Lion oh my

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Warren Oates, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. Warren Oates

    Warren Oates Guest

    I upgraded to Lion in my usual way: I cloned my SL boot drive (with Disk
    Utility), verified its bootable integrity and all, installed Lion on top
    of the clone, and booted with it.

    Went very well. The upside-down scroll bars got me at first, but I use
    the scroll-wheel on my mouse anyway. Only a few apps were greyed out,
    some of which I've forgotten what they do; my Office 2004 is gone, but
    it's time for a new one anyway, and in the meantime I can use
    LibreThing. I couldn't find Spaces at first (I know, I found the
    replacement -- it's a little overblown for my taste, but it works).
    Launchpad is silly -- I never used The Launcher either, like I've never
    used Dashboard. But it's easy to ignore.

    But HELLO ... this system is NOTICEABLY faster than anything I've run on
    this machine before (started with Tiger -- MacPro 1,1). This isn't just
    the ol' Warren's Benchmark ("Hmm, seems a bit faster"); _everything_
    seems snappier. This feels snappy in the way 9.2.2 used to feel snappy
    when we first moved to OS X. The apps launch faster; Web pages load
    faster; MTNW loads faster. It was so nocticeable that I even went and
    checked my broadband connection (which hasn't changed).

    They've done some serious messing around "under the hood" methinks.
    There was nothing like this when I went from Leopard to SL.

    Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.

    [I have one of these:

    http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1268&ID=1731

    I paid less than half of that price from TigerDirect. It's a great thing
    to have around when you're messing with disk replacements and system
    upgrades. Plus, it can't hurt to have a couple of 250 gig drives lying
    around. I'm using the USB 2 side of it. If I thought it would be useful,
    I'd get an eSATA card for the Mac.]
    --

    .... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
     
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  2. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2012-06-17 17:08 , Warren Oates wrote:

    > But HELLO ... this system is NOTICEABLY faster than anything I've run on
    > this machine before (started with Tiger -- MacPro 1,1). This isn't just
    > the ol' Warren's Benchmark ("Hmm, seems a bit faster"); _everything_
    > seems snappier. This feels snappy in the way 9.2.2 used to feel snappy
    > when we first moved to OS X. The apps launch faster; Web pages load
    > faster; MTNW loads faster. It was so nocticeable that I even went and
    > checked my broadband connection (which hasn't changed).


    Can't say anything is noticeably faster - but certainly nothing slowed down.


    >
    > They've done some serious messing around "under the hood" methinks.
    > There was nothing like this when I went from Leopard to SL.
    >
    > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.
    >
    > [I have one of these:
    >
    > http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1268&ID=1731


    I've got a similar widget (EZ-Dock-2) but it's USB 2.0 only. Takes 1 or
    2 disks. I've got two 2 TB drives in there at present.

    >
    > I paid less than half of that price from TigerDirect. It's a great thing
    > to have around when you're messing with disk replacements and system
    > upgrades. Plus, it can't hurt to have a couple of 250 gig drives lying
    > around. I'm using the USB 2 side of it. If I thought it would be useful,
    > I'd get an eSATA card for the Mac.]
    >



    --
    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    -Samuel Clemens.
     
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  3. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2012-06-17 17:08 , Warren Oates wrote:
    > I upgraded to Lion in my usual way: I cloned my SL boot drive (with Disk
    > Utility), verified its bootable integrity and all, installed Lion on top
    > of the clone, and booted with it.
    >
    > Went very well. The upside-down scroll bars got me at first, but I use
    > the scroll-wheel on my mouse anyway. Only a few apps were greyed out,
    > some of which I've forgotten what they do; my Office 2004 is gone, but
    > it's time for a new one anyway, and in the meantime I can use
    > LibreThing. I couldn't find Spaces at first (I know, I found the
    > replacement -- it's a little overblown for my taste, but it works).
    > Launchpad is silly -- I never used The Launcher either, like I've never
    > used Dashboard. But it's easy to ignore.
    >
    > But HELLO ... this system is NOTICEABLY faster than anything I've run on
    > this machine before (started with Tiger -- MacPro 1,1). This isn't just
    > the ol' Warren's Benchmark ("Hmm, seems a bit faster"); _everything_
    > seems snappier. This feels snappy in the way 9.2.2 used to feel snappy
    > when we first moved to OS X. The apps launch faster; Web pages load
    > faster; MTNW loads faster. It was so nocticeable that I even went and
    > checked my broadband connection (which hasn't changed).
    >
    > They've done some serious messing around "under the hood" methinks.
    > There was nothing like this when I went from Leopard to SL.
    >
    > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.


    When you shutdown, uncheck the 'reload apps' checkbox.

