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Laptops dying of old age

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by SlickRCBD, Oct 15, 2009.

  1. SlickRCBD

    SlickRCBD Guest

    I don't usually have a need for a laptop, so I haven't ever bought
    one. However, over the years I've been given two by people who
    upgraded and no longer had a use for the old, obsolete ones. I've
    noticed that when they started to die, they both exhibited almost the
    exact same problem, and I'm wondering if this is common for laptops
    dying of old age. Also, I'm wondering if the cause is simply because
    the CMOS battery (or if it's called something else, the equivalent of
    the separate battery that keeps the clock's time correct and preserves
    the contents of the BIOS setup info, commonly called NVRAM these days)
    has died.


    The first one was given to me around 1996 and was an MS-DOS based one
    made in the 1980s. It had REALLY big external batteries that hooked
    onto the back and in spite of the former owner's claim of EGA, it only
    had CGA graphics. After a couple years of using it, it started having
    a problem. First the clock was losing the time, then a bit later it
    would refuse to start up more than activating the screen and fan. It
    would not run POST, and would not start the bootstrap process and
    search for MS-DOS either on disk or the hard drive. The backlight on
    the screen would light up and the fan would run, but there would be
    nothing displayed.

    Around 2004, I was given another obsolete laptop. This one was most
    likely made around 1998 or 1999, since it came with Windows 98 First
    Edition. it worked fine, but did not have an ethernet card, much less
    wireless and the person was switching to broadband. Hence why she gave
    it to me. I also didn't have much use for a laptop at the time, and
    not being able to hook it into my network made it even less useful
    since I couldn't get onto the 'net, but she was going to toss it and I
    was in school at the time, so I didn't know if it might come in handy
    or not. It eventually wound up sitting on a shelf in my closet until
    today.

    Lately I've needed to run Microsoft word away from computer access,
    which will only be once a week for about four months, so rather than
    buying a laptop, I pulled that now REALLY obsolete laptop out of
    storage. After charging the main battery, I noticed that the clock was
    messed up. I reset it. I've been using it once a week since September
    and needing to set the clock each time like a REALLY old MS-DOS
    machine, but last week the laptop seemed reluctant to power up.
    The symptoms were the same as with the old MS-DOS based laptop.
    Powering it down and hitting it on the bottom like an old TV set made
    it power up. I don't know if the hitting had any effect or not. or
    just the powering down using the [crash] override.

    This week it took several attemps to get it to power up with people
    looking at me oddly as I tried to get it to boot. I should also add
    that the new laptop gives me no opportunity to get into the BIOS setup
    until it starts to work normally, and when I do, the default settings
    all seem ok.

    Is this a common symtom of laptops when their CMOS batteries die, or
    is it just coincidence that the two old laptops I've been given over
    the years both broke down the same way? I do mean the CMOS batteries,
    not the main batteries that power them when not plugged in. I was able
    to use the laptop tonight for about an hour and fifteen minutes and
    according to Windows battery meter taskbar app the battery still had
    31% power remaining when I shut down. It had read 98% when I finally
    got it to boot at the beginning.
     
    SlickRCBD, Oct 15, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. No, I don't think that what you experienced had anything to do with the
    CMOS batteries (although I can't rule it out entirely). Most laptops
    will work fine with no CMOS batteries at all (but there ARE exceptions).
    Of course time will be lost, and very often you will have to go into
    the BIOS and at least "restore defaults" every time you power the
    machine on, but normally it won't keep you from booting.

    Laptops do have CMOS batteries. For reasons that are to me
    unfathomable, very few laptops allow for these to be externally
    replaced. Worse yet, on some machines they are soldered to the
    motherboard. They may be either single use lithium batteries (coin
    cells, although, again, occasionally soldered in place (but sometimes
    not), or rechargeable (Toshiba is a fan of rechargeable batteries
    (usually NiMH coin cells). In most cases they charge only when the
    laptop is actually ON (not plugged in, but truly ON), they take 48 hours
    to charge fully, and they will then work for 2 to 4 weeks without any
    further charging.).

    A common cause of problems in newer machines is severe overheating. All
    modern laptops have fans and heatsinks, and after 6 to 24 months, the
    heatsinks get clogged up with dust and dirt and hair, in some cases so
    bad that the fan blades can no longer even turn (I've pulled a couple of
    cubic inches of dust / dirt / hair out of them when cleaning them).
    Then things overheat and, sometimes, die. The problem effects both the
    CPU and the chipset. Cleaning the CPU cooling system is easy on some
    laptops (remove an access panel and you can get at everything) and
    nearly impossible on other models (you have to remove the screen from
    the base, disassemble the base, and in some cases actually remove the
    motherboard to get to the fan and heatsink UNDER the motherboard).
    Another problem is failure of BGA (ball grid array) chip mountings.

