1. This forum section is a read-only archive which contains old newsgroup posts. If you wish to post a query, please do so in one of our main forum sections (here). This way you will get a faster, better response from the members on Motherboard Point.

Error: INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Bob, May 8, 2005.

  1. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I used Drive Image Pro to restore a disaster recovery archive of my
    primary partition to the boot HD. Then when I tried to boot from it, I
    got a blue screen with the error:

    INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD

    I had to use Win2K "Upgrade Repair" to fix it.

    Why did I get that error?


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 8, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bob

    Rod Speed Guest

    Bob <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I used Drive Image Pro to restore a disaster recovery
    > archive of my primary partition to the boot HD.


    Why did you need to do that ?

    > Then when I tried to boot from it,
    > I got a blue screen with the error:


    > INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD


    > I had to use Win2K "Upgrade Repair" to fix it.


    > Why did I get that error?


    Hard to say when you dont say much about the specifics.

    Most likely you attempted to restore the partition
    on a different system to the one it was created on.

    The NT/2K/XP family cant be as easily moved between different
    systems, particularly motherboards, as the Win9x and ME family.
    Rod Speed, May 8, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Mon, 9 May 2005 05:55:31 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >> I used Drive Image Pro to restore a disaster recovery
    >> archive of my primary partition to the boot HD.


    >Why did you need to do that ?


    The primary was corrupted. If I did not have the archive, I would have
    had to rebuild Win2K from scratch.

    I had the Win2K installation repartition it and reformat it. Then I
    installed Win2K and it booted just fine. So I restored the archive
    with Drive Image Pro and that is when I had the problems.

    The archive was built using DIP.

    >> Then when I tried to boot from it,
    >> I got a blue screen with the error:
    >> INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD
    >> I had to use Win2K "Upgrade Repair" to fix it.
    >> Why did I get that error?


    >Hard to say when you dont say much about the specifics.


    What specifics do you need?

    >Most likely you attempt to restore the partition
    >on a different system to the one it was created on.


    Same machine.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Bob

    Rod Speed Guest

    Bob <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rod Speed <> wrote


    >>> I used Drive Image Pro to restore a disaster recovery
    >>> archive of my primary partition to the boot HD.


    >> Why did you need to do that ?


    > The primary was corrupted. If I did not have the archive,
    > I would have had to rebuild Win2K from scratch.


    OK, I was basically asking if you were replacing a
    dead drive or moving that install to a different PC etc.

    > I had the Win2K installation repartition it and reformat it. Then I
    > installed Win2K and it booted just fine. So I restored the archive
    > with Drive Image Pro and that is when I had the problems.


    > The archive was built using DIP.


    >>> Then when I tried to boot from it,
    >>> I got a blue screen with the error:
    >>> INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD


    More likely it said "inaccessible boot device"

    >>> I had to use Win2K "Upgrade Repair" to fix it.
    >>> Why did I get that error?


    >> Hard to say when you dont say much about the specifics.


    > What specifics do you need?


    Thats enough now.

    >> Most likely you attempt to restore the partition
    >> on a different system to the one it was created on.


    > Same machine.


    Basically that is a rather general error message that
    indicates that 2K couldnt see what it expected to see
    on the boot drive. That could be because what produced
    the original corruption has corrupted the restore as well,
    or because the image was done of a corrupted drive etc.

    I'd run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics
    on the drive to check if its dying etc first.
    Rod Speed, May 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Mon, 9 May 2005 14:17:14 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >OK, I was basically asking if you were replacing a
    >dead drive or moving that install to a different PC etc.


    I have a backup disk in a removeable drive bay that I use to create a
    disaster recovery archive using Drive Image Pro using the Disk to Disk
    copy method. When dirt in the power supply(*) caused the machine to
    act erratic, it corrupted my boot disk so I had to recover from the
    archive.

    I verified that the archive disk was a "primary" partition. Then I
    restored the archive to the boot disk, but I got the boot record
    error.

    I repartitioned and formatted the failed boot drive using Win2K
    installation CD, and it booted Win2K properly. I then restored the
    archive to it again.

    After the restoration DIP reported that the newly-created boot disk
    was a "primary" partition that was "active". It should have booted
    properly. But I got the same error again.

    Then I used Win2K installation CD to do an "Upgrade Repair", which
    worked to make the drive bootable again.

    >>>> I got a blue screen with the error:
    >>>> INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD


    >More likely it said "inaccessible boot device"


    OK.

    >Basically that is a rather general error message that
    >indicates that 2K couldn't see what it expected to see
    >on the boot drive.


    How could DIP have changed the boot record.

    >That could be because what produced
    >the original corruption has corrupted the restore as well,


    After I used Win2K installation to perform an "Upgrade Repair" it
    worked fine.

    >or because the image was done of a corrupted drive etc.


    The copy was done a week earlier from the boot disk which was OK.

    >I'd run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics
    >on the drive to check if its dying etc first.


    My mainboard supports S.M.A.R.T. technology. I have no reason to
    believe that either drive is dying. I may just low-level format the
    disks to make sure - it has been a while.

    I do not like it when things like this happen that should not happen.
    I have restored like this before and did not have a problem.

