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help- LiOn vs MiMh

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by Uncle Vinnie, Oct 17, 2010.

  1. Uncle Vinnie

    Uncle Vinnie Guest

    I have an HP N5445 laptop where the battery went bad... LiOn... 5400mah.
    Lasts about 10 minutes and dies... 99%, 98, 97, 96.. flatline...

    I use it very little and my choices seem to be LiOn 4400mah, LiOn 6600mh,
    and 6600mah NiMh.. all in the $30 - $45 range.

    The least expensive is the LiOn4400, second 6600 NiMh, and the most 6600
    LiOn...

    What would be the best option for the occasional user??

    And, I hope that if it is the NiMh, will that recharge Ok with my existing
    laptop/power supply?

    --
    Thanks & B'rgds,

    Uncle Vinnie
     
    Uncle Vinnie, Oct 17, 2010
    #1
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  2. Uncle Vinnie

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:4cbb6f73$0$20170$,
    Uncle Vinnie typed on Sun, 17 Oct 2010 17:49:38 -0400:
    > I have an HP N5445 laptop where the battery went bad... LiOn...
    > 5400mah. Lasts about 10 minutes and dies... 99%, 98, 97, 96..
    > flatline...
    > I use it very little and my choices seem to be LiOn 4400mah, LiOn
    > 6600mh, and 6600mah NiMh.. all in the $30 - $45 range.
    >
    > The least expensive is the LiOn4400, second 6600 NiMh, and the most
    > 6600 LiOn...
    >
    > What would be the best option for the occasional user??
    >
    > And, I hope that if it is the NiMh, will that recharge Ok with my
    > existing laptop/power supply?


    NiMh charging is a bit different than for lithium (LiOn). But if that
    battery is made for your model, I would say go for it. So how often do
    you use it on battery? Did you know it is usually best to leave the
    lithium battery out if you are using it on AC? As the heat from the
    laptop shortens the life of lithium. I haven't done much research
    whether this is true of NiMh as well.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 17, 2010
    #2
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  3. Uncle Vinnie

    Uncle Vinnie Guest

    Thanks for the reply and the inight! How long per day.. well, hardly..
    which is my downfall. It generally sits plugged in, and is used maybe...
    maybe once a month...

    If I use it more often and not keep it plugged in, would I have a better
    shot of a long term battery???

    BillW50 wrote:
    > In news:4cbb6f73$0$20170$,
    > Uncle Vinnie typed on Sun, 17 Oct 2010 17:49:38 -0400:
    >> I have an HP N5445 laptop where the battery went bad... LiOn...
    >> 5400mah. Lasts about 10 minutes and dies... 99%, 98, 97, 96..
    >> flatline...
    >> I use it very little and my choices seem to be LiOn 4400mah, LiOn
    >> 6600mh, and 6600mah NiMh.. all in the $30 - $45 range.
    >>
    >> The least expensive is the LiOn4400, second 6600 NiMh, and the most
    >> 6600 LiOn...
    >>
    >> What would be the best option for the occasional user??
    >>
    >> And, I hope that if it is the NiMh, will that recharge Ok with my
    >> existing laptop/power supply?

    >
    > NiMh charging is a bit different than for lithium (LiOn). But if that
    > battery is made for your model, I would say go for it. So how often do
    > you use it on battery? Did you know it is usually best to leave the
    > lithium battery out if you are using it on AC? As the heat from the
    > laptop shortens the life of lithium. I haven't done much research
    > whether this is true of NiMh as well.


    --
    Thanks & B'rgds,

    Uncle Vinnie
     
    Uncle Vinnie, Oct 18, 2010
    #3
  4. Uncle Vinnie

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:4cbc2cd4$0$9557$,
    Uncle Vinnie typed on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 07:18:09 -0400:
    > Thanks for the reply and the inight! How long per day.. well,
    > hardly.. which is my downfall. It generally sits plugged in, and is
    > used maybe... maybe once a month...
    >
    > If I use it more often and not keep it plugged in, would I have a
    > better shot of a long term battery???


    Well speaking generically speaking about lithium, it is best to leave
    them out when not in use or not charging. And some laptops still drain
    the battery when off. So I would test like 24 or 48 hours later and see
    what the charge level dropped to. Then decrease the checking like by
    doubling the time to checked it the last time. And after a few weeks you
    can guess pretty well how long the battery will last.

    Lithium batteries go downhill fast if they are heated to say 90°F or
    higher. That is why they shouldn't be in a working laptop since the
    laptop itself creates enough heat to cause harm. Don't worry though, it
    takes 18 months or longer to destroy a lithium battery in this fashion.
    And if you leave them out and charge them say every 6 months to a year
    they can last 10 years or longer.

