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Economics of SATA hard drive

Discussion in 'AMD Overclocking' started by Warra, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. Warra

    Warra Guest

    Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.

    Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need to
    add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA) because
    newer mobos will support only SATA.

    Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    delivery which is a real bargain.

    But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's one-
    third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!

    What viable alternatives do I have?
     
    Warra, Jun 21, 2006
    #1
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  2. Warra

    Rod Speed Guest

    Warra <> wrote:
    > Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    > mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >
    > Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need
    > to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA)
    > because newer mobos will support only SATA.
    >
    > Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    > delivery which is a real bargain.
    >
    > But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    > supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's
    > one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!
    >
    > What viable alternatives do I have?


    Find a cheaper PCI SATA adaptor on ebay.
     
    Rod Speed, Jun 21, 2006
    #2
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  3. Warra

    Derek Guest

    "Warra" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns97E9F2357614B628D1@127.0.0.1...
    > Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    > mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >
    > Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need to
    > add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA) because
    > newer mobos will support only SATA.
    >
    > Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    > delivery which is a real bargain.
    >
    > But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    > supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's one-
    > third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!
    >
    > What viable alternatives do I have?

    I wouldn't worry to much, many of the 'modern' sata boards also support
    EIDE ) so you are unlikely to lose out when you need to upgrade
    Derek
     
    Derek, Jun 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Warra

    Mike Redrobe Guest

    Warra wrote:
    >
    > Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need
    > to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA)
    > because newer mobos will support only SATA.


    DVD drives are almost exclusively PATA, so its' unlikely many
    newer mobos would drop PATA altogether for a while.

    --
    Mike
     
    Mike Redrobe, Jun 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Warra

    Rod Speed Guest

    Mike Redrobe <> wrote
    > Warra wrote


    >> Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need to add to my data
    >> storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA) because newer mobos will support only
    >> SATA.


    > DVD drives are almost exclusively PATA, so its' unlikely many newer mobos would drop
    > PATA altogether for a while.


    Yes, but you may well see motherboards with not
    enough IDE ports for the hard drives you want to use.

    And there's the better cabling with SATA too.
     
    Rod Speed, Jun 22, 2006
    #5
  6. Warra

    kony Guest

    On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:48:36 +0100, Warra
    <> wrote:

    >Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    >mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >
    >Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need to
    >add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA) because
    >newer mobos will support only SATA.


    Newer boards will support at least one PATA channel because
    OEMs (and others too) are still using and preferring PATA
    optical drives.

    Plus, the same argument you are making about the need for a
    PCI SATA adapter could go the other way- that you buy a PCI
    PATA adapter for the next system "IF" it ends up needing
    one. If you don't plan on having more than one optical
    drive in your next system and plan on purchasing it within
    at least the next couple years, it is most likely it will
    have PATA.



    >
    >Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    >delivery which is a real bargain.
    >
    >But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    >supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's one-
    >third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!


    I don't know what all hardware costs over there, but trying
    to equate it based on % of a budget grade drive is a bit
    misguided. The card has, as any product does, a certain bit
    over overhead in design, manufacture, delivery, marketing,
    warranty coverage, etc, etc.


    >What viable alternatives do I have?


    The best alternative is to buy a PATA drive. It will be
    faster than an SATA, because not only will you be avoiding
    use of a PCI SATA card (slower because it's on the PCI bus
    instead of southbridge integrated as your PATA controller
    onboard, is), but ALSO because your motherboard's Via
    chipset is known to have a somewhat low realized PCI
    throughput. In other words, your board is among the worst
    to use a PCI SATA controller on.

    Get the PATA drive and let tomorrow take care of itself.
     
    kony, Jun 22, 2006
    #6
  7. Warra

    Ed Light Guest

    Later on if you need to you can get a little adapter that plugs into the
    pata and makes it sata.

    --
    Ed Light

    Smiley :-/
    MS Smiley :-\

    Send spam to the FTC at

    Thanks, robots.

    Bring the Troops Home:
    http://bringthemhomenow.org
     
    Ed Light, Jun 22, 2006
    #7
  8. Warra wrote:

    > Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    > mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >
    > Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need to
    > add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA) because
    > newer mobos will support only SATA.
    >
    > Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    > delivery which is a real bargain.
    >
    > But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    > supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's one-
    > third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!
    >
    > What viable alternatives do I have?
    >



    Consider getting a PATA drive of whatever size fits your needs. When
    its time to move to another motherboard, look for one that will support
    the hard drive. If it only has one PATA interface, it may be possible
    to use it for both the hard drive and a DVD drive. Since DVDs typically
    runs at 66mhz, the hard drive would probably run at that reduced
    bandwidth. BUT the good news is that hard drives rarely transfer data
    any faster than that except for burst from cache.
     
