Need rec. for a b/u UPS

Discussion in 'Dell' started by MZB, May 4, 2012.

  1. MZB

    MZB Guest

    I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    modem and router is also connected to it.

    Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.

    Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).

    Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    I'd rather just get a new UPS.

    So, any recommendations?

    Mel
     
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  2. Steve W.

    Steve W. Guest

    MZB wrote:
    > I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    > modem and router is also connected to it.
    >
    > Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    > have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    > an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >
    > Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    > ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >
    > Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    > I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >
    > So, any recommendations?
    >
    > Mel


    If you have the room you could do what I did. I had a good UPS that the
    battery went on. It used a single AGM 12 volt unit and gave you around
    20 minutes to shut down. Instead of buying the same battery I decided to
    add some extra capacity. Removed the old battery routed the battery
    connections to terminals on the outside of the box and connected up a
    marine battery. It sets in a battery box with a vent to the outside and
    is also connected to an external charger that has a solar back-up. With
    the big battery I can count on a LOT more time (the same make/model runs
    the trolling motor on my boat for 12-18 hours and that takes far more
    power to run)

    --
    Steve W.
     
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  3. Bob_Villa

    Bob_Villa Guest

    On Thursday, May 3, 2012 9:06:57 PM UTC-5, MZB wrote:
    > I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    > modem and router is also connected to it.
    >
    > Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    > have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    > an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >
    > Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    > ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >
    > Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    > I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >
    > So, any recommendations?
    >
    > Mel


    Is there a need for the 2400 to be backed-up or running? If you back-up the modem and router...you can just wire the 2400 for use but use the laptops when power failed.
     
  4. MZB

    MZB Guest

    On 5/4/2012 5:56 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:
    > On Thursday, May 3, 2012 9:06:57 PM UTC-5, MZB wrote:
    >> I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    >> modem and router is also connected to it.
    >>
    >> Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    >> have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    >> an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >>
    >> Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    >> ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >>
    >> Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    >> I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >>
    >> So, any recommendations?
    >>
    >> Mel

    >
    > Is there a need for the 2400 to be backed-up or running? If you back-up the modem and router...you can just wire the 2400 for use but use the laptops when power failed.


    Well, my main printer is actually an old Epson Color 400. It is also
    about 10 years old but it works great and refuses to die. This is a
    parallel printer so it plugs into the LPT1 port.

    Also, when I save critical files on my laptop, I also save it on my
    desktop (I have some SHARED folders), so I automatically have a backup.
    This plan seems to work fine for my needs. My desktop is on almost all
    the time. It can be off (and sometimes it is) and my laptops will work
    fine via the cable modem/router set up.

    So, back to my question: any recommendations. Should I just get a
    replacement battery? I guess it might depend on prices, but I've made
    the tacit assumption that it makes sense to just replace the old UPS
    with a new one, but maybe not.
    (Sorry, I don't feel comfortable doing the marine battery thing and
    there is not much room)

    Mel
     
  5. RnR

    RnR Guest

    On Fri, 04 May 2012 08:55:34 -0400, MZB <> wrote:

    >On 5/4/2012 5:56 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:
    >> On Thursday, May 3, 2012 9:06:57 PM UTC-5, MZB wrote:
    >>> I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    >>> modem and router is also connected to it.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    >>> have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    >>> an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >>>
    >>> Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    >>> ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >>>
    >>> Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    >>> I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >>>
    >>> So, any recommendations?
    >>>
    >>> Mel

    >>
    >> Is there a need for the 2400 to be backed-up or running? If you back-up the modem and router...you can just wire the 2400 for use but use the laptops when power failed.

