ECS K8T890-A and AGP video

Discussion in 'ECS' started by WaterWatcher, Jan 11, 2006.

  1. WaterWatcher

    WaterWatcher Guest

    Hi all. The local Fry's has this motherboard and a bare Athlon 64 3500+ for
    $199. Seems like a good deal, but after some research I see that the AGP-e
    slot is only good for certain video cards. I have an MSI 6600GT AGP card
    that is not on the supported list. I suppose it would be folly to try it,
    but has anyone else tried this mobo with an unsupported video card, and if
    so, what were the results?

    Thanks,
    Ray
     
    WaterWatcher, Jan 11, 2006
    #1
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  2. WaterWatcher

    tcsenter Guest

    The "AGP Express" slot on this model is actually an AGP connector
    attached to the PCI bus, so the performance is limited to exactly what
    a PCI graphics card would yield. ECS doesn't do a good enough job of
    disclosing this.
     
    tcsenter, Jan 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. WaterWatcher

    Swingman Guest

    "tcsenter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The "AGP Express" slot on this model is actually an AGP connector
    > attached to the PCI bus, so the performance is limited to exactly what
    > a PCI graphics card would yield. ECS doesn't do a good enough job of
    > disclosing this.


    Can you post a link to some additional documentation/explanation of this?
     
    Swingman, Jan 21, 2006
    #3
  4. WaterWatcher

    tcsenter Guest

    >>Can you post a link to some additional documentation/explanation of this?<<

    Sure, here you go. VIA's product page for K8T890 Northbridge:

    http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/k8-series/k8t890/

    Notice there is no AGP bus supported on K8T890. Thus the only way to
    get AGP on this board is either to use an AGP to PCIe bridge logic
    (which the board does not have), or to custom wire an AGP connector to
    the PCI Bus. AGP is heavily derived from 32-bit parallel PCI Bus
    architecture and can be operated in PCI mode (but you lose all the AGP
    performance features).

    The same AGP Express design is also used on ECS boards based on Intel
    915. A discussion of this design can be found at:

    http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2074

    http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=883&page=2

    http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=0&id=1406&pg=2

    VIA has the PT880 Pro and PT880 Ultra for Intel processors, both of
    which support true AGP and PCIe graphics bus, but nothing for AMD64.
    The only AMD64 chipset with support for true AGP and PCIe graphics is
    ULi (ALi) M1695 NB + M1567 SB (e.g. Asrock 939Dual-SATA2).

    Regards,
     
    tcsenter, Jan 21, 2006
    #4
  5. WaterWatcher

    Swingman Guest

    "tcsenter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >>>Can you post a link to some additional documentation/explanation of
    >>>this?<<

    >
    > Sure, here you go. VIA's product page for K8T890 Northbridge:
    >
    > http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/k8-series/k8t890/
    >
    > Notice there is no AGP bus supported on K8T890. Thus the only way to
    > get AGP on this board is either to use an AGP to PCIe bridge logic
    > (which the board does not have), or to custom wire an AGP connector to
    > the PCI Bus. AGP is heavily derived from 32-bit parallel PCI Bus
    > architecture and can be operated in PCI mode (but you lose all the AGP
    > performance features).
    >
    > The same AGP Express design is also used on ECS boards based on Intel
    > 915. A discussion of this design can be found at:
    >
    > http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2074
    >
    > http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=883&page=2
    >
    > http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=0&id=1406&pg=2
    >
    > VIA has the PT880 Pro and PT880 Ultra for Intel processors, both of
    > which support true AGP and PCIe graphics bus, but nothing for AMD64.
    > The only AMD64 chipset with support for true AGP and PCIe graphics is
    > ULi (ALi) M1695 NB + M1567 SB (e.g. Asrock 939Dual-SATA2).


    Thanks for the details. I was considering the ECS board and would have been
    pretty ticked if I hadn't understood this AGP issue beforehand.
     
