My continuing complaint about Apple keybords

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Salmon Egg, May 13, 2012.

  1. Salmon Egg

    Salmon Egg Guest

    With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards, I want to bring
    um my major complaint and ask questions about the "aluminum" keyboard. I
    think it is a great keyboard in all but one disasterous way. The keys
    are too large. If the keys were approximately circular and half the area
    they are now, I would have no complaints. Making the keyboard highly
    attractive caused the failing.

    My complaint is that the keys are just too large in area and too flat so
    that it is easy for fingers to drift onto adjacent keys, thereby adding
    unwanted letters too often. My eyes are lousy enough so that I do not
    see the letter markings on the keys. I can see the key outlines well
    enough so that if I watch my fingers, I can remain centered on the keys.
    My fingers "know" approximately where to go, but not well enough to
    avoid the edges and drift onto adjacent keys. With smaller keys I would
    get tactile feedback when my fingers are drifting off center.

    How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?

    I want to know if my problem is because I just am an inept typist or
    whether others avoid it by watching their fingers at work.

    --

    Sam

    Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
    Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.
    Salmon Egg, May 13, 2012
    #1
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  2. Salmon Egg

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    Salmon Egg <> wrote:

    > With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards, I want to bring
    > um my major complaint and ask questions about the "aluminum" keyboard. I
    > think it is a great keyboard in all but one disasterous way. The keys
    > are too large. If the keys were approximately circular and half the area
    > they are now, I would have no complaints. Making the keyboard highly
    > attractive caused the failing.


    I have fairly large hands, and find the Apple keyboards absolutely
    perfect. It's the little laptop ones that I can't get on with.

    Sometimes it can just be a matter of getting used to a slightly
    different feel, or simply having to find a keyboard that suits *you*.

    --
    Andy Hewitt
    <www.andy-hewitt.me.uk>
    Andy Hewitt, May 13, 2012
    #2
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  3. Salmon Egg

    sbt Guest

    In article <>,
    Salmon Egg <> wrote:

    > With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards, I want to bring
    > um my major complaint and ask questions about the "aluminum" keyboard. I
    > think it is a great keyboard in all but one disasterous way. The keys
    > are too large. If the keys were approximately circular and half the area
    > they are now, I would have no complaints. Making the keyboard highly
    > attractive caused the failing.
    >
    > My complaint is that the keys are just too large in area and too flat so
    > that it is easy for fingers to drift onto adjacent keys, thereby adding
    > unwanted letters too often. My eyes are lousy enough so that I do not
    > see the letter markings on the keys. I can see the key outlines well
    > enough so that if I watch my fingers, I can remain centered on the keys.
    > My fingers "know" approximately where to go, but not well enough to
    > avoid the edges and drift onto adjacent keys. With smaller keys I would
    > get tactile feedback when my fingers are drifting off center.
    >
    > How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    > those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    > keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?
    >
    > I want to know if my problem is because I just am an inept typist or
    > whether others avoid it by watching their fingers at work.


    At first glance, I also thought the keys were too large, but ultimately
    discovered that they are the same size at the base as the keys on the
    Saratoga and the Extended USB keyboards I really like...it's the lack
    of beveling that makes them larger at the top. Additionally, the lack
    of concavity on the surfaces detracts seriously (for me) when it comes
    to placement and tactile sensitivity. BTW, the keys are the same
    size/shape (I measured them) as the ones on my MacBook, which I also
    seriously dislike...I carry a USB keyboard and trackball in the laptop
    case and only use the built-in keyboard and trackpad when there's no
    room to set up the alternative.