    There is something else to worry about with lithium's too. That is you
    can't let the voltage to drop too low. I good lithium can sit in a
    drawer for a year, two or even three before it reaches this dangerous
    level. If you have a lithium dropping too low, they can burst in flames
    during recharging. Don't worry though, the safely circuits prevent
    charging if it goes that low. But then the battery is worthless unless
    you manually recharge it and that would be iffy if you could get it to
    work again. So you need to keep an eye on them and make sure they don't
    get too low. They say storing them at 40% capacity is the best. But
    letting sit they will loose about 2% capacity per month. And I have
    found higher than 40% isn't too bad and they can sit longer without
    recharging.

    If you are going with the Ni-MH battery, this all changes. As you can
    let them go flat and most of them should come back (not normally a good
    thing though). And they can take heat better than lithium batteries. As
    I don't think you have to worry about hurting Ni-MH until about 130°F.
    And most laptops won't heat the batteries that hot. And if you want to
    leave a Ni-MH in a laptop, I would check to see how fast to drain. If it
    drains too fast, leave it out obviously.

    > BillW50 wrote:
    >> In news:4cbb6f73$0$20170$,
    >> Uncle Vinnie typed on Sun, 17 Oct 2010 17:49:38 -0400:
    >>> I have an HP N5445 laptop where the battery went bad... LiOn...
    >>> 5400mah. Lasts about 10 minutes and dies... 99%, 98, 97, 96..
    >>> flatline...
    >>> I use it very little and my choices seem to be LiOn 4400mah, LiOn
    >>> 6600mh, and 6600mah NiMh.. all in the $30 - $45 range.
    >>>
    >>> The least expensive is the LiOn4400, second 6600 NiMh, and the most
    >>> 6600 LiOn...
    >>>
    >>> What would be the best option for the occasional user??
    >>>
    >>> And, I hope that if it is the NiMh, will that recharge Ok with my
    >>> existing laptop/power supply?

    >>
    >> NiMh charging is a bit different than for lithium (LiOn). But if that
    >> battery is made for your model, I would say go for it. So how often
    >> do you use it on battery? Did you know it is usually best to leave
    >> the lithium battery out if you are using it on AC? As the heat from
    >> the laptop shortens the life of lithium. I haven't done much research
    >> whether this is true of NiMh as well.

    >
    > --
    > Thanks & B'rgds,
    >
    > Uncle Vinnie


    --
    Bill
    Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 18, 2010
    #4
  5. Uncle Vinnie

    Bob Villa Guest

    On Oct 18, 6:18 am, "Uncle Vinnie" <> wrote:
    > Thanks for the reply and the inight!  How long per day.. well, hardly..
    > which is my downfall.  It generally sits plugged in, and is used maybe....
    > maybe once a month...
    >
    > If I use it more often and not keep it plugged in, would I have a better
    > shot of a long term battery???
    >
    >
    >


    After Bill has given you his long dissertation...I will give it a
    shot.
    Take the old battery out and leave it plugged in and don't buy a
    battery.

    bob
    HP Pavilion 6266 (1 of 1) Running Win95 OSR2
     
    Bob Villa, Oct 19, 2010
    #5
  6. Uncle Vinnie

    BillW50 Guest

    In
    news:,
    Bob Villa typed on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:32:32 -0700 (PDT):
    > After Bill has given you his long dissertation...I will give it a
    > shot.
    > Take the old battery out and leave it plugged in and don't buy a
    > battery.


    Yeah right! Once a lithium battery hits 96% of capacity and then dies,
    it is goner. If you run it mostly on AC, then an UPS makes sense if your
    AC isn't reliable enough.

    > HP Pavilion 6266 (1 of 1) Running Win95 OSR2


    Yeah right! lol

    So you lived in Wisconsin? Do you still?

    --
    Bill
    Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 19, 2010
    #6
  7. Uncle Vinnie

    Uncle Vinnie Guest

    How about if I only put the battery in as I need it? IA big mistake may be
    keeping the laptop plugged in 24/7 and rarely using it. Will either battery
    last longer/perform better if the laptop is simply not kept plugged in?

    BillW50 wrote:
    > In
    > news:,
    > Bob Villa typed on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:32:32 -0700 (PDT):
    >> After Bill has given you his long dissertation...I will give it a
    >> shot.
    >> Take the old battery out and leave it plugged in and don't buy a
    >> battery.

