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New unlocked Intel CPUs hit the market, for cheap

Discussion in 'Intel' started by Bill Davidsen, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. The new unlocked i5 and i7 CPUs hit the market today on sites like Newegg and
    TigerDirect. At least on Newegg they are OEM, no cooling provided. Claims of
    4GHz with air cooling have been on the net, but as my grandmother used to say,
    "The paper hold still" (her translation from the German).
     
    Bill Davidsen, Jun 4, 2010
    #1
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  2. Jim wrote:
    > "Bill Davidsen" <> wrote in message
    > news:hu9f3g$j3s$-september.org...
    >> The new unlocked i5 and i7 CPUs hit the market today on sites like Newegg
    >> and TigerDirect. At least on Newegg they are OEM, no cooling provided.
    >> Claims of 4GHz with air cooling have been on the net, but as my
    >> grandmother used to say, "The paper hold still" (her translation from the
    >> German).

    > I wouldn't call 875K for $330 cheap.


    The previous unlocked CPU was about $1000, the i5 model is $200. Comparing Intel
    to AMD or SPARC isn't really useful in decision making.

    > And you can get a Ph2 x4 BE for $125
    > which makes the dual core 655K for $210 a terrible value. Getting 4GHZ on a
    > 920/930 isn't difficult though the unlocked multi means you can use cheap
    > RAM&mobo so total platform cost the 875K probably wins by a little.
    > I find the 32nm quad Xeon for $390 that recently showed up on NewEgg more
    > interesting though the low multiplier makes hard to reach higher overclocks.
    >
    >
     
    Bill Davidsen, Jun 5, 2010
    #2
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  3. Bill Davidsen

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 6/4/2010 11:29 AM, Jim wrote:
    > "Bill Davidsen"<> wrote in message
    > news:hu9f3g$j3s$-september.org...
    >> The new unlocked i5 and i7 CPUs hit the market today on sites like Newegg
    >> and TigerDirect. At least on Newegg they are OEM, no cooling provided.
    >> Claims of 4GHz with air cooling have been on the net, but as my
    >> grandmother used to say, "The paper hold still" (her translation from the
    >> German).

    > I wouldn't call 875K for $330 cheap. And you can get a Ph2 x4 BE for $125
    > which makes the dual core 655K for $210 a terrible value. Getting 4GHZ on a
    > 920/930 isn't difficult though the unlocked multi means you can use cheap
    > RAM&mobo so total platform cost the 875K probably wins by a little.
    > I find the 32nm quad Xeon for $390 that recently showed up on NewEgg more
    > interesting though the low multiplier makes hard to reach higher overclocks.


    Looks like the AMD overclock specials still hold a value advantage
    over the Intel ones. You usually get more cores for the same price,
    and of course the motherboards are much cheaper usually.

    Yousuf Khan

    ***
    Intel Core i5-655K and Core i7-875K Reviewed - Conclusion: You Can't
    Beat the Overclock - Reviews by ExtremeTech
    "Both CPUs strike us as Intel's attempts to shore up the budget
    sectors of its lineup—especially given the inroads AMD has been making
    in those areas of late (such as with its promise-packed, yet
    relatively affordable, Phenom II X6 six-core processor). We're not
    entirely sure Intel will be able to capture it in the long term, but
    if the company can price more LGA1156 chips as aggressively as it has
    the Core i7-875K, it may have a real chance."
    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2364281,00.asp
     
    Yousuf Khan, Jun 6, 2010
    #3
  4. Bill Davidsen

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On Jun 5, 10:15 am, Bill Davidsen <> wrote:
    > Jim wrote:
    > > "Bill Davidsen" <> wrote in message
    > >news:hu9f3g$j3s$-september.org...
    > >> The new unlocked i5 and i7 CPUs hit the market today on sites like Newegg
    > >> and TigerDirect. At least on Newegg they are OEM, no cooling provided.
    > >> Claims of 4GHz with air cooling have been on the net, but as my
    > >> grandmother used to say, "The paper hold still" (her translation from the
    > >> German).

    > > I wouldn't call 875K for $330 cheap.

    >
    > The previous unlocked CPU was about $1000, the i5 model is $200. Comparing Intel
    > to AMD or SPARC isn't really useful in decision making.


