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Help with overclocking Duron on gigabyte mobo!

Discussion in 'AMD Overclocking' started by matiii, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. matiii

    matiii Guest

    Hi,

    I got Duron 700 on Gigabyte nForce2 GA-7N400 mobo (I know, $h1tty cpu
    on good mobo - I'll buy a new one when I have some cash). I got myself
    a better cooling and I want to overclock D700 to 1GHz, because AFAIK
    now it runs in asynchronous mode with system bus 100, and memory at
    200 (got PC3200).

    So the reasonable combination seems 5x200, right? Correct me if I'm
    wrong. Now, I have to unlock multiplier in Duron, so I've bought
    conductive paint, I closed L1 bridges and I wanted to set jumpers on
    mobo to 5x, then change FSB to 200 in BIOS. Unfortunately system
    refuses to POST, when it has multiplier set to manual, so I had to
    switch it back to auto and additionaly clear CMOS. The only exeption
    is when I set multi to 7x (a default one in Duron), it works then too.

    Another thing I don't get is FSB setting in BIOS - no matter if I
    choose 100, or 200, CPU-Z reports that it runs at 100 and, of course,
    CPU runs at 700. I want FSB (or system clock as WCPUId calls it) to
    run at 200. There is another jumper on mobo, clk_sw - manual says it
    should be OFF, when using FSB 100 or 200. It *is* off, and when I
    tried changing it, the system wouldn't POST either. Duron
    specification says maximum FSB is 200, so what's the story?

    I'm pretty confused. I don't know if:

    1. I screwed the paint job (though I did it really carefully, I knew
    what
    to do, and what *not* to do);
    2. the jumpers on mobo should be set in certain way;
    3. or I missed some BIOS settings.

    There is another way, on
    http://www.ocinside.de/go_e.html?/html/workshop/workshop.html there's
    an *interactive painting guide...* for Duron, and they give also a way
    to alter multiplier - not only unlock it, but change, and voltage,
    too. Maybe the mobo is no good for overclocking, and I got to set new
    values on CPU itself by cutting/joining bridges?

    Help will be *really* appreciated, thanks in advance
    Matt
     
    matiii, Jun 2, 2004
    #1
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  2. matiii

    Wes Newell Guest

    On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 20:43:45 -0700, matiii wrote:

    > I got Duron 700 on Gigabyte nForce2 GA-7N400 mobo (I know, $h1tty cpu
    > on good mobo - I'll buy a new one when I have some cash). I got myself


    > Help will be *really* appreciated, thanks in advance


    I couldn't get my Duron 700 to run a 1000MHz. Topped out about 950. With
    what you have. I'd raise vcore to 1.85 and set the FSB to 133 for 7x133.
    Easy and should work ok unless the cpu is a dog.

    --
    Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
     
    Wes Newell, Jun 2, 2004
    #2
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  3. matiii

    matiii Guest

    Wes Newell <> wrote in message news:<>...

    > .... With
    > what you have. I'd raise vcore to 1.85 and set the FSB to 133 for 7x133.
    > Easy and should work ok unless the cpu is a dog.


    I'm getting really pissed. Dunno why, hardware totally ignores what I
    set in BIOS. No matter if I set FSB to 133, 200 - it always runs
    7x100 - WTF!!?!?

    My Duron has those symbols on its core:

    D700AUT1B

    Which, according to AMD specs means:

    D700 obvious, A is a package type - doesn't matter;
    U - nominal core voltage - 1.60 V
    T - max. die temp. - 90 deg C
    1 - level 2 cache size - 64 KB
    B - *maximum system bus speed* - *200 MHz*

    stepping code AKCA, manufactured in 2000, 49th week (AKCA0049MPMW)

    So? What's wrong? Is BIOS somewhat screwed? Maybe I should flash it,
    as someone already has suggested it to me. Or maybe this Duron is too
    old to run at higher bus? But I heard of a guy (on #IRCNet,
    #overclocking) that runs D600@1000 ;)

    Really hope to read some good news
    Matt
     
    matiii, Jun 3, 2004
    #3
  4. matiii

    Wes Newell Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 05:00:09 -0700, matiii wrote:

    > Wes Newell <> wrote in message
    > news:<>...
    >
    >> .... With
    >> what you have. I'd raise vcore to 1.85 and set the FSB to 133 for
    >> 7x133. Easy and should work ok unless the cpu is a dog.

