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new system, need video card for dual 22" LCD monitors, non-gamer

Discussion in 'ATI' started by tanstafl, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. tanstafl

    tanstafl Guest

    xpost to ATI, Nvidia & pc-homebuilt for coverage

    I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)

    I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    (less heat). I don't need HDMI or HDCP. Ability to read the DCC to
    adapt to a change in the monitor pivot position is a plus.

    Operational stability & thermal survivability is paramount - cost
    isn't an issue. If ample operational envelope can't be gotten with
    passive cooling, then a move upscale to a fan based card that can be
    stable is something I'll have to accept - even if loss of the PCIe
    slot is the price. Build it & forget it. My main W2K system has been
    driving a 21" CRT with a Radeon 70 LE AGP passive card for 8 years now
    and still trucking. I'd like to see Dec 2016 come and go the same
    with the new XPproSP3 platform.

    Note: don't assume I know precisely what I'm asking for - that would
    be a mistake. I've done a bit of reading and 'I think' the above is
    sensible - but if not, don't hesitate to enlighten me,
    ignorance ain't bliss.
    ----
    Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    Have the best day possible - all things considered
     
    tanstafl, Nov 21, 2008
    #1
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  2. tanstafl

    Anton Ertl Guest

    tanstafl <> writes:
    >xpost to ATI, Nvidia & pc-homebuilt for coverage
    >
    >I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    >dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    >2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    >not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)
    >
    >I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >(less heat).


    RAM does not produce much heat, and the amount of RAM on any modern
    card is good enough for 24bpp at any resolution even with two
    monitors.

    Any passively cooled Dual-DVI card should do.

    I have a Sapphire Ultimate Radeon X1650 Pro, which should fit your
    bill. The heat sink is on the back side (where the CPU fan blows on
    it), so the PCIe x1 slot below it should be usable.

    >Operational stability & thermal survivability is paramount - cost
    >isn't an issue.


    Then buy several cards. Two of my passively cooled cards died after
    several years of usage (one was a Voodoo 3 3000, the other a Radeon
    9600). They were stable before they died.

    Followups set to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
    Most things have to be believed to be seen
    http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
     
    Anton Ertl, Nov 21, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. tanstafl

    Paul Guest

    tanstafl wrote:
    > xpost to ATI, Nvidia & pc-homebuilt for coverage
    >
    > I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    > dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    > 2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    > not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)
    >
    > I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    > card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    > x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    > (less heat). I don't need HDMI or HDCP. Ability to read the DCC to
    > adapt to a change in the monitor pivot position is a plus.
    >
    > Operational stability & thermal survivability is paramount - cost
    > isn't an issue. If ample operational envelope can't be gotten with
    > passive cooling, then a move upscale to a fan based card that can be
    > stable is something I'll have to accept - even if loss of the PCIe
    > slot is the price. Build it & forget it. My main W2K system has been
    > driving a 21" CRT with a Radeon 70 LE AGP passive card for 8 years now
    > and still trucking. I'd like to see Dec 2016 come and go the same
    > with the new XPproSP3 platform.
    >
    > Note: don't assume I know precisely what I'm asking for - that would
    > be a mistake. I've done a bit of reading and 'I think' the above is
    > sensible - but if not, don't hesitate to enlighten me,
    > ignorance ain't bliss.
    > ----
    > Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    > Have the best day possible - all things considered


    Your monitor has VGA and DVI connectors. That means, in a pinch,
    you could use a card with one VGA and one DVI connector on it.
    And that means a very cheap card could be used (your first card
    will be a learning experience, where you learn that cheap is
    not the same thing as good).

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001254&Tpk=2243BWX

    On DVI interfaces, 1680x1050 is covered by a "single link" connector.
    See the Specifications section here, where there are some examples of
    resolution options.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

    You can skim through the lists here, to find a gutless card.
    And gutless should have low power consumption. Something with
    a 64 bit memory interface on the GPU for example. HD 3450
    or 8400 GS perhaps.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/
    http://www.gpureview.com

    Next, you can use the Newegg Advanced Search. Set interface to
    PCI Express 2.0 if you want. Set "Cooler" near the bottom of
    the list, to "fanless". It claims there are 143 cards (some
    of which could be PCI Express 1.0 version cards).

    http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=48&name=Desktop-Graphics-Video-Cards

    When I started reviewing the cards, virtually all of them had
    issues of one sort or another. On one card, a guy said that
    running two monitors in dual mode, the "whites" were blown
    out on one display. That means something was wrong with
    the contrast/brightness/gamma or some other setting, which
    made the two displays differ.