    I bought up a few USB Extendeds when an Apple Reseller was doing a
    "going out of business" sale, so I'm set for the time being :)

    --
    Spenser
    sbt, May 14, 2012
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    Salmon Egg <> wrote:

    > With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards, I want to bring
    > um my major complaint and ask questions about the "aluminum" keyboard. I
    > think it is a great keyboard in all but one disasterous way. The keys
    > are too large. If the keys were approximately circular and half the area
    > they are now, I would have no complaints. Making the keyboard highly
    > attractive caused the failing.
    >
    > My complaint is that the keys are just too large in area and too flat so
    > that it is easy for fingers to drift onto adjacent keys, thereby adding
    > unwanted letters too often. My eyes are lousy enough so that I do not
    > see the letter markings on the keys. I can see the key outlines well
    > enough so that if I watch my fingers, I can remain centered on the keys.
    > My fingers "know" approximately where to go, but not well enough to
    > avoid the edges and drift onto adjacent keys. With smaller keys I would
    > get tactile feedback when my fingers are drifting off center.
    >
    > How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    > those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    > keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?
    >
    > I want to know if my problem is because I just am an inept typist or
    > whether others avoid it by watching their fingers at work.


    I touch type and don't look at the keyboard unless I'm typing numbers.
    My fingers stay over the keys just fine because I HATE the aluminum
    keyboard (I gave mine away) and use the old school clickity keyboard
    from Matias Pro. It's full sized, fits the width of my shoulders (which
    a smaller Aluminum keyboard would not thus causing Repetitive Motion
    injuries).

    Be glad for the size of the keyboard. Any narrower and you'd be in
    serious pain from repetitive strain. Well, maybe that's something.
    You'd still have something to complain about. Either your eyes or your
    wrists or your numb hands or shoulders that have become earings.

    Take your pick.

    --
    DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...
    [I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]
    Michael Vilain, May 14, 2012
    #4
  5. Salmon Egg

    JF Mezei Guest

    Salmon Egg wrote:

    > My complaint is that the keys are just too large in area and too flat so




    I think I agree about the flat part. I find my rate of typos since I
    switched to this keyboard has significantly increased. Having concave
    keycaps might help.

    Tactile feedback would also help. Right now, you have to really bang on
    the keys to make sure the key has been activated.

    And there doesn't seem to be an option for key click in the system
    preferences. (unless I missed it).
    JF Mezei, May 14, 2012
    #5
  6. Salmon Egg

    nospam Guest

    In article <4fb05623$0$20711$c3e8da3$>, JF
    Mezei <> wrote:

    > > My complaint is that the keys are just too large in area and too flat so

    >
    > I think I agree about the flat part. I find my rate of typos since I
    > switched to this keyboard has significantly increased. Having concave
    > keycaps might help.
    >
    > Tactile feedback would also help. Right now, you have to really bang on
    > the keys to make sure the key has been activated.


    all true.

    > And there doesn't seem to be an option for key click in the system
    > preferences. (unless I missed it).


    <http://www.sustworks.com/keyclick_pref/index.html>
    nospam, May 14, 2012
    #6
  7. Salmon Egg

    dorayme Guest

    In article <1kk23hc.jz0altce2eveN%>,
    (Andy Hewitt) wrote:

    > I have fairly large hands, and find the Apple keyboards absolutely
    > perfect. It's the little laptop ones that I can't get on with.
    >
    > Sometimes it can just be a matter of getting used to a slightly
    > different feel, or simply having to find a keyboard that suits *you*.


    I market some gloves that have extended smaller fingers (with lovely
    painted nails) that you might be interested in for use on laptops. If
    you want a pair, tell me your preferred drop point, they will finger
    their way over.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, May 14, 2012
    #7
  8. Salmon Egg

    Guest

    sbt <> writes:

    > At first glance, I also thought the keys were too large, but ultimately
    > discovered that they are the same size at the base as the keys on the
    > Saratoga and the Extended USB keyboards I really like...it's the lack
    > of beveling that makes them larger at the top.


    Yes, this is exactly the problem, and has been for at least 12 years
    now. Maybe even longer, I can't remember. With proper keycaps, this
    problem would be solved.

    One wonders -- what the hell are the staff at Apple (particularly those
    writing software) actually using?

    > Additionally, the lack of concavity on the surfaces detracts seriously
    > (for me) when it comes to placement and tactile sensitivity. BTW, the
    > keys are the same size/shape (I measured them) as the ones on my MacBook,
    > which I also seriously dislike...


