...
    >
    >> Sinner wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote
    >>> in message news:%23p$...
    >>>>
    >>>> Per the posts, your only legal option is to purchase an XP
    >>>> recovery disk from the oem... if that is even possible.
    >>>
    >>> That is not true. You can legally buy, and install, an OEM
    >>> version of the OS from any system builder willing to sell to you.

    >>
    >> I wish good luck for finding one having to sell XP TapletPC ...

    >
    > Well, here's one:
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16837102094
    >
    > You'll find others on eBay also.


    I saw that before (someone had announced that in this NG) and really
    wondered how Newegg can afford to run into serious conflicts with MS.

    I'm pretty sure that this is an offer conforming with the valid legal
    patterns.
    IMO Newegg clearly violates the licence conditions and so does the
    end-user who works with this software.

    Just see the "Disclaimer" in the upper right corner:
    "Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms
    of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended
    for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM
    System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end
    user support for the Windows software ... "

    Also:
    http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf

    MS never sold XP TabletPC edition separately. It was strictly bound to
    the hardware manufacturers.

    Rainald
    Rainald Taesler, Aug 8, 2008
    #11
  12. Flinders

    Sinner Guest

    "Rainald Taesler" <> wrote in message
    news:uIeUxIa%...
    >
    > I saw that before (someone had announced that in this NG) and really
    > wondered how Newegg can afford to run into serious conflicts with MS.
    >
    > I'm pretty sure that this is an offer conforming with the valid legal
    > patterns.
    > IMO Newegg clearly violates the licence conditions and so does the
    > end-user who works with this software.
    >
    > Just see the "Disclaimer" in the upper right corner:
    > "Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms
    > of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended
    > for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM
    > System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end
    > user support for the Windows software ... "
    >
    > Also:
    > http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf
    >
    > MS never sold XP TabletPC edition separately. It was strictly bound to
    > the hardware manufacturers.
    >


    Do you honestly believe that if MS had any legal way to prevent the sale of
    any OEM packages that they wouldn't exercise those ways? MS doesn't worry
    about it because they've already been paid, they don't have to provide any
    form of support and once activated, that OEM package is tied to one specific
    piece of hardware.

    Why should outfits like Newegg be stuck with software they can't sell just
    because MS no longer wants it put into new hardware? If MS doesn't like it,
    they can always drop the OEM business model. Sell nothing but full retail
    packages, even to system builders. Force the builders to provide actual
    media instead of hidden partitions and backup utilities. While they're at
    it, eliminate the damned Upgrade packages.

    I used my Vista Ultimate Upgrade package illegally. I did a clean install
    on a blank HD without providing any proof of ownership of a valid OS before
    hand. I'm gonna burn in hell for sure.
    Sinner, Aug 8, 2008
    #12
  13. Sinner wrote:

    > "Rainald Taesler" wrote: in message
    >> I'm pretty sure that this is an offer conforming with the valid
    >> legal patterns.


    Sorry, a really bad typo ("not" missing).
    Should read:
    "I'm pretty sure that this is an offer NOT conforming
    with the valid legal patterns."

    >> IMO Newegg clearly violates the licence conditions and so does the
    >> end-user who works with this software.


    [...]
    http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf
    >>
    >> MS never sold XP TabletPC edition separately. It was strictly
    >> bound to the hardware manufacturers.

    >
    > Do you honestly believe that if MS had any legal way to prevent the
    > sale of any OEM packages that they wouldn't exercise those ways?


    Can't say if they would if they knew of this case of criminal behaviour
    of Newegg. I have absolutely no idea on anything related to the policies
    and practices MS is following in the prosecution of obvious violations
    of their copyright and breach of licence agreements.

    IMO its without any doubt that MS has a very strong legal position to
    prevent an offer like the one from Newegg discussed here.

    > MS doesn't worry about it because they've already been paid, they
    > don't have to provide any form of support and once activated, that
    > OEM package is tied to one specific piece of hardware.


    That's just a mere assumption.
    Fact is that the TabletPC OS never was sold to anybody except the
    TabletPC manufacturers.

    Well, that's what causes the problems of those folks who bought a
    TabletPC second hand and not receiving the needed OS CD from the seller.
    Still there is no way to go the way of "I'm in a need, so I don't care
    for what the law allows or not". Breaking a bank because of being hungry
    still is a crime <gbg>.

    > Why should outfits like Newegg be stuck with software they can't
    > sell just because MS no longer wants it put into new hardware?