    So while there are cheap cards, and ones where the operating
    temperature isn't in the danger zone, there are still the
    odd issues.

    As a result of looking at the reviewer comments for the
    cards, I can't recommend anything :-( It is very much
    a matter of tradeoffs, and deciding which is the least
    annoying option.

    Passively cooled cards, can have the cooler on the front
    or on the back of the card. If on the front side,
    the card will take up two slots (and possibly a third
    if you want to leave an air channel for cooling). If
    the passive cooler is on the backside, the cooler can
    bump into the Northbridge heatsink - it all depends on
    how massive the cooling structures are on the motherboard.
    The benefit of a backside cooler, is the "air spill" from
    the CPU fan, can help cool the card. But "air spill" only works
    well, if the cooler is shaped to spill in the video card's
    direction. Some expensive aftermarket coolers blow towards
    the exhaust on the back of the case, and there isn't as much
    air spill to work with.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Nov 21, 2008
    #3
  4. tanstafl

    Dave Guest

    "tanstafl" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > xpost to ATI, Nvidia & pc-homebuilt for coverage
    >
    > I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    > dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    > 2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    > not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)
    >
    > I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    > card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    > x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    > (less heat).


    (snip)

    OK, you will want a minimum of 512MB of dedicated video RAM to start with.
    And passive coolers are often larger, by necessity. If there is no fan,
    then there needs to be more area exposed to the air to keep things cool.
    (thus the heatsink is larger) Looking at the picture of your motherboard,
    it looks like a passively cooled video card is going to block a PCI-Express
    slot (either side) OR it is going to block a PCI slot.

    I'd suggest you try a HD 4670:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102792
    This one is a decent brand, has TWO DVI, and the cooler is small enough that
    it shouldn't block a nearby slot. From reviews I've read, it's one of the
    quieter coolers, too. Not necessarily quiet, but not as loud as some.

    OH, and the power supply you want for that rig is a Corsair 750TX, or a BFG
    ES-800. Both are more powerful than you need (you need about 600W)...but
    it's hard to find quality power supplies in the ~600W range. Unless you
    want a Earthwatts 650 which is great quality and butt ugly. :)
    http://www.provantage.com/corsair-memory-cmpsu-750tx~7CSMC05E.htm
    http://www.thenerds.net/BFG_TECHNOLOGIES.Bfg_Tech_ES_800_ATX12V_EPS12V_Power_Supply_800_W_Maximum.ES800.html?affid=8&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=ES800^~^BFG%20TECHNOLOGIES

    Good luck, -Dave
     
    Dave, Nov 21, 2008
    #4
  5. In article <>, tanstafl
    <> writes

    >I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >(less heat).


    Nvidia Quadro 285/290 do you? Loads on ebay, example: item 290272435970
    on ebay.co.uk. Seems to tick all your boxes.

    I would recommend using dual DVI. Your chosen resolution is pushing it
    for VGA, and don't make the mistake of choosing a card with one DVI and
    one VGA. I'm running a pair of identical 1600 x 1200 screens off such a
    card and had to spend hours with the setup on the monitor running off
    the VGA-out to get it to look anything like the DVI display.
     
    Mike Tomlinson, Nov 21, 2008
    #5
  6. In message <>, Mike Tomlinson
    <> writes
    >In article <>, tanstafl
    ><> writes
    >
    >>I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >>card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >>x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >>(less heat).

    >
    >Nvidia Quadro 285/290 do you? Loads on ebay, example: item 290272435970
    >on ebay.co.uk. Seems to tick all your boxes.
    >
    >I would recommend using dual DVI. Your chosen resolution is pushing it
    >for VGA, and don't make the mistake of choosing a card with one DVI and
    >one VGA. I'm running a pair of identical 1600 x 1200 screens off such a
    >card and had to spend hours with the setup on the monitor running off
    >the VGA-out to get it to look anything like the DVI display.
    >

    Have you thought about Matrox cards?
    --
    dave griffiths
     
    dave griffiths, Nov 21, 2008
    #6
  7. tanstafl

    Dave Guest

    > Have you thought about Matrox cards?

