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Got a new CPU 5000+ from a 3800 AM2 chip - how to overclock?

Discussion in 'AMD Overclocking' started by daviddschool, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. daviddschool

    daviddschool Guest

    I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
    already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
    couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
    The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
    since I purchased it...

    Any help would be great.
     
    daviddschool, Jul 21, 2008
    #1
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  2. daviddschool

    daviddschool Guest

    Ok, I found the multiplier, but something weird has happened. I
    looked at the CPU-Z before I overclocked, and it was at 14X. I tried
    to set it to 15 and the system froze. After that I could not get back
    to the 14X multiplier. It only lets me use 10 and under? Is there a
    way to default this back?

    On Jul 21, 6:03 pm, daviddschool <> wrote:
    > I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
    > already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
    > couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
    > The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
    > since I purchased it...
    >
    > Any help would be great.
     
    daviddschool, Jul 21, 2008
    #2
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  3. daviddschool

    Paul Guest

    daviddschool wrote:
    > Ok, I found the multiplier, but something weird has happened. I
    > looked at the CPU-Z before I overclocked, and it was at 14X. I tried
    > to set it to 15 and the system froze. After that I could not get back
    > to the 14X multiplier. It only lets me use 10 and under? Is there a
    > way to default this back?
    >
    > On Jul 21, 6:03 pm, daviddschool <> wrote:
    >> I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
    >> already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
    >> couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
    >> The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
    >> since I purchased it...
    >>
    >> Any help would be great.

    >


    I checked a Black Edition 5000+ spec on Newegg, and it looks like
    200 x 13 = 2600MHz. You can see a similar entry here at least,
    in terms of multiplier information.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Athlon_X2_microprocessors

    It could be the problem is related to BIOS version. Have a look
    through the list here, and see if you can match your processor
    to one of the entries.

    http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-E

    To get back to sanity, you can try the "clear CMOS" procedure.
    The most important advice for that, is to remember to unplug
    the computer before doing it. That helps prevent damage to a
    couple diodes in the VCC_RTC path. (This is on the assumption
    that the FID or multiplier info, is stored in CMOS RAM and
    not somewhere else.)

    Have you tried disabling Cool N' Quiet ? It is something to
    try if you're overclocking.

    Once you're back in control, use whatever setting allows you
    to operate the machine in a stable manner. If the machine
    appears stable with that set of conditions, then you can
    try a BIOS upgrade. Don't try to upgrade the BIOS, if the
    machine is freezing or crashing.

    The user manual only mentions 5x to 11x, which seems a bit strange.
    At the time of release of the manual, the multipliers used
    by the processors, must have been higher than that.

    The BIOS download page has a warning on it, so go here and
    read all available warnings, before you attempt a flash upgrade.
    Due to the lousy BIOS release notes, it is hard to say whether
    any features of the board were fixed or not, by a particular
    release.

    http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-E

    "(Do not use EZ-Flash to flash BIOS if your BIOS version is prior to 0203.)"

    For additional info, such as overclocking and the like, try the VIP forums.

    http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=M2N-E&SLanguage=en-us

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 22, 2008
    #3
  4. daviddschool

    Paul Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > daviddschool wrote:
    >> Ok, I found the multiplier, but something weird has happened. I
    >> looked at the CPU-Z before I overclocked, and it was at 14X. I tried
    >> to set it to 15 and the system froze. After that I could not get back
    >> to the 14X multiplier. It only lets me use 10 and under? Is there a
    >> way to default this back?
    >>
    >> On Jul 21, 6:03 pm, daviddschool <> wrote:
    >>> I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
    >>> already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
    >>> couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
    >>> The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
    >>> since I purchased it...
    >>>
    >>> Any help would be great.