    >
    >Well, my main printer is actually an old Epson Color 400. It is also
    >about 10 years old but it works great and refuses to die. This is a
    >parallel printer so it plugs into the LPT1 port.
    >
    >Also, when I save critical files on my laptop, I also save it on my
    >desktop (I have some SHARED folders), so I automatically have a backup.
    >This plan seems to work fine for my needs. My desktop is on almost all
    >the time. It can be off (and sometimes it is) and my laptops will work
    >fine via the cable modem/router set up.
    >
    >So, back to my question: any recommendations. Should I just get a
    >replacement battery? I guess it might depend on prices, but I've made
    >the tacit assumption that it makes sense to just replace the old UPS
    >with a new one, but maybe not.
    >(Sorry, I don't feel comfortable doing the marine battery thing and
    >there is not much room)
    >
    >Mel



    Mel, what UPS do you presently have? I ask because I don't know if
    they sell batteries for it now? I'm not that knowledgeable about
    UPSs but I have 4 myself about 7 years old now. If it were me, I
    would be tempted to just replace the battery in yours but that's
    assuming for one, that you can get a replacement battery. Where I
    lack knowledge is whether your old UPS is as good as a new one of
    comparable price. Obviously if you spend a lot of money, I'm sure
    you will have one of better quality but I'm assuming that's not what
    you have in mind.
     
  6. R. C. White

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Mel.

    The battery is the main - and the most expensive - part of the BPS/UPS. And
    there is the hassle (and slight danger) of physically replacing the batter
    in the unit. Prices on UPSes have come down a LOT in the 8 years since you
    bought that one. And features - like line conditioning - have improved.

    The most important feature - in my mind - is not how many minutes or hours
    the UPS will keep my system running, but how quickly it can take over the
    load. Even a second or less of power interruption (or spike or brownout or
    sag) can cause the loss of whatever I've been working on, and probably a lot
    more. So I look for plenty of power, line conditioning and fast switching
    time.

    My recommendation: get a new UPS - and APC is the brand I've used for my
    current and last couple of units.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
    Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


    "MZB" wrote in message news:jnvdkk$dif$...

    I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    modem and router is also connected to it.

    Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.

    Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).

    Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    I'd rather just get a new UPS.

    So, any recommendations?

    Mel
     
  7. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    Steve W. wrote:
    >
    > MZB wrote:
    > > I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    > > modem and router is also connected to it.
    > >
    > > Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    > > have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    > > an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    > >
    > > Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    > > ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    > >
    > > Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    > > I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    > >
    > > So, any recommendations?
    > >
    > > Mel

    >
    > If you have the room you could do what I did. I had a good UPS that the
    > battery went on. It used a single AGM 12 volt unit and gave you around
    > 20 minutes to shut down. Instead of buying the same battery I decided to
    > add some extra capacity. Removed the old battery routed the battery
    > connections to terminals on the outside of the box and connected up a
    > marine battery. It sets in a battery box with a vent to the outside and
    > is also connected to an external charger that has a solar back-up. With
    > the big battery I can count on a LOT more time (the same make/model runs
    > the trolling motor on my boat for 12-18 hours and that takes far more
    > power to run)
    >
    > --
    > Steve W.


    There's a big fire hazard with low voltage batteries in case of a short
    circuit. Fuse the circuit at the battery (it's likely to have to be
    a pretty big amperage fuse), and use only wires capable of carrying
    that amperage.

    The wires carry ten times more current than what you're used to with
    household stuff at 110v, for the same wattage. You need much thicker
    wires. The fuse has to blow before the wires heat up.

    In case of need for emergency long term power, I'd put the battery and
    inverter outdoors and run only 110v indoors with an extension
    cord.
    --


    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  8. rb

    rb Guest

    MZB;1339265 Wrote:
    >
    > > On Thursday, May 3, 2012 9:06:57 PM UTC-5, MZB wrote
    > >> I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cabl
    > >> modem and router is also connected to it

    > >
    > >> Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (
    > >> have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 year

    > an
    > >> an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years

    > >
    > >> Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up th
    > >> ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time)