    However, your laptops are older, and are likely so old as to not have
    these particular problems. Note, with respect to the battery, that if
    the battery has become SO deteriorated that it is leaking corrosive
    electrolyte ... that's a different problem.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that laptops have power supplies just
    like desktops. The battery and AC adapter only provide inputs to these
    power supplies; the internal circuitry runs off of the multiple outputs
    of these power supplies, generally +3.3v and +5v (sometimes +12 also).
    As motherboards and power supplies have had problems with bad
    capacitors, so to can laptops, so this is another potential common problem.
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 15, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. In article <>,
    SlickRCBD <> wrote:
    >
    >Is this a common symtom of laptops when their CMOS batteries die, or


    Some older laptops like the IBM models error out if the CMOS
    battery is dead. Others behave like a desktop and just ask you to
    stop in firmware.
     
    the wharf rat, Oct 15, 2009
    #3
  4. SlickRCBD

    BillW50 Guest

    In
    news:,
    SlickRCBD typed on Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:58:05 -0700 (PDT):
    > I don't usually have a need for a laptop, so I haven't ever bought
    > one. However, over the years I've been given two by people who
    > upgraded and no longer had a use for the old, obsolete ones. I've
    > noticed that when they started to die, they both exhibited almost the
    > exact same problem, and I'm wondering if this is common for laptops
    > dying of old age. Also, I'm wondering if the cause is simply because
    > the CMOS battery (or if it's called something else, the equivalent of
    > the separate battery that keeps the clock's time correct and preserves
    > the contents of the BIOS setup info, commonly called NVRAM these days)
    > has died.
    >
    > The first one was given to me around 1996 and was an MS-DOS based one
    > made in the 1980s. It had REALLY big external batteries that hooked
    > onto the back and in spite of the former owner's claim of EGA, it only
    > had CGA graphics. After a couple years of using it, it started having
    > a problem. First the clock was losing the time, then a bit later it
    > would refuse to start up more than activating the screen and fan. It
    > would not run POST, and would not start the bootstrap process and
    > search for MS-DOS either on disk or the hard drive. The backlight on
    > the screen would light up and the fan would run, but there would be
    > nothing displayed.
    >
    > Around 2004, I was given another obsolete laptop. This one was most
    > likely made around 1998 or 1999, since it came with Windows 98 First
    > Edition. it worked fine, but did not have an ethernet card, much less
    > wireless and the person was switching to broadband. Hence why she gave
    > it to me. I also didn't have much use for a laptop at the time, and
    > not being able to hook it into my network made it even less useful
    > since I couldn't get onto the 'net, but she was going to toss it and I
    > was in school at the time, so I didn't know if it might come in handy
    > or not. It eventually wound up sitting on a shelf in my closet until
    > today.
    >
    > Lately I've needed to run Microsoft word away from computer access,
    > which will only be once a week for about four months, so rather than
    > buying a laptop, I pulled that now REALLY obsolete laptop out of
    > storage. After charging the main battery, I noticed that the clock was
    > messed up. I reset it. I've been using it once a week since September
    > and needing to set the clock each time like a REALLY old MS-DOS
    > machine, but last week the laptop seemed reluctant to power up.
    > The symptoms were the same as with the old MS-DOS based laptop.
    > Powering it down and hitting it on the bottom like an old TV set made
    > it power up. I don't know if the hitting had any effect or not. or
    > just the powering down using the [crash] override.
    >
    > This week it took several attemps to get it to power up with people
    > looking at me oddly as I tried to get it to boot. I should also add
    > that the new laptop gives me no opportunity to get into the BIOS setup
    > until it starts to work normally, and when I do, the default settings
    > all seem ok.
    >
    > Is this a common symtom of laptops when their CMOS batteries die, or
    > is it just coincidence that the two old laptops I've been given over
    > the years both broke down the same way? I do mean the CMOS batteries,
    > not the main batteries that power them when not plugged in. I was able
    > to use the laptop tonight for about an hour and fifteen minutes and
    > according to Windows battery meter taskbar app the battery still had
    > 31% power remaining when I shut down. It had read 98% when I finally
    > got it to boot at the beginning.


    Well I have had 7 laptops since '84 and only one from the 90's cooked
    itself after five years. Toshiba forgot to include a fan to that oven.
    The two from the 80's didn't have fans either, but they run cool anyway.
    All of the rest of them are still running fine.