    Not since the 90s. Not much even then. :) -Dave
     
    Dave, Nov 21, 2008
    #7
  8. In article <>, dave griffiths
    <> writes

    >Have you thought about Matrox cards?


    The G550 in PCI-e only supports 1280 x 1024 on the DVI output, which
    doesn't meet the OP's requirements.
     
    Mike Tomlinson, Nov 21, 2008
    #8
  9. tanstafl

    John Weiss Guest

    "tanstafl" <> wrote...
    >
    > I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    > dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    > 2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    > not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)
    >
    > I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    > card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    > x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    > (less heat). I don't need HDMI or HDCP. Ability to read the DCC to
    > adapt to a change in the monitor pivot position is a plus.
    >
    > Operational stability & thermal survivability is paramount - cost
    > isn't an issue. If ample operational envelope can't be gotten with
    > passive cooling, then a move upscale to a fan based card that can be
    > stable is something I'll have to accept - even if loss of the PCIe
    > slot is the price.


    I have 2 GA MoBos -- P35-DS4 and X48-DS4. Both have HIS brand ATI cards in
    them -- 1 X1950 and 1 HD3850.

    I like the HIS "Ice Q" cooling (now to v4 for newer cards) if you have to go
    with a fan. However, they also have an "iSilence" line with Zalman fanless
    cooling
    (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...escription=&Ntk=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=)
    that may work for you.

    Those come in 2600XT, 3450, 3650, and 4650, versions, all with 512 MB RAM and
    dual DVI outputs. You'll have to research the various GPU capabilities a bit to
    see what performance level you will need. To get the lower-power units you
    sacrifice the 256-bit data bus, but that may not be important for your use. The
    ATI Catalyst software also supports pivoting.
     
    John Weiss, Nov 21, 2008
    #9
  10. * dave griffiths:

    > Have you thought about Matrox cards?


    What for? The regular Matrox cards are way overpriced and can't do
    anything a Geforce/Radeon can't do.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Nov 22, 2008
    #10
  11. * tanstafl:

    > I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    > dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    > 2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    > not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)


    So nothing fancy. All that can be handled even by a low end GPU.

    > I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    > card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    > x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    > (less heat).


    Keep in mind that modern cards/drivers are optimized for 32bit and thus
    16bit can be slower. Despite that, even most low end gfx cards come with
    128MB or more which is more than enough for your case. The
    recommendation with 512MB or more is just plain nonsense.

    > I don't need HDMI or HDCP. Ability to read the DCC to
    > adapt to a change in the monitor pivot position is a plus.
    >
    > Operational stability & thermal survivability is paramount - cost
    > isn't an issue.


    Then get one of the PNY Quadro cards. Nothing for overclockers but
    really reliable and well-built cards with 3 year warranty. The lower
    models aren't even really expensive.

    A Quadro NVS 285 is probably a very good choice for your case and
    fullfills all your requirements:
    http://www.pny.com/products/quadro/nvs/285x16NvsPciEx.asp

    Be sure to get the cable with 2xDVI. You don't want to connect 1680
    monitors via analog VGA.

    > Note: don't assume I know precisely what I'm asking for - that would
    > be a mistake.


    I don't think so. You may not know which gfx card is suitable for you
    but you delivered a precise and detailed description of the
    environmental parameters which makes recommending a card really easy.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Nov 22, 2008
    #11
  12. * Paul:

    > Your monitor has VGA and DVI connectors. That means, in a pinch,
    > you could use a card with one VGA and one DVI connector on it.


    It's not really a good idea to connect 22" monitors running at 1680x1050
    via VGA, especially when considering that the analog signal quality of
    most todays cards is very poor.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Nov 22, 2008
    #12
  13. tanstafl

    Dave Guest

    "Benjamin Gawert" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >* tanstafl:
    >
    >> I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    >> dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    >> 2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    >> not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)

    >
    > So nothing fancy. All that can be handled even by a low end GPU.
    >
    >> I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >> card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >> x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >> (less heat).