    Going to a notebook style keyboard on desktop systems just makes this
    all the worse.

    Michael Vilain <> writes:

    > I touch type and don't look at the keyboard unless I'm typing numbers.
    > My fingers stay over the keys just fine because I HATE the aluminum
    > keyboard (I gave mine away) and use the old school clickity keyboard
    > from Matias Pro. It's full sized, fits the width of my shoulders (which
    > a smaller Aluminum keyboard would not thus causing Repetitive Motion
    > injuries).


    Matias is as good as it gets these days. Even though there is some slop
    (lateral play) in the keys that makes typing somewhat a pain, and even
    though it's possible to get keys to click without outputting any data,
    it's still the best 'plug in and just use it' keyboard available. Too
    bad they use Alps key switches - sadly, they are low-end components.

    What I'd greatly prefer is the old IBM buckling spring keyboard -

    http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/

    But it's just about impossible to find one with a full keypad (what
    I use to control my text editor).....

    Billy Y..
    --
    sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
    add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
    bcc 20$ ; not a number
    , May 14, 2012
    #8
  9. Salmon Egg

    Ron Guest

    Salmon Egg <> wrote:

    > With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards, I want to bring
    > um my major complaint and ask questions about the "aluminum" keyboard. I
    > think it is a great keyboard in all but one disasterous way. The keys
    > are too large. If the keys were approximately circular and half the area
    > they are now, I would have no complaints. Making the keyboard highly
    > attractive caused the failing.
    >
    > My complaint is that the keys are just too large in area and too flat so
    > that it is easy for fingers to drift onto adjacent keys, thereby adding
    > unwanted letters too often. My eyes are lousy enough so that I do not
    > see the letter markings on the keys. I can see the key outlines well
    > enough so that if I watch my fingers, I can remain centered on the keys.
    > My fingers "know" approximately where to go, but not well enough to
    > avoid the edges and drift onto adjacent keys. With smaller keys I would
    > get tactile feedback when my fingers are drifting off center.
    >
    > How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    > those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    > keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?
    >
    > I want to know if my problem is because I just am an inept typist or
    > whether others avoid it by watching their fingers at work.


    I agree about the keys being too flat. It feels like a laptop keyboard
    on the desktop. After months with an aluminum keyboard, I still
    sometimes find my fingers drifting out of position. The short travel
    distance of the keys feels a little odd compared to other desktop
    keyboards but that doesn't present a problem by itself.
    Ron, May 14, 2012
    #9
  10. Salmon Egg

    John Albert Guest

    On 5/13/12 5:31 PM, Salmon Egg wrote:
    > How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    > those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    > keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?
    >
    > I want to know if my problem is because I just am an inept typist or
    > whether others avoid it by watching their fingers at work.


    You are not inept.

    I realize that Apple is about "style", but their current
    keyboards are the most un-ergonomicly-designed I've ever seen.

    I learned to type in 1965 on manual typewriters in my junior
    year in high school. Even IBM Selectrics were a luxury back
    then. Having some typing knowledge probably helped to keep
    me out of the infantry when I was drafted, I ended up being
    a radio-teletype operator in 1970 (you could save what you
    typed on paper tapes!).

    The keyboards on the teletypes were reminiscent of the first
    computer keyboards, with shaped keys that helped to keep
    your fingers "centered", for lack of a better word. They
    were noisy, but great keyboards.

    I've never quite gotten used to most Apple keyboards, and
    during the time I've owned Macs (from 1987 onward) I
    generally used third-party keyboards instead - because they
    just "felt like a real keyboard". Early on, I used a
    Datadesk "Mac-101". Later, I used SuperMac USB keyboards,
    and I'm typing this on a Macally keyboard that resembles the
    earlier Datadesk, with "shaped" keys, a long throw, and a
    "traditional feel".

    When I got my Intel iMac, the factory keyboard stayed in the
    wrapping.