    Some people have trouble getting laptops to last 5 years. I don't know
    what they do with them actually. Once in awhile you run into a poorly
    designed model like I did once. But that is the exception IMHO rather
    than the rule.

    As Barry mentioned, some models create lots of heat. I stay awhile from
    those models. As they won't last 25 years like one of mine has. And the
    weakest link in most laptops is the lamp inverter and the florescent
    lamp itself. And they generally only last 10,000 to 25,000 hours anyway.
    I use external monitors a lot and it keeps the hours low on the laptops.
    Nowadays, virtually all netbooks and some laptops use bright LEDs
    instead. So this limitation should disappear.

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 15, 2009
    #4
  5. SlickRCBD

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:hb68j4$vnt$-september.org,
    Barry Watzman typed on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:31:24 -0400:
    [...]
    > (Toshiba is a fan of rechargeable batteries (usually NiMH coin cells).
    > In most cases they charge only when the laptop is actually ON (not
    > plugged in, but truly ON), they take 48 hours to charge fully, and
    > they will then work for 2 to 4 weeks without any further charging.).


    Actually, not only powered on, but the screen's lamp must be on. As I
    learned this because I use external monitors a lot. And the CMOS will
    drain completely in say 6 months or so if the screen is never lit. And I
    found 12 hours is good enough to charge up the CMOS/RTC battery for
    another 6 months or so.

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 15, 2009
    #5
  6. SlickRCBD

    Guest

    On Oct 14, 8:58 pm, SlickRCBD <> wrote:
    > I don't usually have a need for a laptop, so I haven't ever bought
    > one. However, over the years I've been given two by people who
    > upgraded and no longer had a use for the old, obsolete ones. I've
    > noticed that when they started to die, they both exhibited almost the
    > exact same problem, and I'm wondering if this is common for laptops
    > dying of old age. Also, I'm wondering if the cause is simply because
    > the CMOS battery (or if it's called something else, the equivalent of
    > the separate battery that keeps the clock's time correct and preserves
    > the contents of the BIOS setup info, commonly called NVRAM these days)
    > has died.
    >
    > The first one was given to me around 1996 and was an MS-DOS based one
    > made in the 1980s. It had REALLY big external batteries that hooked
    > onto the back and in spite of the former owner's claim of EGA, it only
    > had CGA graphics. After a couple years of using it, it started having
    > a problem. First the clock was losing the time, then a bit later it
    > would refuse to start up more than activating the screen and fan. It
    > would not run POST, and would not start the bootstrap process and
    > search for MS-DOS either on disk or the hard drive. The backlight on
    > the screen would light up and the fan would run, but there would be
    > nothing displayed.
    >
    > Around 2004, I was given another obsolete laptop. This one was most
    > likely made around 1998 or 1999, since it came with Windows 98 First
    > Edition.  it worked fine, but did not have an ethernet card, much less
    > wireless and the person was switching to broadband. Hence why she gave
    > it to me. I also didn't have much use for a laptop at the time, and
    > not being able to hook it into my network made it even less useful
    > since I couldn't get onto the 'net, but she was going to toss it and I
    > was in school at the time, so I didn't know if it might come in handy
    > or not. It eventually wound up sitting on a shelf in my closet until
    > today.
    >
    >  Lately I've needed to run Microsoft word away from computer access,
    > which will only be once a week for about four months, so rather than
    > buying a laptop, I pulled that now REALLY obsolete laptop out of
    > storage. After charging the main battery, I noticed that the clock was
    > messed up. I reset it. I've been using it once a week since September
    > and needing to set the clock each time like a REALLY old MS-DOS
    > machine, but last week the laptop seemed reluctant to power up.
    > The symptoms were the same as with the old MS-DOS based laptop.
    > Powering it down and hitting it  on the bottom like an old TV set made
    > it power up. I don't know if the hitting had any effect or not. or
    > just the powering down using the [crash] override.
    >
    > This week it took several attemps to get it to power up with people
    > looking at me oddly as I tried to get it to boot. I should also add
    > that the new laptop gives me no opportunity to get into the BIOS setup
    > until it starts to work normally, and when I do, the default settings
    > all seem ok.
    >
    > Is this a common symtom of laptops when their CMOS batteries die, or
    > is it just coincidence that the two old laptops I've been given over
    > the years both broke down the same way? I do mean the CMOS batteries,
    > not the main batteries that power them when not plugged in. I was able
    > to use the laptop tonight for about an hour and fifteen minutes and
    > according to Windows battery meter taskbar app the battery still had
    > 31% power remaining when I shut down. It had read 98% when I finally
    > got it to boot at the beginning.