    (*) I try to keep the machine clean but when the weather turns muggy,
    the slightest dirt gets conductive and starts screwing up. The weather
    turned muggy the day this happened. "Muggy" along the Gulf Coast means
    the dew point is 70F or higher. Once I blew all the dust out of the
    power supply and off the main board - and ran the air conditioner to
    lower the dew point inside the house - the machine came back alive so
    I was able to restore the boot disk. That's when I ran into this boot
    record problem.

    If you can think of anything, please comment. Thanks for your
    assistance.




    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Bob

    Rod Speed Guest

    Bob <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rod Speed <> wrote


    >> OK, I was basically asking if you were replacing a
    >> dead drive or moving that install to a different PC etc.


    > I have a backup disk in a removeable drive bay that
    > I use to create a disaster recovery archive using Drive
    > Image Pro using the Disk to Disk copy method.


    OK, that's likely the problem, using the Disk to Disk copy method.

    > When dirt in the power supply(*) caused the machine to act erratic,


    Thats unlikely.

    > it corrupted my boot disk so I had to recover from the archive.


    > I verified that the archive disk was a "primary"
    > partition. Then I restored the archive to the
    > boot disk, but I got the boot record error.


    > I repartitioned and formatted the failed boot drive
    > using Win2K installation CD, and it booted Win2K
    > properly. I then restored the archive to it again.


    > After the restoration DIP reported that the newly-created
    > boot disk was a "primary" partition that was "active". It
    > should have booted properly. But I got the same error again.


    There's more than just primary and active involved
    with a bootable device with the NT/2K/XP family.

    > Then I used Win2K installation CD to do an "Upgrade
    > Repair", which worked to make the drive bootable again.


    Thats the evidence that the Drive Image Pro Disk to Disk
    copy method isnt working properly in that specific situation.

    You'd really have to carefully test the possibilitys, like
    seeing what happens if the drive used for the backup
    isnt in a carrier to see if that is the problem. The other
    possibility is that whatever caused the original corruption
    is also preventing the the Drive Image Pro the Disk to
    Disk copy method from completely restoring the backup.
    Its quite possible its just some quirk of the the Drive
    Image Pro the Disk to Disk copy method too.

    I'd personally try True Image in that situation and see if
    that gets the same result etc. And wiping the boot device
    first, to see if either restores everything necessary.

    >>>>> I got a blue screen with the error:
    >>>>> INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD


    >> More likely it said "inaccessible boot device"


    > OK.


    >> Basically that is a rather general error
    >> message that indicates that 2K couldn't
    >> see what it expected to see on the boot drive.


    > How could DIP have changed the boot record.


    Quite a bit of what the NT/2K/XP family
    uses to boot a device is in what DIP
    restored from the drive in the carrier.

    >> That could be because what produced the original
    >> corruption has corrupted the restore as well,


    > After I used Win2K installation to perform
    > an "Upgrade Repair" it worked fine.


    Yeah, but that may just be because it uses the
    drive differently when you clearly do have a fault
    which caused it to get corrupted in the first place.

    >> or because the image was done of a corrupted drive etc.


    > The copy was done a week earlier from the boot disk which was OK.


    >> I'd run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics
    >> on the drive to check if its dying etc first.


    > My mainboard supports S.M.A.R.T. technology.
    > I have no reason to believe that either drive is dying.


    You do know that there is a problem somewhere,
    something corrupted the drive in the first place.

    > I may just low-level format the disks
    > to make sure - it has been a while.


    Thats very unlikely to help.

    > I do not like it when things like this happen that should not happen.


    Sure, I dont either, and test it carefully to work out why it happened.

    > I have restored like this before and did not have a problem.


    That may just be because whatever DIP doesnt restore properly
    wasnt affected then, but did get screwed by the corruption.

    The proof of that possibility would be to wipe the boot device
    completely and see if the restore using DIP makes it bootable again.

    > (*) I try to keep the machine clean


    That isnt necessary.

    > but when the weather turns muggy, the slightest
    > dirt gets conductive and starts screwing up.


    That shouldnt be happening. You
    must have a fault there somewhere.

    > The weather turned muggy the day this happened.
    > "Muggy" along the Gulf Coast means the dew point
    > is 70F or higher. Once I blew all the dust out of the
    > power supply and off the main board - and ran the air
    > conditioner to lower the dew point inside the house


    And you let everything cool down in the process too.

    > - the machine came back alive so I was able to restore the
    > boot disk. That's when I ran into this boot record problem.


    Most likely because DIP isnt restoring everything.

    > If you can think of anything, please comment.
    > Thanks for your assistance.
    Rod Speed, May 9, 2005
    #6
  7. Bob

    Rod Speed Guest

    Have a look at the boot.ini in the backup on the drive in the carrier
    and on the boot device, you may find that that's what is not being
    configured correctly when the original boot.ini is corrupted by the fault.
    http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/editbini.htm

    "Rod Speed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Bob <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Rod Speed <> wrote

    >
    >>> OK, I was basically asking if you were replacing a
    >>> dead drive or moving that install to a different PC etc.

    >
    >> I have a backup disk in a removeable drive bay that
    >> I use to create a disaster recovery archive using Drive
    >> Image Pro using the Disk to Disk copy method.

    >
    > OK, that's likely the problem, using the Disk to Disk copy method.
    >
    >> When dirt in the power supply(*) caused the machine to act erratic,

    >
    > Thats unlikely.
    >
    >> it corrupted my boot disk so I had to recover from the archive.

    >
    >> I verified that the archive disk was a "primary"
    >> partition. Then I restored the archive to the
    >> boot disk, but I got the boot record error.