    >>

    >
    > I checked a Black Edition 5000+ spec on Newegg, and it looks like
    > 200 x 13 = 2600MHz. You can see a similar entry here at least,
    > in terms of multiplier information.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Athlon_X2_microprocessors
    >
    > It could be the problem is related to BIOS version. Have a look
    > through the list here, and see if you can match your processor
    > to one of the entries.
    >
    > http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-E
    >
    >
    > To get back to sanity, you can try the "clear CMOS" procedure.
    > The most important advice for that, is to remember to unplug
    > the computer before doing it. That helps prevent damage to a
    > couple diodes in the VCC_RTC path. (This is on the assumption
    > that the FID or multiplier info, is stored in CMOS RAM and
    > not somewhere else.)
    >
    > Have you tried disabling Cool N' Quiet ? It is something to
    > try if you're overclocking.
    >
    > Once you're back in control, use whatever setting allows you
    > to operate the machine in a stable manner. If the machine
    > appears stable with that set of conditions, then you can
    > try a BIOS upgrade. Don't try to upgrade the BIOS, if the
    > machine is freezing or crashing.
    >
    > The user manual only mentions 5x to 11x, which seems a bit strange.
    > At the time of release of the manual, the multipliers used
    > by the processors, must have been higher than that.
    >
    > The BIOS download page has a warning on it, so go here and
    > read all available warnings, before you attempt a flash upgrade.
    > Due to the lousy BIOS release notes, it is hard to say whether
    > any features of the board were fixed or not, by a particular
    > release.
    >
    > http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-E
    >
    > "(Do not use EZ-Flash to flash BIOS if your BIOS version is prior to
    > 0203.)"
    >
    > For additional info, such as overclocking and the like, try the VIP forums.
    >
    > http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=M2N-E&SLanguage=en-us
    >
    > HTH,
    > Paul


    Someone is running a 5000+ BE with the multiplier set to 15x here.
    Using BIOS 1202.

    http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx...board_id=1&model=M2N-E&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 22, 2008
    #4
  5. daviddschool

    Wes Newell Guest

    On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:03:58 -0700, daviddschool wrote:

    > I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
    > already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
    > couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
    > The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed since
    > I purchased it...
    >
    > Any help would be great.


    Multiplier is locked unless you have a black edition. If you want to
    overclock it, set HT multiplier to 4x, lower base ram speed 1 setting, and
    raise FSB (system bus) from 200 to 233MHz or whatever.

    --
    Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
    My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
    Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
    AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
     
    Wes Newell, Jul 22, 2008
    #5
  6. daviddschool

    daviddschool Guest

    Ok. I do have the BLACK EDITION 65W Brisbane, but finding out which
    one is problematic for me (revision G, G2?). I used AIDA32 , but it
    doesn't tell me the make of it in detail like you listed here :

    http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-E

    So I went into the BIOS and tried to find it there but couldn't
    either. So when it comes to flashing the board, I am not ready yet
    because I can't figure that part out.

    The Black 5000 X2 box says : 2.6 GHz 1 MB L2 Cache
    Aida32 say : L2 512KB (on-die, full speed)

    Now, I am looking at the BIOS and have this
    CHIPSET :
    CPU <-> MCP55 HT Speed 5X
    CPU<-> MCP55 HT width 16^ 16/

    Where would I find the HT multiplier or is that what I have found?
    The speed or the width?

    My motherboard looks like revision 0502. The person at the ASUS forum
    is using 1202 or something, the newest revision is up to 1401. So
    should I use the older one? There is also a utility that will flash
    the bios, I am wondering if I should go about it that way or just use
    the 1401?

    Ok, that is enough questions for now. I hope I have added all of the
    relevant info.







    >
    > Multiplier is locked unless you have a black edition. If you want to
    > overclock it, set HT multiplier to 4x, lower base ram speed 1 setting, and
    > raise FSB (system bus) from 200 to 233MHz or whatever.
    >
    > --
    > Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder?http://mythtv.org
    > My Tivo Experiencehttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
    > Tivo HD/S3 comparedhttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
    > AMD cpu helphttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
     