    Regarding your laptop w/o internet access and running windows 98, I
    managed to find a PCMCIA wireless card that I was able to get working
    for an old dell laptop Latitude CPi. It was a generic wireless card w/
    o a brand name and made in china, but it works good. The main
    problem I had after connecting to the Internet was getting an uptodate
    browser. The laptop came with IE 5 and will not work with a lot of
    websites and the new IE version will not work with Windows 98. I was
    able to find an old version of netscape in an archived site that works
    reasonably good with websites and compatible with windows 98. So even
    with Internet access, some more up to date websites dont work well
    with older versions of web browsers.

    Larry
     
    , Oct 15, 2009
    #6
  7. SlickRCBD

    SlickRCBD Guest

    On Oct 15, 10:51 am, "" <> wrote:
    > On Oct 14, 8:58 pm, SlickRCBD <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > I don't usually have a need for a laptop, so I haven't ever bought
    > > one. However, over the years I've been given two by people who
    > > upgraded and no longer had a use for the old, obsolete ones. I've
    > > noticed that when they started to die, they both exhibited almost the
    > > exact same problem, and I'm wondering if this is common for laptops
    > > dying of old age. Also, I'm wondering if the cause is simply because
    > > the CMOS battery (or if it's called something else, the equivalent of
    > > the separate battery that keeps the clock's time correct and preserves
    > > the contents of the BIOS setup info, commonly called NVRAM these days)
    > > has died.

    >
    > > The first one was given to me around 1996 and was an MS-DOS based one
    > > made in the 1980s. It had REALLY big external batteries that hooked
    > > onto the back and in spite of the former owner's claim of EGA, it only
    > > had CGA graphics. After a couple years of using it, it started having
    > > a problem. First the clock was losing the time, then a bit later it
    > > would refuse to start up more than activating the screen and fan. It
    > > would not run POST, and would not start the bootstrap process and
    > > search for MS-DOS either on disk or the hard drive. The backlight on
    > > the screen would light up and the fan would run, but there would be
    > > nothing displayed.

    >
    > > Around 2004, I was given another obsolete laptop. This one was most
    > > likely made around 1998 or 1999, since it came with Windows 98 First
    > > Edition. it worked fine, but did not have an ethernet card, much less
    > > wireless and the person was switching to broadband. Hence why she gave
    > > it to me. I also didn't have much use for a laptop at the time, and
    > > not being able to hook it into my network made it even less useful
    > > since I couldn't get onto the 'net, but she was going to toss it and I
    > > was in school at the time, so I didn't know if it might come in handy
    > > or not. It eventually wound up sitting on a shelf in my closet until
    > > today.

    >
    > > Lately I've needed to run Microsoft word away from computer access,
    > > which will only be once a week for about four months, so rather than
    > > buying a laptop, I pulled that now REALLY obsolete laptop out of
    > > storage. After charging the main battery, I noticed that the clock was
    > > messed up. I reset it. I've been using it once a week since September
    > > and needing to set the clock each time like a REALLY old MS-DOS
    > > machine, but last week the laptop seemed reluctant to power up.
    > > The symptoms were the same as with the old MS-DOS based laptop.
    > > Powering it down and hitting it on the bottom like an old TV set made
    > > it power up. I don't know if the hitting had any effect or not. or
    > > just the powering down using the [crash] override.

    >
    > > This week it took several attemps to get it to power up with people
    > > looking at me oddly as I tried to get it to boot. I should also add
    > > that the new laptop gives me no opportunity to get into the BIOS setup
    > > until it starts to work normally, and when I do, the default settings
    > > all seem ok.

    >
    > > Is this a common symtom of laptops when their CMOS batteries die, or
    > > is it just coincidence that the two old laptops I've been given over
    > > the years both broke down the same way? I do mean the CMOS batteries,
    > > not the main batteries that power them when not plugged in. I was able
    > > to use the laptop tonight for about an hour and fifteen minutes and
    > > according to Windows battery meter taskbar app the battery still had
    > > 31% power remaining when I shut down. It had read 98% when I finally
    > > got it to boot at the beginning.

