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I wish I had this laptop

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by GreenXenon, May 19, 2010.

  1. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    Hi:

    My secure dream laptop has following characteristics:

    1. All IDs -- such as the MAC address [including that of the wireless
    adapter] -- are totally dynamic. When the laptop is offed, these IDs
    disappear without leaving a trace. When the laptop is switched on, new
    IDs are generated.

    2. The only ROM is mask-programmed ROM, as well as optical ROMs [CDs,
    DVDs, etc.]

    3. The only RAM is a hypothetical form of volatile RAM chips in which
    all info is completely lost in 100th-of-a-second-or-less after the
    laptop is turned-off. Even theoretically there is no way to recover
    this data unless one completely re-powers before 100th-of-a-second
    after power-off.

    4. The wireless adapter has the longest range allowed by law

    5. The OS is Macintosh and is installed on ROM chips

    6. Chips of the hypothetical RAM listed in #3 substitute for the HDD

    7. The is an optical-disc burner that is compatible with all formats
    of optical discs [such as DVD-R, CD-R]

    8. The radio transmitter [used for the wireless internet access] is
    unidirectional and can beam the radio signal toward the wi-fi access
    point without transmitting in any other direction

    9. The clock skew of my system varies such that clock-skew-
    fingerprinting would be a totally-useless technique to those trying to
    identify my computer.

    10. All parts of the laptop -- excluding the radio transmitter,
    receiver, and antennas -- are tempest-shielded.

    11. There is no malware [e.g. rootkits] installed in any of the ROM
    chips.


    Regards,

    Green Xenon
    GreenXenon, May 19, 2010
    #1
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  2. In article <>, GreenXenon <> writes:
    >Hi:
    >
    >My secure dream laptop has following characteristics:
    >
    >1. All IDs -- such as the MAC address [including that of the wireless
    >adapter] -- are totally dynamic. When the laptop is offed, these IDs
    >disappear without leaving a trace. When the laptop is switched on, new
    >IDs are generated.


    That'd be just great. Have you ever seen the havoc that multiple, same
    Ethernet (MAC) addresses can cause?

    Back in the day, I worked in a DoD lab and some low-bidder provided NIC
    cards for some of the PeeCees proliferating in the lab's pencil pushing
    departments. Network storms then took down virtually every system that
    was connected to the backbone. I took great pleasure introducing each
    and every one of these PeeCee NIC cards to a 4lb. slegdehammer.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

    http://www.quirkfactory.com/popart/asskey/eqn2.png

    Read all about their schemes and adventuring. It's well worth a fee. So roll
    up and see, how they rape the universe; How they've gone from bad to worse.
    Who are these men of lust, greed, and glory? Rip off the masks and let's see.
    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG, May 19, 2010
    #2
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  3. GreenXenon <> writes:

    > Hi:
    >
    > My secure dream laptop has following characteristics:


    The usual market mechanisms which spit out laptops do not work this way
    (and they're all very much the same these days). If you would care to
    build and sell such a laptop you'd find you could not sell these things
    for the money needed to build them and your company would go bankrupt in
    no time at all.

    Anyway, I would like to have these features (as well as some others),
    too. Have you tried to contact the FSF (or others) about such an idea?
    They just *might* be interested. Not with OS X, though. If you change
    your requirements to have an open-source BIOS and some free Unix on it,
    who knows? There might be enough geeks interested in such a device. The
    time is right for such a thing and cheap hardware is abound, actually.

    Jochem

    --
    "A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
    longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
    - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
    Jochem Huhmann, May 19, 2010
    #3
  4. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On May 19, 1:25 pm, Jochem Huhmann <> wrote:


    > The usual market mechanisms which spit out laptops do not work this way
    > (and they're all very much the same these days). If you would care to
    > build and sell such a laptop you'd find you could not sell these things
    > for the money needed to build them and your company would go bankrupt in
    > no time at all.



    Why would this hypothetical laptop be so expensive?
    GreenXenon, May 19, 2010
    #4
  5. GreenXenon

    Király Guest

    In comp.sys.mac.apps GreenXenon <> wrote:
    > My secure dream laptop has following characteristics:


    My old Commodore 64 had most of the things on your list...

    --
    K.

