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Newegg has Diamond X1950 Pro 512MB AGP

Discussion in 'ATI' started by Too_Much_Coffee ®, Dec 30, 2006.

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  1. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    me/2 Guest

    On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:33:12 -0800, "Too_Much_Coffee ®"
    <> wrote:

    :>$290.00 USD
    :>
    :>
    :>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103024
    :>
    :>or
    :>
    :>http://tinyurl.com/yec4gl
    :>

    So other than Shader Model 3.0 what does this offer over a X850XT PE
    AGP card? Performance improvement worth the cost? Is it really only 12
    pipelines? Any information will be appreciated. I haven't been
    following the specs on the newer chips lately since none of them
    seemed to offer a performance increase over what I've already got.

    Thanks,
    me/2
     
    me/2, Dec 30, 2006
    #2
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  2. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    oldwolf Guest

    Have a look here: http://www.diamondmm.com/X1950PRO512AGP.php
    Has 36/8, same as PCI-E version.


    "me/2" <null@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:33:12 -0800, "Too_Much_Coffee ®"
    <> wrote:

    :>$290.00 USD
    :>
    :>
    :>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103024
    :>
    :>or
    :>
    :>http://tinyurl.com/yec4gl
    :>

    So other than Shader Model 3.0 what does this offer over a X850XT PE
    AGP card? Performance improvement worth the cost? Is it really only 12
    pipelines? Any information will be appreciated. I haven't been
    following the specs on the newer chips lately since none of them
    seemed to offer a performance increase over what I've already got.

    Thanks,
    me/2
     
    oldwolf, Dec 30, 2006
    #3
  3. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Kent_Diego Guest

    > $290.00 USD
    >
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103024
    >
    > or
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/yec4gl
    >
    >

    Newegg is a great place to shop. I was looking at the PowerColor X1950 Pro
    review on FiringSquad.com earlier today. That version has a very nice
    looking cooler attached and is only $259 at Directron. I saw it for $249
    somewhere but cannot find again. The Sapphire version with 512MB for $249 is
    at AllStartShop.com (but out of stock). You could buy a much inferior 7800GS
    or X850XT for similar price as the X1950 Pro. Best AGP performance at a
    reasonable price.
     
    Kent_Diego, Dec 30, 2006
    #4
  4. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Kent_Diego Guest

    Kent_Diego, Dec 30, 2006
    #5
  5. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    First of One Guest

    FiringSquad has a comparison between the X1950 Pro and the previously
    fastest AGP cards like the X850XT PE and 7800GS. Whether the performance
    improvement is worth the upgrade depends on the max resolution of your
    monitor and the games you play:
    http://firingsquad.com/hardware/powercolor_radeon_x1950_pro_agp_review/page5.asp

    Even though the X1950 Pro has 12 texture units, keep in mind it has 36 pixel
    shaders versus 16 on the X850XT. Shader-heavy games will see the X1950 Pro
    pull ahead, with a wider margin at high resolutions. (More pixels - more
    pixel shader operations.) The X1950 Pro is 60% faster in Company of Heroes,
    60% faster in Pacific Fighters, 40% faster in BF2142, and 18% faster in
    Quake 4.

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

    "me/2" <null@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:...
    > So other than Shader Model 3.0 what does this offer over a X850XT PE
    > AGP card? Performance improvement worth the cost? Is it really only 12
    > pipelines? Any information will be appreciated. I haven't been
    > following the specs on the newer chips lately since none of them
    > seemed to offer a performance increase over what I've already got.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > me/2
     
    First of One, Dec 30, 2006
    #6
  6. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Guest Guest

    "First of One" <root@localhost> wrote in message news:...
    > FiringSquad has a comparison between the X1950 Pro and the previously
    > fastest AGP cards like the X850XT PE and 7800GS.


    Not all 7800GS's are created equal. Gainward's 7800GS+
    has 24 pipes, 512MB, SM3.0, dual-link DVI etc. I'm hoping
    to see side-by-side performance benchmarks with the GS+
    and X1950 AGP.
     
    Guest, Dec 30, 2006
    #7
  7. me/2 wrote:
    > On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:33:12 -0800, "Too_Much_Coffee ®"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>> $290.00 USD
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103024
    >>>
    >>> or
    >>>
    >>> http://tinyurl.com/yec4gl
    >>>

    >
    > So other than Shader Model 3.0 what does this offer over a

    X850XT PE
    > AGP card? Performance improvement worth the cost? Is it really

    only
    > 12 pipelines? Any information will be appreciated. I haven't

    been
    > following the specs on the newer chips lately since none of

    them
    > seemed to offer a performance increase over what I've already

    got.

