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Graphics card problems round 2 - Re: Quick Answer Needed: Computer keeps freezing after switch on.

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Ian, Jan 27, 2004.

  1. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Right, to follow up on all the other messages about my XFX Geforce
    FX5200 card in this thread (or broken thread on Google), they've sent
    the card back, saying it was okay. The following are the messages
    exchanged between myself and Propellerhead, the agent for Pine / XFX
    Force in the UK...

    ....they've been reasonably helpful to be fair, but I think this one's
    got them stumped. Note my comment to them at the end - dumbo me
    forgot to mention the TFT monitor, but the problem is a puzzling one
    all the same. To summarise, the card works, but not with my monitor.
    AND my monitor works, but not with my graphics card. The TFT
    monitor and the graphics cards are all analogue and not DVI.

    Okay, let's see the techys in here get their heads round this...

    Ian


    [your initial question...] My graphics card (PV-T34K-NT - XFX
    GeForceFX 5200 128MB DDR TV)has developed a fault in which my computer
    has been freezing as Windows (both XP and 98SE on my dual-boot system)
    has been loading (this is a progressive fault that has developed since
    a month after purchase). The fault is due to the graphics card (I`ve
    been informed it could be a memory error on the card) - my computer
    started to work normaly again after the substitution of the card with
    an alternative card. Due to the urgency of my work, I had to obtain an
    immediate replacement graphics card - I could not wait for a
    replacement to be sent to me. I now need the card either replaced or
    preferably the value of the card refunded (£69.99 in UK currency) -
    what is your retruns policy and how can I either get (preferably) a
    refund or a replacement (2nd option, as I had to purchase a
    replacement card). Many Regards, Ian A. Inman Advanced Materials
    Research Institute Ellison Building E001 Northumbria University
    Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 8ST England Tel: +44 191 227 3614 Fax: +44 191
    227 3598 e-mail:

    [XFX - 14/1/2004 15:59:46] Hi, this sort of error can be caused by
    many factors, but if you can give us your full system hardware
    specification and more details on the problem, we may be able to
    suggest possible causes and solutions. We do have a returns policy
    whereby we can products in our workshop, faulty products are repaired
    or replaced, probably, though not necessarily, with a new product. we
    do not offer refunds, only the reseller can do that. Regards Tony

    [XFX - 19/1/2004 15:1:23] Hi Ian, now not booting at all with the card
    in, ok with another. Now have a returns number for you, RM10515.
    Please despatch card to : Propellerhead Support Centre, Langdale, Flag
    Lane, Penwortham, Preston, England, PR1 9TP. Please pack correctly for
    the journey, modified or damaged itmes may be refused. Please also put
    the RMA number on the outside. Regards Tony

    [you - 19/1/2004 17:4:8] Obviously it won`t be in it`s original
    packaging (I chucked the packaging out a month after purchasing - most
    faults show by then - and prior to the fault developing - this card
    being exception to th rule), but I`ll ensure it gets there safely. I
    know where there`s a suitable box plus packing. Thanks very much, Ian

    [you - 27/1/2004 14:14:46] Okay, I`ve got the card back now - I see
    you`ve tested it and found nothing wrong. However, the error as
    described above still persists with my TFT monitor (Phillips 17"), I`m
    afraid. I have therefore conducted a few more tests of my own. 1) I
    rechecked my PC with three alternative video cards (ATI Rage Pro, ATI
    Radeon 9200SE, Geforce 4 MX440) - no problems with the display
    whatsoever. 2) I have inserted the `faulty` Geforce FX5200 card in
    another PC and found that it does work. So I have the following
    situation. a) The card works, but not with my monitor. b) The monitor
    works, but not with the card. I`m beat, can you suggest anything? Ian
    Ian, Jan 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. Ian

    Lee Blaver Guest

    Re: Graphics card problems round 2 - Re: Quick Answer Needed: Computerkeeps freezing after switch on.