    >
    > I'm getting really pissed. Dunno why, hardware totally ignores what I
    > set in BIOS. No matter if I set FSB to 133, 200 - it always runs 7x100
    > - WTF!!?!?
    >

    Check MB manual. Some boards have to enable the bios control via jumper on
    board. I suspect that's what you'fve got.

    > My Duron has those symbols on its core:
    >
    > D700AUT1B
    >
    > Which, according to AMD specs means:
    >
    > D700 obvious, A is a package type - doesn't matter; U - nominal core
    > voltage - 1.60 V
    > T - max. die temp. - 90 deg C
    > 1 - level 2 cache size - 64 KB
    > B - *maximum system bus speed* - *200 MHz*
    >

    That's default speed, not maximum.

    > So? What's wrong? Is BIOS somewhat screwed? Maybe I should flash it, as
    > someone already has suggested it to me. Or maybe this Duron is too old
    > to run at higher bus? But I heard of a guy (on #IRCNet, #overclocking)
    > that runs D600@1000 ;)
    >

    I could get 1000Mhz out of both my 600 and 700 duron, but not stable.

    --
    Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
     
    Wes Newell, Jun 3, 2004
    #4
  5. matiii

    Gene Puhl Guest

    (matiii) astounded us with:
    news::

    > Hi,
    >
    > I got Duron 700 on Gigabyte nForce2 GA-7N400 mobo (I know, $h1tty cpu
    > on good mobo - I'll buy a new one when I have some cash). I got myself
    > a better cooling and I want to overclock D700 to 1GHz, because AFAIK
    > now it runs in asynchronous mode with system bus 100, and memory at
    > 200 (got PC3200).
    >
    > So the reasonable combination seems 5x200, right? Correct me if I'm
    > wrong. Now, I have to unlock multiplier in Duron, so I've bought
    > conductive paint, I closed L1 bridges and I wanted to set jumpers on
    > mobo to 5x, then change FSB to 200 in BIOS. Unfortunately system
    > refuses to POST, when it has multiplier set to manual, so I had to
    > switch it back to auto and additionaly clear CMOS. The only exeption
    > is when I set multi to 7x (a default one in Duron), it works then too.
    >
    > Another thing I don't get is FSB setting in BIOS - no matter if I
    > choose 100, or 200, CPU-Z reports that it runs at 100 and, of course,
    > CPU runs at 700. I want FSB (or system clock as WCPUId calls it) to
    > run at 200. There is another jumper on mobo, clk_sw - manual says it
    > should be OFF, when using FSB 100 or 200. It *is* off, and when I
    > tried changing it, the system wouldn't POST either. Duron
    > specification says maximum FSB is 200, so what's the story?


    The Duron is "double pumped", an FSB of 100mhz is really 200mhz to the
    system. The Spitfire (and Morgan cores up to 1400mhz, IIRC)run at 100mhz,
    that's it...If you've unlocked the processor, raise your multiplier, not
    the FSB.






    --
    Gene P
     
    Gene Puhl, Jun 4, 2004
    #5
  6. matiii wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I got Duron 700 on Gigabyte nForce2 GA-7N400 mobo (I know, $h1tty cpu
    > on good mobo - I'll buy a new one when I have some cash). I got myself
    > a better cooling and I want to overclock D700 to 1GHz, because AFAIK
    > now it runs in asynchronous mode with system bus 100, and memory at
    > 200 (got PC3200).
    >
    > So the reasonable combination seems 5x200, right? Correct me if I'm
    > wrong. Now, I have to unlock multiplier in Duron, so I've bought
    > conductive paint, I closed L1 bridges and I wanted to set jumpers on
    > mobo to 5x, then change FSB to 200 in BIOS. Unfortunately system
    > refuses to POST, when it has multiplier set to manual, so I had to
    > switch it back to auto and additionaly clear CMOS. The only exeption
    > is when I set multi to 7x (a default one in Duron), it works then too.