    >
    >> I repartitioned and formatted the failed boot drive
    >> using Win2K installation CD, and it booted Win2K
    >> properly. I then restored the archive to it again.

    >
    >> After the restoration DIP reported that the newly-created
    >> boot disk was a "primary" partition that was "active". It
    >> should have booted properly. But I got the same error again.

    >
    > There's more than just primary and active involved
    > with a bootable device with the NT/2K/XP family.
    >
    >> Then I used Win2K installation CD to do an "Upgrade
    >> Repair", which worked to make the drive bootable again.

    >
    > Thats the evidence that the Drive Image Pro Disk to Disk
    > copy method isnt working properly in that specific situation.
    >
    > You'd really have to carefully test the possibilitys, like
    > seeing what happens if the drive used for the backup
    > isnt in a carrier to see if that is the problem. The other
    > possibility is that whatever caused the original corruption
    > is also preventing the the Drive Image Pro the Disk to
    > Disk copy method from completely restoring the backup.
    > Its quite possible its just some quirk of the the Drive
    > Image Pro the Disk to Disk copy method too.
    >
    > I'd personally try True Image in that situation and see if
    > that gets the same result etc. And wiping the boot device
    > first, to see if either restores everything necessary.
    >
    >>>>>> I got a blue screen with the error:
    >>>>>> INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD

    >
    >>> More likely it said "inaccessible boot device"

    >
    >> OK.

    >
    >>> Basically that is a rather general error
    >>> message that indicates that 2K couldn't
    >>> see what it expected to see on the boot drive.

    >
    >> How could DIP have changed the boot record.

    >
    > Quite a bit of what the NT/2K/XP family
    > uses to boot a device is in what DIP
    > restored from the drive in the carrier.
    >
    >>> That could be because what produced the original
    >>> corruption has corrupted the restore as well,

    >
    >> After I used Win2K installation to perform
    >> an "Upgrade Repair" it worked fine.

    >
    > Yeah, but that may just be because it uses the
    > drive differently when you clearly do have a fault
    > which caused it to get corrupted in the first place.
    >
    >>> or because the image was done of a corrupted drive etc.

    >
    >> The copy was done a week earlier from the boot disk which was OK.

    >
    >>> I'd run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics
    >>> on the drive to check if its dying etc first.

    >
    >> My mainboard supports S.M.A.R.T. technology.
    >> I have no reason to believe that either drive is dying.

    >
    > You do know that there is a problem somewhere,
    > something corrupted the drive in the first place.
    >
    >> I may just low-level format the disks
    >> to make sure - it has been a while.

    >
    > Thats very unlikely to help.
    >
    >> I do not like it when things like this happen that should not happen.

    >
    > Sure, I dont either, and test it carefully to work out why it happened.
    >
    >> I have restored like this before and did not have a problem.

    >
    > That may just be because whatever DIP doesnt restore properly
    > wasnt affected then, but did get screwed by the corruption.
    >
    > The proof of that possibility would be to wipe the boot device
    > completely and see if the restore using DIP makes it bootable again.
    >
    >> (*) I try to keep the machine clean

    >
    > That isnt necessary.
    >
    >> but when the weather turns muggy, the slightest
    >> dirt gets conductive and starts screwing up.

    >
    > That shouldnt be happening. You
    > must have a fault there somewhere.
    >
    >> The weather turned muggy the day this happened.
    >> "Muggy" along the Gulf Coast means the dew point
    >> is 70F or higher. Once I blew all the dust out of the
    >> power supply and off the main board - and ran the air
    >> conditioner to lower the dew point inside the house

    >
    > And you let everything cool down in the process too.
    >
    >> - the machine came back alive so I was able to restore the
    >> boot disk. That's when I ran into this boot record problem.

    >
    > Most likely because DIP isnt restoring everything.
    >
    >> If you can think of anything, please comment.
    >> Thanks for your assistance.

    >
    >
    Rod Speed, May 9, 2005
    #7
  8. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:43:37 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >Have a look at the boot.ini in the backup on the drive in the carrier
    >and on the boot device, you may find that that's what is not being
    >configured correctly when the original boot.ini is corrupted by the fault.
    >http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/editbini.htm



    boot.ini for current boot disk (C:)
    [" on the boot device"]

    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    Professional" /fastdetect

    ===

    boot.ini for old archive disk
    ["in the backup on the drive in the carrier"]

    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    Professional" /fastdetect



    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 9, 2005
    #8
  9. Bob

    Rod Speed Guest

    OK, its clearly not that.

    Bob <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rod Speed <> wrote


    >> Have a look at the boot.ini in the backup on the drive in the carrier
    >> and on the boot device, you may find that that's what is not being
    >> configured correctly when the original boot.ini is corrupted by the fault.
    >> http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/editbini.htm


    > boot.ini for current boot disk (C:)
    > [" on the boot device"]
    >
    > [boot loader]
    > timeout=30
    > default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT
    > [operating systems]
    > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    > Professional" /fastdetect
    >
    > ===
    >
    > boot.ini for old archive disk
    > ["in the backup on the drive in the carrier"]
    >
    > [boot loader]
    > timeout=30
    > default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT
    > [operating systems]
    > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    > Professional" /fastdetect
    Rod Speed, May 9, 2005
    #9
  10. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:23:18 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >OK, that's likely the problem, using the Disk to Disk copy method.