    Lang may your lum reek.
    Király, May 19, 2010
    #5
  6. In article
    <>,
    GreenXenon <> wrote:

    > 5. The OS is Macintosh and is installed on ROM chips


    How would you upgrade it?

    > 8. The radio transmitter [used for the wireless internet access] is
    > unidirectional and can beam the radio signal toward the wi-fi access
    > point without transmitting in any other direction


    How would you know where to aim it? How would it be aimed?

    --
    Check out the Hot Cocoa Party
    <http://www.hotcocoaparty.info>
    Michelle Steiner, May 19, 2010
    #6
  7. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On May 19, 3:41 pm, Robert Haar <> wrote:


    > On 5/19/10 3:00 PM, "GreenXenon" <> wrote:
    >
    > > Hi:

    >
    > > My secure dream laptop has following characteristics:

    >
    > > 1. All IDs -- such as the MAC address [including that of the wireless
    > > adapter] -- are totally dynamic. When the laptop is offed, these IDs

    >



    > "offed" ?  When it is killed, what matters anymore?



    "Offed" as in the power is turned off. Dynamic IDs provide greater
    anonymity than static IDs. In this hypothetical laptop when power is
    cut, these IDs are permanently and completely lost such that even the
    most advanced theoretical technology cannot recover them.


    > > 5. The OS is Macintosh and is installed on ROM chips

    >



    > What happens when Apple releases a bug fix for a security problem? DO you
    > have to wait for physical distribution of a new set of ROM chips through
    > trusted channels?



    On a comp without NVRAM there is actually less security concerns than
    that with NVRAM.

    You do have a point, but I feel my dream laptop would be more secure
    because any malware that enters the laptop by any method -- such as
    the internet -- will completely disappear as soon as I turn off the
    power.


    >
    >
    >
    > > 6. Chips of the hypothetical RAM listed in #3 substitute for the HDD

    >



    > So you have no long term storage on the laptop? No data? Or do you burn a
    > new CD every time one byte changes in a data file?



    Depending on the data I either forget about it or store it on the
    internet. This laptop is meant for extreme security and secrecy. I
    want an easy way to totally and permanently eliminate the data in RAM
    so that is why I don't want an HDD or any non-volatile RAM for that
    matter.


    >
    > > 11. There is no malware [e.g. rootkits] installed in any of the ROM
    > > chips.

    >



    > How do you know?



    I don't. I just wish for it to be that way. That's why I call it's a
    "dream" laptop.


    > Even if you could get one at a reasonable price, I don't think you would
    > really like using it. I know I wouldn't.



    Why not?

    One of the purposes of this hypothetical laptop is to be as anonymous
    on the net as possible while still being on the net. Other purposes
    GreenXenon, May 20, 2010
    #7
  8. GreenXenon

    BillW50 Guest

    In
    news:,
    GreenXenon typed on Wed, 19 May 2010 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT):
    > You do have a point, but I feel my dream laptop would be more secure
    > because any malware that enters the laptop by any method -- such as
    > the internet -- will completely disappear as soon as I turn off the
    > power.


    That is the way my computers with Microsoft EWF works.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3
    BillW50, May 20, 2010
    #8
  9. GreenXenon <> writes:

    > On May 19, 1:25 pm, Jochem Huhmann <> wrote:
    >
    >> The usual market mechanisms which spit out laptops do not work this way
    >> (and they're all very much the same these days). If you would care to
    >> build and sell such a laptop you'd find you could not sell these things
    >> for the money needed to build them and your company would go bankrupt in
    >> no time at all.

    >
    > Why would this hypothetical laptop be so expensive?


    Because it would have several unique features and these things are as
    cheap as they are because they're basically all the same inside (apart
    from different cases and stickers). You'd need to get a unique design
    fabricated and this is expensive.

    Jochem

    --
    "A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
    longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
    - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
    Jochem Huhmann, May 20, 2010
    #9
  10. GreenXenon

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:C819FD8B.4962D4%,
    Robert Haar typed on Wed, 19 May 2010 20:41:47 -0400:
    > People who are professionally paranoid about computer security don't
    > allow Internet connects and no removable media. Everything is is a
    > physically secured room, preferably a Faraday cage with no windows
    > and independent power.