    >
    > Regarding your laptop w/o internet access and running windows 98, I
    > managed to find a PCMCIA wireless card that I was able to get working
    > for an old dell laptop Latitude CPi. It was a generic wireless card w/
    > o a brand name and made in china, but it works good. The main
    > problem I had after connecting to the Internet was getting an uptodate
    > browser. The laptop came with IE 5 and will not work with a lot of
    > websites and the new IE version will not work with Windows 98. I was
    > able to find an old version of netscape in an archived site that works
    > reasonably good with websites and compatible with windows 98. So even
    > with Internet access, some more up to date websites dont work well
    > with older versions of web browsers.
    >
    > Larry


    I'm currently using Firefox 2 on my Windows 98SE Desktop.
    The laptop only has First Edition, and my desktop came with Win98SE
    preinstalled with the only means to reinstall it in the C:\WINDOWS
    \OPTIONS\CABS folder.
    Thus I don't know how to make a Windows CD using Dell OEM Win98SE to
    upgrade an NEC laptop to Second Edition.

    I'd be more interested in details on a PCMCIA ethernet card and
    wireless card if I wasn't having power-up problems.
     
    SlickRCBD, Oct 15, 2009
    #7
  8. SlickRCBD

    BillW50 Guest

    In
    news:,
    SlickRCBD typed on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:15:51 -0700 (PDT):
    > I'm currently using Firefox 2 on my Windows 98SE Desktop.
    > The laptop only has First Edition, and my desktop came with Win98SE
    > preinstalled with the only means to reinstall it in the C:\WINDOWS
    > \OPTIONS\CABS folder.
    > Thus I don't know how to make a Windows CD using Dell OEM Win98SE to
    > upgrade an NEC laptop to Second Edition.


    Dell OEM Windows 98SE files won't work on a NEC anyway in all
    likelihood. Microsoft sold an upgrade (Windows 98 to 98SE) disc for 10
    bucks for like 3 months (over 10 years ago). You might find one on eBay.

    > I'd be more interested in details on a PCMCIA ethernet card and
    > wireless card if I wasn't having power-up problems.


    They are nice. Somebody borrowed mine and I never saw it again. :-(

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 15, 2009
    #8
  9. Actually, MOST laptops running Windows 98 have Cardbus support. Cardbus
    mostly replaced 16-bit PC Cards in 1997. [***MOSTLY***]


    wrote:
    > On Oct 14, 8:58 pm, SlickRCBD <> wrote:
    >
    > Regarding your laptop w/o internet access and running windows 98, I
    > managed to find a PCMCIA wireless card that I was able to get working
    > for an old dell laptop Latitude CPi. It was a generic wireless card w/
    > o a brand name and made in china, but it works good. The main
    > problem I had after connecting to the Internet was getting an uptodate
    > browser. The laptop came with IE 5 and will not work with a lot of
    > websites and the new IE version will not work with Windows 98. I was
    > able to find an old version of netscape in an archived site that works
    > reasonably good with websites and compatible with windows 98. So even
    > with Internet access, some more up to date websites dont work well
    > with older versions of web browsers.
    >
    > Larry
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 16, 2009
    #9
  10. SlickRCBD

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:hb8c3i$f8e$-september.org,
    Barry Watzman typed on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:43:41 -0400:
    > Actually, MOST laptops running Windows 98 have Cardbus support.
    > Cardbus mostly replaced 16-bit PC Cards in 1997. [***MOSTLY***]


    That is okay. Call them whatever you want too. They still work. ;-)

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 16, 2009
    #10
  11. SlickRCBD

    SlickRCBD Guest

    I'm pretty sure it's just a single type-III PCMCIA slot. The thing has
    quite a few connectors on it including a serial port, a parallel port,
    2 USB ports, a docking port, a VGA-style monitor port, a PS/2 port
    (oddly enough only one with symbols for both keyboard & mouse), and an
    S-video port. It also has a built-in 56K modem which was used for
    internet access by the previous owner that appears to have provisions
    to be removed. I think there might be one other port I'm forgetting,
    but I don't feel like pulling it out of the case right now. I won't
    need it again until Wednesday night and I've already moved the files
    to my WIn98SE computer via sneakernet. I'm giving serious
    consideration to buying an external 3.5" drive for my new Gateway
    since it's the first computer I've ever owned without one.
    It's an NEC Ready 440T
    Quite nice for the era it was from.
    On Oct 15, 6:43 pm, Barry Watzman <> wrote:
    > Actually, MOST laptops running Windows 98 have Cardbus support. Cardbus
    > mostly replaced 16-bit PC Cards in 1997. [***MOSTLY***]
    >
    > wrote:
    > > On Oct 14, 8:58 pm, SlickRCBD <> wrote:

    >
    > > Regarding your laptop w/o internet access and running windows 98, I
    > > managed to find a PCMCIA wireless card that I was able to get working
    > > for an old dell laptop Latitude CPi. It was a generic wireless card w/
    > > o a brand name and made in china, but it works good. The main
    > > problem I had after connecting to the Internet was getting an uptodate
    > > browser. The laptop came with IE 5 and will not work with a lot of
    > > websites and the new IE version will not work with Windows 98. I was
    > > able to find an old version of netscape in an archived site that works
    > > reasonably good with websites and compatible with windows 98. So even
    > > with Internet access, some more up to date websites dont work well
    > > with older versions of web browsers.