    I have no reason to suspect Drive Image Pro since I have been using it
    for years and it has not caused any problems.

    Why would DIP contaminate the boot record on a target disk cloned from
    a source disk that booted successfully? Something else is going on.

    >> When dirt in the power supply(*) caused the machine to act erratic,


    >Thats unlikely.


    You do not know all the facts. Consider this:

    * The memory report on POST was wrong. I have 3 128 MB sticks in yet
    the POST reported only 2 sticks.

    * The mouse cursor was not responding properly and when it did come
    back it would jump all over the place. Finally it stopped working
    altogether, even when I booted into DIP using Caldera DOS.

    * A couple of my INI files for applications like the firewall and the
    proxy filter became corrupted and lots of information was lost.

    On the other hand here is what I observed:

    * S.M.A.R.T. from both the BIOS and from Norton did not report any
    disk problems.

    * Except for the problems stated above, the system worked properly.
    When the mouse quit I had to learn how to use the keyboard to
    navigate, which is really fun. HA! I still do not know how to invoke a
    right click - and I hope I never have to learn.

    * After reinstalling Win2K on the "corrupted" boot disk, it worked
    just fine.

    * After restoring to the boot disk, and overcoming the boot record
    problem by using Win2K Upgrade Repair, it worked just fine. I am using
    it now and I do not detect *any* problems.

    * When I blew dry compressed air into the power supply it looked like
    a lifetime of crap came out. I can't believe we overlooked the PS when
    we periodically cleaned the MB.

    >There's more than just primary and active involved
    >with a bootable device with the NT/2K/XP family.


    What could be relevant in this case? When I built the DIP archive I
    told it to verify writes. No problems were reported.

    >> Then I used Win2K installation CD to do an "Upgrade
    >> Repair", which worked to make the drive bootable again.


    >Thats the evidence that the Drive Image Pro Disk to Disk
    >copy method isnt working properly in that specific situation.


    I have used it successfully in the past and in this instance I have no
    evidence that it failed.

    >You'd really have to carefully test the possibilitys, like
    >seeing what happens if the drive used for the backup
    >isnt in a carrier to see if that is the problem.


    Carrier of what?

    >The other possibility is that whatever caused the original corruption
    >is also preventing the the Drive Image Pro the Disk to
    >Disk copy method from completely restoring the backup.


    If that is the case then why did DIP not report a problem?

    >Its quite possible its just some quirk of the the Drive
    >Image Pro the Disk to Disk copy method too.


    Again I mention that I have never had this problem and I have been
    backing up my boot disk on a monthly basis for 5 years now. 60 backups
    and no problems until now.

    >I'd personally try True Image in that situation and see if
    >that gets the same result etc. And wiping the boot device
    >first, to see if either restores everything necessary.


    I opened another thread about the Enermax backup device but no one has
    responded. I am considering a new way of creating disaster recovery
    backups. I do not like this DIP method - it's so primitive. I mean who
    boots to DOS anymore (and I am an old DOS assembly hack).

    >> How could DIP have changed the boot record.


    >Quite a bit of what the NT/2K/XP family
    >uses to boot a device is in what DIP
    >restored from the drive in the carrier.


    Then there should have been no problem. I never had a problem like
    this before.

    >> After I used Win2K installation to perform
    >> an "Upgrade Repair" it worked fine.


    >Yeah, but that may just be because it uses the
    >drive differently when you clearly do have a fault
    >which caused it to get corrupted in the first place.


    The cause of the corruption was secondary to a flaky system caused by
    humid dust in the power supply. Once I cleaned it the system has not
    caused any problems.

    >You do know that there is a problem somewhere,
    >something corrupted the drive in the first place.


    A flaky PS is my best guess.

    I have a motherboard monitor utility that I have been watching the
    votages with and so far none of them has gone out of range.

    Many years ago I had a 286 system that would crap out when the PS got
    the least bit dirty. I had to blow it out all the time and then the
    machine would work. So I am not the least bit surprised a filthy PS
    caused me the flaky problems I experienced.

    But that is not the issue. Once the PS was cleaned the system showed
    no problems. What did happen was that I could not boot from a restored
    archive on my boot disk. That is the real issue here.

    >That may just be because whatever DIP doesnt restore properly
    >wasnt affected then, but did get screwed by the corruption.


    I made the archive a week before any corruption occurred.

    >The proof of that possibility would be to wipe the boot device
    >completely and see if the restore using DIP makes it bootable again.


    I am going to low-level format all my disks before I implement any new
    RAID box.

    >> (*) I try to keep the machine clean


    >That isnt necessary.


    We have a high humidity problem in Houston, so I would not overlook
    that. If you do not run a/c your house will mildew. The home insurers
    have dropped mildew protection because it has gotten bad even for
    people who have a/c.

    >> but when the weather turns muggy, the slightest
    >> dirt gets conductive and starts screwing up.


    >That shouldnt be happening.


    You don't know Houston mugginess/

    >You must have a fault there somewhere.


    I think the PS needs replacing.

    >> The weather turned muggy the day this happened.
    >> "Muggy" along the Gulf Coast means the dew point
    >> is 70F or higher. Once I blew all the dust out of the
    >> power supply and off the main board - and ran the air
    >> conditioner to lower the dew point inside the house


    >And you let everything cool down in the process too.


    Yes, heat does exacerbate the humidity/conductivity problem.

    >Most likely because DIP isnt restoring everything.