    daviddschool, Jul 22, 2008
    #6
  7. daviddschool

    Paul Guest

    daviddschool wrote:
    > Ok. I do have the BLACK EDITION 65W Brisbane, but finding out which
    > one is problematic for me (revision G, G2?). I used AIDA32 , but it
    > doesn't tell me the make of it in detail like you listed here :
    >
    > http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-E
    >
    > So I went into the BIOS and tried to find it there but couldn't
    > either. So when it comes to flashing the board, I am not ready yet
    > because I can't figure that part out.
    >
    > The Black 5000 X2 box says : 2.6 GHz 1 MB L2 Cache
    > Aida32 say : L2 512KB (on-die, full speed)
    >
    > Now, I am looking at the BIOS and have this
    > CHIPSET :
    > CPU <-> MCP55 HT Speed 5X
    > CPU<-> MCP55 HT width 16^ 16/
    >
    > Where would I find the HT multiplier or is that what I have found?
    > The speed or the width?
    >
    > My motherboard looks like revision 0502. The person at the ASUS forum
    > is using 1202 or something, the newest revision is up to 1401. So
    > should I use the older one? There is also a utility that will flash
    > the bios, I am wondering if I should go about it that way or just use
    > the 1401?
    >
    > Ok, that is enough questions for now. I hope I have added all of the
    > relevant info.



    The answer to the BIOS is simple. Go to the vip.asus.com forums. Look
    for comments about the latest BIOS versions. If the users comment that
    the latest one is not a good one, and they liked the release just before
    that one, then you know which one to select.

    The information on the CPUSupport web page is all fine and good, but
    you don't have to settle for some middle release BIOS, when there are
    later ones.

    As for flashing method -

    1) Check the manual. All the methods will be listed, such as DOS boot
    floppy plus flashing program, data floppy or USB stick plus "Ezflash"
    (a flashing program built into the BIOS), or the third method might
    be Asus Update, a Windows based program. For safety, it is best if
    you've already got the file stored on disk, before using a Windows
    based approach. And to make it easier to read the manual, download
    the PDF version from the Asus download page on support.asus.com .
    Reading the included paper copy is no fun.

    2) Check the warnings on the Asus download page for your motherboard.
    For example, if the BIOS tab says "Do not use Ezflash", then you'd be
    down to two methods. In some cases, Asus has a special download package,
    which is used on a DOS floppy, when the other methods aren't going
    to work. If you ignore the advice on the download page, some of these
    problems are guaranteed to brick the board (you end up with no valid BIOS).

    3) Of the three methods mentioned above, I rate the Windows method as
    theoretically worst, due to the fact that so much stuff is running
    in the background. Asus Update consults the web page, for some info
    about the BIOS releases, but the data file it uses, doesn't always
    match the actual files available (for my motherboard, it doesn't offer
    me the latest BIOS releases, through the Asus Update interface).

    When DOS is running, there is much less going on. And even then, a
    DOS level flash can screw up for a number of reasons. So flashing is
    not without some level of risk.

    And a floppy based method is only going to work, if the BIOS fits on
    a floppy. There are now a couple motherboard BIOS that are 2MB in size,
    and for those, you're looking at some other kind of storage solution,
    such as USB flash or some other kind of removable media.

    *******

    HT Speed 5X is the Hypertransport multiplier. CPU_input_clock times
    that multiplier, gives the HT bus clock. Say that the bus clock spec for
    a given processor is 1000MHz. Then 200x5 (the nominal value( is OK.
    If you increased the CPU input clock to 223, then you'd select
    HT_Multiplier = 4, as then 4 * 223 = 892MHz, which is less than 1000MHz
    and is OK. You don't want the HT to run significantly faster than the
    rating. (It affects bandwidth to the PCI Express video slots, but it
    isn't a big deal if it runs at 892 instead of 1000.)

    If you're changing the CPU multiplier (on a black edition say), and
    keeping the CPU_input_clock fixed at 200MHz, then the HT multiplier
    doesn't need to be adjusted. (Because 5 would still be a good value.)

    I don't know if I've got the right equation for RAM. It used to be
    something like CPU_input_clock * CPU_multiplier / memory_divider gave
    the memory speed. And the memory_divider was selected, so that the
    memory would not be run over its rated speed. (In some cases, that meant
    a DDR2-800 stick, would run at DDR2-750, as the memory_divider didn't
    have fine enough resolution to give exactly 800, and AMD didn't want
    the DDR2-800 memory running at something like DDR2-842 or whatever.)