    I have been running Windows on a number of machines since 1993. I never
    had a virus yet. There are sharks in the ocean too, I saw one of them
    once. And I was alone scuba diving (which is something you should never
    do they say). And he saw me and I saw him and he split really fast away
    from me. So I guess I should be more scared of sharks, eh?

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3
    BillW50, May 20, 2010
    #10
  11. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On May 19, 5:41 pm, Robert Haar <> wrote:


    > On 5/19/10 7:23 PM, "GreenXenon" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >



    > > On May 19, 3:41 pm, Robert Haar <> wrote:

    >



    > >> On 5/19/10 3:00 PM, "GreenXenon" <> wrote:

    >



    > >>> Hi:

    >
    > >>> My secure dream laptop has following characteristics:

    >
    > >>> 1. All IDs -- such as the MAC address [including that of the wireless
    > >>> adapter] -- are totally dynamic. When the laptop is offed, these IDs

    >



    > >> "offed" ?  When it is killed, what matters anymore?

    >



    > > "Offed" as in the power is turned off.



    >
    > Hmmm .. Must be a local idiom. Why not just say turned off?
    >



    Sorry.


    >
    >
    > >>> 5. The OS is Macintosh and is installed on ROM chips



    >
    > >> What happens when Apple releases a bug fix for a security problem? DO you
    > >> have to wait for physical distribution of a new set of ROM chips through
    > >> trusted channels?



    >
    > > On a comp without NVRAM there is actually less security concerns than
    > > that with NVRAM.



    >
    > I don't agree. The concerns are different. You reduce one but put all your
    > faith in network storage, which increases other risks.
    >



    Yes but I don't plan to store anything I treasure the networks.


    >
    >
    > > You do have a point, but I feel my dream laptop would be more secure
    > > because any malware that enters the laptop by any method -- such as
    > > the internet -- will completely disappear as soon as I turn off the
    > > power.

    >



    > It sounds like you think malware is the only security risk. Before going
    > further, you need to do a thorough study of computer security.



    Okay.


    >
    > >>> 6. Chips of the hypothetical RAM listed in #3 substitute for the HDD
    > >> So you have no long term storage on the laptop? No data? Or do you burn a
    > >> new CD every time one byte changes in a data file?

    >



    > > Depending on the data I either forget about it or store it on the
    > > internet.



    >
    > What about the security risks of using network storage?



    I think I may be prepared to handle those.


    >
    > > This laptop is meant for extreme security and secrecy. I
    > > want an easy way to totally and permanently eliminate the data in RAM
    > > so that is why I don't want an HDD or any non-volatile RAM for that
    > > matter.



    >
    > People who are professionally paranoid about computer security don't allow
    > Internet connects and no removable media. Everything is is a physically
    > secured room, preferably a Faraday cage with no windows and independent
    > power.
    >
    >



    I'm not that paranoid.


    >
    > >> Even if you could get one at a reasonable price, I don't think you would
    > >> really like using it. I know I wouldn't.

    >



    > > Why not?



    >
    > How do you use it when an Internet connection is unavailable? Or when the
    > place where you store your data is off line? Even if you have a network
    > connection, access to you data is slower than on local storage.



    If there is no net connection or if the data storage device is
    offline, I can simply wait until both issues are resolved. As for the
    data access being slow, that doesn't bother me. Besides I don't plan
    to store large files on the internet.

    Once again, this laptop is clearly meant for those who wish for all
    the info in RAM to be completely and permanently lost 100th-of-a-
    second-or-less after the power is turned off.
    GreenXenon, May 20, 2010
    #11
  12. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On May 19, 6:11 pm, GreenXenon <> wrote:
    >
    > Yes but I don't plan to store anything I treasure the networks.


    Damn Typo!