    Swingman, Jan 22, 2006
    #5
  6. WaterWatcher

    tcsenter Guest

    tcsenter, Jan 22, 2006
    #6
  7. WaterWatcher

    ruggerwubbs Guest

    Pretty sure using an incompatible graphics card will just keep th
    board from booting. I don't think you'll actually damage anything.
    (I hope!) lol

    I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw a
    ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the powe
    comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machin
    doesn't post to bios. I've swapped out the ram, and tried th
    graphics card itself in another normal agp machine, and all is well.
    It's a brand new processor and motherboard so..

    seems very likely the graphics card is the culprit. I'm gonna pick u
    a pci express card on my way home from class today. hopefully that'l
    fix the problem. (Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please.....
    :retard
     
    ruggerwubbs, Mar 10, 2006
    #7
  8. WaterWatcher

    tcsenter Guest

    >I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw an
    >ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the power
    >comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machine
    >doesn't post to bios.


    Due to the AGP Express slot design, this board can only support older
    AGP cards compatible with 3.3V. Radeon 9600 is 1.5V and cannot work,
    but older GPUs such as Radeon 9500 will work because it is compatible
    with 3.3V. This is another limitation ECS does not make clear in its
    product information.

    Notice in the AGP Express Support Chart it is mostly older GPUs:

    http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Support/k8t890-a.aspx?MenuID=95&LanID=9
     
    tcsenter, Mar 11, 2006
    #8
  9. WaterWatcher

    Slim Guest

    On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:36:00 GMT, lid (ruggerwubbs) wrote:

    >Pretty sure using an incompatible graphics card will just keep the
    >board from booting. I don't think you'll actually damage anything.
    >(I hope!) lol.
    >
    >I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw an
    >ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the power
    >comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machine
    >doesn't post to bios. I've swapped out the ram, and tried the
    >graphics card itself in another normal agp machine, and all is well.
    >It's a brand new processor and motherboard so...
    >
    >seems very likely the graphics card is the culprit. I'm gonna pick up
    >a pci express card on my way home from class today. hopefully that'll
    >fix the problem. (Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please.....)
    >:retard:



    Or if you want to use your AGP card, then buy as ASROCK
    939Dual

    http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/09/16/asrock_939dual/index.html
     
    Slim, Mar 12, 2006
    #9
  10. WaterWatcher

    JimL Guest

    On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:46:18 GMT, Slim <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:36:00 GMT, lid (ruggerwubbs) wrote:
    >
    >>Pretty sure using an incompatible graphics card will just keep the
    >>board from booting. I don't think you'll actually damage anything.
    >>(I hope!) lol.
    >>
    >>I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw an
    >>ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the power
    >>comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machine
    >>doesn't post to bios. I've swapped out the ram, and tried the
    >>graphics card itself in another normal agp machine, and all is well.
    >>It's a brand new processor and motherboard so...
    >>
    >>seems very likely the graphics card is the culprit. I'm gonna pick up
    >>a pci express card on my way home from class today. hopefully that'll
    >>fix the problem. (Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please.....)
    >>:retard:

    >
    >
    >Or if you want to use your AGP card, then buy as ASROCK
    >939Dual
    >
    >http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/09/16/asrock_939dual/index.html


    That article show you take a significant performance hit, although
    the price is somewhat lower.
     
    JimL, Mar 21, 2006
    #10
  11. WaterWatcher

    tcsenter Guest

    >>That article show you take a significant performance hit,
    >>although the price is somewhat lower


    'Significant' performance hit? 'Somewhat' cheaper? Only one benchmark
    exceeded 5% difference between a mainstream/value segment board and a
    top-end enthusiast board costing at least 2.5 times more; 8.6%
    difference in Far Cry. Every other benchmark was within 3% (usually
    less), widely considered insignificant (imperceptible).