    I've tried typing on them at The Apple Store, etc., but
    always come away frustrated -- I just can't type on those
    "flat" things, my fingers can't find the keys, or more
    accurately, can't find the -right- keys on which to "stay
    centered".

    I'm thinking that how one reacts to "Apple-designed" or
    "modern" keyboards probably has a lot to do with how, and on
    what equipment, one learned to type in the first place.
    Older folks who learned on "manuals" or Selectrics, prefer
    to have a "traditional" keyboard under their fingers, and
    feel disoriented without one.

    Younger kids who learned to type on computers probably don't
    mind the "flat" type keyboards, and might actually run into
    trouble on a more traditional keyboard. Perhaps they're more
    used to watching their fingers.

    A friend, who also feels as I do, spent about $100 and
    bought one of the older IBM-style
    keyboards with USB to use on his Mac. It looks and feels
    very much like those old teletype boards! Might have to get
    one myself....
    John Albert, May 14, 2012
    #10
  11. Salmon Egg

    sbt Guest

    In article <4fb071ac$0$2928$>, John
    Albert <> wrote:

    > I learned to type in 1965 on manual typewriters in my junior
    > year in high school. Even IBM Selectrics were a luxury back
    > then. Having some typing knowledge probably helped to keep
    > me out of the infantry when I was drafted, I ended up being
    > a radio-teletype operator in 1970 (you could save what you
    > typed on paper tapes!).
    >

    <snip>
    > I've never quite gotten used to most Apple keyboards, and
    > during the time I've owned Macs (from 1987 onward) I
    > generally used third-party keyboards instead - because they
    > just "felt like a real keyboard". Early on, I used a
    > Datadesk "Mac-101". Later, I used SuperMac USB keyboards,
    > and I'm typing this on a Macally keyboard that resembles the
    > earlier Datadesk, with "shaped" keys, a long throw, and a
    > "traditional feel".


    <snip>
    > I'm thinking that how one reacts to "Apple-designed" or
    > "modern" keyboards probably has a lot to do with how, and on
    > what equipment, one learned to type in the first place.
    > Older folks who learned on "manuals" or Selectrics, prefer
    > to have a "traditional" keyboard under their fingers, and
    > feel disoriented without one.
    >
    > Younger kids who learned to type on computers probably don't
    > mind the "flat" type keyboards, and might actually run into
    > trouble on a more traditional keyboard. Perhaps they're more
    > used to watching their fingers.
    >
    > A friend, who also feels as I do, spent about $100 and
    > bought one of the older IBM-style
    > keyboards with USB to use on his Mac. It looks and feels
    > very much like those old teletype boards! Might have to get
    > one myself....
    >


    Well, I learned to type on Royal and Smith-Corona manual typewriters a
    couple years before you (1962-3) and received a Smith-Corona electric
    portable as a reward for finishing the class with a typing speed of
    over 50wpm..

    I spent a lot of time in the 70s and early 80s working on the keyboards
    of both dumb and smart terminals, as well as those on early personal
    computers such as the Apple ][, Apple ///, IBM PC, Compaq and KayPro.

    As I note earlier in this thread, I don't like the new aluminum
    keyboards. That said, I can "get by" with the wired aluminum extended
    keyboard that came with my 2009 iMac; although I still prefer the older
    extended USB keyboards. However, I will contend that if given the
    choice between the current keyboards and the original Mac keyboard, the
    PC Jr. keyboard, the DEC Rainbow keyboard, the original iMac keyboard,
    or the NeXT Cube's keyboard, I'll take the USB aluminum extended
    keyboard of today (but not the midget ones that come standard). The
    best computer keyboard I've ever used was the Apple ADB keyboard that
    had the nickname "Saratoga" -- nothing else I've used has mimicked the
    IBM Selectric's feel anywhere near as well.

    The point I'm tryiing to make is that, while the current keyboards, in
    my opinion, are poor instruments, there have been worse by Apple and
    others, and Apple's keyboards haven't all been inferior (in fact, some
    have been excellent).

    --
    Spenser
    sbt, May 14, 2012
    #11
  12. Salmon Egg

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    On 2012-05-13 21:31:50 +0000, Salmon Egg said:

    > How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    > those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    > keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?