    AMD is considerably more relevant to Intel than SPARC is. SPARC isn't
    an x86-compatible processor, but both Intel and AMD are.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Jun 6, 2010
    #4
  5. Bill Davidsen

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Jun 6, 3:42 pm, Yousuf Khan <> wrote:
    > On 6/4/2010 11:29 AM, Jim wrote:
    >
    > > "Bill Davidsen"<>  wrote in message
    > >news:hu9f3g$j3s$-september.org...
    > >> The new unlocked i5 and i7 CPUs hit the market today on sites like Newegg
    > >> and TigerDirect. At least on Newegg they are OEM, no cooling provided.
    > >> Claims of 4GHz with air cooling have been on the net, but as my
    > >> grandmother used to say, "The paper hold still" (her translation from the
    > >> German).

    > > I wouldn't call 875K for $330 cheap.  And you can get a Ph2 x4 BE for$125
    > > which makes the dual core 655K for $210 a terrible value.  Getting 4GHZ on a
    > > 920/930 isn't difficult though the unlocked multi means you can use cheap
    > > RAM&mobo so total platform cost the 875K probably wins by a little.
    > > I find the 32nm quad Xeon for $390 that recently showed up on NewEgg more
    > > interesting though the low multiplier makes hard to reach higher overclocks.

    >
    > Looks like the AMD overclock specials still hold a value advantage
    > over the Intel ones. You usually get more cores for the same price,
    > and of course the motherboards are much cheaper usually.
    >


    1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    processors?

    2. For whom is cores/$ a meaningful figure of merit?

    3. I'm always curious about what's going on inside Intel's marketing
    department, but I don't think I'd read extremetech to find out.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 7, 2010
    #5
  6. Robert Myers wrote:
    > On Jun 6, 3:42 pm, Yousuf Khan <> wrote:
    >> On 6/4/2010 11:29 AM, Jim wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Bill Davidsen"<> wrote in message
    >>> news:hu9f3g$j3s$-september.org...
    >>>> The new unlocked i5 and i7 CPUs hit the market today on sites like Newegg
    >>>> and TigerDirect. At least on Newegg they are OEM, no cooling provided.
    >>>> Claims of 4GHz with air cooling have been on the net, but as my
    >>>> grandmother used to say, "The paper hold still" (her translation from the
    >>>> German).
    >>> I wouldn't call 875K for $330 cheap. And you can get a Ph2 x4 BE for $125
    >>> which makes the dual core 655K for $210 a terrible value. Getting 4GHZ on a
    >>> 920/930 isn't difficult though the unlocked multi means you can use cheap
    >>> RAM&mobo so total platform cost the 875K probably wins by a little.
    >>> I find the 32nm quad Xeon for $390 that recently showed up on NewEgg more
    >>> interesting though the low multiplier makes hard to reach higher overclocks.

    >> Looks like the AMD overclock specials still hold a value advantage
    >> over the Intel ones. You usually get more cores for the same price,
    >> and of course the motherboards are much cheaper usually.
    >>

    >
    > 1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    > processors?
    >

    Because all Intel-compatible processors are fair game. Also, as good a place as
    any, both Intel and AMD have their fanboys here, so there's bilateral partisanship.

    > 2. For whom is cores/$ a meaningful figure of merit?
    >

    I think that fell out of a discussion of computing power/$ and each reader
    determines the way in which comments are useful. I personally think that's a bad
    nit to pick, being a value judgement based on a hard verifiable ratio. You will
    get more people who say "I don't use it" than "it doesn't mean anything."

    > 3. I'm always curious about what's going on inside Intel's marketing
    > department, but I don't think I'd read extremetech to find out.
    >

    I doubt that this group is better.

    > Robert.
     