    >
    > > Larry
     
    SlickRCBD, Oct 16, 2009
    #11
  12. SlickRCBD

    Larry Guest

    Barry Watzman <> wrote in news:hb68j4$vnt$1
    @news.eternal-september.org:

    > A common cause of problems in newer machines is severe overheating.

    All
    > modern laptops have fans and heatsinks, and after 6 to 24 months, the
    > heatsinks get clogged up with dust and dirt and hair, in some cases so
    > bad that the fan blades can no longer even turn (I've pulled a couple

    of
    > cubic inches of dust / dirt / hair out of them when cleaning them).
    > Then things overheat and, sometimes, die. The problem effects both

    the
    > CPU and the chipset. Cleaning the CPU cooling system is easy on some
    > laptops (remove an access panel and you can get at everything) and
    > nearly impossible on other models (you have to remove the screen from
    > the base, disassemble the base, and in some cases actually remove the
    > motherboard to get to the fan and heatsink UNDER the motherboard).
    > Another problem is failure of BGA (ball grid array) chip mountings.
    >


    My reply is not about anyone here, much smarter people than the average
    laptop owner/user.......that said:

    Watch other people use their laptops. They have them in their laps!
    Make a note of make/model so you can look on the bottom of them where
    their legs are covering up the FAN INTAKES the laptop maker IDIOTS put
    perfectly placed so you cannot lay one on your lap and type on it
    without covering up the COOLING INTAKE. Who designs these things? Do
    they ever use one?!

    Next point - Laptop cooling gadgets. Have some fun on your next trip to
    the computer mall outlet. Look at your computer, SUCKING air from under
    it to cool it. Now, find any cooling gadget that BLOWS air INTO that
    intake. Check them out...we'll wait. MOST of the ones I've seen these
    people are using SUCK air OUT of the fan INTAKE and blow DOWN, not up!
    NONE of them, luckily, have the fans positioned to match the cooling fan
    intakes of real laptops sitting on it. How stupid.

    Point 3 - How many people do you know who operate their laptop on a SOFT
    SURFACE?....Carseat, couch cushion, bed, etc. How can the fan suck air
    through a plastic carseat or those fancy satin sheets pushed up against
    the intake grate?!

    No wonder the damned things overheat! STUPID design, Stupid users....a
    disaster in the melting....

    Ah, but now there are netbooks with cooler, SLOWER processors that don't
    have air pouring out of them that can shrink shrink tubing around a
    solder connection....a more SANE, sedate way to look through that data
    pinhole into the internet. Add the biggest aftermarket battery so it
    TILTS the netbook up off the bed and the fan can even breathe...what
    little it's turned on.



    --
    Larry
     
    Larry, Oct 16, 2009
    #12
  13. SlickRCBD

    Bob Villa Guest

    >Larry the Ranter wrote:
    Next point - Laptop cooling gadgets. Have some fun on your next trip
    to
    the computer mall outlet. Look at your computer, SUCKING air from
    under
    it to cool it. Now, find any cooling gadget that BLOWS air INTO that
    intake. Check them out...we'll wait. MOST of the ones I've seen
    these
    people are using SUCK air OUT of the fan INTAKE and blow DOWN, not
    up!
    NONE of them, luckily, have the fans positioned to match the cooling
    fan
    intakes of real laptops sitting on it. How stupid.

    No matter which direction the fan blows...as long as it doesn't
    directly suck where the laptop sucks...it will allow better air flow.
    (no, I don't sell these things!)

    bob_v
     
    Bob Villa, Oct 16, 2009
    #13
  14. SlickRCBD

    BillW50 Guest

    In
    news:,
    Bob Villa typed on Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:59:32 -0700 (PDT):
    >> Larry the Ranter wrote:
    >> Next point - Laptop cooling gadgets. Have some fun on your next trip
    >> to the computer mall outlet. Look at your computer, SUCKING air from
    >> under it to cool it. Now, find any cooling gadget that BLOWS air
    >> INTO that intake. Check them out...we'll wait. MOST of the ones
    >> I've seen these people are using SUCK air OUT of the fan INTAKE and
    >> blow DOWN, not up! NONE of them, luckily, have the fans positioned to
    >> match the cooling fan intakes of real laptops sitting on it. How
    >> stupid.

