Flash bios without CPU

Discussion in 'Asus' started by dropzone@cgocable.ca, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hi, my CPU recently fried and my P4C800 deluxe tells me: "system fail,
    CPU test", so I'm buying a new CPU on ebay. The thing is, I saw that I
    need to upgrade the bios to rev. 1016 in order to make the new CPU
    work. How can I do that now that I don't have a CPU to flash my bios?

    Is it possible to do it without CPU?

    Or will the motherboard at least let me flash the bios with the new
    CPU even if it's not sure what is the CPU?

    (the new one is a Pentium 4 Extreme edition)

    thanks

    Marco
     
    , Oct 25, 2007
    #1
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  2. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > Hi, my CPU recently fried and my P4C800 deluxe tells me: "system fail,
    > CPU test", so I'm buying a new CPU on ebay. The thing is, I saw that I
    > need to upgrade the bios to rev. 1016 in order to make the new CPU
    > work. How can I do that now that I don't have a CPU to flash my bios?
    >
    > Is it possible to do it without CPU?
    >
    > Or will the motherboard at least let me flash the bios with the new
    > CPU even if it's not sure what is the CPU?
    >
    > (the new one is a Pentium 4 Extreme edition)
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > Marco
    >


    Your options would be:

    1) Buy the cheapest processor known to be compatible with that motherboard.
    Go to support.asus.com and look in CPUSupport for the list.
    Install the cheap processor, then flash the BIOS. Remove cheap processor
    and install expensive processor.

    http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpu_support_right_master.aspx?type=1&name=P4C800 Deluxe

    2) Go to badflash.com or a similar BIOS chip seller, and order a replacement
    BIOS chip. Badflash would need to find a new blank chip of the appropriate
    size, and then they will flash it to 1016 or whatever version you specify.
    Typically companies charge $25 for a new chip.

    When the package arrives, you take a "chip puller", to remove the old
    chip from the socket. Badflash is only an option if the BIOS is socketed
    and removable. Some Gigabyte boards have the BIOS chip soldered right
    to the motherboard, and so Badflash cannot help with those. You seat
    the replacement chip with your thumb, and the following tool is only
    used for "pulling" and not "pushing".

    PLCC chip puller - or use a sharp pointed object to ease the chip out.
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062619
    http://sp1.mm-a5.yimg.com/image/3141286323 (side view of a puller)

    A tool with a sharp point, can also be used to ease the chip out,
    alternating between diagonal corners of the chip. I've pulled a ton
    of them, this way, without using the $10 tool. The proper tool helps
    prevent damage to the chip being removed (and you may not really care
    about that -- I used to reflash the removed chips, so I was careful
    with them).

    http://www.indiana.edu/~libpres/manual/tools/toolsimages/awl.jpg

    3) There is a procedure called "hot flashing", where you take the BIOS chip
    from your motherboard, and stuff it into another motherboard while the
    power is on and the other board is booted into an OS. Effectively that
    uses the second motherboard as an EEPROM flasher. A lot of things
    have to go right, for this to work.

    4) Find someone who owns an EEPROM programmer, and get them to do the flash
    for you.

    (3) and (4) are highly unlikely, and hardly worth me typing into messages
    any more. But I mention them for completeness.

    With regard to your whole premise, you got a "system failed CPU test",
    but how do you know for sure, that it isn't the motherboard that is
    fried ? That motherboard has an ICH5 family Southbridge chip, and the Southbridge
    could have gone into latchup and burned. Check the motherboard and look
    at the Southbridge for physical damage. Maybe you could try something
    like this FSB400 Celeron as a cheap test chip ?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-SL6VU-Cel...ryZ16180QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    This is what a burned ICH5 looks like.

    http://onfinite.com/libraries/179057/2ea.jpg

    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 25, 2007
    #2
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  3. Guest

    Alright, think you are right about the motherboard, another friend
    told me that, he also said to check the condensers to see if they got
    bigger (that means they fried and trashed the motherboard). Do you
    know something about it?

    I will check what you told me about the southbridge when I get home,
    but do I have to remove a heatsink to check the southbridge?

    by the way, thanks, you gave me like the most complete answer I never
    saw!

    Marco
     
    , Oct 25, 2007
    #3
  4. DaveW Guest

    You HAVE to have a CPU installed to flash the BIOS.