    >
    > Keep in mind that modern cards/drivers are optimized for 32bit and thus
    > 16bit can be slower. Despite that, even most low end gfx cards come with
    > 128MB or more which is more than enough for your case. The recommendation
    > with 512MB or more is just plain nonsense.
    >


    You're forgetting about rendering space. -Dave
     
    Dave, Nov 22, 2008
    #13
  14. In article <gg904f$r52$>, Dave <>
    writes

    >You're forgetting about rendering space. -Dave


    The OP did say he wasn't interested in 3D/gaming. I thought the cards
    you recommended were overkill too, and the PSUs.

    --
    (\__/)
    (='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
    (")_(")
     
    Mike Tomlinson, Nov 22, 2008
    #14
  15. * Dave:
    >> Keep in mind that modern cards/drivers are optimized for 32bit and
    >> thus 16bit can be slower. Despite that, even most low end gfx cards
    >> come with 128MB or more which is more than enough for your case. The
    >> recommendation with 512MB or more is just plain nonsense.

    >
    > You're forgetting about rendering space. -Dave


    What "rendering space"?

    You can run 3D applications on two 1680x1050 displays with 128MB already
    which still leaves a lot of room for textures or AA/AF. Recommending
    512MB or more for 2D applications is just silly and IMHO shows a clear
    lack of basic understanding of how gfx hardware works.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Nov 22, 2008
    #15
  16. tanstafl

    tanstafl Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:17:54 GMT,
    (Anton Ertl) wrote:

    >tanstafl <> writes:
    >>xpost to ATI, Nvidia & pc-homebuilt for coverage
    >>
    >>I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    >>dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    >>2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    >>not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)
    >>
    >>I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >>card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >>x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >>(less heat).

    >
    >RAM does not produce much heat, and the amount of RAM on any modern
    >card is good enough for 24bpp at any resolution even with two
    >monitors.
    >
    >Any passively cooled Dual-DVI card should do.
    >
    >I have a Sapphire Ultimate Radeon X1650 Pro, which should fit your
    >bill. The heat sink is on the back side (where the CPU fan blows on
    >it), so the PCIe x1 slot below it should be usable.


    Newegg only carries the x1650Pro, not the Ultimate - but from the
    single picture on the Sapphire site, that's a biiig radiator hanging
    off the back. My board has PCIe slots fore & aft of the x16 slot so
    I'd still wind up losing one. The Newegg x1650Pro has a slim fan that
    appears to not rise beyond the bracket boundary - I could probably use
    the adjacent slot with a low profile short card that wouldn't block
    the airflow to the 1650 card fan. But the slimness probably means
    shallow impeller blades - likely only 10mm deep which likely means a
    high RPM. Have you or anyone else used this card? Is it a screamer?
    I'm not overly sensitive to fan noise - except for high pitched
    screamers @ 6Krpm and up.

    >>Operational stability & thermal survivability is paramount - cost
    >>isn't an issue.

    >
    >Then buy several cards. Two of my passively cooled cards died after
    >several years of usage (one was a Voodoo 3 3000, the other a Radeon
    >9600). They were stable before they died.


    Good idea, and at the price point - why not.

    >Followups set to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati.


    Just curiosity - why the fup?
    ----
    Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    Have the best day possible - all things considered
     
    tanstafl, Nov 24, 2008
    #16
  17. tanstafl

    tanstafl Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:43:23 -0500, Paul <> wrote:

    >tanstafl wrote:
    >> xpost to ATI, Nvidia & pc-homebuilt for coverage
    >>
    >> I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    >> dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    >> 2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    >> not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)
    >>
    >> I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >> card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >> x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >> (less heat). I don't need HDMI or HDCP. Ability to read the DCC to
    >> adapt to a change in the monitor pivot position is a plus.
    >>
    >> Operational stability & thermal survivability is paramount - cost
    >> isn't an issue. If ample operational envelope can't be gotten with
    >> passive cooling, then a move upscale to a fan based card that can be
    >> stable is something I'll have to accept - even if loss of the PCIe
    >> slot is the price. Build it & forget it. My main W2K system has been
    >> driving a 21" CRT with a Radeon 70 LE AGP passive card for 8 years now
    >> and still trucking. I'd like to see Dec 2016 come and go the same
    >> with the new XPproSP3 platform.
    >>
    >> Note: don't assume I know precisely what I'm asking for - that would
    >> be a mistake. I've done a bit of reading and 'I think' the above is
    >> sensible - but if not, don't hesitate to enlighten me,
    >> ignorance ain't bliss.
    >> ----
    >> Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    >> Have the best day possible - all things considered

    >
    >Your monitor has VGA and DVI connectors. That means, in a pinch,
    >you could use a card with one VGA and one DVI connector on it.