    >
    > No matter which direction the fan blows...as long as it doesn't
    > directly suck where the laptop sucks...it will allow better air flow.
    > (no, I don't sell these things!)


    Do you use these laptop cooler things Bob?

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 16, 2009
    #14
  15. SlickRCBD

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:Xns9CA617A87AD25noonehomecom@74.209.131.13,
    Larry typed on Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:19:31 +0000:
    > My reply is not about anyone here, much smarter people than the
    > average laptop owner/user.......that said:
    >
    > Watch other people use their laptops. They have them in their laps!
    > Make a note of make/model so you can look on the bottom of them where
    > their legs are covering up the FAN INTAKES the laptop maker IDIOTS put
    > perfectly placed so you cannot lay one on your lap and type on it
    > without covering up the COOLING INTAKE. Who designs these things? Do
    > they ever use one?!


    My two Gateway MX6124 and four netbooks work well off of your lap. I
    monitor the temp sensors and they are fine with it. Although I have had
    some laptops that doesn't take too kindly of sitting on your lap.

    > Next point - Laptop cooling gadgets. Have some fun on your next trip
    > to the computer mall outlet. Look at your computer, SUCKING air from
    > under it to cool it. Now, find any cooling gadget that BLOWS air
    > INTO that intake. Check them out...we'll wait. MOST of the ones
    > I've seen these people are using SUCK air OUT of the fan INTAKE and
    > blow DOWN, not up! NONE of them, luckily, have the fans positioned to
    > match the cooling fan intakes of real laptops sitting on it. How
    > stupid.


    It doesn't make a lot of sense to have two fans (or more) playing
    tug-of-war with each other, does it?

    > Point 3 - How many people do you know who operate their laptop on a
    > SOFT SURFACE?....Carseat, couch cushion, bed, etc. How can the fan
    > suck air through a plastic carseat or those fancy satin sheets pushed
    > up against the intake grate?!


    I hate this limitation! I created two longer feet for the back end of my
    Gateway laptops that raises it up about two inches. And it does wonders
    for the temperature. It even stays cool lying on the bed.

    My four Asus EeePCs are okay on a soft surface. So no major problems
    there. Some even run them without the fan connected and have good
    results by doing so.

    > No wonder the damned things overheat! STUPID design, Stupid
    > users....a disaster in the melting....


    One thing you haven't mentioned that even on a hard flat surface, most
    machines still gets very hot. Manufactures seem to want to make the
    machines hug the table/desk as close as possible. Thus there is only a
    sliver of space between the bottom and the hard surface and it traps
    lots of heat under there. When you increase the space like I did with
    the Gateways, their CPU temperature dropped by 15°F.

    > Ah, but now there are netbooks with cooler, SLOWER processors that
    > don't have air pouring out of them that can shrink shrink tubing
    > around a solder connection....a more SANE, sedate way to look through
    > that data pinhole into the internet. Add the biggest aftermarket
    > battery so it TILTS the netbook up off the bed and the fan can even
    > breathe...what little it's turned on.


    Ah, but Asus EeePC Celeron netbooks are great. They don't need much air
    flow, can block the vents and very little or no measurable increase of
    temperature is detected. Those under clocked Celeron CPUs helps a lot in
    this regard. As they just don't create enough heat to do any real
    damage. I do clock them up to speed sometimes and then you need to have
    the fan running and the vents unblocked. But they do run well under
    clocked, so no real need to do this.

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 16, 2009
    #15
  16. SlickRCBD

    Bob Villa Guest

    >One thing you haven't mentioned that even on a hard flat surface, most
    >machines still gets very hot
    >Those under clocked Celeron CPUs helps a lot in
    >this regard. .


    No Bill, I don't use any of those coolers.

    Is English your native language Bill? Above examples usually mean
    otherwise.
    Not a criticism...just an observation.

    bob_v
     
    Bob Villa, Oct 16, 2009
    #16
  17. SlickRCBD

    BillW50 Guest

    In
    news:,
    Bob Villa typed on Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT):
    >> One thing you haven't mentioned that even on a hard flat surface,
    >> most machines still gets very hot
    >> Those under clocked Celeron CPUs helps a lot in
    >> this regard. .