    You can use a program like CPUZ, to observe what is happening. For
    example, here is the CPUZ tab for the CPU core. It shows 200 x 11 = 2200
    for a core.

    http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/imageview.php?image=11105

    The memory (DDR2-800 module) is running at "CPU/6" or 2200/6 or 366.7MHz.
    Times 2, that is DDR2-733, or a little slower than the rating of the module.

    http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/imageview.php?image=11105

    The Hypertransport bus speed is shown in the CPUZ report summary
    (you can generate a report while in CPUZ). (At least the screenshots
    I could find, didn't show it, but the report summary seems to.)
    So using CPUZ, when you're in Windows, you can see what has changed
    when you adjusted the BIOS. By taking small steps, you can see how
    the settings affect more than one thing or not.

    http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

    Bumping up the CPU_input_clock, increases CPU_core, HT_bus_clock,
    and memory_clock, as that clock feeds everything either
    directly or indirectly. So you could do one experiment, where
    you increase the CPU clock by 5 MHz (200 to 205 MHz) and
    look at what has changed. Then go back to 200MHz, and change the
    CPU multiplier by 1, and see what clocks changed in that case.
    That will help you understand how they work. By keeping the
    changes small, I'm hoping you wouldn't need to adjust anything
    else.

    Another thing, is the CNQ (Cool N' Quiet) setting. Maybe Wes can
    comment on what to do with that one. I'm not sure it always works
    right when you're overclocking.

    Paul

    >> Multiplier is locked unless you have a black edition. If you want to
    >> overclock it, set HT multiplier to 4x, lower base ram speed 1 setting, and
    >> raise FSB (system bus) from 200 to 233MHz or whatever.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder?http://mythtv.org
    >> My Tivo Experiencehttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
    >> Tivo HD/S3 comparedhttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
    >> AMD cpu helphttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

    >
     
    Paul, Jul 22, 2008
    #7
  8. daviddschool

    daviddschool Guest

    First off, thanks for all the time and effort in this.

    I am going to Flash the Bios using a floppy - I will have a buy one
    since I don't have one sitting around. They are getting harder and
    harder to find. I checked out the manual on how to do that as well as
    backing up the BIOS first. Thank you for that.


    > And a floppy based method is only going to work, if the BIOS fits on
    > a floppy. There are now a couple motherboard BIOS that are 2MB in size,
    > and for those, you're looking at some other kind of storage solution,
    > such as USB flash or some other kind of removable media.
    >


    Now, the hard part. I am trying to understand the multiplier.

    > *******
    > HT Speed 5X is the Hypertransport multiplier. CPU_input_clock times
    > that multiplier, gives the HT bus clock. Say that the bus clock spec for
    > a given processor is 1000MHz. Then 200x5 (the nominal value( is OK.
    > If you increased the CPU input clock to 223, then you'd select
    > HT_Multiplier = 4, as then 4 * 223 = 892MHz, which is less than 1000MHz
    > and is OK. You don't want the HT to run significantly faster than the
    > rating. (It affects bandwidth to the PCI Express video slots, but it
    > isn't a big deal if it runs at 892 instead of 1000.)


    How did you discover how many Mhz the system is running at? I checked
    CPU-Z and it doesn't seem to say. Right now my log says this :


    Processors Map
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Number of processors 1
    Number of threads 2

    Processor 0
    -- Core 0
    -- Thread 0
    -- Core 1
    -- Thread 0


    Processors Information
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Processor 1 (ID = 0)
    Number of cores 2
    Number of threads 2 (max 2)
    Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+
    Codename Brisbane
    Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
    Package Socket AM2 (940)
    CPUID F.B.2
    Extended CPUID F.6B
    Brand ID 4
    Core Stepping
    Technology 65 nm
    Core Speed 2913.5 MHz (14.5 x 200.9 MHz)
    HT Link speed 1004.6 MHz
    Stock frequency 5000 MHz
    Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
    L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
    L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte
    line size
    L2 cache 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
    FID/VID Control yes
    max FID 25.0x
    VID range 1.125V - 1.400V
    K8 Thermal sensor yes
    K8 Revision ID 6.0
    Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 0
    Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 1
    Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 2
    Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 3

    The HT link speed is 1004, but is that because I increased the CPU
    multiplier? If so it must be 200 X 5 to get that number.

    > If you're changing the CPU multiplier (on a black edition say), and
    > keeping the CPU_input_clock fixed at 200MHz, then the HT multiplier
    > doesn't need to be adjusted. (Because 5 would still be a good value.)