    Ian wrote:
    > Right, to follow up on all the other messages about my XFX Geforce
    > FX5200 card in this thread (or broken thread on Google), they've sent
    > the card back, saying it was okay. The following are the messages
    > exchanged between myself and Propellerhead, the agent for Pine / XFX
    > Force in the UK...
    >
    > ...they've been reasonably helpful to be fair, but I think this one's
    > got them stumped. Note my comment to them at the end - dumbo me
    > forgot to mention the TFT monitor, but the problem is a puzzling one
    > all the same. To summarise, the card works, but not with my monitor.
    > AND my monitor works, but not with my graphics card. The TFT
    > monitor and the graphics cards are all analogue and not DVI.


    <snip>

    Have you deduced whether the card works with your TFT monitor, if the
    card is placed in another system and you try your monitor with that?

    Since the problem is directly related to the monitor and your system,
    then maybe the monitor is generating electrical noise
    or causing some kind of ground loop, which the other cards you tried are
    not sensitive to?

    If the card works with your monitor in another system, then the other
    system may be shielding it against the effects somehow. If you can work
    out what's different about the system it works in, with your monitor,
    you may be able to sort it :)

    Lee

    --
    To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld.com
    Lee Blaver, Jan 27, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Ian

    Rob Hemmings Guest

    "Ian" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Right, to follow up on all the other messages about my XFX Geforce
    > FX5200 card in this thread (or broken thread on Google), they've sent
    > the card back, saying it was okay. The following are the messages
    > exchanged between myself and Propellerhead, the agent for Pine / XFX
    > Force in the UK...
    >
    > ...they've been reasonably helpful to be fair, but I think this one's
    > got them stumped. Note my comment to them at the end - dumbo me
    > forgot to mention the TFT monitor, but the problem is a puzzling one
    > all the same. To summarise, the card works, but not with my monitor.
    > AND my monitor works, but not with my graphics card. The TFT
    > monitor and the graphics cards are all analogue and not DVI.


    Maybe your AGP voltage is a bit on the low side (prob. bad mobo
    or PSU)?
    You don't seem to mention which mobo you have (some are known
    to have problems), but many will allow you to monitor/change AGP
    voltage. Worth trying some monitoring software to check this, such
    as aida32 etc., but best to use one from the mobo manufacturer that's
    specific to your particular mobo. That's all I can think of, off hand.
    HTH
    --
    Rob
    Rob Hemmings, Jan 27, 2004
    #3
  4. In <>,
    Ian <> wrote:

    > To summarise, the card works, but not with my monitor.
    > AND my monitor works, but not with my graphics card. The TFT
    > monitor and the graphics cards are all analogue and not DVI.


    [Snip]

    > 2) I have inserted the `faulty` Geforce FX5200 card in
    > another PC and found that it does work. So I have the following
    > situation. a) The card works, but not with my monitor. b) The monitor
    > works, but not with the card. I`m beat, can you suggest anything? Ian


    So have you tried it in the other PC with your monitor or in your PC
    with another monitor?

    --
    My real address is in the Reply-To and includes the .nospam.
    See <http://www.realh.co.uk/contact.html> for more reliable contact addresses.
    Tony Houghton, Jan 27, 2004
    #4
  5. Ian

    TMack Guest

    "Ian" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Right, to follow up on all the other messages about my XFX Geforce
    > FX5200 card in this thread (or broken thread on Google), they've sent
    > the card back, saying it was okay. The following are the messages
    > exchanged between myself and Propellerhead, the agent for Pine / XFX
    > Force in the UK...


    SNIP!

    Will it boot into safe mode?

    Tony
    TMack, Jan 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Ian

    Ian Guest

    "TMack" <> wrote in message news:<bv6bhg$oj2oh$-berlin.de>...
    > "Ian" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Right, to follow up on all the other messages about my XFX Geforce
    > > FX5200 card in this thread (or broken thread on Google), they've sent
    > > the card back, saying it was okay. The following are the messages
    > > exchanged between myself and Propellerhead, the agent for Pine / XFX
    > > Force in the UK...

    >
    > SNIP!
    >
    > Will it boot into safe mode?
    >
    > Tony


    It will 'sometimes' boot into safe mode (98SE and XP). However, the
    screen corrupts sometimes before Windows is even reached.