    >
    > Yeah right! Once a lithium battery hits 96% of capacity and then dies,
    > it is goner. If you run it mostly on AC, then an UPS makes sense if
    > your AC isn't reliable enough.
    >
    >> HP Pavilion 6266 (1 of 1) Running Win95 OSR2

    >
    > Yeah right! lol
    >
    > So you lived in Wisconsin? Do you still?


    --
    Thanks & B'rgds,

    Uncle Vinnie
     
    Uncle Vinnie, Oct 20, 2010
    #7
  8. Uncle Vinnie

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:4cbecf2d$0$9557$,
    Uncle Vinnie typed on Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:15:23 -0400:
    > How about if I only put the battery in as I need it? IA big mistake
    > may be keeping the laptop plugged in 24/7 and rarely using it. Will
    > either battery last longer/perform better if the laptop is simply not
    > kept plugged in?


    It may, that is why I would test to see how fast the battery drains
    being left in the laptop and off without being plugged in. If it is down
    to 50% or less in a week or two, leave it out. If it lasts 6 months or
    longer being off and it is still higher than say 80%, then it is
    probably ok in leave in the laptop. Otherwise charge it up and leave it
    out.

    > BillW50 wrote:
    >> In
    >> news:,
    >> Bob Villa typed on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:32:32 -0700 (PDT):
    >>> After Bill has given you his long dissertation...I will give it a
    >>> shot.
    >>> Take the old battery out and leave it plugged in and don't buy a
    >>> battery.

    >>
    >> Yeah right! Once a lithium battery hits 96% of capacity and then
    >> dies, it is goner. If you run it mostly on AC, then an UPS makes
    >> sense if your AC isn't reliable enough.
    >>
    >>> HP Pavilion 6266 (1 of 1) Running Win95 OSR2

    >>
    >> Yeah right! lol
    >>
    >> So you lived in Wisconsin? Do you still?

    >
    > --
    > Thanks & B'rgds,
    >
    > Uncle Vinnie


    --
    Bill
    Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 20, 2010
    #8
  9. Uncle Vinnie

    Uncle Vinnie Guest

    thank you... any preference LiOn vs NiMh? Also, for sure, the old one
    (LiOn) is probably shot, no turning back, correct?

    (BTW, amazing, I have inquired about 2 batteries and to date, no reply...
    that's gotta speak volumes about the vendor...)


    BillW50 wrote:
    > In news:4cbecf2d$0$9557$,
    > Uncle Vinnie typed on Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:15:23 -0400:
    >> How about if I only put the battery in as I need it? IA big mistake
    >> may be keeping the laptop plugged in 24/7 and rarely using it. Will
    >> either battery last longer/perform better if the laptop is simply not
    >> kept plugged in?

    >
    > It may, that is why I would test to see how fast the battery drains
    > being left in the laptop and off without being plugged in. If it is
    > down to 50% or less in a week or two, leave it out. If it lasts 6
    > months or longer being off and it is still higher than say 80%, then
    > it is probably ok in leave in the laptop. Otherwise charge it up and
    > leave it out.
    >
    >> BillW50 wrote:
    >>> In
    >>> news:,
    >>> Bob Villa typed on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:32:32 -0700 (PDT):
    >>>> After Bill has given you his long dissertation...I will give it a
    >>>> shot.
    >>>> Take the old battery out and leave it plugged in and don't buy a
    >>>> battery.
    >>>
    >>> Yeah right! Once a lithium battery hits 96% of capacity and then
    >>> dies, it is goner. If you run it mostly on AC, then an UPS makes
    >>> sense if your AC isn't reliable enough.
    >>>
    >>>> HP Pavilion 6266 (1 of 1) Running Win95 OSR2
    >>>
    >>> Yeah right! lol
    >>>
    >>> So you lived in Wisconsin? Do you still?

    >>
    >> --
    >> Thanks & B'rgds,
    >>
    >> Uncle Vinnie


    --
    Thanks & B'rgds,

    Uncle Vinnie
     
    Uncle Vinnie, Oct 20, 2010
    #9
  10. Uncle Vinnie

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:4cbee098$0$20167$,
    Uncle Vinnie typed on Wed, 20 Oct 2010 08:29:12 -0400:
    > thank you... any preference LiOn vs NiMh? Also, for sure, the old one
    > (LiOn) is probably shot, no turning back, correct?


    I like NiMh better. Only because it is less dangerous and requires less
    care. Although a lot of people like LiOn better as it is suppose to pack
    more power in a smaller package. It is true of button batteries, cell
    phones, etc. But once you get up to laptop size, it doesn't seem that
    much more.

    > (BTW, amazing, I have inquired about 2 batteries and to date, no
    > reply... that's gotta speak volumes about the vendor...)


    So true!