    --
    ---------------------
    DaveW

    ---------------------
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, my CPU recently fried and my P4C800 deluxe tells me: "system fail,
    > CPU test", so I'm buying a new CPU on ebay. The thing is, I saw that I
    > need to upgrade the bios to rev. 1016 in order to make the new CPU
    > work. How can I do that now that I don't have a CPU to flash my bios?
    >
    > Is it possible to do it without CPU?
    >
    > Or will the motherboard at least let me flash the bios with the new
    > CPU even if it's not sure what is the CPU?
    >
    > (the new one is a Pentium 4 Extreme edition)
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > Marco
    >
     
    DaveW, Oct 25, 2007
    #4
  5. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > Alright, think you are right about the motherboard, another friend
    > told me that, he also said to check the condensers to see if they got
    > bigger (that means they fried and trashed the motherboard). Do you
    > know something about it?
    >
    > I will check what you told me about the southbridge when I get home,
    > but do I have to remove a heatsink to check the southbridge?
    >
    > by the way, thanks, you gave me like the most complete answer I never
    > saw!
    >
    > Marco
    >


    I have one of those Southbridge chips on my board (P4C800-E), and it doesn't have
    a heatsink on it. I don't think the ICH5 needs one, which makes inspecting
    for the burn mark a bit easier. Usually the ICH5 is in the lower right hand
    corner of the motherboard. In my case, I can take the side off my computer
    case, and easily see it without moving any cables out of the way.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 26, 2007
    #5
  6. Acedrew Guest

    Dont worry - a number of Asus boards suffer this bug with the Post Reporter.

    Just disable it in the BIOS.

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, my CPU recently fried and my P4C800 deluxe tells me: "system fail,
    > CPU test", so I'm buying a new CPU on ebay. The thing is, I saw that I
    > need to upgrade the bios to rev. 1016 in order to make the new CPU
    > work. How can I do that now that I don't have a CPU to flash my bios?
    >
    > Is it possible to do it without CPU?
    >
    > Or will the motherboard at least let me flash the bios with the new
    > CPU even if it's not sure what is the CPU?
    >
    > (the new one is a Pentium 4 Extreme edition)
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > Marco
    >
     
    Acedrew, Oct 26, 2007
    #6
  7. Arno Wagner Guest

    Previously wrote:
    > Hi, my CPU recently fried and my P4C800 deluxe tells me: "system fail,
    > CPU test", so I'm buying a new CPU on ebay. The thing is, I saw that I
    > need to upgrade the bios to rev. 1016 in order to make the new CPU
    > work. How can I do that now that I don't have a CPU to flash my bios?


    > Is it possible to do it without CPU?


    No.

    > Or will the motherboard at least let me flash the bios with the new
    > CPU even if it's not sure what is the CPU?


    Not necessarily.

    > (the new one is a Pentium 4 Extreme edition)


    What you can try is to get a replacement BIOS chip. There
    are numerous small companies that will flash you any BIOS you
    like to a new FLASH chip for a moderate fee.

    Google should help locating one.

    Arno
     
    Arno Wagner, Oct 26, 2007
    #7
  8. Guest

    Well, you were right Paul, the motherboard is dead, There is no
    evident burns or anything with the condensers, but I took my CPU to a
    store and had it tested and it worked perfectly. So I decided to
    change my system, but now I have a new problem: I don't think my old
    power supply works with the new motherboard:
    motherboard: Asus P5KC
    Power supply: Mutant Mod reactor ATXPOW480BLU

    What I mean by not compatible is that the P8P9 connector (I don't know
    if it's still called like that, but it used to be), not the ATX, but
    the other one, has 20 connectors on the power supply and 24 on the
    motherboard. I can plug it right, but there are 4 connectors with
    nothing in it on the Motherboard. How do I know if it's safe?

    Marco
     
    , Oct 26, 2007
    #8
  9. Ghostrider Guest

    wrote:

    > Hi, my CPU recently fried and my P4C800 deluxe tells me: "system fail,
    > CPU test", so I'm buying a new CPU on ebay. The thing is, I saw that I
    > need to upgrade the bios to rev. 1016 in order to make the new CPU
    > work. How can I do that now that I don't have a CPU to flash my bios?
    >
    > Is it possible to do it without CPU?
    >
    > Or will the motherboard at least let me flash the bios with the new
    > CPU even if it's not sure what is the CPU?
    >
    > (the new one is a Pentium 4 Extreme edition)
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > Marco
    >


    Install the new CPU. It might allow the motherboard to start POST, at
    which time perform the ASUS EZ Flash update to the bios. If not sure
    about this method, read the P4C800 Motherboard User Guide.

    After bios has been updated, computer will re-start POST. Re-configure
    the bios settings at this time. Save the settings and the system should
    boot normally.
     
    Ghostrider, Oct 26, 2007
    #9
  10. Guest

    Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
     
    , Oct 26, 2007
    #10
  11. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    >


    Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    proper pins.

    Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.

    The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 26, 2007
    #11
  12. Guest

    On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!

    >
    > Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > proper pins.
    >
    > Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    >
    > The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    >
    > Paul


    Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
     
    , Oct 27, 2007
    #12
  13. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!

    >> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    >> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    >> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    >> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    >> proper pins.
    >>
    >> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    >> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    >> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    >> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    >>
    >> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    >> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    >> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    >> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    >> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    >> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    >> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    >>
    >> Paul

    >
    > Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
    >


    Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    header.

    That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    if there are two video cards in SLI.

    As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    gives me power numbers for their processors. www.amdcompare.com can be
    used for AMD processor power numbers.

    There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    individual rail ratings count too.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 27, 2007
    #13
  14. Arno Wagner Guest

    Previously wrote:
    > On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >> > Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!

    >>
    >> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    >> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    >> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    >> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    >> proper pins.
    >>
    >> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    >> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    >> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    >> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    >>
    >> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    >> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    >> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    >> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    >> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    >> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    >> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    >>
    >> Paul


    > Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?


    Very, very unlikely. The older PSUs foccussed on 3.3V and 5V
    power. The new ones put most into 12V. Get a new PSU. The
    cost of the 4 (!) adapters needed will be wasted.

    Arno
     
    Arno Wagner, Oct 27, 2007
    #14
  15. Guest

    On Oct 27, 12:47 pm, wrote:
    > On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > wrote:
    > > > Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!

    >
    > > Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > > Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > > at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > > nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > > proper pins.

    >
    > > Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > > installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > > one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > > most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.

    >
    > > The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > > connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > > for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > > needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > > the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > > and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > > when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.

    >
    > > Paul

    >
    > Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?


    Great! thanks again everyone!

    Marco
     
    , Oct 30, 2007
    #15
  16. Guest

    On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > >> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > >> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > >> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > >> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > >> proper pins.

    >
    > >> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > >> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > >> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > >> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.

    >
    > >> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > >> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > >> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > >> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > >> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > >> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > >> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.

    >
    > >> Paul

    >
    > > Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > > do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?

    >
    > Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > header.
    >
    > That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > if there are two video cards in SLI.
    >
    > As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcan be
    > used for AMD processor power numbers.
    >
    > There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > individual rail ratings count too.
    >
    > Paul


    On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > >> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > >> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > >> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > >> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > >> proper pins.

    >
    > >> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > >> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > >> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > >> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.

    >
    > >> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > >> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > >> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > >> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > >> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > >> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > >> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.

    >
    > >> Paul

    >
    > > Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > > do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?

    >
    > Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > header.
    >
    > That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > if there are two video cards in SLI.
    >
    > As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcan be
    > used for AMD processor power numbers.
    >
    > There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > individual rail ratings count too.
    >
    > Paul


    you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
    I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
    problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
    computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
    supplies I tried.

    So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
    all I needed was a new PSU.

    However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
    wich is composed of:
    Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
    two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
    Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
    Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
    Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe

    And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
    old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)

    After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
    store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
    450W with these voltage outputs:
    +3.3V: 30A
    +5V: 45A
    +12V1: 17A
    And these current outputs:
    +12V2: 16A
    -12V: 1A
    +5Vsb: 2.5A
    But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
    "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
    memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
    Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
    motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
    Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
    Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
    telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
    processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
    There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
    anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.

    I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
    changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
    not showing any display.

    Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
    motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
    could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
    accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
    and where the manual says not to touch.

    thanks again,

    Marco
     
    , Nov 8, 2007
    #16
  17. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    >>>> proper pins.
    >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    >>>> Paul
    >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?

    >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    >> header.
    >>
    >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
    >>
    >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcan be
    >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
    >>
    >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    >> individual rail ratings count too.
    >>
    >> Paul

    >
    > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    >>>> proper pins.
    >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    >>>> Paul
    >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?

    >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    >> header.
    >>
    >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
    >>
    >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcan be
    >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
    >>
    >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    >> individual rail ratings count too.
    >>
    >> Paul

    >
    > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
    > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
    > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
    > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
    > supplies I tried.
    >
    > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
    > all I needed was a new PSU.
    >
    > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
    > wich is composed of:
    > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
    > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
    > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
    > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
    > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe
    >
    > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
    > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)
    >
    > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
    > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
    > 450W with these voltage outputs:
    > +3.3V: 30A
    > +5V: 45A
    > +12V1: 17A
    > And these current outputs:
    > +12V2: 16A
    > -12V: 1A
    > +5Vsb: 2.5A
    > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
    > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
    > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
    > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
    > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
    > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
    > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
    > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
    > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
    > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
    > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.
    >
    > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
    > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
    > not showing any display.
    >
    > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
    > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
    > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
    > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
    > and where the manual says not to touch.
    >
    > thanks again,
    >
    > Marco
    >


    Return the motherboard and get another one.
    Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.

    Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
    they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
    multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
    load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
    I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
    voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
    like that for hobbyist usage.

    As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
    "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
    hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
    in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
    process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
    of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
    leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.

    Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
    contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
    rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
    to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
    to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
    household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
    kind of thing.

    To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
    good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
    it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
    stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
    about.

    And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
    example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
    how the processor is constructed.

    These are some instructions at Intel:

    http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/res...rocessor/processors/pentium-d/tech/188115.htm

    "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
    material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
    a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."

    Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
    a good job or not.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Nov 9, 2007
    #17
  18. Guest

    On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >>>> wrote:
    > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > >>>> proper pins.
    > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    > >>>> Paul
    > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
    > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > >> header.

    >
    > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.

    >
    > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
    > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.

    >
    > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > >> individual rail ratings count too.

    >
    > >> Paul

    >
    > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >>>> wrote:
    > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > >>>> proper pins.
    > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    > >>>> Paul
    > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
    > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > >> header.

    >
    > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.

    >
    > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
    > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.

    >
    > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > >> individual rail ratings count too.

    >
    > >> Paul

    >
    > > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
    > > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
    > > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
    > > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
    > > supplies I tried.

    >
    > > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
    > > all I needed was a new PSU.

    >
    > > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
    > > wich is composed of:
    > > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
    > > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
    > > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
    > > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
    > > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe

    >
    > > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
    > > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)

    >
    > > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
    > > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
    > > 450W with these voltage outputs:
    > > +3.3V: 30A
    > > +5V: 45A
    > > +12V1: 17A
    > > And these current outputs:
    > > +12V2: 16A
    > > -12V: 1A
    > > +5Vsb: 2.5A
    > > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
    > > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
    > > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
    > > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
    > > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
    > > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
    > > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
    > > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
    > > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
    > > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
    > > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.

    >
    > > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
    > > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
    > > not showing any display.

    >
    > > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
    > > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
    > > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
    > > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
    > > and where the manual says not to touch.

    >
    > > thanks again,

    >
    > > Marco

    >
    > Return the motherboard and get another one.
    > Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.
    >
    > Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
    > they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
    > multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
    > load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
    > I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
    > voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
    > like that for hobbyist usage.
    >
    > As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
    > "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
    > hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
    > in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
    > process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
    > of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
    > leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.
    >
    > Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
    > contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
    > rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
    > to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
    > to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
    > household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
    > kind of thing.
    >
    > To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
    > good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
    > it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
    > stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
    > about.
    >
    > And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
    > example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
    > how the processor is constructed.
    >
    > These are some instructions at Intel:
    >
    > http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/products/desktop...
    >
    > "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
    > material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
    > a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."
    >
    > Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
    > a good job or not.
    >
    > Paul


    Hey Paul, thanks for the advice, I've retruned my motherboard, but
    they sent it back to Asus in California so I have to wait a week or
    more to have it back (or a new one). I'll see then what's going on.

    In the meanwhile, thanks again!

    Marco
     
    , Nov 9, 2007
    #18
  19. Guest

    On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >>>> wrote:
    > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > >>>> proper pins.
    > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    > >>>> Paul
    > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
    > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > >> header.

    >
    > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.

    >
    > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
    > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.

    >
    > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > >> individual rail ratings count too.

    >
    > >> Paul

    >
    > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >> wrote:
    > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > >>>> wrote:
    > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > >>>> proper pins.
    > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    > >>>> Paul
    > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
    > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > >> header.

    >
    > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.

    >
    > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
    > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.

    >
    > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > >> individual rail ratings count too.

    >
    > >> Paul

    >
    > > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
    > > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
    > > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
    > > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
    > > supplies I tried.

    >
    > > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
    > > all I needed was a new PSU.

    >
    > > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
    > > wich is composed of:
    > > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
    > > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
    > > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
    > > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
    > > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe

    >
    > > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
    > > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)

    >
    > > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
    > > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
    > > 450W with these voltage outputs:
    > > +3.3V: 30A
    > > +5V: 45A
    > > +12V1: 17A
    > > And these current outputs:
    > > +12V2: 16A
    > > -12V: 1A
    > > +5Vsb: 2.5A
    > > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
    > > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
    > > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
    > > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
    > > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
    > > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
    > > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
    > > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
    > > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
    > > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
    > > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.