    There's a couple of gotchas with the CPGA Durons (the ceramic ones, they go
    "clink" when you tap em with a screwdriver :) ) and some motherboards. This
    issue manifests itself as the board refusing to POST at any multiplier other
    than the default one for the chip. For example, a friend of mine has an
    identical Duron to you. He was wondering how high it could go, so I swapped
    it for a spare Palomino I had lying around for a few days so that I could do
    a few experiments. I rejoined the L1's and could set the multiplier to
    whatever I wanted on my Soltek 75DRV5. I found a nice stable point on that
    board, pinmodded it, Prime95'd it, and dropped it back off to his place. It
    wouldn't POST on his motherboard (a Gigabyte as well, funnily enough).
    Dropping it back into my board madde it work perfectly again.

    So, I removed the pinmod and is began working (at the default multiplier) in
    his board again. Changing the multiplier to anything but stock made it fail
    to boot.

    The problem is that the CPGA Durons (and TBirds, possibly) have the
    multiplier set in TWO places: The L6, which tells the M/B what multiplier to
    use, and the L1/L2/L3/L4 setup which tell the CPU what to use. Some BIOSes
    check to make sure these are equal, and won't POST if they are different.
    With the CPGA chips, the copper traces on the top are fakes. You can remove
    them without damaging the chip at all (yes, this was verified on the Duron
    in a rather unfortunate accident ...). The real traces are actually under
    the ceramic, so you need a diamond drill to cut through them.

    Alternatively, you can mod the motherboard to make it do multiplier
    adjustments properly. As per usual standards, Fab51 has this fully
    documented (albeit only in Japanese).
    http://fab51.fc2web.com/pc/duron/duron1.html

    With a 7x multiplier, you've got all the (important) L6's already pulled to
    ground, unless you're wanting to go straight for a 11.0x multiplier (not
    recommended). In this case, you either have to modify the motherboard (sever
    the traces, yikes!) or get fairly brutal on the CPU (rip the pins off,
    yikes!). I'd personally recommend you don't try either of these, and go for
    straight FSB overclocking. With a 7x multiplier you won't have any problems
    with the board not being able to handle the speed.


    One thing that DOES puzzle me though is that you're using a fairly recent
    board, but it doesn't do things correctly. My first step would be to set the
    FSB back to the default, 100MHz, then try adjusting the multiplier to 6.5x.
    If this works, then it's just the CPU not liking high FSBs or just not
    liking the 1GHz you were trying to run it at. Try something a little lower,
    such as 5x133 or 5x150. Also, you might want to try running the memory in
    async mode which may give you a bit of a boost in in games.

    [...]

    --
    Michael Brown
    www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more :)
    Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
     
    Michael Brown, Jun 4, 2004
    #6
  7. matiii

    matiii Guest

    SHHEEESHH!!

    1. I set mobo multiplier jumpers to auto, FSB jumper (CLK_SW) to off,
    meaning 100MHz "fix 200MHz CPU" as the manual says. It also says "You
    must set CLK_SW to 100MHz when you used FSB 200MHz CPU". So it is
    done.

    2. I reset BIOS to defaults, i.e. FSB 100 as well.

    3. Of course, Duron reports at 700 - when I change FSB steb by step,
    there's no difference, as I posted before - system doesn't POST when
    there's other multi than 7, though I haven't tried all (reasonable,
    because list reaches 18 :)combinations.

    So I don't got any more idea how to move the FSB. I was changing it
    with "System Performance" set to "Normal", in raw 33 MHz steps, as
    well as in "Manual" mode, one by one - no difference at all. Maybe I
    will flash the BIOS and see if it helps, I'm getting really fed up and
    pissed.

    Michael Brown wrote:

    >With the CPGA chips, the copper traces on the top are fakes. You can

    remove
    >them without damaging the chip at all (yes, this was verified on the

    Duron
    >in a rather unfortunate accident ...). The real traces are actually

    under
    >the ceramic, so you need a diamond drill to cut through them.