    That should read "Yes but I don't plan to store anything I treasure
    *on* the networks."
    GreenXenon, May 20, 2010
    #12
  13. GreenXenon

    Wes Groleau Guest

    On 05-19-2010 16:25, Jochem Huhmann wrote:
    > Anyway, I would like to have these features (as well as some others),


    Some of those features are in my MacBook.
    Some are useful, but I don't have them.
    Others are kind of stupid.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Unusual ways of learning?
    http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=96
    Wes Groleau, May 20, 2010
    #13
  14. GreenXenon

    Wes Groleau Guest

    On 05-19-2010 17:17, Alan Browne wrote:
    > An "automatic" version of same using a beam steering (phased array)
    > antenna is feasible but would be large and very expensive. It would be
    > limited to less than a hemisphere. For example the backside of the lid
    > (screen) could be the antenna. With 16 or so patches it could achieve a
    > 20 - 40 degree beam with 18 or so dB gain. Really expensive though.


    While we're at it, let's make the base station equally directional.
    Now you have a laptop that can only be used along a certain line
    segment, and only facing a certain direction.

    Might as well have a desktop with copper.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Unusual ways of learning?
    http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=96
    Wes Groleau, May 20, 2010
    #14
  15. GreenXenon

    Wes Groleau Guest

    On 05-19-2010 21:11, GreenXenon wrote:
    > Yes but I don't plan to store anything I treasure the networks.


    nor, apparently, on the computer, either.

    > I'm not that paranoid.


    Wow, you sure fooled me!

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Unusual ways of learning?
    http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=96
    Wes Groleau, May 20, 2010
    #15
  16. GreenXenon

    Wes Groleau Guest

    On 05-19-2010 21:36, Matthew Russotto wrote:
    > GreenXenon<> wrote:
    >> Why would this hypothetical laptop be so expensive?

    >
    > Tempest shielding, unobtanium RAM, and physics-defying radio antenna
    > account for the largest part of it. Low volume would account for the
    > rest.


    Not to mention the test jig that has to read every RAM address
    exactly 10.01 milliseconds after power-off, and the software that
    analyzes it to guarantee no discernible pattern remains.

    --
    Wes Groleau

    Unusual ways of learning?
    http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=96
    Wes Groleau, May 20, 2010
    #16
  17. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On May 19, 6:36 pm, Wes Groleau <> wrote:


    > On 05-19-2010 21:11, GreenXenon wrote:



    >
    > > Yes but I don't plan to store anything I treasure the networks.

    >



    > nor, apparently, on the computer, either.



    1. I do plan to store files on the internet but not stuff that I feel
    is important
    2. Stuff that I do feel is important, I store on a different computer
    GreenXenon, May 20, 2010
    #17
  18. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On May 19, 6:36 pm, (Matthew Russotto)
    wrote:


    > Tempest shielding, unobtanium RAM, and physics-defying radio antenna
    > account for the largest part of it.  Low volume would account for the
    > rest.



    So the RAM that I want is physically-impossible? Oh no!
    GreenXenon, May 20, 2010
    #18
  19. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On May 19, 7:02 pm, Wes Groleau <> wrote:


    > Not to mention the test jig that has to read every RAM address
    > exactly 10.01 milliseconds after power-off, and the software that
    > analyzes it to guarantee no discernible pattern remains.



    Huh?
    GreenXenon, May 20, 2010
    #19
  20. GreenXenon

    Bruce Burden Guest

    In comp.sys.laptops GreenXenon <> wrote:
    :
    : 1. I do plan to store files on the internet but not stuff that I feel
    : is important
    :
    If you read the service agreement on a "cloud", you will note
    that all your bases belong to us. In other words, the damn lawyers
    decided everyhing stored in the cloud belongs to the cloud provider
    so they can delete it if somebody squawks.

    Perhaps more importantly, you also give up any and all copywrite
    to said data. Not only no, but hell no.

    Of course, it also means said cloud provider can also share
    your data if they want to...
    :
    : 2. Stuff that I do feel is important, I store on a different computer
    :
    Okay. So how do you protect said different computer? As some
    poster noted, truely secure systems aren't on the net, but they
    are in secured rooms, and anything that enters the room that isn't
    flesh or clothes stays in said room.

    At some point, you have to accept that your data is at risk,
    and accept said level of risk. Since you are talking WiFi on your
    dream laptop, I'd think you are already accepting a large element
    of risk, as everything you transmit to the local station is liable
    to interception. Perhaps not right then, but given time, about
    any data can be deciphered.

    Bruce
    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX.
    - Thuganlitha
    The Power and the Prophet
    Robert Don Hughes
    Bruce Burden, May 20, 2010
    #20
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