1. This forum section is a read-only archive which contains old newsgroup posts. If you wish to post a query, please do so in one of our main forum sections (here). This way you will get a faster, better response from the members on Motherboard Point.

Gtx 580 stock

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by PcGAmeR22, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. PcGAmeR22

    PcGAmeR22 Guest

    Is a 700 watt power supply strong enough to run a gtx 580 ?
    i have an ocz modxstream 700 watt power suppl
     
    PcGAmeR22, Jan 5, 2012
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. PcGAmeR22

    Paul Guest

    PcGAmeR22 wrote:
    > Is a 700 watt power supply strong enough to run a gtx 580 ?
    > i have an ocz modxstream 700 watt power supply
    >
    >


    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/geforce-gtx-580_5.html#sect0

    GTX 580 264.1 watts

    12V slot power = 3 amps
    12V 2x3 plug = 6.2 amps
    12V 2x4 plug = 12.7 amps

    Slot power may come from a different current-limited 12V rail
    than the other two.

    You need to work out the power drain of your other computer components,
    to know whether the 700W is enough. My guess is, it's fine. But
    if you have something strange we don't know about (like a pump for
    water cooling, or a TEC for the CPU), then anything is possible.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 5, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. PcGAmeR22

    willbill Guest

    Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:58:27 -0500, Paul <> wrote:

    > PcGAmeR22 wrote:
    > > Is a 700 watt power supply strong enough to run a gtx 580 ?
    > > i have an ocz modxstream 700 watt power supply
    > >
    > >

    >
    > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/geforce-gtx-580_5.html#sect0
    >
    > GTX 580 264.1 watts
    >
    > 12V slot power = 3 amps
    > 12V 2x3 plug = 6.2 amps
    > 12V 2x4 plug = 12.7 amps
    >
    > Slot power may come from a different current-limited 12V rail
    > than the other two.
    >
    > You need to work out the power drain of your other computer components,
    > to know whether the 700W is enough. My guess is, it's fine. But
    > if you have something strange we don't know about (like a pump for
    > water cooling, or a TEC for the CPU), then anything is possible.
    >
    > Paul


    +1

    Bill
     
    willbill, Jan 6, 2012
    #3
  4. PcGAmeR22

    PcGAmeR22 Guest

    This is my rig
    intel dual core e7500 2.93 gh
    3 gigs of ddr3 ram
    1 cooling fan , a cpu fan of course and its heatsin
     
    PcGAmeR22, Jan 7, 2012
    #4
  5. PcGAmeR22

    Paul Guest

    PcGAmeR22 wrote:
    > This is my rig
    > intel dual core e7500 2.93 ghz
    > 3 gigs of ddr3 ram
    > 1 cooling fan , a cpu fan of course and its heatsink
    >
    >


    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/geforce-gtx-580_5.html#sect0

    GTX 580 264.1 watts

    12V slot power = 3 amps
    12V 2x3 plug = 6.2 amps
    12V 2x4 plug = 12.7 amps

    With the Modstream, those loads are likely on the same rail.

    E7500 65W (times 1/0.90 for Vcore efficiency) = 72W or 12V @ 6A
    Cooling fans 12V @ 0.5A allocated or 6W

    Hard drive 12W (12V @ 0.6A, 5V @ 1A) <--- some drives now are much less
    Optical drive 25W (12V @ 1.5A, 5V @ 1.5A) <--- measured 12V @ 1A on a drive here
    with media in the tray

    Motherboard plus RAM allocation 50W (could come from 3.3V and/or 5V rails)
    USB power from +5VSB, allocate 10W more

    Total = 264.1+72+6+12+25+50+19= 448.1W (worst case, actual *will* be less)
    On a good day, unlikely to pass ~400W. Total power looks OK.

    *******

    Now, to check current flow.

    Total 12V rail current must be allocated to the various rails
    on the supply. If the supply had one big 12V rail, you'd total
    all the currents

    (3+6.2+12.7)+6+0.5+0.6+1.5= 30.5 amps

    If the supply has 12V1 and 12V2, the CPU is on 12V2, the rest on
    12V1.