    Bill Davidsen, Jun 7, 2010
    #6
  7. Bill Davidsen

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Jun 6, 8:54 pm, Bill Davidsen <> wrote:
    > Robert Myers wrote:
    > > On Jun 6, 3:42 pm, Yousuf  Khan <> wrote:
    > >> On 6/4/2010 11:29 AM, Jim wrote:

    >
    > >>> "Bill Davidsen"<>  wrote in message
    > >>>news:hu9f3g$j3s$-september.org...
    > >>>> The new unlocked i5 and i7 CPUs hit the market today on sites like Newegg
    > >>>> and TigerDirect. At least on Newegg they are OEM, no cooling provided.
    > >>>> Claims of 4GHz with air cooling have been on the net, but as my
    > >>>> grandmother used to say, "The paper hold still" (her translation from the
    > >>>> German).
    > >>> I wouldn't call 875K for $330 cheap.  And you can get a Ph2 x4 BE for $125
    > >>> which makes the dual core 655K for $210 a terrible value.  Getting 4GHZ on a
    > >>> 920/930 isn't difficult though the unlocked multi means you can use cheap
    > >>> RAM&mobo so total platform cost the 875K probably wins by a little.
    > >>> I find the 32nm quad Xeon for $390 that recently showed up on NewEgg more
    > >>> interesting though the low multiplier makes hard to reach higher overclocks.
    > >> Looks like the AMD overclock specials still hold a value advantage
    > >> over the Intel ones. You usually get more cores for the same price,
    > >> and of course the motherboards are much cheaper usually.

    >
    > > 1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    > > processors?

    >
    > Because all Intel-compatible processors are fair game. Also, as good a place as
    > any, both Intel and AMD have their fanboys here, so there's bilateral partisanship.
    >

    comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips is the home pub for amd fanboys.
    Yousuf knows that.

    > > 2. For whom is cores/$ a meaningful figure of merit?

    >
    > I think that fell out of a discussion of computing power/$ and each reader
    > determines the way in which comments are useful. I personally think that's a bad
    > nit to pick, being a value judgement based on a hard verifiable ratio. You will
    > get more people who say "I don't use it" than "it doesn't mean anything."
    >

    I didn't make any value judgments. Maybe someone wants to test
    scaling of algorithms and wants lots of cores and doesn't care about
    anything else. As a general comment about the value proposition for
    processors (and here is my value judgment), though, it's almost as
    lame as thinking that a 64-bit processor is twice as powerful as a 32-
    bit processor.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 7, 2010
    #7
  8. Bill Davidsen

    Nate Edel Guest

    Robert Myers <> wrote:
    > 1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    > processors?


    Is comp.sys.intel specifically for discussion of Intel products, or for
    broader discussions of the intel-architecture (as sold by a number of
    manufacturers in the past, and Intel/AMD/Via today.)

    > 2. For whom is cores/$ a meaningful figure of merit?


    On its own, nothing, but it's suggestive of looking at some more benchmarks
    for someone with a very highly parallelizable workload - currently, the
    6-core Phenom II 1090T actually beats the comparably-priced i7s (870 or 930)
    for video encoding with some codecs[*].

    [* ignoring a few super-cheap deals on those two chips that Microcenter has
    had, and also ignoring the cheaper motherboards as compared to the 930]

    --
    Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
    preferred email |
    is "nate" at the | "I do have a cause, though. It's obscenity. I'm
    posting domain | for it."
     
    Nate Edel, Jun 7, 2010
    #8
  9. Bill Davidsen

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Jun 6, 11:38 pm, (Nate Edel) wrote:
    > Robert Myers <> wrote:
    > > 1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    > > processors?

    >
    > Is comp.sys.intel specifically for discussion of Intel products, or for
    > broader discussions of the intel-architecture (as sold by a number of
    > manufacturers in the past, and Intel/AMD/Via today.)
    >

    Historically, AMD fanboy wars have taken place elsewhere. I'd like to
    see that pattern continue.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 7, 2010
    #9
  10. Bill Davidsen

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Jun 7, 7:27 am, Robert Myers <> wrote:
    > On Jun 6, 11:38 pm, (Nate Edel) wrote:> Robert Myers <> wrote:
    > > > 1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    > > > processors?

    >
    > > Is comp.sys.intel specifically for discussion of Intel products, or for
    > > broader discussions of the intel-architecture (as sold by a number of
    > > manufacturers in the past, and Intel/AMD/Via today.)

    >
    > Historically, AMD fanboy wars have taken place elsewhere.  I'd like to
    > see that pattern continue.
    >

    In addition to which, I can't remember seeing a single meaningful
    comment here about Intel architecture, which is not the same as AMD
    architecture, which, in either case, changes from one model to
    another, unlike the Instruction Set Architecture, which is perhaps
    what you meant.