    >
    > [I have one of these:
    >
    > http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1268&ID=1731
    >
    > I paid less than half of that price from TigerDirect. It's a great thing
    > to have around when you're messing with disk replacements and system
    > upgrades. Plus, it can't hurt to have a couple of 250 gig drives lying
    > around. I'm using the USB 2 side of it. If I thought it would be useful,
    > I'd get an eSATA card for the Mac.]
    >



    --
    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    -Samuel Clemens.
     
  4. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    In message <4fde474d$0$1732$c3e8da3$>
    Warren Oates <> wrote:
    > But HELLO ... this system is NOTICEABLY faster than anything I've run on
    > this machine before (started with Tiger -- MacPro 1,1).


    Yep, it was a big jump. Albeit, every OS X version has been faster than the previous one(s) on the same hardware, but the delta with Lion was quite noticeable.

    Very much looking forward to 10.8 :)

    > They've done some serious messing around "under the hood" methinks.


    All that carbon cruft is gone, that's part of it.

    > There was nothing like this when I went from Leopard to SL.


    No, 10.6 was much more of a tweek than previous versions.

    > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.


    It's not simple and I don't recommend it.

    --
    The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip
    through your fingers.
    He felt as if he'd been shipwrecked on the Titanic but in the nick of
    time had been rescued. By the Lusitania.
     
  5. Warren Oates

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <>,
    Alan Browne <> wrote:

    > On 2012-06-17 17:08 , Warren Oates wrote:
    >
    > > But HELLO ... this system is NOTICEABLY faster than anything I've run on
    > > this machine before (started with Tiger -- MacPro 1,1). This isn't just
    > > the ol' Warren's Benchmark ("Hmm, seems a bit faster"); _everything_
    > > seems snappier. This feels snappy in the way 9.2.2 used to feel snappy
    > > when we first moved to OS X. The apps launch faster; Web pages load
    > > faster; MTNW loads faster. It was so nocticeable that I even went and
    > > checked my broadband connection (which hasn't changed).

    >
    > Can't say anything is noticeably faster - but certainly nothing slowed down.


    The thing is, I didn't start with a "clean" system and reinstall or
    migrate applications and whatnot. I just dropped Lion on top of SL
    (which had previously been dropped on top of Leopard). The networking is
    certainly faster.
    --

    .... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
     
  6. Warren Oates

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <>,
    Alan Browne <> wrote:

    > When you shutdown, uncheck the 'reload apps' checkbox.


    Ah, I see, thanks. I haven't restarted, just looked at it. Does that
    persist across restarts?
    --

    .... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
     
  7. Warren Oates

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <>,
    Lewis <> wrote:

    > > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    > > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.

    >
    > It's not simple and I don't recommend it.


    Simple isn't something I'm worried about. I have cron jobs that back up
    my wife's outboard drives every 6 hours; I've compiled my own version of
    GCC 4.7.0 (very tasty, and all my /usr/local stuff works just fine in
    Lion).

    Aside from that, why would you not recommend it? I find it a minor
    annoyance. I'm an old Mac guy from the Fat Mac; I've always relied on
    the cleanliness of my Desktop (why I like Spaces); I don't want to see
    Chrome and Eddie and Witopia and all my spanking videos popping up all
    over the screen.

    Mind you, I don't restart that often. It's not System 7, after all.
    --

    .... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
     
  8. nospam

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Lewis
    <> wrote:

    > > They've done some serious messing around "under the hood" methinks.

    >
    > All that carbon cruft is gone, that's part of it.


    carbon is still there. maybe you're thinking rosetta.

    > > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    > > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.

    >
    > It's not simple and I don't recommend it.


    because checkboxes are so hard.
     
  9. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    In message <4fde569c$0$2092$c3e8da3$>
    Warren Oates <> wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Alan Browne <> wrote:


    >> When you shutdown, uncheck the 'reload apps' checkbox.


    > Ah, I see, thanks. I haven't restarted, just looked at it. Does that
    > persist across restarts?


    Nope.

    --
    'What can I do? I'm only human,' he said aloud. Someone said, Not all
    of you. --Pyramids
    You know, Rick, I have many a friend in Casablanca, but somehow, just
    because you despise me, you are the only one I trust.
     
  10. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    In message <4fde57cd$0$2092$c3e8da3$>
    Warren Oates <> wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Lewis <> wrote:


    >> > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    >> > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.

    >>
    >> It's not simple and I don't recommend it.


    > Simple isn't something I'm worried about. I have cron jobs that back up
    > my wife's outboard drives every 6 hours; I've compiled my own version of
    > GCC 4.7.0 (very tasty, and all my /usr/local stuff works just fine in
    > Lion).