    > >
    > >> Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I a

    > thinkin
    > >> I'd rather just get a new UPS

    > >
    > >> So, any recommendations

    > >
    > >> Me


    MZB Wrote:
    >
    > Well, my main printer is actually an old Epson Color 400. It is also
    > about 10 years old but it works great and refuses to die. This is a
    > parallel printer so it plugs into the LPT1 port
    >
    > Also, when I save critical files on my laptop, I also save it on my
    > desktop (I have some SHARED folders), so I automatically have a backup.
    > This plan seems to work fine for my needs. My desktop is on almost all
    > the time. It can be off (and sometimes it is) and my laptops will work
    > fine via the cable modem/router set up
    >
    > So, back to my question: any recommendations. Should I just get a
    > replacement battery? I guess it might depend on prices, but I've made
    > the tacit assumption that it makes sense to just replace the old UPS
    > with a new one, but maybe not
    >
    > Me


    I recommend APC....have 3 APC units ... ES725, BE750G, and an SMC 1000
    BE750G is suitable for most home users and may be a good option for you
    setup,
    but best to use their online product 'wizard'(click #2 in ad) to find
    unit for your specific needs--->
    www.apc.com/site/products/index.cfm/homeoffice-nam/?segmentID=

    You can also get upgrade and replacement battery info and
    check for availability and price direct from APC-->
    www.apc.com/tools/upgrade_selector
     
  9. Steve W.

    Steve W. Guest

    Ron Hardin wrote:
    > Steve W. wrote:
    >> MZB wrote:
    >>> I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    >>> modem and router is also connected to it.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    >>> have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    >>> an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >>>
    >>> Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    >>> ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >>>
    >>> Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    >>> I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >>>
    >>> So, any recommendations?
    >>>
    >>> Mel

    >> If you have the room you could do what I did. I had a good UPS that the
    >> battery went on. It used a single AGM 12 volt unit and gave you around
    >> 20 minutes to shut down. Instead of buying the same battery I decided to
    >> add some extra capacity. Removed the old battery routed the battery
    >> connections to terminals on the outside of the box and connected up a
    >> marine battery. It sets in a battery box with a vent to the outside and
    >> is also connected to an external charger that has a solar back-up. With
    >> the big battery I can count on a LOT more time (the same make/model runs
    >> the trolling motor on my boat for 12-18 hours and that takes far more
    >> power to run)
    >>
    >> --
    >> Steve W.

    >
    > There's a big fire hazard with low voltage batteries in case of a short
    > circuit. Fuse the circuit at the battery (it's likely to have to be
    > a pretty big amperage fuse), and use only wires capable of carrying
    > that amperage.


    I did that once I determined the maximum draw on the unit when it is on
    battery power. Mine run 7 amps. Battery leads are 10 gauge to the UPS
    itself. More than enough to handle max draw.

    >
    > The wires carry ten times more current than what you're used to with
    > household stuff at 110v, for the same wattage. You need much thicker
    > wires. The fuse has to blow before the wires heat up.


    All depends on how you set up the circuitry.

    >
    > In case of need for emergency long term power, I'd put the battery and
    > inverter outdoors and run only 110v indoors with an extension
    > cord.


    The battery is in a battery box that is vented to the exterior.
    Everything inside is sealed so that any possible gas build up is vented
    outside.


    --
    Steve W.
     
  10. Guest

    On Fri, 04 May 2012 19:49:55 -0400, "Steve W." <>
    wrote:

    >Ron Hardin wrote:
    >> Steve W. wrote:
    >>> MZB wrote:
    >>>> I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    >>>> modem and router is also connected to it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    >>>> have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    >>>> an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >>>>
    >>>> Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    >>>> ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >>>>
    >>>> Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    >>>> I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >>>>
    >>>> So, any recommendations?
    >>>>
    >>>> Mel
    >>> If you have the room you could do what I did. I had a good UPS that the
    >>> battery went on. It used a single AGM 12 volt unit and gave you around
    >>> 20 minutes to shut down. Instead of buying the same battery I decided to
    >>> add some extra capacity. Removed the old battery routed the battery
    >>> connections to terminals on the outside of the box and connected up a
    >>> marine battery. It sets in a battery box with a vent to the outside and
    >>> is also connected to an external charger that has a solar back-up. With
    >>> the big battery I can count on a LOT more time (the same make/model runs
    >>> the trolling motor on my boat for 12-18 hours and that takes far more
    >>> power to run)
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Steve W.