    Ian
    Ian, Jan 28, 2004
    #6
  7. Ian

    Ian Guest

    <SNIP>

    To add to what I said, the alternative system I installed the XFX
    Geforce FX5200 card into, it's now done a wobbler with that as well.

    The motherboard on my home machine is a ASROCK K7S8X, with an Athlon
    2600XP 333 MHz bus processor and PC3200 400 MHz memory running at 333
    MHz (might the downclock on the memory affect things - doubt it
    myself).

    The alternative system I tried the card in is a museum piece, with an
    MS6119 BX2 motherboard, Pentium III 450MHz processor and memory
    running at only 100 MHz (and according to some around here, not
    supposed to be able to run XP, but does very well). Translated to
    English, it should take anything and the abuse it's had would make
    most machines explode into 1,000 bits.

    Ian
    Ian, Jan 28, 2004
    #7
  8. Ian

    Conor Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > <SNIP>
    >
    > To add to what I said, the alternative system I installed the XFX
    > Geforce FX5200 card into, it's now done a wobbler with that as well.
    >


    > The alternative system I tried the card in is a museum piece, with an
    > MS6119 BX2 motherboard, Pentium III 450MHz processor and memory
    > running at only 100 MHz (and according to some around here, not
    > supposed to be able to run XP, but does very well). Translated to
    > English, it should take anything and the abuse it's had would make
    > most machines explode into 1,000 bits.
    >

    Err, the second machine will kill the card as its only an AGP 2x socket
    WHICH SUPPLIES THE WRONG VOLTAGE.

    --
    Conor

    "The vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world.
    And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice."
    - George Bush
    Conor, Jan 28, 2004
    #8
  9. Ian

    TMack Guest

    "Ian" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "TMack" <> wrote in message

    news:<bv6bhg$oj2oh$-berlin.de>...
    > > "Ian" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Right, to follow up on all the other messages about my XFX Geforce
    > > > FX5200 card in this thread (or broken thread on Google), they've sent
    > > > the card back, saying it was okay. The following are the messages
    > > > exchanged between myself and Propellerhead, the agent for Pine / XFX
    > > > Force in the UK...

    > >
    > > SNIP!
    > >
    > > Will it boot into safe mode?
    > >
    > > Tony

    >
    > It will 'sometimes' boot into safe mode (98SE and XP). However, the
    > screen corrupts sometimes before Windows is even reached.


    OK - have you tried it with all other cards and peripheral removed?
    Soundcards and other devices sometimes cause problems. Has your motherboard
    bios got adjustments for AGP voltage and/or drive strength? If possible try
    upping the voltage and increasing AGP drive strength. It may also be
    possible to flash the card with a different bios from another manufacturer -
    I had to do this to get my Sapphire Radeon 9500 stable (it had entech memory
    chips unlike many other 9500s and the sapphire bios wasn't quite right for
    it). You might also find that another PSU would sort it - worked for me
    with another AGP card problem. You may also find that your motherboard has
    a bios update available - again, worth a try. If all else fails ebay it
    with a clear description of the problem - XFX say card has no faults but it
    seems to be incompatible with your system so sold without guarantee.
    Somebody will buy it and there will be no comeback if the buyer has a
    problem because it was fairly described and not guaranteed - better than the
    bin and a good possibility that it will work OK on another system.

    Good luck

    Tony
    TMack, Jan 28, 2004
    #9
  10. Ian

    Ian Guest

    "TMack" <> wrote in message
    news:bv8tgd$pmbml$-berlin.de

    >
    > "Ian" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > "TMack" <> wrote in message

    > news:<bv6bhg$oj2oh$-berlin.de>...
    > > > "Ian" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > Right, to follow up on all the other messages about my XFX Geforce
    > > > > FX5200 card in this thread (or broken thread on Google), they've sent
    > > > > the card back, saying it was okay. The following are the messages
    > > > > exchanged between myself and Propellerhead, the agent for Pine / XFX
    > > > > Force in the UK...
    > > >
    > > > SNIP!
    > > >
    > > > Will it boot into safe mode?
    > > >
    > > > Tony

    > >
    > > It will 'sometimes' boot into safe mode (98SE and XP). However, the
    > > screen corrupts sometimes before Windows is even reached.