    > BillW50 wrote:
    >> In news:4cbecf2d$0$9557$,
    >> Uncle Vinnie typed on Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:15:23 -0400:
    >>> How about if I only put the battery in as I need it? IA big mistake
    >>> may be keeping the laptop plugged in 24/7 and rarely using it. Will
    >>> either battery last longer/perform better if the laptop is simply
    >>> not kept plugged in?

    >>
    >> It may, that is why I would test to see how fast the battery drains
    >> being left in the laptop and off without being plugged in. If it is
    >> down to 50% or less in a week or two, leave it out. If it lasts 6
    >> months or longer being off and it is still higher than say 80%, then
    >> it is probably ok in leave in the laptop. Otherwise charge it up and
    >> leave it out.
    >>
    >>> BillW50 wrote:
    >>>> In
    >>>> news:,
    >>>> Bob Villa typed on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:32:32 -0700 (PDT):
    >>>>> After Bill has given you his long dissertation...I will give it a
    >>>>> shot.
    >>>>> Take the old battery out and leave it plugged in and don't buy a
    >>>>> battery.
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah right! Once a lithium battery hits 96% of capacity and then
    >>>> dies, it is goner. If you run it mostly on AC, then an UPS makes
    >>>> sense if your AC isn't reliable enough.
    >>>>
    >>>>> HP Pavilion 6266 (1 of 1) Running Win95 OSR2
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah right! lol
    >>>>
    >>>> So you lived in Wisconsin? Do you still?
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Thanks & B'rgds,
    >>>
    >>> Uncle Vinnie

    >
    > --
    > Thanks & B'rgds,
    >
    > Uncle Vinnie


    --
    Bill
    Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 20, 2010
    #10
  11. Uncle Vinnie

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:,
    AJL typed on Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:21:45 -0700:
    > "Uncle Vinnie" <> wrote:
    >
    >> How about if I only put the battery in as I need it? IA big mistake
    >> may be keeping the laptop plugged in 24/7 and rarely using it. Will
    >> either battery last longer/perform better if the laptop is simply
    >> not kept plugged in?

    >
    > I leave the battery in my home based laptop all the time with the
    > charger plugged in. The reason is simply *convenience*. It's a pain in
    > the buttocks to hunt up the battery when I want to take the laptop
    > somewhere, especially when I'm in a hurry like when heading to the
    > sandbox. While I'm sure the learned scholars here have a point about
    > heat, I am not sure it is worth the hassle to get 2.5 years instead of
    > 2 out of the battery... (IMO YMMV)


    Actually it is more like 2, 3 and even 4 times longer. I am getting
    three times longer (about 6 to 9 years), but Barry was getting four
    times longer (over 10 years). I believe Barry believed in exercising
    them every 6 weeks. While I believe in charging them up and throw them
    in the drawer and forget about them till they get close to zero capacity
    and charge them up again. Maybe why Barry was doing better than me.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 23, 2010
    #11
  12. Uncle Vinnie

    Bud Guest

    > Actually it is more like 2, 3 and even 4 times longer. I am getting
    > three times longer (about 6 to 9 years), but Barry was getting four
    > times longer (over 10 years). I believe Barry believed in exercising
    > them every 6 weeks. While I believe in charging them up and throw them
    > in the drawer and forget about them till they get close to zero capacity
    > and charge them up again. Maybe why Barry was doing better than me.


    For the ion batteries, use until they are about 60% down then
    charge to 100% and unplug. This information from a study done
    sometime ago. Memory fails me, sorry, by whom. But it proved by
    doing so increased the battery live by a long time.
    --
    Bud
     
    Bud, Oct 23, 2010
    #12
  13. Uncle Vinnie

    Uncle Vinnie Guest

    (Just to let you know I am still reading this thread and I thank you ALL for
    your input.. I am indeed 'listening'! I will be ordering a battery AND
    following your advice!!)

    Bud wrote:
    >> Actually it is more like 2, 3 and even 4 times longer. I am getting
    >> three times longer (about 6 to 9 years), but Barry was getting four
    >> times longer (over 10 years). I believe Barry believed in exercising
    >> them every 6 weeks. While I believe in charging them up and throw
    >> them in the drawer and forget about them till they get close to zero
    >> capacity and charge them up again. Maybe why Barry was doing better
    >> than me.

    >
    > For the ion batteries, use until they are about 60% down then
    > charge to 100% and unplug. This information from a study done
    > sometime ago. Memory fails me, sorry, by whom. But it proved by
    > doing so increased the battery live by a long time.


    --
    Thanks & B'rgds,

    Uncle Vinnie
     
    Uncle Vinnie, Oct 24, 2010
    #13
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