    Merrill P. L. Worthington, Jun 22, 2006
    #8
  9. Warra

    Horst Franke Guest

    In news: kony typed:
    > Newer boards will support at least one PATA channel because
    > OEMs (and others too) are still using and preferring PATA
    > optical drives.


    Hi Kony, I aggree.
    My last PC bought in Sep 2005 has a SATA HD as bootable
    device and also IDE connectors for older HDs.
    So there's no need for extra adapters!

    > Plus, the same argument you are making about the need for a
    > PCI SATA adapter could go the other way- that you buy a PCI
    > PATA adapter for the next system "IF" it ends up needing
    > one. If you don't plan on having more than one optical
    > drive in your next system and plan on purchasing it within
    > at least the next couple years, it is most likely it will
    > have PATA.


    Yes/No, last motherboards have SATA "and" PATA connectors.

    >> Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    >> delivery which is a real bargain.
    >> But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    >> supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's
    >> one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!


    No need for SATA if PATA can be connected. Forget it.

    > The best alternative is to buy a PATA drive. It will be
    > faster than an SATA, because not only will you be avoiding
    > use of a PCI SATA card (slower because it's on the PCI bus
    > instead of southbridge integrated as your PATA controller
    > onboard, is), but ALSO because your motherboard's Via
    > chipset is known to have a somewhat low realized PCI
    > throughput. In other words, your board is among the worst
    > to use a PCI SATA controller on.


    Don't understand. An onboard IDE will make no difference to
    an extra PCI SATA card on performance.
    And newer boards will already have a SATA interface.
    I don't see any difference on adapter speeds.
    Horst
     
    Horst Franke, Jun 22, 2006
    #9
  10. Warra

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Merrill P. L. Worthington wrote:
    > Warra wrote:
    >
    >> Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    >> mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >>
    >> Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need
    >> to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA)
    >> because newer mobos will support only SATA.
    >>
    >> Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    >> delivery which is a real bargain.
    >>
    >> But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    >> supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's
    >> one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!
    >>
    >> What viable alternatives do I have?
    >>

    >
    >
    > Consider getting a PATA drive of whatever size fits your needs. When
    > its time to move to another motherboard, look for one that will
    > support the hard drive. If it only has one PATA interface, it may be
    > possible to use it for both the hard drive and a DVD drive. Since
    > DVDs typically runs at 66mhz, the hard drive would probably run at
    > that reduced bandwidth. BUT the good news is that hard drives rarely
    > transfer data any faster than that except for burst from cache.


    What a crock of misinformation!
    --
    Shaun.
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 22, 2006
    #10
  11. ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Merrill P. L. Worthington wrote:
    >
    >>Warra wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    >>>mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >>>
    >>>Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need
    >>>to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA)
    >>>because newer mobos will support only SATA.
    >>>
    >>>Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    >>>delivery which is a real bargain.
    >>>
    >>>But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    >>>supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's
    >>>one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!
    >>>
    >>>What viable alternatives do I have?
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>Consider getting a PATA drive of whatever size fits your needs. When
    >>its time to move to another motherboard, look for one that will
    >>support the hard drive. If it only has one PATA interface, it may be
    >>possible to use it for both the hard drive and a DVD drive. Since
    >>DVDs typically runs at 66mhz, the hard drive would probably run at
    >>that reduced bandwidth. BUT the good news is that hard drives rarely
    >>transfer data any faster than that except for burst from cache.

    >
    >
    > What a crock of misinformation!



    Ya think? Prove it.
     
    Merrill P. L. Worthington, Jun 22, 2006
    #11
  12. Warra

    Ed Light Guest

    My PATA HD and DVD are on the same channel and the HD benches up to its
    maximum of 40 Mb/S.
    Device manager lists them at UDMA 133 and 33. Win XP Home. Whether this can
    happen may depend on the bios.

    --
    Ed Light

    Smiley :-/
    MS Smiley :-\

    Send spam to the FTC at

    Thanks, robots.

    Bring the Troops Home:
    http://bringthemhomenow.org
     
    Ed Light, Jun 22, 2006
    #12
  13. Warra

    Ed Light Guest

    The new nvidia chipsets for AMD AM2 have one ATA channel.