    >
    > OK - have you tried it with all other cards and peripheral removed?
    > Soundcards and other devices sometimes cause problems. Has your motherboard
    > bios got adjustments for AGP voltage and/or drive strength? If possible try
    > upping the voltage and increasing AGP drive strength. It may also be
    > possible to flash the card with a different bios from another manufacturer -
    > I had to do this to get my Sapphire Radeon 9500 stable (it had entech memory
    > chips unlike many other 9500s and the sapphire bios wasn't quite right for
    > it). You might also find that another PSU would sort it - worked for me
    > with another AGP card problem. You may also find that your motherboard has
    > a bios update available - again, worth a try. If all else fails ebay it
    > with a clear description of the problem - XFX say card has no faults but it
    > seems to be incompatible with your system so sold without guarantee.
    > Somebody will buy it and there will be no comeback if the buyer has a
    > problem because it was fairly described and not guaranteed - better than the
    > bin and a good possibility that it will work OK on another system.
    >
    > Good luck
    >
    > Tony



    Been on the phone to XFX / Pine and subsequent to their tests, they
    just don't want to know. They seem to hinting there may be a problem
    with my motherboard (ASROCK K7S8X with an Athlon XP2600 sitting on it)
    as regards my card (their tests were done with XFX motherboards -
    hmm). The card has now been tested on two different systems with the
    same fault showing up (the Pentium III / MS 6119 board combo. making
    up the second config. does take 1.5/1.6 V cards, despite only being
    APG 2X - later revision???), thus on the face of it dismissing their
    incompatability comment. To be sure, I tested an old ATI Rage Pro,
    an XFX Gefore MX440 and my new card (Sapphire Radeon 9200 SX) on both
    without problems - XFX still won't budge.

    I've used two different power supplies (300W then 400W), so I've
    eliminated that possibility. The card is faulty, that's clear - I
    think I'm beat and it looks as though I'll have to write off the £70 I
    spent on it. XFX / Pine will not be receiving any more of my custom
    (what I really want them to do I'll not repeat).

    The replacement card is a Sapphire Radeon 9200SX card (128 MByte) and
    has given trouble free performance on my system - curiously (and this
    shouldn't happen to the degree it has), the performance of the entire
    system is now noticable better / faster than it was with the Gefore
    FX5200 card in (when it did decide to get out of bed). Then again I
    may have just got lucky with the Radeon card...

    Ian
    Ian, Jan 29, 2004
    #10
  11. Ian

    Rob Hemmings Guest

    "Ian" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    <snip>
    > The replacement card is a Sapphire Radeon 9200SX card (128 MByte) and
    > has given trouble free performance on my system - curiously (and this
    > shouldn't happen to the degree it has), the performance of the entire
    > system is now noticable better / faster than it was with the Gefore
    > FX5200 card in (when it did decide to get out of bed). Then again I
    > may have just got lucky with the Radeon card...


    Sapphire Radeons have a very good reputation - IMO they're
    the best non-ATI manufacturer and I'd pay £5 more to get a
    Sapphire branded one over any of the others, possibly barring
    certain Hercules-branded ones (9800se AIW for example.)
    --
    Rob
    Rob Hemmings, Jan 29, 2004
    #11
  12. Ian

    Lee Blaver Guest

    Re: Graphics card problems round 2 - Re: Quick Answer Needed: Computerkeeps freezing after switch on.

    Ian wrote:



    snip
    >The card is faulty, that's clear - I
    > think I'm beat and it looks as though I'll have to write off the £70 I
    > spent on it. XFX / Pine will not be receiving any more of my custom
    > (what I really want them to do I'll not repeat).


    What is the position with regard to consumer protection laws and
    component parts anyway, is it the same as for "complete" items?
    Would the card count as a complete unit in its own right?