    > Aside from that, why would you not recommend it?


    Disabling requires a loginhook into the /System that erases files from
    your Library.

    > I find it a minor
    > annoyance. I'm an old Mac guy from the Fat Mac; I've always relied on
    > the cleanliness of my Desktop (why I like Spaces); I don't want to see
    > Chrome and Eddie and Witopia and all my spanking videos popping up all
    > over the screen.


    It will not reopen any apps you quite before restarting.

    > Mind you, I don't restart that often. It's not System 7, after all.


    Right. I actaully like the new behavior because with it and Resume, when
    I *do* restart I am pretty much back exactly where I was before.

    --
    'They've given us the answers,' he [Carrot] said. 'Perhaps we can find
    out what the questions should have been.' --Feet of Clay
    Chefet, Chefet, thought Dios. Maker of rings, weaver of metal. Now he's
    out of our heads, and see how his nails grow into claws...
     
  11. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    In message <170620121824003452%>
    nospam <> wrote:
    > In article <>, Lewis
    > <> wrote:


    >> > They've done some serious messing around "under the hood" methinks.

    >>
    >> All that carbon cruft is gone, that's part of it.


    > carbon is still there. maybe you're thinking rosetta.


    >> > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    >> > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.

    >>
    >> It's not simple and I don't recommend it.


    > because checkboxes are so hard.


    That only applies to THAT reboot. Actaully disabling it is rather more
    complicated.

    --
    The King of Marigold was in the kitchen cooking breakfast for the Queen
    The Queen was in the parlor playing piano for the children of the King
    I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said, 'Eh
    you're so funny.' I said, 'Yeah? Well I can't see anyone else smiling in
    here.'
     
  12. Davoud

    Davoud Guest

    Warren Oates:

    > I upgraded to Lion in my usual way...


    > Went very well...


    > ... this system is NOTICEABLY faster than anything I've run on
    > this machine


    So what's next? Install Mountain Lion a few days before it is obsoleted
    and then learn that you've been missing a lot of great stuff
    needlessly? Keep up. There have been bumps in the road because this is
    real life, but generally speaking it's been a smooth enough ride up
    through the various OS versions.

    --
    I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
    you will say in your entire life.

    usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
     
  13. Warren Oates

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <170620121932200025%>, Davoud <>
    wrote:

    > So what's next? Install Mountain Lion a few days before it is obsoleted
    > and then learn that you've been missing a lot of great stuff
    > needlessly? Keep up. There have been bumps in the road because this is
    > real life, but generally speaking it's been a smooth enough ride up
    > through the various OS versions.


    Mountain Lion won't run on my MacPro 1,1.

    And I have never done an upgrade before that resulted in a noticeable
    increase in absolute speed in some areas. I've never cared about more
    features, and I've never trusted Apple to do anything that was in my
    interest.

    When we moved from 9.2.2 to OS X, everything seemed slower (on the ol'
    Sawtooth that we had then). On the other hand, when we moved to OS X, I
    ditched Linux.
    --

    .... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
     
  14. David Empson

    David Empson Guest

    Lewis <> wrote:

    > In message <4fde474d$0$1732$c3e8da3$>
    > Warren Oates <> wrote:
    > > But HELLO ... this system is NOTICEABLY faster than anything I've run on
    > > this machine before (started with Tiger -- MacPro 1,1).

    >
    > Yep, it was a big jump. Albeit, every OS X version has been faster than
    > the previous one(s) on the same hardware, but the delta with Lion was
    > quite noticeable.
    >
    > Very much looking forward to 10.8 :)


    True for most of us, but 10.8 won't run on Warren's "MacPro1,1" (the
    August 2006 model).

    > > They've done some serious messing around "under the hood" methinks.

    >
    > All that carbon cruft is gone, that's part of it.


    Lion still supports Carbon (e.g. anything using QuickTime has at least
    some Carbon code).

    Lion dropped all PowerPC code and associated translation via Rosetta. If
    you weren't running any PowerPC apps before, the loss of Rosetta would
    have made no difference to performance. If you replaced a PowerPC app
    with an Intel build of the same app, it would perform faster and there
    would be less CPU overhead to slow down the rest of the system, but I
    doubt it would make a noticeable difference unless your CPUs are often
    being maxed out with other tasks.

    --
    David Empson
     
  15. nospam

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Lewis
    <> wrote:

    > >> > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    > >> > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.
    > >>
    > >> It's not simple and I don't recommend it.

    >
    > > because checkboxes are so hard.