    12V1 = (3+6.2+12.7)+ 0.5+0.6+1.5= 24.5 amps
    12V2 = 6 = 6.0 amps

    This is a picture of the label on the power supply. 25A limit on 12V1.

    http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-341-018-Z05?$S640W$

    That means the 12V1 is getting close to the current limiter value
    of 25 amps. With no CD in the optical drive tray, the optical drive draws
    no 12V current (as that is a motor current). So without CD it
    is 23 amps. And that's only if the video card can be driven to
    the same state as in Xbitlabs review.

    So that's the only concern. The overall power rating is sufficient,
    but the asymmetric load on 12V is a bit of a concern. If the
    current limiter triggers on 12V1, the power supply will shut
    off and you'll have your answer (need new supply). If it
    stays running, the ~400W actual load should not be a problem
    thermally. Sometimes the supply shuts down, because a
    common heatsink in the supply is getting too hot.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 9, 2012
    #5
  6. PcGAmeR22

    PcGAmeR22 Guest

    thank you for the information
    what can i do other than buying a new psu to run that car
     
    PcGAmeR22, Jan 11, 2012
    #6
  7. PcGAmeR22

    Paul Guest

    PcGAmeR22 wrote:
    > thank you for the information
    > what can i do other than buying a new psu to run that card


    That's a good question. On the surface of it, not much.
    You're stuck with the limitation.

    *******

    Your first hint the supply isn't enough, is when there aren't
    enough PCI Express connectors on the power supply, to properly
    power the video card. That's your first hint the supply isn't
    right for the job. If the supply has one PCIe connector and you need
    two, chances are the output isn't big enough.

    Some supplies have a "massive single output". This does two
    things for you. On the positive side, you get to use all the
    current rating of the supply. For example, if the supply could
    make 12V @ 50A and your load is 30A, then there is no problem.

    +-----+
    | | +---- 12V1
    | 12V | |
    | @ |----- 50A limit -----+
    | 50A | |
    | | +---- 12V2
    +-----+

    There is at least one industry standard, that stated that no more
    than X watts should be allowed on a single output of the supply.
    The claim is, that is a safety/fire thing. If that 50A output
    is shorted or partially shorted, things could get rather warm.

    To stop that, some supplies place a current monitor on each
    output section. In your case, two shunts are placed in the
    structure for monitoring. If either shunt detects more than
    25 amps, the supply can shut off. The trip point may not be
    that precise - the thing is, to meet the rating, they don't
    want it to shut off at exactly 25 amps. It might trip at around
    30% more than that. 25 * 1.3 = 32 amps for example.

    +-----+
    | | +-- 25A limit -- 12V1 This could
    | 12V | | (monitor be your
    | @ |----- 50A limit -----+ OCP) design...
    | 50A | (indirect |
    | | thermal +-- 25A limit -- 12V2
    +-----+ limit) (monitor
    OCP

    Another way to achieve the requirement of the standard, is to
    use separate transformer and diode rectifier structures for
    12V1 and 12V2. But that is a less common solution. In that
    case, the rating on the supply label is "real" rather than
    contrived. I couldn't find a review of your exact supply
    model, so I don't know whether for sure it uses a single 50A
    circuit with limiters, or uses two 25A separate outputs. The
    separate output idea has mostly gone out of style. When they
    do this, the chassis of the power supply is a bit longer.

    +-----+
    | |
    | 12V |
    | @ |----- 25A limit ----- 12V1
    | 25A |
    | |
    +-----+
    +-----+
    | |
    | 12V |
    | @ |----- 25A limit ----- 12V2
    | 25A |
    | |
    +-----+

    So for some reason, a number of brands of supply where the
    single massive output is not current limited per output,
    they give you all the power you paid for. If current
    limiters are present, it's harder to draw that limit.
    For example, 25A for the processor side (12V2) is a very
    generous rating, when processors don't draw that much.
    It would take a server motherboard, with two sockets
    and two older generation Prescott-like processors, to
    draw that much current. If they'd made the limit a bit
    more asymmetric to begin with (like 30A, 20A) that might have
    made a bit more sense.

    And in any case, even when a supply has the label rating to
    meet the job, there is no guarantee it actually works as stated.
    With some of the cheaper brands, they take a 350W supply and
    put a 500W label on it. And you figure that out, when the
    supply "flakes out" on you and either the game exists abnormally
    (crashes) or the supply switches off on overheat.