    I'd be looking for the retailer to sort this out.
    It's too easy to give up when it's "just" £70, I reckon they assume that
    most people will not pursue things further when only small amounts are
    involved.
    The threat of Trading Standards and small claims may be enough, even if
    you don't intend perusing it :)

    Lee
    --
    To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld.com
    Lee Blaver, Jan 29, 2004
    #12
  13. Conor <> wrote in news:MPG.1a81d729165879b3989dd6
    @news.claranews.com:

    > Err, the second machine will kill the card as its only an AGP 2x socket
    > WHICH SUPPLIES THE WRONG VOLTAGE.


    AGP 2.0/3.0-only cards are keyed not to fit in older AGP 1.x sockets, so
    this isn't actually an issue.

    --
    >> Ross Tregaskis
    >> online diary @ <http://inq1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk>
    Ross Tregaskis, Jan 30, 2004
    #13
  14. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Lee Blaver <> wrote in message news:<bvb28e$qc9q6$-berlin.de>...
    > Ian wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > snip
    > >The card is faulty, that's clear - I
    > > think I'm beat and it looks as though I'll have to write off the £70 I
    > > spent on it. XFX / Pine will not be receiving any more of my custom
    > > (what I really want them to do I'll not repeat).

    >
    > What is the position with regard to consumer protection laws and
    > component parts anyway, is it the same as for "complete" items?
    > Would the card count as a complete unit in its own right?
    >
    > I'd be looking for the retailer to sort this out.
    > It's too easy to give up when it's "just" £70, I reckon they assume that
    > most people will not pursue things further when only small amounts are
    > involved.
    > The threat of Trading Standards and small claims may be enough, even if
    > you don't intend perusing it :)
    >
    > Lee



    The retailer was Maplin UK (Pilgrim Street, Newcastle upon Tyne -
    being a Mackem [Sunderland], I don't really like buying things from
    Geordies [Newcastle] anyway). I bought the card on 16th October 2003
    (or thereabouts).

    The fault as described did not show up until December. Now Maplin
    clearly state on their receipts that they will not take responsability
    for ny item after 14 days - that's bollocks, as there's the statutory
    28 period under UK law.

    However, as the fault did not show up until December, Maplin seem to
    be out of the equation (though I'm going to have a go on Monday).

    Hence I went directly to the manufacturers (or rather Pine / XFX's
    local agents in the UK, Propellorhead), who to be honest have been
    whilst not obstructive, have done the minimum necessary to help me.
    They took the card back and reported no problems.

    Again, this cannot be true, as I've had the card in two different
    configurations, one of which it refuses to work on (initially
    intermittent, now continuous) and the other where it's an intermittent
    fault.

    The bloke at Propellorhead then admitted that they only test the cards
    on XFX motherboards. Hmmmmmmmm, not good policy.

    It's not "just" £70 pounds and me being the skinflint I am, it p**ses
    me off. But I'm in the middle of a heavy period of revision
    preceeding some very big exams at the beginning of March, so this I
    can do without. I may have to give up if Maplin won't help me,
    because I simply don't have the time to pursue a small claims action
    against them.

    Ian
    Ian, Jan 31, 2004
    #14
  15. Ian

    QrizB Guest

    On 31 Jan 2004 08:43:48 -0800, (Ian) wrote:

    >The fault as described did not show up until December. Now Maplin
    >clearly state on their receipts that they will not take responsability
    >for ny item after 14 days - that's bollocks, as there's the statutory
    >28 period under UK law.


    No there isn't.

    However, the Sale of Goods Act (as amended) does allow you to claim
    for a range of faults for up to 6 years from purchase. And during the
    first 6 months it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods aren't
    faulty, rather than vice-versa.

    http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

    --
    QrizB

    I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
    be fooled.
    QrizB, Jan 31, 2004
    #15
  16. Ian

    Ian Guest

    (QrizB) wrote in message news:<>...
    > On 31 Jan 2004 08:43:48 -0800, (Ian) wrote:
    >
    > >The fault as described did not show up until December. Now Maplin
    > >clearly state on their receipts that they will not take responsability
    > >for ny item after 14 days - that's bollocks, as there's the statutory
    > >28 period under UK law.