    Just because of the conditions the signed.
    It's simply *their* risk if they buy software for retail limited to a
    very small group of hardware manufacturers and cannot give it back ;-)

    > If MS doesn't like it, they can always drop the OEM business
    > model. Sell nothing but full retail packages, even to system builders.


    Yes, they could. But I doubt that they ever would. AFAICS offering OEM
    versions to system builders is the other side of contracts binding OEMs
    to the exclusive usage of MS OSs.
    In any case, however, this has nothing to do with the limits set forth
    by the previous or current legal patterns.

    > Force the builders to provide actual media instead of hidden
    > partitions and backup utilities. While they're at it, eliminate
    > the damned Upgrade packages.


    Policy decisions and irrelevant for the subject of conditions and
    obligations resulting from license agreements

    > I used my Vista Ultimate Upgrade package illegally. I did a clean
    > install on a blank HD without providing any proof of ownership of a
    > valid OS before hand. I'm gonna burn in hell for sure.


    LOL
    But apparently you were having a spare XP licence, didn't you?

    But keep it secrete. I will tell Mr. Balmer otherwise <gbg>.

    Rainald
    Rainald Taesler, Aug 12, 2008
    #13
  14. Flinders

    Invalid Guest

    In message <OSelYnM$>, Rainald Taesler
    <> writes
    >Sinner wrote:
    >
    >> "Rainald Taesler" wrote: in message
    >>> I'm pretty sure that this is an offer conforming with the valid
    >>> legal patterns.

    >
    >Sorry, a really bad typo ("not" missing).
    >Should read:
    >"I'm pretty sure that this is an offer NOT conforming
    >with the valid legal patterns."
    >
    >>> IMO Newegg clearly violates the licence conditions and so does the
    >>> end-user who works with this software.

    >
    >[...]
    >http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_licen
    >se_english.pdf
    >>>
    >>> MS never sold XP TabletPC edition separately. It was strictly
    >>> bound to the hardware manufacturers.

    >>
    >> Do you honestly believe that if MS had any legal way to prevent the
    >> sale of any OEM packages that they wouldn't exercise those ways?

    >
    >Can't say if they would if they knew of this case of criminal behaviour
    >of Newegg. I have absolutely no idea on anything related to the policies
    >and practices MS is following in the prosecution of obvious violations
    >of their copyright and breach of licence agreements.
    >
    >IMO its without any doubt that MS has a very strong legal position to
    >prevent an offer like the one from Newegg discussed here.
    >
    >> MS doesn't worry about it because they've already been paid, they
    >> don't have to provide any form of support and once activated, that
    >> OEM package is tied to one specific piece of hardware.

    >
    >That's just a mere assumption.
    >Fact is that the TabletPC OS never was sold to anybody except the
    >TabletPC manufacturers.
    >
    >Well, that's what causes the problems of those folks who bought a
    >TabletPC second hand and not receiving the needed OS CD from the seller.
    >Still there is no way to go the way of "I'm in a need, so I don't care
    >for what the law allows or not". Breaking a bank because of being hungry
    >still is a crime <gbg>.
    >


    Sorry to be such a cynic, but I might be persuaded to think that far
    from risking their relationship with MS (why would they?), Newegg are
    doing this at MS behest (why would Newegg buy OEM Tablet licences in the
    first place? Why would MS sell them to someone who does not manufacture
    Tablet hardware?)

    MS have a problem - second hand XP tablets with no media are becoming
    quite common (a big enough pool of customers for Newegg to risk their
    relationship with MS might just be of interest to MS as well!!). If they
    do nothing except point the users at the manufacturers they get a load
    of pissed off customers (many of whom are likely to be fairly
    sophisticated and hence "thought leaders" in their groups of
    acquaintances). MS have been paid for a licence for the machine, but
    it's now unusable because of the lack of availability of a CD copy of
    the OS. Other components of the machines can be replaced easily enough
    by purchasing them from the component vendors - only MS refuses to
    co-operate.

    The users in question are the kind who will simply get a CD copy made by
    someone else (piracy? I have a licence for the software glued to the
    machine - but it doesn't do to encourage copying!!).

    However let/encourage a relatively major firm that supplies components
    to this market "leak" spare copies out of the door. MS get a problem
    solved, AND get paid for a second licence on the hardware. A win all
    round except for the customer (as usual) who pays twice somewhere down
    the line.


    --
    Peter R Cook
    Invalid, Aug 13, 2008
    #14
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