    >>
    >> There's a big fire hazard with low voltage batteries in case of a short
    >> circuit. Fuse the circuit at the battery (it's likely to have to be
    >> a pretty big amperage fuse), and use only wires capable of carrying
    >> that amperage.

    >
    >I did that once I determined the maximum draw on the unit when it is on
    >battery power. Mine run 7 amps. Battery leads are 10 gauge to the UPS
    >itself. More than enough to handle max draw.
    >
    >>
    >> The wires carry ten times more current than what you're used to with
    >> household stuff at 110v, for the same wattage. You need much thicker
    >> wires. The fuse has to blow before the wires heat up.

    >
    >All depends on how you set up the circuitry.
    >
    >>
    >> In case of need for emergency long term power, I'd put the battery and
    >> inverter outdoors and run only 110v indoors with an extension
    >> cord.

    >
    >The battery is in a battery box that is vented to the exterior.
    >Everything inside is sealed so that any possible gas build up is vented
    >outside.

    I'd just use a yellow-top Optima and forget about it.
     
  11. Guest

    On Fri, 4 May 2012 12:17:41 -0500, rb <>
    wrote:

    >
    >MZB;1339265 Wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Thursday, May 3, 2012 9:06:57 PM UTC-5, MZB wrote:
    >> >> I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    >> >> modem and router is also connected to it.
    >> >>
    >> >> Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    >> >> have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years

    >> and
    >> >> an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >> >>
    >> >> Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    >> >> ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >> >>
    >> >> Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am

    >> thinking
    >> >> I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >> >>
    >> >> So, any recommendations?
    >> >>
    >> >> Mel

    >
    >MZB Wrote:
    >>
    >> Well, my main printer is actually an old Epson Color 400. It is also
    >> about 10 years old but it works great and refuses to die. This is a
    >> parallel printer so it plugs into the LPT1 port.
    >>
    >> Also, when I save critical files on my laptop, I also save it on my
    >> desktop (I have some SHARED folders), so I automatically have a backup.
    >> This plan seems to work fine for my needs. My desktop is on almost all
    >> the time. It can be off (and sometimes it is) and my laptops will work
    >> fine via the cable modem/router set up.
    >>
    >> So, back to my question: any recommendations. Should I just get a
    >> replacement battery? I guess it might depend on prices, but I've made
    >> the tacit assumption that it makes sense to just replace the old UPS
    >> with a new one, but maybe not.
    >>
    >> Mel

    >
    >I recommend APC....have 3 APC units ... ES725, BE750G, and an SMC 1000.
    >BE750G is suitable for most home users and may be a good option for your
    >setup,
    >but best to use their online product 'wizard'(click #2 in ad) to find a
    >unit for your specific needs--->
    >www.apc.com/site/products/index.cfm/homeoffice-nam/?segmentID=1
    >
    >You can also get upgrade and replacement battery info and
    >check for availability and price direct from APC-->
    >www.apc.com/tools/upgrade_selector/
    >

    Personally I don't like APC. (A Piece of Crap) - I've used
    Best/Powerware/Eaton/ for the last almost 30 years. Top end APC may be
    almost as good, but the cheap retail crap doesn't impress me.
     
  12. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    Steve W. wrote:
    > > There's a big fire hazard with low voltage batteries in case of a short
    > > circuit. Fuse the circuit at the battery (it's likely to have to be
    > > a pretty big amperage fuse), and use only wires capable of carrying
    > > that amperage.

    >
    > I did that once I determined the maximum draw on the unit when it is on
    > battery power. Mine run 7 amps. Battery leads are 10 gauge to the UPS
    > itself. More than enough to handle max draw.


    You still need the fuse at the battery. A short circuit will give you much
    more than max draw. You can vaporize a wrench with it.