    The rest I will have to try and figure out because it is somewhat
    intimidating for me considering I don't want to burn out the CPU!
     
    daviddschool, Jul 24, 2008
    #8
  9. daviddschool

    Paul Guest

    daviddschool wrote:
    > First off, thanks for all the time and effort in this.
    >
    > I am going to Flash the Bios using a floppy - I will have a buy one
    > since I don't have one sitting around. They are getting harder and
    > harder to find. I checked out the manual on how to do that as well as
    > backing up the BIOS first. Thank you for that.
    >
    >
    >> And a floppy based method is only going to work, if the BIOS fits on
    >> a floppy. There are now a couple motherboard BIOS that are 2MB in size,
    >> and for those, you're looking at some other kind of storage solution,
    >> such as USB flash or some other kind of removable media.
    >>

    >
    > Now, the hard part. I am trying to understand the multiplier.
    >
    >> *******
    >> HT Speed 5X is the Hypertransport multiplier. CPU_input_clock times
    >> that multiplier, gives the HT bus clock. Say that the bus clock spec for
    >> a given processor is 1000MHz. Then 200x5 (the nominal value( is OK.
    >> If you increased the CPU input clock to 223, then you'd select
    >> HT_Multiplier = 4, as then 4 * 223 = 892MHz, which is less than 1000MHz
    >> and is OK. You don't want the HT to run significantly faster than the
    >> rating. (It affects bandwidth to the PCI Express video slots, but it
    >> isn't a big deal if it runs at 892 instead of 1000.)

    >
    > How did you discover how many Mhz the system is running at? I checked
    > CPU-Z and it doesn't seem to say. Right now my log says this :
    >
    >
    > Processors Map
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Number of processors 1
    > Number of threads 2
    >
    > Processor 0
    > -- Core 0
    > -- Thread 0
    > -- Core 1
    > -- Thread 0
    >
    >
    > Processors Information
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Processor 1 (ID = 0)
    > Number of cores 2
    > Number of threads 2 (max 2)
    > Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+
    > Codename Brisbane
    > Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
    > Package Socket AM2 (940)
    > CPUID F.B.2
    > Extended CPUID F.6B
    > Brand ID 4
    > Core Stepping
    > Technology 65 nm
    > Core Speed 2913.5 MHz (14.5 x 200.9 MHz)
    > HT Link speed 1004.6 MHz
    > Stock frequency 5000 MHz
    > Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
    > L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
    > L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte
    > line size
    > L2 cache 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
    > FID/VID Control yes
    > max FID 25.0x
    > VID range 1.125V - 1.400V
    > K8 Thermal sensor yes
    > K8 Revision ID 6.0
    > Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 0
    > Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 1
    > Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 2
    > Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 3
    >
    > The HT link speed is 1004, but is that because I increased the CPU
    > multiplier? If so it must be 200 X 5 to get that number.
    >
    >> If you're changing the CPU multiplier (on a black edition say), and
    >> keeping the CPU_input_clock fixed at 200MHz, then the HT multiplier
    >> doesn't need to be adjusted. (Because 5 would still be a good value.)

    >
    > The rest I will have to try and figure out because it is somewhat
    > intimidating for me considering I don't want to burn out the CPU!
    >


    Your CPU input clock is 200.9MHz . That is pretty close to the nominal
    value, and sometimes the odd numbers are caused by the granularity of
    the adjustments inside the clock generator chip.

    Your core is 200.9 x 14.5 = 2913.5MHz. That is the core frequency of
    the processor.

    If Cool N' Quiet was working, when the processor is idle, the multiplier
    value would drop to a lower value. The multiplier goes up to the
    maximum number, when the processor is busy. If Cool N' Quiet won't
    handle the 14.5 multiplier properly, there are also separate programs
    like RMClock which support custom settings for min and max core multiplier.

    The "stock frequency" field in the above is wrong. That is the P.R. rating
    from AMD (5000+) and is the speed an Intel P4 would have to run at, to give
    equivalent performance.

    The Hypertransport multiplier would appear to be 5x, and 200.9 * 5 = 1004.6.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 25, 2008
    #9
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