    I'd say, give it a try. In terms of power rating, the supply
    seems to have a good power rating for the job. Two things
    could happen here. The supply might not really be rated for
    50A, and the 12V output could be "soft". In which case, you
    might hear the hard drive spin up, spin down, over and over
    again. That's a hint the voltage is weak. (You can check that
    with a multimeter for example.) But if the current limiter of
    25A on 12V1 is triggered by your 23A+ load, then you'll have
    your answer instantly.

    It's possible to mod the power supply, but I'm not even
    going to tell you how, for safety reasons. To make the
    mod, you have to be *absolutely* sure of the internal
    architecture (whether single transformer or multiple
    transformer type). It's better to just buy another one,
    than to explain to your fire insurance, what the hell you
    were doing :)

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 12, 2012
    #7
  8. PcGAmeR22

    Tom Guest

    Thanks, Paul. Love the thoroughness and clarity of your response. Now if
    we could only get the tech support folks to provide that service. I'll bet
    you Don't work tech support...... ;<)

    T2

    "Paul" <> wrote in message
    news:jemtsr$s6i$...
    > PcGAmeR22 wrote:
    >> thank you for the information what can i do other than buying a new psu
    >> to run that card

    >
    > That's a good question. On the surface of it, not much.
    > You're stuck with the limitation.
    >
    > *******
    >
    > Your first hint the supply isn't enough, is when there aren't
    > enough PCI Express connectors on the power supply, to properly
    > power the video card. That's your first hint the supply isn't
    > right for the job. If the supply has one PCIe connector and you need
    > two, chances are the output isn't big enough.
    >
    > Some supplies have a "massive single output". This does two
    > things for you. On the positive side, you get to use all the
    > current rating of the supply. For example, if the supply could
    > make 12V @ 50A and your load is 30A, then there is no problem.
    >
    > +-----+
    > | | +---- 12V1
    > | 12V | |
    > | @ |----- 50A limit -----+
    > | 50A | |
    > | | +---- 12V2
    > +-----+
    >
    > There is at least one industry standard, that stated that no more
    > than X watts should be allowed on a single output of the supply.
    > The claim is, that is a safety/fire thing. If that 50A output
    > is shorted or partially shorted, things could get rather warm.
    >
    > To stop that, some supplies place a current monitor on each
    > output section. In your case, two shunts are placed in the
    > structure for monitoring. If either shunt detects more than
    > 25 amps, the supply can shut off. The trip point may not be
    > that precise - the thing is, to meet the rating, they don't
    > want it to shut off at exactly 25 amps. It might trip at around
    > 30% more than that. 25 * 1.3 = 32 amps for example.
    >
    > +-----+
    > | | +-- 25A limit -- 12V1 This could
    > | 12V | | (monitor be your
    > | @ |----- 50A limit -----+ OCP) design...
    > | 50A | (indirect |
    > | | thermal +-- 25A limit -- 12V2
    > +-----+ limit) (monitor
    > OCP
    >
    > Another way to achieve the requirement of the standard, is to
    > use separate transformer and diode rectifier structures for
    > 12V1 and 12V2. But that is a less common solution. In that
    > case, the rating on the supply label is "real" rather than
    > contrived. I couldn't find a review of your exact supply
    > model, so I don't know whether for sure it uses a single 50A
    > circuit with limiters, or uses two 25A separate outputs. The
    > separate output idea has mostly gone out of style. When they
    > do this, the chassis of the power supply is a bit longer.
    >
    > +-----+
    > | |
    > | 12V |
    > | @ |----- 25A limit ----- 12V1
    > | 25A |
    > | |
    > +-----+
    > +-----+
    > | |
    > | 12V |
    > | @ |----- 25A limit ----- 12V2
    > | 25A |
    > | |
    > +-----+
    >
    > So for some reason, a number of brands of supply where the
    > single massive output is not current limited per output,
    > they give you all the power you paid for. If current
    > limiters are present, it's harder to draw that limit.
    > For example, 25A for the processor side (12V2) is a very
    > generous rating, when processors don't draw that much.
    > It would take a server motherboard, with two sockets
    > and two older generation Prescott-like processors, to
    > draw that much current. If they'd made the limit a bit
    > more asymmetric to begin with (like 30A, 20A) that might have
    > made a bit more sense.
    >
    > And in any case, even when a supply has the label rating to
    > meet the job, there is no guarantee it actually works as stated.
    > With some of the cheaper brands, they take a 350W supply and
    > put a 500W label on it. And you figure that out, when the
    > supply "flakes out" on you and either the game exists abnormally
    > (crashes) or the supply switches off on overheat.
    >
    > I'd say, give it a try. In terms of power rating, the supply
    > seems to have a good power rating for the job. Two things
    > could happen here. The supply might not really be rated for
    > 50A, and the 12V output could be "soft". In which case, you
    > might hear the hard drive spin up, spin down, over and over
    > again. That's a hint the voltage is weak. (You can check that
    > with a multimeter for example.) But if the current limiter of
    > 25A on 12V1 is triggered by your 23A+ load, then you'll have
    > your answer instantly.
    >
    > It's possible to mod the power supply, but I'm not even
    > going to tell you how, for safety reasons. To make the
    > mod, you have to be *absolutely* sure of the internal
    > architecture (whether single transformer or multiple
    > transformer type). It's better to just buy another one,
    > than to explain to your fire insurance, what the hell you
    > were doing :)
    >
    > Paul
     