    --
    Ed Light

    Smiley :-/
    MS Smiley :-\

    Send spam to the FTC at

    Thanks, robots.

    Bring the Troops Home:
    http://bringthemhomenow.org
     
    Ed Light, Jun 22, 2006
    #13
  14. Warra

    Horst Franke Guest

    In news:K6omg.198$lv.167@fed1read12 Ed Light typed:
    > My PATA HD and DVD are on the same channel and the HD benches up to
    > its maximum of 40 Mb/S.
    > Device manager lists them at UDMA 133 and 33. Win XP Home. Whether
    > this can happen may depend on the bios.


    Hi Ed, and what has this to do with the OP's inquery?
    He asked about SATA!
    Horst
     
    Horst Franke, Jun 22, 2006
    #14
  15. Warra

    DRS Guest

    "Rod Speed" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > Mike Redrobe <> wrote
    >> Warra wrote

    >
    >>> Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently
    >>> need to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE
    >>> (PATA) because newer mobos will support only SATA.

    >
    >> DVD drives are almost exclusively PATA, so its' unlikely many newer
    >> mobos would drop PATA altogether for a while.

    >
    > Yes, but you may well see motherboards with not
    > enough IDE ports for the hard drives you want to use.


    For example, those with the Force5 chipset. It has only one IDE channel.
     
    DRS, Jun 22, 2006
    #15
  16. Warra

    Rod Speed Guest

    kony <> wrote
    > Warra <> wrote


    >> Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well:
    >> Via 266 mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.


    >> Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently
    >> need to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE
    >> (PATA) because newer mobos will support only SATA.


    > Newer boards will support at least one PATA channel
    > because OEMs (and others too) are still using and
    > preferring PATA optical drives.


    Yes, but one PATA channel may well not be enough,
    most obviously if you want to have two optical drives,
    you're stuffed, no where to put the PATA hard drives.

    > Plus, the same argument you are making about the need for a
    > PCI SATA adapter could go the other way- that you buy a PCI
    > PATA adapter for the next system "IF" it ends up needing one.


    Yes, but the newer motherboards tend to be short on card slots too.

    > If you don't plan on having more than one optical drive in
    > your next system and plan on purchasing it within at least
    > the next couple years, it is most likely it will have PATA.


    Going with SATA now does give you more future tho.

    And you get the better SATA cabling now too.

    >> Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett)
    >> for about £60 inc delivery which is a real bargain.


    >> But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs
    >> £19. It supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain
    >> as it's one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!


    > I don't know what all hardware costs over there, but trying
    > to equate it based on % of a budget grade drive is a bit
    > misguided. The card has, as any product does, a certain bit
    > over overhead in design, manufacture, delivery, marketing,
    > warranty coverage, etc, etc.


    Card can be surprisingly cheap anyway. Clearly
    a lot easier to manufacture than a hard drive too.

    >> What viable alternatives do I have?


    > The best alternative is to buy a PATA drive.


    Nope, the best alternative is a cheaper PCI SATA adaptor.

    > It will be faster than an SATA, because not only will you
    > be avoiding use of a PCI SATA card (slower because
    > it's on the PCI bus instead of southbridge integrated as
    > your PATA controller onboard, is), but ALSO because
    > your motherboard's Via chipset is known to have a
    > somewhat low realized PCI throughput.


    It isnt exactly a red hot performer, bet he wont even notice.

    > In other words, your board is among the
    > worst to use a PCI SATA controller on.


    Oh bullshit.

    > Get the PATA drive and let tomorrow take care of itself.


    Mad.
     
    Rod Speed, Jun 22, 2006
    #16
  17. Warra

    Rod Speed Guest

    Horst Franke <nospam@invalid> wrote
    > kony typed


    >> Newer boards will support at least one PATA channel because OEMs (and others too) are
    >> still using and preferring PATA optical drives.


    > Hi Kony, I aggree.


    More fool you.

    > My last PC bought in Sep 2005 has a SATA HD as bootable device and also IDE connectors
    > for older HDs. So there's no need for extra adapters!


    And some current motherboards only have a single IDE channel.

    >> Plus, the same argument you are making about the need for a
    >> PCI SATA adapter could go the other way- that you buy a PCI
    >> PATA adapter for the next system "IF" it ends up needing
    >> one. If you don't plan on having more than one optical
    >> drive in your next system and plan on purchasing it within
    >> at least the next couple years, it is most likely it will have PATA.