    Based on advice in other responses, I'm now looking solely at dual
    DVI.

    >And that means a very cheap card could be used (your first card
    >will be a learning experience, where you learn that cheap is
    >not the same thing as good).


    Indeed a good lesson to learn - but you are about 3 decades too late.
    There are many things I need to learn about video cards, but that
    ain't one of them :) As I indicated, cost isn't an issue. I was
    pursuing lower end passive cards to preserve mobo slots and managing
    overall case heat load for stability & long term reliability.

    >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001254&Tpk=2243BWX
    >
    >On DVI interfaces, 1680x1050 is covered by a "single link" connector.
    >See the Specifications section here, where there are some examples of
    >resolution options.
    >
    >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
    >
    >You can skim through the lists here, to find a gutless card.
    >And gutless should have low power consumption. Something with
    >a 64 bit memory interface on the GPU for example. HD 3450
    >or 8400 GS perhaps.
    >
    >http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/
    >http://www.gpureview.com
    >
    >Next, you can use the Newegg Advanced Search. Set interface to
    >PCI Express 2.0 if you want. Set "Cooler" near the bottom of
    >the list, to "fanless". It claims there are 143 cards (some
    >of which could be PCI Express 1.0 version cards).
    >
    >http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=48&name=Desktop-Graphics-Video-Cards
    >
    >When I started reviewing the cards, virtually all of them had
    >issues of one sort or another. On one card, a guy said that
    >running two monitors in dual mode, the "whites" were blown
    >out on one display. That means something was wrong with
    >the contrast/brightness/gamma or some other setting, which
    >made the two displays differ.
    >
    >So while there are cheap cards, and ones where the operating
    >temperature isn't in the danger zone, there are still the
    >odd issues.
    >
    >As a result of looking at the reviewer comments for the
    >cards, I can't recommend anything :-( It is very much
    >a matter of tradeoffs, and deciding which is the least
    >annoying option.


    Thank you very much for the legwork - I didn't expect that. I
    narrowed the search to dual DVI. Came up with 2 items that I'll look
    at closer:

    HIS 260 base @ $100
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161203
    HIS 1050 base @ $50
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161202

    As you noted, the reviews are a mixed bag.

    >Passively cooled cards, can have the cooler on the front
    >or on the back of the card. If on the front side,
    >the card will take up two slots (and possibly a third
    >if you want to leave an air channel for cooling). If
    >the passive cooler is on the backside, the cooler can
    >bump into the Northbridge heatsink - it all depends on
    >how massive the cooling structures are on the motherboard.
    >The benefit of a backside cooler, is the "air spill" from
    >the CPU fan, can help cool the card. But "air spill" only works
    >well, if the cooler is shaped to spill in the video card's
    >direction. Some expensive aftermarket coolers blow towards
    >the exhaust on the back of the case, and there isn't as much
    >air spill to work with.
    >
    > Paul


    It seems a distinct possibility that I'll not find a fanless design
    that spares the other slots. If so, I'll just bite the bullet and
    sacrifice a slot by going somewhat upscale to a well designed fan
    model. The HIS ICE models that force the air through a card plenum
    and exhaust it out the back seem intriguing. If I do go to a low side
    mid-range card, it would obviously be over powered for my needs. Can
    these cards be underclocked (& maybe undervolted) to reduce the heat
    signature and perhaps improve the MTTF?

    ----
    Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    Have the best day possible - all things considered
     
    tanstafl, Nov 24, 2008
    #17
  18. tanstafl

    tanstafl Guest

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:16:53 +0000, Benjamin Gawert <>
    wrote:

    >* Paul:
    >
    >> Your monitor has VGA and DVI connectors. That means, in a pinch,
    >> you could use a card with one VGA and one DVI connector on it.