    >
    > > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
    > > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
    > > not showing any display.

    >
    > > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
    > > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
    > > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
    > > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
    > > and where the manual says not to touch.

    >
    > > thanks again,

    >
    > > Marco

    >
    > Return the motherboard and get another one.
    > Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.
    >
    > Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
    > they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
    > multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
    > load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
    > I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
    > voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
    > like that for hobbyist usage.
    >
    > As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
    > "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
    > hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
    > in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
    > process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
    > of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
    > leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.
    >
    > Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
    > contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
    > rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
    > to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
    > to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
    > household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
    > kind of thing.
    >
    > To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
    > good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
    > it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
    > stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
    > about.
    >
    > And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
    > example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
    > how the processor is constructed.
    >
    > These are some instructions at Intel:
    >
    > http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/products/desktop...
    >
    > "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
    > material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
    > a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."
    >
    > Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
    > a good job or not.
    >
    > Paul


    Hi Paul,

    I've just received my motherboard returned from the store, who got it
    from Asus RMA service. I tried putting on the CPU, the graphics and
    one memory chip and still got no display at all, absolutely nothing,
    no clue. I've been waiting for a month for my motherboard and it
    wasn't the problem.. I'm really getting tired of this. Do you have ANY
    idea at all?

    thanks

    Marco
     
    , Dec 6, 2007
    #19
  20. Guest

    On Dec 5, 11:50 pm, wrote:
    > On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > wrote:
    > > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > > >> wrote:
    > > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > > >>>> wrote:
    > > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > > >>>> proper pins.
    > > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    > > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    > > >>>> Paul
    > > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
    > > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > > >> header.

    >
    > > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.

    >
    > > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
    > > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.

    >
    > > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > > >> individual rail ratings count too.

    >
    > > >> Paul

    >
    > > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > > >> wrote:
    > > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <> wrote:
    > > >>>> wrote:
    > > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
    > > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
    > > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
    > > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
    > > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
    > > >>>> proper pins.
    > > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
    > > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
    > > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
    > > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
    > > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
    > > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
    > > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
    > > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
    > > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
    > > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
    > > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
    > > >>>> Paul
    > > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
    > > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
    > > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
    > > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
    > > >> header.

    >
    > > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
    > > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
    > > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
    > > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
    > > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.

    >
    > > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
    > > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
    > > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
    > > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
    > > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
    > > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
    > > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.

    >
    > > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
    > > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
    > > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
    > > >> individual rail ratings count too.

    >
    > > >> Paul

    >
    > > > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
    > > > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
    > > > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
    > > > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
    > > > supplies I tried.

    >
    > > > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
    > > > all I needed was a new PSU.

    >
    > > > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
    > > > wich is composed of:
    > > > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
    > > > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
    > > > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
    > > > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
    > > > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe

    >
    > > > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
    > > > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)

    >
    > > > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
    > > > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
    > > > 450W with these voltage outputs:
    > > > +3.3V: 30A
    > > > +5V: 45A
    > > > +12V1: 17A
    > > > And these current outputs:
    > > > +12V2: 16A
    > > > -12V: 1A
    > > > +5Vsb: 2.5A
    > > > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
    > > > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
    > > > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
    > > > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
    > > > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
    > > > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
    > > > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
    > > > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
    > > > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
    > > > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
    > > > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.

    >
    > > > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
    > > > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
    > > > not showing any display.

    >
    > > > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
    > > > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
    > > > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
    > > > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
    > > > and where the manual says not to touch.

    >
    > > > thanks again,

    >
    > > > Marco

    >
    > > Return the motherboard and get another one.
    > > Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.

    >
    > > Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
    > > they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
    > > multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
    > > load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
    > > I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
    > > voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
    > > like that for hobbyist usage.

    >
    > > As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
    > > "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
    > > hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
    > > in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
    > > process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
    > > of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
    > > leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.

    >
    > > Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
    > > contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
    > > rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
    > > to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
    > > to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
    > > household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
    > > kind of thing.

    >
    > > To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
    > > good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
    > > it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
    > > stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
    > > about.

    >
    > > And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
    > > example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
    > > how the processor is constructed.

    >
    > > These are some instructions at Intel:

    >
    > >http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/products/desktop...

    >
    > > "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
    > > material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
    > > a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."

    >
    > > Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
    > > a good job or not.

    >
    > > Paul

    >
    > Hi Paul,
    >
    > I've just received ...
    >
    > read more >>


    Oh and I forgot, I also tried removing the pcie video card and putting
    an old pci video card. The pc speakers are also plugged and I hear no
    beeps, and there is still no display... what the??
     
    , Dec 6, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

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