    > Yes/No, last motherboards have SATA "and" PATA connectors.


    And some current motherboards only have a single IDE channel.

    >>> Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc delivery which is
    >>> a real bargain.
    >>> But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It supports 2 SATA
    >>> devices. That is definitely not a bargain as
    >>> it's one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!


    > No need for SATA if PATA can be connected. Forget it.


    No thanks.

    >> The best alternative is to buy a PATA drive. It will be
    >> faster than an SATA, because not only will you be avoiding
    >> use of a PCI SATA card (slower because it's on the PCI bus
    >> instead of southbridge integrated as your PATA controller
    >> onboard, is), but ALSO because your motherboard's Via
    >> chipset is known to have a somewhat low realized PCI
    >> throughput. In other words, your board is among the worst
    >> to use a PCI SATA controller on.


    > Don't understand. An onboard IDE will make no difference to an extra PCI SATA card on
    > performance.


    He's claiming that a SATA drive and a PCI SATA adaptor
    wont perform as well in that system as an IDE drive will.

    > And newer boards will already have a SATA interface.
    > I don't see any difference on adapter speeds.


    Time for new glasses.
     
    Rod Speed, Jun 22, 2006
    #17
  18. Warra

    Rod Speed Guest

    Merrill P. L. Worthington <> wrote:
    > Warra wrote:
    >
    >> Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via 266
    >> mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >>
    >> Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently need
    >> to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE (PATA)
    >> because newer mobos will support only SATA.
    >>
    >> Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60 inc
    >> delivery which is a real bargain.
    >>
    >> But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It
    >> supports 2 SATA devices. That is definitely not a bargain as it's
    >> one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!
    >>
    >> What viable alternatives do I have?
    >>

    >
    >
    > Consider getting a PATA drive of whatever size fits your needs. When
    > its time to move to another motherboard, look for one that will
    > support the hard drive. If it only has one PATA interface, it may be
    > possible to use it for both the hard drive and a DVD drive. Since
    > DVDs typically runs at 66mhz, the hard drive would probably run at
    > that reduced bandwidth.


    Hasnt worked like that for many years now.

    > BUT the good news is that hard drives rarely transfer data any faster than that except
    > for burst from cache.


    Oh bullshit.
     
    Rod Speed, Jun 22, 2006
    #18
  19. Warra

    Rod Speed Guest

    Merrill P. L. Worthington <> wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Merrill P. L. Worthington wrote:
    >>
    >>> Warra wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Am in the UK. Running an old system which works quite well: Via
    >>>> 266 mobo with Duron 1800 processor and 768MB of SD-RAM.
    >>>>
    >>>> Will upgrade the system when I need the extra power. Currently
    >>>> need to add to my data storage. Don't want to get Parallel IDE
    >>>> (PATA) because newer mobos will support only SATA.
    >>>>
    >>>> Can get a 250GB Samsung hard drive (from Komplett) for about £60
    >>>> inc delivery which is a real bargain.
    >>>>
    >>>> But a PCI SATA adaptor by Sunsway from the same dealer costs £19. It supports 2 SATA
    >>>> devices. That is definitely not a bargain as
    >>>> it's one- third of the price of the 250 GB drive! What a swizz!
    >>>>
    >>>> What viable alternatives do I have?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Consider getting a PATA drive of whatever size fits your needs. When its time to move
    >>> to another motherboard, look for one that will
    >>> support the hard drive. If it only has one PATA interface, it may
    >>> be possible to use it for both the hard drive and a DVD drive. Since DVDs typically
    >>> runs at 66mhz, the hard drive would probably
    >>> run at that reduced bandwidth. BUT the good news is that hard
    >>> drives rarely transfer data any faster than that except for burst
    >>> from cache.


    >> What a crock of misinformation!


    > Ya think? Prove it.


    YOU made those stupid pig ignorant claims.

    YOU get to do the proving.

    THATS how it works.
     
    Rod Speed, Jun 22, 2006
    #19
  20. Warra

    Rod Speed Guest

    Ed Light <> wrote:
    > My PATA HD and DVD are on the same channel and the HD benches up to
    > its maximum of 40 Mb/S.


    > Device manager lists them at UDMA 133 and 33. Win XP Home.


    > Whether this can happen may depend on the bios.


    Nope, not anymore.
     
    Rod Speed, Jun 22, 2006
    #20
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