    >
    > That only applies to THAT reboot. Actaully disabling it is rather more
    > complicated.


    actually it isn't. that bug was fixed in 10.7.4, so now that checkbox
    now works as it should.
     
  16. Warren Oates

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <1klvsm4.w2reo61dkpzs8N%>,
    (David Empson) wrote:

    > Lion dropped all PowerPC code and associated translation via Rosetta. If
    > you weren't running any PowerPC apps before, the loss of Rosetta would
    > have made no difference to performance. If you replaced a PowerPC app
    > with an Intel build of the same app, it would perform faster and there
    > would be less CPU overhead to slow down the rest of the system, but I
    > doubt it would make a noticeable difference unless your CPUs are often
    > being maxed out with other tasks.


    The networking is faster. Everything seems faster. When I double-double
    on a PDF file, Acrobat just OPENS and doesn't go
    clickety-clickety-clickety-oh-here-we-are. When I mount my wife's HD on
    my Desktop, it just appears, without the clickety stuff. Realio trulio,
    I didn't expect this kind of difference.

    Apps launching faster, I could put down to the Rosetta thing, but that
    wouldn't affect the way web pages in Chrome load faster. I haven't even
    opened Safari yet. It was always pretty fast.
    --

    .... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
     
  17. nospam

    nospam Guest

    In article <4fde74e3$0$1503$c3e8da3$>, Warren
    Oates <> wrote:

    > Apps launching faster, I could put down to the Rosetta thing,


    only for the first rosetta app. otherwise it's inert.
     
  18. Davoud

    Davoud Guest

    Davoud:
    > > So what's next? Install Mountain Lion a few days before it is obsoleted
    > > and then learn that you've been missing a lot of great stuff
    > > needlessly? Keep up. There have been bumps in the road because this is
    > > real life, but generally speaking it's been a smooth enough ride up
    > > through the various OS versions.


    Warren Oates:
    > Mountain Lion won't run on my MacPro 1,1.


    In that case "keep up" means "get a new Mac."

    > And I have never done an upgrade before that resulted in a noticeable
    > increase in absolute speed in some areas. I've never cared about more
    > features, and I've never trusted Apple to do anything that was in my
    > interest.


    Oops! My mistake. Bumps in the road have been few enough for me that I
    have forgotten them compared to the benefits I have enjoyed by keeping
    up-to-date with Mac hardware and software over the years. Your
    experience has been different and I wonder why you stay with Apple. If
    I did not trust Apple to do anything that was in my interest I would be
    a Windows user in a New York minute. XP SP2 and 3 were big
    improvements, Vista a disaster that I skipped, Win 7 a huge
    improvement. Win 7 is an OS I could easily live with if Apple did not
    meet my needs. Haven't tried Win 8 yet; coming soon.

    > When we moved from 9.2.2 to OS X, everything seemed slower (on the ol'
    > Sawtooth that we had then). On the other hand, when we moved to OS X, I
    > ditched Linux.


    Ah, well, Linux was never on my radar. No Photoshop or any other pro
    graphics software, no pro video software, no pro audio, no iTunes. A
    very sensible way to run unattended servers and specialized process
    control systems on the cheap, I wouldn't doubt.

    --
    I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
    you will say in your entire life.

    usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
     
  19. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    In message <4fde6a38$0$1722$c3e8da3$>
    Warren Oates <> wrote:

    > Mountain Lion won't run on my MacPro 1,1.


    Yeah, i'm in the same boat. I hope someone figures out how to hack it
    on, but I have no confidence they will.


    --
    I NO LONGER WANT MY MTV Bart chalkboard Ep. 3G02
    It was all very well going about pure logic and how the universe was
    ruled by logic and the harmony of numbers, but the plain fact was that
    the disc was manifestly traversing space on the back of a giant turtle
    and the gods had a habit of going round to atheists' houses and smashing
    their windows.
     
  20. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    In message <170620122003422374%>
    nospam <> wrote:
    > In article <>, Lewis
    > <> wrote:


    >> >> > Okay, but where do you go to turn off that thing where all your open
    >> >> > apps relaunch when you restart? I read about that here.
    >> >>
    >> >> It's not simple and I don't recommend it.


    >> > because checkboxes are so hard.


    >> That only applies to THAT reboot. Actaully disabling it is rather more
    >> complicated.


    > actually it isn't. that bug was fixed in 10.7.4, so now that checkbox
    > now works as it should.


    Oh? Nifty. I had no idea.

    --
    "I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a
    friend.... if you have one." - GB Shaw to Churchill "Cannot possibly
    attend first night, will attend second... if there is one." - Winston
    Churchill, in response.
    If fashion is your trade then when you're naked I guess you must be
    unemployed.
     
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