    I am one who touch types and I have no problem whatsoever with the
    current bluetooth aluminum keyboards. I am one that learned typing when
    I was in high school in 1949. I find the short travel of the keys quite
    helpful. I don't think as far as a keyboard that I could be happier.
    Incidentally I don't look at the keyboard except when I first place my
    hands upoon it.

    --
    James Leo Ryan - Austin, Texas
    TaliesinSoft, May 14, 2012
    #12
  13. Salmon Egg

    Peter James Guest

    Salmon Egg <> wrote:

    > With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards, I want to bring
    > um my major complaint and ask questions about the "aluminum" keyboard. I
    > think it is a great keyboard in all but one disasterous way. The keys
    > are too large. If the keys were approximately circular and half the area
    > they are now, I would have no complaints. Making the keyboard highly
    > attractive caused the failing.
    > snipped

    I didn't learn to type until I was in my early 50's, and on an electirc
    tyrpwriter, so I find the feel of the Apple "aluminium" keyboard OK.
    What I do miss is the numeric keypad. For following a thread on MacSoup
    the numeric keypad is almost essential. I was able to buy a numeric
    keyboard add-on, but it's not perfect by any means.
    But that's a personal point of view I guess.
    Not even Apple can please everyone!

    Peter

    --
    It is necessary for the good man to do nothing for evil to triumph.

    Attributed to Edmund Burke 1729 - 1797
    Peter James, May 14, 2012
    #13
  14. John Albert <> writes:

    > On 5/13/12 5:31 PM, Salmon Egg wrote:
    > > How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    > > those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    > > keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?

    ....
    > The keyboards on the teletypes were reminiscent of the first
    > computer keyboards, with shaped keys that helped to keep
    > your fingers "centered", for lack of a better word. They
    > were noisy, but great keyboards.

    ....
    > I've tried typing on them at The Apple Store, etc., but
    > always come away frustrated -- I just can't type on those
    > "flat" things, my fingers can't find the keys, or more
    > accurately, can't find the -right- keys on which to "stay
    > centered".


    In general I don't mind the current Apple bluetooth keyboard too
    much, but I agree that it could be better at making it easy for my
    fingers to find the home position. In particular, the little pips
    on the F and J keys are definitely too subtle. They're supposed
    to make it obvious when you're in the home position, but they
    don't make it obvious enough for me.

    I also think that, as has been suggested here, the big keys and their
    lack of much concavity also makes it hard to find the centers of the
    keys for positioning the fingers.

    Martin
    Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu, May 14, 2012
    #14
  15. Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu
    <> wrote:

    > John Albert <> writes:
    >
    > > On 5/13/12 5:31 PM, Salmon Egg wrote:
    > > > How many people here touch type without looking at their fingers? Of
    > > > those doing such typing, do any have trouble staying centered on the
    > > > keys? How often do you end up inadvertently catching an adjacent key?

    > ...
    > > The keyboards on the teletypes were reminiscent of the first
    > > computer keyboards, with shaped keys that helped to keep
    > > your fingers "centered", for lack of a better word. They
    > > were noisy, but great keyboards.

    > ...
    > > I've tried typing on them at The Apple Store, etc., but
    > > always come away frustrated -- I just can't type on those
    > > "flat" things, my fingers can't find the keys, or more
    > > accurately, can't find the -right- keys on which to "stay
    > > centered".

    >
    > In general I don't mind the current Apple bluetooth keyboard too
    > much, but I agree that it could be better at making it easy for my
    > fingers to find the home position. In particular, the little pips
    > on the F and J keys are definitely too subtle. They're supposed
    > to make it obvious when you're in the home position, but they
    > don't make it obvious enough for me.
    >
    > I also think that, as has been suggested here, the big keys and their
    > lack of much concavity also makes it hard to find the centers of the
    > keys for positioning the fingers.
    >
    > Martin


    Yeah, me too. I like low profile KBs, but I wish the keys were not flat.
    Even just a couple mm higher to fit in a depression in each key would be
    great. My fingers slip far too often on my corded aluminum KB (no way am
    I going bluetooth and giving up a numeric keypad!).
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    Jamie Kahn Genet, May 14, 2012
    #15
  16. Salmon Egg

    Király Guest

    TaliesinSoft <> wrote:
    > I am one who touch types and I have no problem whatsoever with the
    > current bluetooth aluminum keyboards.