    I posted the boot.ini files from the two disks in a separate post and
    they are the same.

    I do not like the fact that Win2K can't find the boot device when it
    is the very same disk that it found before the archive was restored.

    When I did the Upgrade Repair, the Win2K installation process did
    something to the disk to enable it as a boot device.

    What did it do?


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 10, 2005
    #10
  11. Bob

    Rod Speed Guest

    Bob <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rod Speed <> wrote


    >> OK, that's likely the problem, using the Disk to Disk copy method.


    > I have no reason to suspect Drive Image Pro since I have
    > been using it for years and it has not caused any problems.


    With Win2K ? And have you been restoring from that for
    years or just doing the copy for years and have only recently
    started to restore when the boot drive got corrupted ?

    > Why would DIP contaminate the boot record on a target disk
    > cloned from a source disk that booted successfully?


    Its not necessarily 'contaminated'. Booting copys of the NT/2K/XP
    family is more complicated than with the Win9x and ME family.

    > Something else is going on.


    Maybe, depending on what you have actually been doing for years.

    >>> When dirt in the power supply(*) caused the machine to act erratic,


    >> Thats unlikely.


    > You do not know all the facts.


    I do know what fact you presented if you stated them accurately.

    Most dont get anything like that effect you claimed was the problem.

    > Consider this:


    > * The memory report on POST was wrong. I have 3
    > 128 MB sticks in yet the POST reported only 2 sticks.


    > * The mouse cursor was not responding properly and when it
    > did come back it would jump all over the place. Finally it stopped
    > working altogether, even when I booted into DIP using Caldera DOS.


    > * A couple of my INI files for applications like the firewall and the
    > proxy filter became corrupted and lots of information was lost.


    Sure, but thats evidence of a problem, not evidence
    that the problem is DIRT IN THE POWER SUPPLY.

    > On the other hand here is what I observed:


    > * S.M.A.R.T. from both the BIOS and from
    > Norton did not report any disk problems.


    Yes, it looks like its not the drive given the
    list of problems you have now presented.

    But unless you have a full SMART report like you get with
    Everest, just because the bios and Norton didnt warn you
    about the drive dying doesnt prove much at all.

    > * Except for the problems stated above, the system worked properly.


    That may well just have been a dying mouse.
    Thats not an uncommon way for mice to die,
    usually due to a failure of the cord.

    > When the mouse quit I had to learn how to use
    > the keyboard to navigate, which is really fun. HA!


    Its not that bad once you get them stuck in your head.

    > I still do not know how to invoke a right click


    The Win key.

    > - and I hope I never have to learn.


    > * After reinstalling Win2K on the "corrupted"
    > boot disk, it worked just fine.


    > * After restoring to the boot disk, and overcoming the boot
    > record problem by using Win2K Upgrade Repair, it worked
    > just fine. I am using it now and I do not detect *any* problems.


    That just shows that the original problem that corrupted the
    hard drive so that a restore was necessary is intermittent.

    > * When I blew dry compressed air into the power
    > supply it looked like a lifetime of crap came out.


    Sure, you do get quite a bit of dirt out of them, but
    that does not prove that that was the reason the
    drive got corrupted so that you needed to do a restore.

    > I can't believe we overlooked the PS
    > when we periodically cleaned the MB.


    Most dont bother to use compressed air on the PS and
    dont get the drive corruption you saw that needed a restore.

    I've never bothered to clean a PS and have never
    had that result, even in the most humid weather.

    >> There's more than just primary and active involved
    >> with a bootable device with the NT/2K/XP family.


    > What could be relevant in this case?


    The MBR and boot.ini. You've already
    checked the boot.ini and its not that.

    There's more than just those two tho, the boot phase of the
    NT/2K/XP family is surprisingly complex, particularly if you
    ever did boot the copy of 2K in the removable carrier.

    Maybe thats why the restore of that failed most
    recently, you hadnt previously booted the drive in
    the removable carrier, just copied it back using DIP.

    > When I built the DIP archive I told it to
    > verify writes. No problems were reported.


    Sure, its not likely to be corrupt in that sense.

    >>> Then I used Win2K installation CD to do an "Upgrade
    >>> Repair", which worked to make the drive bootable again.


    >> Thats the evidence that the Drive Image Pro Disk to Disk
    >> copy method isnt working properly in that specific situation.


    > I have used it successfully in the past and in
    > this instance I have no evidence that it failed.


    The evidence that something failed is that 2K refused to boot it.

    >> You'd really have to carefully test the possibilitys, like
    >> seeing what happens if the drive used for the backup
    >> isnt in a carrier to see if that is the problem.


    > Carrier of what?


    The hard drive removable carrier. You previously said

    >>> I have a backup disk in a removeable drive bay


    >> The other possibility is that whatever caused the original
    >> corruption is also preventing the the Drive Image Pro the Disk
    >> to Disk copy method from completely restoring the backup.


    > If that is the case then why did DIP not report a problem?


    Did you get it to check the restore copy after it had done that ?

    >> Its quite possible its just some quirk of the the Drive
    >> Image Pro the Disk to Disk copy method too.


    > Again I mention that I have never had this problem and I have
    > been backing up my boot disk on a monthly basis for 5 years
    > now. 60 backups and no problems until now.


    It aint the backup thats the problem, its the restore.

    How often have you needed to restore it when running 2K ?