    I also considered changing multi by opening/closing the L6 bridges,
    but that really put me off. Where do you got this info from?

    Oh, and the last thing, Gene Puhl wrote:

    >The Duron is "double pumped", an FSB of 100mhz is really 200mhz to

    the
    >system.


    So, what about DDRs? CPU-Z (or WCPUid) reports that *FSB* is 200 and
    *system bus*, or *system clock* (WCPUid) is 100 - DDR runs at 200,
    according to CPU-Z. Now, is this physical frequency they run at, and
    then data rate is doubled, cause they are DDRs, or is it calculated
    double-times-FSB, meaning they actually run at 100MHz? (BIOS says they
    run at 400...) And which solution is more effective considering the
    fact it's AMD?

    Matt
     
    matiii, Jun 5, 2004
    #7
  8. matiii wrote:
    > SHHEEESHH!!
    >
    > 1. I set mobo multiplier jumpers to auto, FSB jumper (CLK_SW) to off,
    > meaning 100MHz "fix 200MHz CPU" as the manual says. It also says "You
    > must set CLK_SW to 100MHz when you used FSB 200MHz CPU". So it is
    > done.


    I think this just makes the FSB at 100MHz, and unchangable. This is not what
    you want, so try setting CLK_SW to on.

    [...]
    > Michael Brown wrote:
    >
    >> With the CPGA chips, the copper traces on the top are fakes. You can
    >> remove them without damaging the chip at all (yes, this was verified
    >> on the Duron in a rather unfortunate accident ...). The real traces
    >> are actually under the ceramic, so you need a diamond drill to cut
    >> through them.

    >
    > I also considered changing multi by opening/closing the L6 bridges,
    > but that really put me off. Where do you got this info from?


    http://www.beachlink.com/candjac/duronocpg2.htm
    Except this page is no longer in existance ... archive.org to the rescue! :)
    http://web.archive.org/web/20030202080947/www.beachlink.com/candjac/duronocp
    g2.htm

    The "top traces are fake" was verified by messing around with the VID
    bridges on a CPGA duron and not having anything change despite completely
    removing one bridge from the chip. Well, they are sorta fake ... you can
    rejoin a bridge using the ones on the top, but not break one.

    The diamond-tipped drill info from various sources, the most interesting
    being
    http://www.bunkermentality.net/keychain.html
    (down the bottom)


    > Oh, and the last thing, Gene Puhl wrote:
    >
    >> The Duron is "double pumped", an FSB of 100mhz is really 200mhz to
    >> the system.

    >
    > So, what about DDRs? CPU-Z (or WCPUid) reports that *FSB* is 200 and
    > *system bus*, or *system clock* (WCPUid) is 100 - DDR runs at 200,
    > according to CPU-Z. Now, is this physical frequency they run at, and
    > then data rate is doubled, cause they are DDRs, or is it calculated
    > double-times-FSB, meaning they actually run at 100MHz?


    Welcome the the world of marketing-induced FSB confusion. I'm sure Wes will
    do a nice rant on this :) but essentially half the bus (the control part) is
    running at 100MHz, and the other half (the data part) is running at 200MHz
    (which is why it's called DDR). The actual clock signal fed to the CPU is
    the 100MHz one. Which speed is reported varies with whichever tool you are
    using. Some report the doubled speed, some report the base speed. The
    "marketing" speeds are the doubled ones, whereas the BIOS ones are are quite
    inconsistant. If you have 1MHz adjustments, these will be the base speeds,
    and if you have ones that allow you to select 400,333,266,200 then they're
    the doubled speeds.

    The base speed is what is multiplied by the CPU (since this is what it is
    fed), ie: with a 200MHz marketing bus, you have a 7x multiplier to get
    700MHz.

    [...]