    I have a knife switch on my battery that shorts out the fuse in case I want
    to manually use the battery for something serious, but let it stay on the
    fused circuit when I'm not physically present.
    --


    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  13. Guest

    On Fri, 04 May 2012 20:17:42 -0400, wrote:

    >On Fri, 04 May 2012 19:49:55 -0400, "Steve W." <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Ron Hardin wrote:
    >>> Steve W. wrote:
    >>>> MZB wrote:
    >>>>> I have this old Dell Dimension 2400 desktop with a printer. The cable
    >>>>> modem and router is also connected to it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Anyway, it continues to work great. It forms the base of a network (I
    >>>>> have 2 laptops). I have had the desktop system for probably 10 years and
    >>>>> an APC UPS connected to it for maybe 8 years.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Finally, I am getting a message that the APC is about to give up the
    >>>>> ghost (fully charged, the battery has only 5 minutes of backup time).
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Now, I guess I could just get a battery replacement, but I am thinking
    >>>>> I'd rather just get a new UPS.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So, any recommendations?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Mel
    >>>> If you have the room you could do what I did. I had a good UPS that the
    >>>> battery went on. It used a single AGM 12 volt unit and gave you around
    >>>> 20 minutes to shut down. Instead of buying the same battery I decided to
    >>>> add some extra capacity. Removed the old battery routed the battery
    >>>> connections to terminals on the outside of the box and connected up a
    >>>> marine battery. It sets in a battery box with a vent to the outside and
    >>>> is also connected to an external charger that has a solar back-up. With
    >>>> the big battery I can count on a LOT more time (the same make/model runs
    >>>> the trolling motor on my boat for 12-18 hours and that takes far more
    >>>> power to run)
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Steve W.
    >>>
    >>> There's a big fire hazard with low voltage batteries in case of a short
    >>> circuit. Fuse the circuit at the battery (it's likely to have to be
    >>> a pretty big amperage fuse), and use only wires capable of carrying
    >>> that amperage.

    >>
    >>I did that once I determined the maximum draw on the unit when it is on
    >>battery power. Mine run 7 amps. Battery leads are 10 gauge to the UPS
    >>itself. More than enough to handle max draw.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> The wires carry ten times more current than what you're used to with
    >>> household stuff at 110v, for the same wattage. You need much thicker
    >>> wires. The fuse has to blow before the wires heat up.

    >>
    >>All depends on how you set up the circuitry.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> In case of need for emergency long term power, I'd put the battery and
    >>> inverter outdoors and run only 110v indoors with an extension
    >>> cord.

    >>
    >>The battery is in a battery box that is vented to the exterior.
    >>Everything inside is sealed so that any possible gas build up is vented
    >>outside.

    > I'd just use a yellow-top Optima and forget about it.

    With a fuse (or breaker) in the line for sure - as close to the
    battery posts as possible.
     
  14. Steve W.

    Steve W. Guest

    Ron Hardin wrote:
    > Steve W. wrote:
    >>> There's a big fire hazard with low voltage batteries in case of a short
    >>> circuit. Fuse the circuit at the battery (it's likely to have to be
    >>> a pretty big amperage fuse), and use only wires capable of carrying
    >>> that amperage.

    >> I did that once I determined the maximum draw on the unit when it is on
    >> battery power. Mine run 7 amps. Battery leads are 10 gauge to the UPS
    >> itself. More than enough to handle max draw.

    >
    > You still need the fuse at the battery. A short circuit will give you much
    > more than max draw. You can vaporize a wrench with it.
    >
    > I have a knife switch on my battery that shorts out the fuse in case I want
    > to manually use the battery for something serious, but let it stay on the
    > fused circuit when I'm not physically present.


    That's why I said I did that once I determined the max draw. Didn't want
    a 20 amp fuse if it only takes 7 amps max.
    My set up has a 10 amp fuse on both leads. The external charger is also
    on fused leads along with being separated from the solar back up system
    for the home.

    --
    Steve W.
     
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