    >> I'd personally try True Image in that situation and see if
    >> that gets the same result etc. And wiping the boot device
    >> first, to see if either restores everything necessary.


    > I opened another thread about the Enermax backup device
    > but no one has responded. I am considering a new way of
    > creating disaster recovery backups. I do not like this DIP
    > method - it's so primitive. I mean who boots to DOS
    > anymore (and I am an old DOS assembly hack).


    True Image can do the copy at the Win level.

    And yes, the DOS approach is a dinosaur now.

    Even the True Image bootable CD doesnt use DOS,
    its linux with a full GUI if you have to use that because
    the hard drive is too corrupt to even start Win anymore.

    >>> How could DIP have changed the boot record.


    >> Quite a bit of what the NT/2K/XP family
    >> uses to boot a device is in what DIP
    >> restored from the drive in the carrier.


    > Then there should have been no problem.
    > I never had a problem like this before.


    Again, its the number of restores that matter.

    >>> After I used Win2K installation to perform
    >>> an "Upgrade Repair" it worked fine.


    >> Yeah, but that may just be because it uses the
    >> drive differently when you clearly do have a fault
    >> which caused it to get corrupted in the first place.


    > The cause of the corruption was secondary to a flaky system


    Yes.

    > caused by humid dust in the power supply.


    You dont know that and thats very unlikely indeed.

    > Once I cleaned it the system has not caused any problems.


    Doesnt explain why others arent seeing a
    problem with PSs that havent been cleaned.

    I've never bothered to clean any of mine and have
    never had a corrupted hard drive due to the PS.

    >> You do know that there is a problem somewhere,
    >> something corrupted the drive in the first place.


    > A flaky PS is my best guess.


    Very unlikely indeed for the reasons above.

    > I have a motherboard monitor utility that I have been watching
    > the votages with and so far none of them has gone out of range.


    Those arent very useful on that. I did see some voltage that
    were out of range in the motherboard monitor ute and used
    a decent Fluke multimeter with peak hold to check that and
    found that the voltages reported by the motherboard monitor
    were way out compared with what the Fluke reported.

    > Many years ago I had a 286 system that would crap
    > out when the PS got the least bit dirty. I had to blow
    > it out all the time and then the machine would work.


    I've never ever had that effect.

    You sure its not bad karma or grave dancing ?

    > So I am not the least bit surprised a filthy PS
    > caused me the flaky problems I experienced.


    Doesnt explain why others who dont bother to
    clean their PSs dont see hard drive corruption.

    > But that is not the issue.


    You dont know that either.

    > Once the PS was cleaned the system showed no problems.


    You saying that report of the memory and the mouse
    problems when away when you cleaned the PS ?

    Quite frankly I dont believe it.

    > What did happen was that I could not boot from a restored
    > archive on my boot disk. That is the real issue here.


    Yes, but you dont yet know why that happens.

    >> That may just be because whatever DIP doesnt restore properly
    >> wasnt affected then, but did get screwed by the corruption.


    > I made the archive a week before any corruption occurred.


    The problem aint making the archive, its restoring it.

    >> The proof of that possibility would be to wipe the boot device
    >> completely and see if the restore using DIP makes it bootable again.


    > I am going to low-level format all my
    > disks before I implement any new RAID box.


    You cant low level format modern drives. What the drive does
    when told to do a low level format is to write zeros thru the drive.

    >>> (*) I try to keep the machine clean


    >> That isnt necessary.


    > We have a high humidity problem in Houston,


    It aint the only place that sees high humidity.

    > so I would not overlook that. If you
    > do not run a/c your house will mildew.


    It aint the only place that sees that effect either.

    > The home insurers have dropped mildew protection because
    > it has gotten bad even for people who have a/c.


    And most in Houston dont clean their PSs
    and dont get drive corruption when they dont.

    >>> but when the weather turns muggy, the slightest
    >>> dirt gets conductive and starts screwing up.


    >> That shouldnt be happening.


    > You don't know Houston mugginess/


    Wrong again.

    >> You must have a fault there somewhere.


    > I think the PS needs replacing.


    Quite possibly. Its certainly something thats cheap to try.

    >>> The weather turned muggy the day this happened.
    >>> "Muggy" along the Gulf Coast means the dew point
    >>> is 70F or higher. Once I blew all the dust out of the
    >>> power supply and off the main board - and ran the air
    >>> conditioner to lower the dew point inside the house


    >> And you let everything cool down in the process too.


    > Yes, heat does exacerbate the humidity/conductivity problem.


    Nope, there is no

    >> Most likely because DIP isnt restoring everything.


    > I posted the boot.ini files from the two disks
    > in a separate post and they are the same.


    Sure, but there is more involved in the boot
    than just boot.ini with the NT/2K/XP family.

    > I do not like the fact that Win2K can't find the boot device when it
    > is the very same disk that it found before the archive was restored.


    It can if the restore is done properly.

    I do it all the time on the test system where I have a number
    of canned installs in image files that I restore and run fine.

    > When I did the Upgrade Repair, the Win2K installation
    > process did something to the disk to enable it as a boot device.


    > What did it do?


    It fiddles with quite a bit of stuff. The only real way to work out what
    its fiddled with is to do a snapshot and compare the before and after.
    Rod Speed, May 10, 2005
    #11
  12. Bob

    NuTCrAcKeR Guest

    if this is a bois type message, instead of a windows blue screen during boot
    .... try booting from the Win2k CD and go into the Recovery Console. You do
    this by pressing F10 when the first blue setup screen appears. Push it
    several times, pausing for a moment or two between taps.