    Tom, Jan 13, 2012
    #8
  9. PcGAmeR22

    Paul Guest

    Tom wrote:
    > Thanks, Paul. Love the thoroughness and clarity of your response. Now
    > if we could only get the tech support folks to provide that service.
    > I'll bet you Don't work tech support...... ;<)
    >
    > T2


    I wish the info was on a website somewhere. I've only
    been piecing this together from info here and there.

    For example, at one time, I used to take the 12V1 and 12V2
    thing verbatim, that when you saw that, it was two transformers
    and two separate circuits. Until I read somewhere, instead
    they were faking it with one transformer and two monitor
    circuits.

    There are a couple good power supply review sites, like
    jonnyguru, that have some of that kind of info. Some sites
    disassemble the supply, for a look at the design.

    There were only a few, truly independent output supplies. I
    remember a picture of one, with four transformers inside it,
    and the chassis was a bit longer than your average supply.
    While that might meet someone's idea of safety, it isn't
    very convenient for users. Supplies like that, you're
    highly likely to only use three of the four outputs.
    And end up paying for one of them, for nothing. The
    other issue with those kinds of supplies, is getting
    reliable info on which wires are connected to 12V3 and 12V4.
    Again, a supply review might be the only source of info
    (where the reviewer requested the info directly from the company).

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 13, 2012
    #9
  10. PcGAmeR22

    PcGAmeR22 Guest

    does the 580 require 2 pci wires
    i have 2 they came with my mod power suppl
     
    PcGAmeR22, Jan 13, 2012
    #10
  11. PcGAmeR22

    rb Guest

    PcGAmeR22;1324221 Wrote:
    > does the 580 require 2 pci wires
    > i have 2 they came with my mod power supply


    Yep... it requires a six-pin *and* eight-pin pci-e power cables
     
    rb, Jan 13, 2012
    #11
  12. PcGAmeR22

    PcGAmeR22 Guest

    I have both !
    1 6 pin power connecter
    and 1 8 pin power connecter , is that enough to cover the powe
    consumptio
     
    PcGAmeR22, Jan 13, 2012
    #12
  13. PcGAmeR22

    Paul Guest

    PcGAmeR22 wrote:
    > does the 580 require 2 pci wires
    > i have 2 they came with my mod power supply
    >
    >


    There is a 2x3 and a 2x4, for a total of two connectors, on the end.

    http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-130-587-Z05?$S640W$

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 13, 2012
    #13
  14. PcGAmeR22

    rb Guest

    It should be, but as Paul mentioned, you won't know for sure until th
    card is installed and ya fire up a game
     
    rb, Jan 13, 2012
    #14
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. pigdos
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    2,250
    First of One
    Aug 9, 2006
  2. NV55
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    533
    Beladi Nasrallah
    May 21, 2008
  3. NV55
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    330
    Beladi Nasrallah
    May 21, 2008
  4. NV55
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    617
    Miles Bader
    Jun 7, 2008
  5. NV55
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    416
    Miles Bader
    Jun 7, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page