    Besides, that was a PCI-E test, not AGP. Here's a test of both AGP and
    PCI-E (also showing the Asrock is a competent overclocker):

    http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524
     
    tcsenter, Mar 21, 2006
    #11
  12. WaterWatcher

    Slim Guest

    On 21 Mar 2006 11:19:38 -0800, "tcsenter" <> wrote:

    >>>That article show you take a significant performance hit,
    >>>although the price is somewhat lower

    >
    >'Significant' performance hit? 'Somewhat' cheaper? Only one benchmark
    >exceeded 5% difference between a mainstream/value segment board and a
    >top-end enthusiast board costing at least 2.5 times more; 8.6%
    >difference in Far Cry. Every other benchmark was within 3% (usually
    >less), widely considered insignificant (imperceptible).
    >
    >Besides, that was a PCI-E test, not AGP. Here's a test of both AGP and
    >PCI-E (also showing the Asrock is a competent overclocker):
    >
    >http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524



    Thank you....my whole point was that the K8T890-A has compatibility
    problems with many AGP cards and doesn't do full AGP speed.
    The ASROCK is really the only choice if you want to continue
    using your AGP, particularly if you have a high end card like a
    Geforce 6800 AGP.
     
    Slim, Mar 23, 2006
    #12
  13. WaterWatcher

    JimL Guest

    On 21 Mar 2006 11:19:38 -0800, "tcsenter" <> wrote:

    >>>That article show you take a significant performance hit,
    >>>although the price is somewhat lower

    >
    >'Significant' performance hit? 'Somewhat' cheaper? Only one benchmark
    >exceeded 5% difference between a mainstream/value segment board and a
    >top-end enthusiast board costing at least 2.5 times more; 8.6%
    >difference in Far Cry. Every other benchmark was within 3% (usually
    >less), widely considered insignificant (imperceptible).
    >
    >Besides, that was a PCI-E test, not AGP. Here's a test of both AGP and
    >PCI-E (also showing the Asrock is a competent overclocker):
    >
    >http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524


    Hey.

    How about this Asrock board?

    939SLI32-ESATA2
     
    JimL, Apr 2, 2006
    #13
  14. WaterWatcher

    tcsenter Guest

    >>How about this Asrock board? 939SLI32-ESATA2<<

    How about it? Looks like another outstanding value solution from
    Asrock.

    I wonder how long before NVIDIA pulls these seriously competitive ULI
    (ALI) chips or jacks the price up?
     
    tcsenter, Apr 4, 2006
    #14
  15. WaterWatcher

    twright Guest

    Arrgh! I found this post right after I purchased the ECS online.

    The ECS site gives an impression that it is backward compatible with
    (all)AGP cards until I downloaded the manual, and sure 'nuff, the
    card I want to use in it isn't listed. I want to upgrade my wife's
    computer with one of my old Athlon 64 chips - she has an AGP nVidia
    6800GT. I suspect this card would not have worked at all on this
    board. But I also wanted a value board that will be able to support
    my PCIe 7900GT whenever I get a chance to upgrade and give her a
    handmedown.

    It may have been too late to cancel, but I'll just refuse delivery if
    it actually ships.

    I went with the recommendation above and purchased the ASRock mboard
    instead from Newegg. Will give an update once I receive it.

    Thanks for the post!

    Tom
     
    twright, Nov 15, 2006
    #15
  16. WaterWatcher

    SUNL IS JUNK Guest

    On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 00:23:55 -0000, lid (twright) wrote:

    >Arrgh! I found this post right after I purchased the ECS online.
    >


    >I went with the recommendation above and purchased the ASRock mboard
    >instead from Newegg. Will give an update once I receive it.
    >
    >Thanks for the post!
    >


    I was in the same dilemna.....I had a Geforce 6800 AGP and wanted
    to upgrade my AMD 2800 system. I went with the ASROCK Dual939
    and AMD 4200 64 chip from Newegg and it works great with my AGP card
     
    SUNL IS JUNK, Nov 18, 2006
    #16
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