    Once you are into the console (you need to know the local admin password for
    the installation you are going to try to repair), you can try to repair the
    MBR, using the FIXMBR command.

    Exit out of the RC, and try to boot your machine. This should prevent the
    need for the Upgrade (also called IPU for In Place Upgrade).

    - NuTs

    "Bob" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I used Drive Image Pro to restore a disaster recovery archive of my
    > primary partition to the boot HD. Then when I tried to boot from it, I
    > got a blue screen with the error:
    >
    > INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD
    >
    > I had to use Win2K "Upgrade Repair" to fix it.
    >
    > Why did I get that error?
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    > http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html
    >
    > "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    > All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    > denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    > country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    > --Hermann Goering
    NuTCrAcKeR, May 10, 2005
    #12
  13. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 12:39:25 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >> I have no reason to suspect Drive Image Pro since I have
    >> been using it for years and it has not caused any problems.


    >With Win2K ?


    Yes. It is the only OS I have used with DIP.

    >And have you been restoring from that for
    >years or just doing the copy for years and have only recently
    >started to restore when the boot drive got corrupted ?


    I restored once before without any problems.

    >But unless you have a full SMART report like you get with
    >Everest, just because the bios and Norton didnt warn you
    >about the drive dying doesnt prove much at all.


    I just got Everest Home so I will try it out.

    >That may well just have been a dying mouse.
    >Thats not an uncommon way for mice to die,
    >usually due to a failure of the cord.


    I am using the same mouse now and it has not caused *any* problems
    whatsoever.

    I tried an old mouse that was good and it did not work when I was
    having mouse problems.

    My son tried my mouse in his machine and it worked fine.

    >> When the mouse quit I had to learn how to use
    >> the keyboard to navigate, which is really fun. HA!


    >Its not that bad once you get them stuck in your head.


    I am an old DOS assembly hack from the early days of computing (like
    back in the mid 1960s). I did not know what a mouse was until PARC
    invented it and Bill Gates stole it.

    >> I still do not know how to invoke a right click


    >The Win key.


    Good to know. I thought I had pushed just about every possible one to
    get a right click.

    >That just shows that the original problem that corrupted the
    >hard drive so that a restore was necessary is intermittent.


    If my speculation about a flaky PS is correct it is possible that the
    layoff I made the previous week was contaminated and when I restored
    it Win2K got fussy.

    >Sure, you do get quite a bit of dirt out of them, but
    >that does not prove that that was the reason the
    >drive got corrupted so that you needed to do a restore.


    That was the only thing I did besides running the a/c that is
    different - and now the machine runs fine.

    >I've never bothered to clean a PS and have never
    >had that result, even in the most humid weather.


    I once had an old 286 system that had a flaky PS. That's what reminded
    me to clean this one.

    >The MBR and boot.ini. You've already
    >checked the boot.ini and its not that.


    >There's more than just those two tho, the boot phase of the
    >NT/2K/XP family is surprisingly complex, particularly if you
    >ever did boot the copy of 2K in the removable carrier.
    >
    >Maybe thats why the restore of that failed most
    >recently, you hadnt previously booted the drive in
    >the removable carrier, just copied it back using DIP.


    I suppose I could try to boot the archive disk to see what is going
    on. But until I am convinced the current system is stable, I do not
    want to touch that disk because it is the only "good" archive I have -
    even if I have to use Win2K install Upgrade Repair to get it to work
    after restoring.

    BTW, as a side question about the Upgrade Repair (aka "In-Place
    Upgrade") capability of Win2K Pro Install. Just to make sure I am
    communicating this correctly it is referenced in KB article

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;292175
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306952/EN-US/

    If I build a completely different machine, can I use Win2K In-Place
    Upgrade to make my current disk work on the new machine? From watching
    the progress screens I got the impression that Win2K Installation was
    assessing the hardware and reinstalling the drivers that were
    appropriate. If so, then it should be able to assess the new machine
    and make my current Win2K system work.

    >> When I built the DIP archive I told it to
    >> verify writes. No problems were reported.


    >Sure, its not likely to be corrupt in that sense.


    This is what frustrates me - I do not like smoke and mirrors. I am an
    embedded systems developer and I know *everything* that goes on in any
    system I design down to the last hiccup. Here we are trying to figure
    out what should be very simple but thanks to Windows it is being kept
    from us.

    >The evidence that something failed is that 2K refused to boot it.


    But what is it? If I didn't value that archive so much - albeit
    somewhat broken - I would run CHKDSK on it. That was one of the
    recommendations in the blue screen.

    >> If that is the case then why did DIP not report a problem?


    >Did you get it to check the restore copy after it had done that ?


    I did not boot from it sp I really do not know if the archive was laid
    off without any problems.

    >It aint the backup thats the problem, its the restore.


    I do not see how, but I do see that it is possible.

    >How often have you needed to restore it when running 2K ?


    Only once before and I had no problems that I can recall.

    >True Image can do the copy at the Win level.


    I will try that. I really do not like DIP - too clunky.

    >And yes, the DOS approach is a dinosaur now.


    >Again, its the number of restores that matter.


    I have never restored an archive more than once, and then only on two
    occasions - once in the past and once now.

    >> A flaky PS is my best guess.


    >Very unlikely indeed for the reasons above.