    If you're a c or asm coder, you may think the ISA is the end of the
    story, or even a big part of the story, but that doesn't make it so.

    Given that this group has so little to say in depth about Intel
    processors, why spread the BS even thinner?

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 7, 2010
    #10
  11. Robert Myers wrote:
    > On Jun 6, 11:38 pm, (Nate Edel) wrote:
    >> Robert Myers <> wrote:
    >>> 1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    >>> processors?

    >> Is comp.sys.intel specifically for discussion of Intel products, or for
    >> broader discussions of the intel-architecture (as sold by a number of
    >> manufacturers in the past, and Intel/AMD/Via today.)
    >>

    > Historically, AMD fanboy wars have taken place elsewhere. I'd like to
    > see that pattern continue.
    >

    I'd like a lot of things, too. However, reasonable technical comparisons are
    useful, I'm happy just to keep the politics and quasi-religious out. I certainly
    find the discussions of things like memory bus and SMP interconnect to either
    provide useful fact or at least prompt a search for it.
     
    Bill Davidsen, Jun 7, 2010
    #11
  12. Bill Davidsen

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Jun 7, 3:56 pm, Bill Davidsen <> wrote:
    > Robert Myers wrote:


    >
    > > Historically, AMD fanboy wars have taken place elsewhere.  I'd like to
    > > see that pattern continue.

    >
    > I'd like a lot of things, too. However, reasonable technical comparisons are
    > useful, I'm happy just to keep the politics and quasi-religious out.


    You really want that? Then lay off me. Mind the AMD fanboys. That's
    where all the quasi-legal, quasi-political, quasi-financial, quasi-
    moral, and quasi-economic speculation has come from. So long as they
    keep spreading it here, I will keep responding here, your lack of
    manners and overconfidence in your own judgment notwithstanding.

    I had a German grandmother, too.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 7, 2010
    #12
  13. Bill Davidsen

    gg Guest

    >>1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    >>processors?

    for one, I don't expect AMD but Intel
    if the group named something like intel-compatable or x86 I would expect AMD
    and even Via included along with intel.
    >><snipped>
    >>Robert.
     
    gg, Jun 8, 2010
    #13
  14. Bill Davidsen

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Jun 8, 2:13 am, "gg" <> wrote:
    > >>1. Why would someone read comp.sys.intel for advice about buying AMD
    > >>processors?

    >
    >     for one, I don't expect AMD but Intel
    > if the group named something like intel-compatable or x86 I would expect AMD
    > and even Via included along with intel.
    >


    By that standard, comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips would be out of
    business (and it just about is, actually) because there are no ibm
    pc's any more. Historically, that group has been a catch all for chip
    issues relating to "ibm-compatible" PC's. That seems about right.
    Ironically, there have been good technical conversations on csiphc,
    but about memory subsystems, not about CPU's. The Intel-AMD wars have
    been just about as pointless there as they have been here, but it does
    give the AMD fanboys a place to pursue their fantasies in peace. The
    days when "which chip is ahead today" was an interesting discussion
    are long gone.

    If I want information or informed speculation about how either AMD or
    Intel is conducting its business or about the possible effects of
    litigation and regulatory actions, there is an entire professional
    business press out there that pays a lot of attention to Intel and
    AMD. The business press will never, of course, satisfy the emotional
    needs of AMD fan boys praying for apocalyptic destruction of Intel.
    Those aspirations will inevitably wind up somewhere--just not in a
    group committed to discussion of Intel systems, if the world makes any
    sense at all.

    The ISA hides a lot of detail that is potentially important to the end
    user. Such benchmarks as there are and conversations that take place
    in these groups rarely expose those features, because most discussions
    and benchmarks now center around doing the same thing over and over
    again with a zillion bytes applications. That's understandable,
    actually. Those are the only applications that currently know how to
    use multiple cores effectively enough to stress the resources, at
    least at the moment. If those are the *only* applications that will
    ever commonly stress the resources of multi-core CPU's, computer
    architecture is at a dead end, and there isn't much left to talk
    about.

    If someone knows enough about *both* Intel and AMD cpu's to profitably
    discuss technical differences that might matter to an end user, by all
    means, bring the discussion here. Personally, I expect to see a
    unicorn before I see that happen, now that Intel has finally ditched
    the front-side bus.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Jun 8, 2010
    #14
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