    >
    > No there isn't.
    >
    > However, the Sale of Goods Act (as amended) does allow you to claim
    > for a range of faults for up to 6 years from purchase. And during the
    > first 6 months it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods aren't
    > faulty, rather than vice-versa.
    >
    > http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm


    Right, cheers for that - I'll dig out the receipt and nip down to
    Maplins tomorrow...

    Ian
    Ian, Feb 2, 2004
    #16
  17. Ian

    Ian Guest

    (Ian) wrote in message news:<>...
    > (QrizB) wrote in message news:<>...
    > > On 31 Jan 2004 08:43:48 -0800, (Ian) wrote:
    > >
    > > >The fault as described did not show up until December. Now Maplin
    > > >clearly state on their receipts that they will not take responsability
    > > >for ny item after 14 days - that's bollocks, as there's the statutory
    > > >28 period under UK law.

    > >
    > > No there isn't.
    > >
    > > However, the Sale of Goods Act (as amended) does allow you to claim
    > > for a range of faults for up to 6 years from purchase. And during the
    > > first 6 months it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods aren't
    > > faulty, rather than vice-versa.
    > >
    > > http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

    >
    > Right, cheers for that - I'll dig out the receipt and nip down to
    > Maplins tomorrow...
    >
    > Ian


    Back to Maplins, sent off for testing - NO FAULT!!!!!

    (So why a fault with two differnt configurations when I tested it???)

    ....anyway, back it comes, I try it and lo and behold, it works
    perfectly!!!

    Then comes the real shocker...

    The ATI / Sapphire Radeon 9200SE card I bought as a cheapo replacement
    (£44.99) stuffs the expensive Pine Geforce FX5200 card (£69.99) into
    submission, throws it around the room a bit, whacks into orbit and
    gives it another demonstration of what a fantastic graphics card it is
    when the Geforce card lands...

    For example, Radeon card, Prince of Persia perfectly playable.

    Geforce Card, jerky graphics due to lack of processing power.

    Tom's Hardware had the Geforce card as being the better and I
    genuinely though that the Geforce was the better of cards. Guess
    I've been taught a lesson not to believe everything I hear / read...

    Ian
    Ian, Feb 13, 2004
    #17
  18. Ian

    Ian Guest

    (Ian) wrote in message news:<>...
    > (QrizB) wrote in message news:<>...
    > > On 31 Jan 2004 08:43:48 -0800, (Ian) wrote:
    > >
    > > >The fault as described did not show up until December. Now Maplin
    > > >clearly state on their receipts that they will not take responsability
    > > >for ny item after 14 days - that's bollocks, as there's the statutory
    > > >28 period under UK law.

    > >
    > > No there isn't.
    > >
    > > However, the Sale of Goods Act (as amended) does allow you to claim
    > > for a range of faults for up to 6 years from purchase. And during the
    > > first 6 months it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods aren't
    > > faulty, rather than vice-versa.
    > >
    > > http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

    >
    > Right, cheers for that - I'll dig out the receipt and nip down to
    > Maplins tomorrow...
    >
    > Ian


    Back to Maplins, sent off for testing - NO FAULT!!!!!

    (So why a fault with two differnt configurations when I tested it???)

    ....anyway, back it comes, I try it and lo and behold, it works
    perfectly!!!

    Then comes the real shocker...

    The ATI / Sapphire Radeon 9200SE card I bought as a cheapo replacement
    (£44.99) stuffs the expensive Pine Geforce FX5200 card (£69.99) into
    submission, throws it around the room a bit, whacks into orbit and
    gives it another demonstration of what a fantastic graphics card it is
    when the Geforce card lands...

    For example, Radeon card, Prince of Persia perfectly playable
    (1024x768).

    Geforce Card, jerky graphics due to lack of processing power (thnk it
    needs to be dropped down to 640x480 to make it playable).

    Tom's Hardware had the Geforce card as being the better and I
    genuinely though that the Geforce was the better of cards. Guess
    I've been taught a lesson not to believe everything I hear / read...

    Ian
    Ian, Feb 13, 2004
    #18
    1. Advertising

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