    >
    >It's not really a good idea to connect 22" monitors running at 1680x1050
    >via VGA, especially when considering that the analog signal quality of
    >most todays cards is very poor.
    >
    >Benjamin


    Thanks for the advice. I was mildly concerned. It's difficult to
    find hard & fast rules for that kind of thing - maybe because there
    are no hard & fast rules. But since it seems 1680x1050 resolution is
    marginal for VGA, I don't want to mess with it. Dual DVI it is.
    ----
    Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    Have the best day possible - all things considered
     
    tanstafl, Nov 24, 2008
    #18
  19. tanstafl

    tanstafl Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:58:48 -0500, "Dave" <> wrote:

    >
    >"tanstafl" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> xpost to ATI, Nvidia & pc-homebuilt for coverage
    >>
    >> I'm starting to build a new system and I want to equip it with 22"
    >> dual monitors in landscape/portrait 1680x1050 & 1050x1680. 2 Samsung
    >> 2243BWX monitors. Mobo is a GA-X48-DQ6 with a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I'm
    >> not a gamer (other than an occasional rousing round of Minesweeper:)
    >>
    >> I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >> card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >> x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >> (less heat).

    >
    >(snip)
    >
    >OK, you will want a minimum of 512MB of dedicated video RAM to start with.
    >And passive coolers are often larger, by necessity. If there is no fan,
    >then there needs to be more area exposed to the air to keep things cool.
    >(thus the heatsink is larger) Looking at the picture of your motherboard,
    >it looks like a passively cooled video card is going to block a PCI-Express
    >slot (either side) OR it is going to block a PCI slot.
    >
    >I'd suggest you try a HD 4670:
    >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102792
    >This one is a decent brand, has TWO DVI, and the cooler is small enough that
    >it shouldn't block a nearby slot. From reviews I've read, it's one of the
    >quieter coolers, too. Not necessarily quiet, but not as loud as some.


    Looks interesting. My only concern is that the blades are probably
    only 10mm or so deep. Skinny blades like that have to be spun fast to
    move much air generally resulting in a high pitched screech. I'm not
    particularly sensitive to normal fan noise - becomes a part of
    background noise that you quickly ignore. But a banshee is always in
    your face. Can someone who uses that card characterize the sound?

    >OH, and the power supply you want for that rig is a Corsair 750TX, or a BFG
    >ES-800. Both are more powerful than you need (you need about 600W)...but
    >it's hard to find quality power supplies in the ~600W range. Unless you
    >want a Earthwatts 650 which is great quality and butt ugly. :)
    >http://www.provantage.com/corsair-memory-cmpsu-750tx~7CSMC05E.htm
    >http://www.thenerds.net/BFG_TECHNOLOGIES.Bfg_Tech_ES_800_ATX12V_EPS12V_Power_Supply_800_W_Maximum.ES800.html?affid=8&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=ES800^~^BFG%20TECHNOLOGIES
    >
    >Good luck, -Dave
    >


    ----
    Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    Have the best day possible - all things considered
     
    tanstafl, Nov 24, 2008
    #19
  20. tanstafl

    tanstafl Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:06:08 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>, tanstafl
    ><> writes
    >
    >>I'm hoping to identify a minimalist dual DVI (VGA w/dongle may be OK)
    >>card that can use passive cooling (preserve use of the adjacent PCIe
    >>x1 slot). I only need 16 bit color so maybe that will allow less RAM
    >>(less heat).

    >
    >Nvidia Quadro 285/290 do you? Loads on ebay, example: item 290272435970
    >on ebay.co.uk. Seems to tick all your boxes.
    >
    >I would recommend using dual DVI. Your chosen resolution is pushing it
    >for VGA, and don't make the mistake of choosing a card with one DVI and
    >one VGA. I'm running a pair of identical 1600 x 1200 screens off such a
    >card and had to spend hours with the setup on the monitor running off
    >the VGA-out to get it to look anything like the DVI display.


    Thanks. That makes two anti VGA votes. More than enough to make dual
    DVI a firm requirement.
    ----
    Pete Gebel pfgebel(deletethis)@crisperiodcom
    Have the best day possible - all things considered
     
    tanstafl, Nov 24, 2008
    #20
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