    --
    Michael Brown
    www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more :)
    Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
     
    Michael Brown, Jun 6, 2004
    #8
  9. matiii

    phsstpok Guest

    > The problem is that the CPGA Durons (and TBirds, possibly) have the
    > multiplier set in TWO places: The L6, which tells the M/B what multiplier to
    > use, and the L1/L2/L3/L4 setup which tell the CPU what to use. Some BIOSes
    > check to make sure these are equal, and won't POST if they are different.


    Sorry, but you are slightly in error here. L1 controls unlocking. L3
    and L4 determine multipliers. L6 determines Muliplier ID. These
    bridges do work the same way on Thunderbird.

    I only learned recently how imortant Multiplier ID for Spitfire Duron
    (a 600). Although mine was factory unlocked (L1 bridges not cut) and
    I had it working with BIOS multipliers (9.5 x 106 Mhz= 1007 Mhz) I ran
    into problems when performing wire mods (wire-in-socket in my case).
    I used the same mods that I was using for a TBred B XP1700+. Set it
    for a conservative 7X x 133Mhz. No joy. Realizing I had never tested
    the Duron on this motherboard (EPoX 8KTA3PRO, KT133A) I decided to
    retest at 100 Mhz. Only the default 6X would work! Tried 7X, and 9X
    (perhaps a few others). Still nothing. I confirmed everything I tried
    with my Tbred yet the Duron refused to POST.

    Going back to BIOS multipliers the Duron worked perfectly. In fact
    with a much better HSF than I had while the Duron was on my Abit KT7 I
    am able to overclock it to 1112 Mhz (8 x 139). This is with the same
    board on which I was trying the wiremods.

    I gave up.

    A month or so later I was re-reading John C's website and also
    OCinside.de when it dawned on me that the functionality of the L6
    bridges exists on the pin grid. With Tbreds and unlocked Bartons we
    need only perform wirmods on pins AN27, AL27, AN25, AL25, and, AJ27
    for multipliers (0.5X...8X) but on Spitfire/Thunderbird (and I think
    Palomino) we need also mod'd pins W1, W3, Y1 and Y3, Multiplier ID
    pins. At least it's necessary with legacy motherboards (all I have).
    Anyway, once I learned this there were no more problems with the
    Spitfire.

    Phsstpok
     
    phsstpok, Jun 6, 2004
    #9
  10. matiii

    matiii Guest

    Michael Brown wrote in message news:

    > > 1. I set mobo multiplier jumpers to auto, FSB jumper (CLK_SW) to off,
    > > meaning 100MHz "fix 200MHz CPU" as the manual says. It also says "You
    > > must set CLK_SW to 100MHz when you used FSB 200MHz CPU". So it is
    > > done.

    >
    > I think this just makes the FSB at 100MHz, and unchangable. This is not what
    > you want, so try setting CLK_SW to on.


    Here we are! I don't know if it is thanks to the new BIOS (I flashed
    it) or I haven't checked CLK_SW *on* and FSB jumpers *auto*
    combination yet. Anyway, now I'm able to change fsb freely :) So at
    the moment D700 runs at 931 MHz (FSB 133) with vcore around 1.79. So
    now, definitely, system runs at asynchronous mode, doesn't it? (DRAM
    speed is set to *BY SPD* which results in 400 in BIOS) Maybe I should
    change it to make it run in synchro? Will it be more efficient, and is
    there a particular way to test it except for overall benchmarks?

    Prime95 reported an error, doh... :

    FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.4818878174, expected less than 0.4

    Don't know if to bother, I haven't checked computer earlier much, so
    can't tell if it's due to higher speed, or something got just screwed
    at the testing time, or there's something generally wrong with he
    stuff. Memory is Twinmos 256 PC3200, so it ain't bad I guess...

    The multi change still doesn't work, either I can't paint :) , or it
    is really the case with this multiplier double-check. So, as I
    understood it, you can close those bridges if they're open, but to
    open'em you'd have to fight the ceramic, right? Yikes, indeed ;)

    Matt

    PS. BTW, any gotchas with Athlon 1GHz? (dunno the fsb yet, it's my
    girl's comp, gotta check)
    PSS. Any ideas for a good aircooler for P4 at a reasonable price?
     
    matiii, Jun 8, 2004
    #10
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