    I too like the compact aluminum keyboard, but wish it came in a wired
    version. If the choice is between a wire and AA batteries, I'll take the
    wire.

    --
    K.

    Lang may your lum reek.
    Király, May 14, 2012
    #16
  17. In article <1kk2rlm.2fpbe41c79frgN%>,
    (Peter James) wrote:

    > Salmon Egg <> wrote:
    >
    > > With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards, I want to bring
    > > um my major complaint and ask questions about the "aluminum" keyboard. I
    > > think it is a great keyboard in all but one disasterous way. The keys
    > > are too large. If the keys were approximately circular and half the area
    > > they are now, I would have no complaints. Making the keyboard highly
    > > attractive caused the failing.
    > > snipped

    > I didn't learn to type until I was in my early 50's, and on an electirc
    > tyrpwriter, so I find the feel of the Apple "aluminium" keyboard OK.
    > What I do miss is the numeric keypad. For following a thread on MacSoup
    > the numeric keypad is almost essential. I was able to buy a numeric
    > keyboard add-on, but it's not perfect by any means.
    > But that's a personal point of view I guess.
    > Not even Apple can please everyone!
    >
    > Peter


    Actually, for just that reason, when I bought my iMac, I got the wired
    keyboard rather than the wireless one. I enter numbers enough that
    having a numeric keypad is, at the very least, very convenient. In fact,
    I just had several months where my only Mac was a MacBook Pro, and I
    really (and I mean REALLY) missed having the numeric keypad.
    David Fritzinger, May 14, 2012
    #17
  18. Salmon Egg

    Andy Hewitt Guest

    dorayme <> wrote:

    > In article <1kk23hc.jz0altce2eveN%>,
    > (Andy Hewitt) wrote:
    >
    > > I have fairly large hands, and find the Apple keyboards absolutely
    > > perfect. It's the little laptop ones that I can't get on with.
    > >
    > > Sometimes it can just be a matter of getting used to a slightly
    > > different feel, or simply having to find a keyboard that suits *you*.

    >
    > I market some gloves that have extended smaller fingers (with lovely
    > painted nails) that you might be interested in for use on laptops. If
    > you want a pair, tell me your preferred drop point, they will finger
    > their way over.


    But only if you can do a colour that matches my heels!! ;-)

    --
    Andy Hewitt
    <www.andy-hewitt.me.uk>
    Andy Hewitt, May 14, 2012
    #18
  19. In article <-september.org>,
    David Fritzinger <> wrote:

    > Actually, for just that reason, when I bought my iMac, I got the wired
    > keyboard rather than the wireless one. I enter numbers enough that
    > having a numeric keypad is, at the very least, very convenient. In fact,
    > I just had several months where my only Mac was a MacBook Pro, and I
    > really (and I mean REALLY) missed having the numeric keypad.


    If you have an Apple wireless keyboard and a Magic Trackpad, and want a
    keypad too, there's this solution:

    <http://www.mobeetechnology.com/the-magic-numpad.html>

    There's also this one, that does not require a Magic Trackpad, although it
    can work with one.

    <http://www.gizmag.com/lmp-bluetooth-keypad/17125/>

    --
    Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
    People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.
    Michelle Steiner, May 14, 2012
    #19
  20. Salmon Egg

    Howard Guest

    Salmon Egg <> wrote:

    > With the recent thread on how to open Apple keyboards,


    I don't agree. The Apple al keyboard is the best I have ever used and my
    son (19) now uses one with his PC after trying mine. He loves it too.
    Best keyboard ever.

    Howard
    Howard, May 14, 2012
    #20
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