    >
    > No Bill, I don't use any of those coolers.
    >
    > Is English your native language Bill? Above examples usually mean
    > otherwise.
    > Not a criticism...just an observation.
    >
    > bob_v


    You mean academic English? Nope! Both Mark Twain and I believe...

    "In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he
    made school boards." -- Mark Twain

    "I never let schooling interfere with my education." -- Mark Twain

    "I have no respect for a man who can only spell a word one way!" -- Mark
    Twain

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Oct 16, 2009
    #17
  18. SlickRCBD

    Larry Guest

    "BillW50" <> wrote in news:hb9rbn$2f1$-
    september.org:

    > I hate this limitation! I created two longer feet for the back end of my
    > Gateway laptops that raises it up about two inches. And it does wonders
    > for the temperature. It even stays cool lying on the bed.
    >


    At any electrical department of a hardware store, there's the ideal
    solution, Wiremold! These plastic strips come in two parts, the base with
    the sticky tape on them and the cover that snaps onto the base.

    What I did was to cut a 1.5" wiremold strip the width of the laptop. I
    used 1.5" because that was how wide the fan intake hole was in this
    particular laptop. Match yours.

    So, now you have a rectangular tube with the ends open. Cut away the base
    (with the sticky tape) as wide as the fan intake hole, but not the cover.
    Stick the two pieces of base on either side of the intake hole, in line,
    with the open end at the left and right edge of the case. The tape holds
    very well and when it fails a little contact cement holds it firm to the
    case. Snap the full width cover into place over the base and fan hole.

    Voila! You now have a dual-way intake air plenum the bedclothes cannot
    block. Sit your laptop on any soft surface you wish. Air is drawn in the
    open ends on either side of the laptop, NOT THE DUST OFF THE DESK SURFACE
    UNDER THE DAMNED FAN HOLE, not only keeping the unit cool on any soft
    surface but also reducing by a LOT the sucking of dust and dirt into the
    CPU heat sink and fan blades. As the Wiremold strips are only about 1/4"
    thick, you don't end up with a nasty tilt stand and the unit lays nearly
    flat on your desk on the wiremold intake plenum.....(c;]


    --
    Larry
     
    Larry, Oct 16, 2009
    #18
  19. If the laptop had USB ports, it is a near certainty that the PC Card
    slot was a Cardbus slot.


    SlickRCBD wrote:
    > I'm pretty sure it's just a single type-III PCMCIA slot. The thing has
    > quite a few connectors on it including a serial port, a parallel port,
    > 2 USB ports, a docking port, a VGA-style monitor port, a PS/2 port
    > (oddly enough only one with symbols for both keyboard & mouse), and an
    > S-video port. It also has a built-in 56K modem which was used for
    > internet access by the previous owner that appears to have provisions
    > to be removed. I think there might be one other port I'm forgetting,
    > but I don't feel like pulling it out of the case right now. I won't
    > need it again until Wednesday night and I've already moved the files
    > to my WIn98SE computer via sneakernet. I'm giving serious
    > consideration to buying an external 3.5" drive for my new Gateway
    > since it's the first computer I've ever owned without one.
    > It's an NEC Ready 440T
    > Quite nice for the era it was from.
    > On Oct 15, 6:43 pm, Barry Watzman <> wrote:
    >> Actually, MOST laptops running Windows 98 have Cardbus support. Cardbus
    >> mostly replaced 16-bit PC Cards in 1997. [***MOSTLY***]
    >>
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 17, 2009
    #19
  20. SlickRCBD

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs wrote:
    [snip]
    > Regarding your laptop w/o internet access and running windows 98, I
    > managed to find a PCMCIA wireless card that I was able to get working
    > for an old dell laptop Latitude CPi. It was a generic wireless card w/
    > o a brand name and made in china, but it works good.

    [snip]

    My oldest laptop is a Latitude CPi A PII 400MHz ('Dixon', great CPU for it's
    time) and I have a 3Com PCMCIA WiFi card in that too. Although the OS on
    that is 98SE 2 ME, a hybrid system that is mainly the 98SE that it came with
    but it uses the few things that ME improved on and integrates them into 98SE
    (Google will tell you about it).

    I have the newest version of Firefox that will run on 9x on it. I can't
    remember the version number and I'm short a clover-leaf power cord right now
    and can't be bothered pinching one off one of my ThinkPads and firing it up.
    <g> Actually, the battery on that machine is still good for about 90 minutes
    or more (I can watch an avi movie on it on battery).
    --
    Shaun.

    "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 17, 2009
    #20
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