    That's good to know because if true it means my hardware is OK.

    But why would the RAM be reported incorrectly by POST and why would my
    mouse act flaky?

    >> Many years ago I had a 286 system that would crap
    >> out when the PS got the least bit dirty. I had to blow
    >> it out all the time and then the machine would work.


    >I've never ever had that effect.


    It was a cheap PS. When I finally replaced it with something decent
    the problem went away.

    >You sure its not bad karma or grave dancing ?


    Shit happens to the best of us.

    >You saying that report of the memory and the mouse
    >problems when away when you cleaned the PS ?


    Yes - and turning on the air conditioner.

    >Quite frankly I dont believe it.


    I don't either but that's what happened.

    >You cant low level format modern drives. What the drive does
    >when told to do a low level format is to write zeros thru the drive.


    I thought WD had a low-level formatter for their drives.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 10, 2005
    #13
  14. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:37:43 -0500, "NuTCrAcKeR"
    <> wrote:

    >if this is a bios type message, instead of a windows blue screen during boot


    It sure looked like a Windows message. It told you to run CHKDSK and
    to consult the Getting Started manual, among other Windows-specific
    things.

    >... try booting from the Win2k CD and go into the Recovery Console. You do
    >this by pressing F10 when the first blue setup screen appears. Push it
    >several times, pausing for a moment or two between taps.


    I believe the RC shows up as an option if you choose the first Repair
    option (not the IPU). It is the "C" option IIRC.

    >Once you are into the console (you need to know the local admin password for
    >the installation you are going to try to repair), you can try to repair the
    >MBR, using the FIXMBR command.


    >Exit out of the RC, and try to boot your machine. This should prevent the
    >need for the Upgrade (also called IPU for In Place Upgrade).


    Thanks for the heads up. I will try that if I run into this again.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 10, 2005
    #14
  15. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 12:39:25 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    Which of the above NGs do you guys hang out on. I need to trim that
    list if I have any other questions.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 10, 2005
    #15
  16. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 12:39:25 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >> I still do not know how to invoke a right click


    >The Win key.


    How do I right click on the Start Button?

    I use that to get to Explore.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 10, 2005
    #16
  17. Bob

    NuTCrAcKeR Guest

    "Bob" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:37:43 -0500, "NuTCrAcKeR"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>if this is a bios type message, instead of a windows blue screen during
    >>boot

    >
    > It sure looked like a Windows message. It told you to run CHKDSK and
    > to consult the Getting Started manual, among other Windows-specific
    > things.
    >
    >>... try booting from the Win2k CD and go into the Recovery Console. You do
    >>this by pressing F10 when the first blue setup screen appears. Push it
    >>several times, pausing for a moment or two between taps.

    >
    > I believe the RC shows up as an option if you choose the first Repair
    > option (not the IPU). It is the "C" option IIRC.
    >
    >>Once you are into the console (you need to know the local admin password
    >>for
    >>the installation you are going to try to repair), you can try to repair
    >>the
    >>MBR, using the FIXMBR command.

    >
    >>Exit out of the RC, and try to boot your machine. This should prevent the
    >>need for the Upgrade (also called IPU for In Place Upgrade).

    >
    > Thanks for the heads up. I will try that if I run into this again.
    >



    If the problem is NOT the MBR, then that message typically deals with a disk
    controller mismatch, or lack/corruption of controller driver. Once the OS
    tries to load up a controller, and the driver is hosed, or cant be found,
    that message (or "inaccessible_boot_device") is a very common message.
    Especially if the stop error is 0x0000007B.

    - NuTs
    NuTCrAcKeR, May 10, 2005
    #17
  18. Bob

    Rod Speed Guest

    Bob <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rod Speed <> wrote


    > Which of the above NGs do you guys hang out on.


    I'm reading this in csiphs

    > I need to trim that list if I have any other questions.


    Thats not a great idea, you dont know who
    is reading it in one of the groups in the list.

    There are always a lot more reading than writing.
    Rod Speed, May 10, 2005
    #18
  19. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Wed, 11 May 2005 04:06:32 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >> Which of the above NGs do you guys hang out on.


    >I'm reading this in csiphs


    >> I need to trim that list if I have any other questions.


    >Thats not a great idea, you dont know who
    >is reading it in one of the groups in the list.


    >There are always a lot more reading than writing.


    I was not talking about this thread.

    I was talking about future threads.

    Is there a recommended list of crossposts that are widely used?


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 10, 2005
    #19
  20. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On Wed, 11 May 2005 04:06:32 +1000, "Rod Speed" <>
    wrote:

    >> Which of the above NGs do you guys hang out on.


    >I'm reading this in csiphs


    Speaking of hardware NGs, which are good for recommending components
    for building a new machine?

    I could use some recommendations and caveats.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and
    denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
    country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
    --Hermann Goering
    Bob, May 10, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. anders
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    1,081
  2. Jeff D
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    360
    Jim Johnston
    Apr 30, 2004
  3. Tom Voltaggio
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    388
    B.deBurcht
    Sep 8, 2004
  4. Bob
    Replies:
    91
    Views:
    2,378
    Jeremy Boden
    May 20, 2005
  5. Bob

    Error: INACCESSIBLE BOOT RECORD

    Bob, May 8, 2005, in forum: PC Hardware
    Replies:
    92
    Views:
    1,490
    Jeremy Boden
    May 20, 2005
Loading...

Share This Page