    Here's a review in German that compares several of the fastest
    AGP cards. No 850 but the 800 is there. No need to translate
    really.

    http://www.hartware.de/review_668.html

    It would have been nice if all the cards tested had the same
    amount of memory. Considering the difference in price, the
    7800GS doesn't look too bad. Newegg only wants $175.99 for the
    BFG 7800GS OC. The 256MB X1950 AGP is only $240 at Amazon but it
    won't be available until Jan 15.

    Amazon:
    http://tinyurl.com/yglhzr

    TMC
    >
    > Thanks,
    > me/2
     
    Too_Much_Coffee ®, Dec 30, 2006
    #8
  8. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    First of One Guest

    The Gainward 7800GS+ is essentially a 7900GT on AGP, so at best it will
    perform like a regular 7900GT. The X1950 Pro AGP has been shown to perform
    almost identically to its PCIe counterpart. There are plenty of articles
    that include both the 7900GT and X1950 Pro PCIe, like this one:
    http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2858&p=5 . It can be seen that
    the two chipsets offer very similar levels of performance.

    Note the Gainward 7800GS+ still carries an inflated pricetag. With PCIe
    7900GT cards dropping in price continuously, the disparity is almost at a
    factor of two.

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

    <> wrote in message
    news:9wnlh.55538$...
    > "First of One" <root@localhost> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> FiringSquad has a comparison between the X1950 Pro and the previously
    >> fastest AGP cards like the X850XT PE and 7800GS.

    >
    > Not all 7800GS's are created equal. Gainward's 7800GS+
    > has 24 pipes, 512MB, SM3.0, dual-link DVI etc. I'm hoping
    > to see side-by-side performance benchmarks with the GS+
    > and X1950 AGP.
     
    First of One, Dec 30, 2006
    #9
  9. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Guest Guest

    "First of One" <root@localhost> wrote in message news:...
    > The Gainward 7800GS+ is essentially a 7900GT on AGP, so at best it will
    > perform like a regular 7900GT.


    Not quite true. The GS+ has 512MB and is substantially
    more overclockable than the GS. On the PCIE side you
    need to move to a GTX for comparable performance.

    > The X1950 Pro AGP has been shown to perform
    > almost identically to its PCIe counterpart. There are plenty of articles
    > that include both the 7900GT and X1950 Pro PCIe, like this one:
    > http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2858&p=5 . It can be seen that
    > the two chipsets offer very similar levels of performance.
    >
    > Note the Gainward 7800GS+ still carries an inflated pricetag.


    See above. The proper comparison is with a GTX, and in
    that case the price is only slightly inflated, if at all.
     
    Guest, Dec 30, 2006
    #10
  10. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    First of One Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:LFolh.10462$...
    > Not quite true. The GS+ has 512MB and is substantially
    > more overclockable than the GS. On the PCIE side you
    > need to move to a GTX for comparable performance.


    Common misconception. Remember a "real" GTX can be overclocked further. Many
    7900GTs fitted with a $30 Arctic Cooler can overclock just as well as
    Gainward's GS+.

    For what it's worth, the Powercolor X1950 Pro, in both PCIe and AGP forms,
    has an AC Accelero X2. It, too, can overclock very well.

    512 MB has shown to be of very little benefit in games, even at high-res
    with AA, where the framebuffer requirements are the most demanding. The
    extra RAM is probably padding up the price, but it doesn't *justify* the
    price because it doesn't improve the gaming experience.

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
     
    First of One, Dec 30, 2006
    #11
  11. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Guest Guest

    "First of One" <root@localhost> wrote in message news:...
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:LFolh.10462$...
    > > Not quite true. The GS+ has 512MB and is substantially
    > > more overclockable than the GS. On the PCIE side you
    > > need to move to a GTX for comparable performance.

    >
    > Common misconception. Remember a "real" GTX can be overclocked further. Many
    > 7900GTs fitted with a $30 Arctic Cooler can overclock just as well as
    > Gainward's GS+.
    >
    > For what it's worth, the Powercolor X1950 Pro, in both PCIe and AGP forms,
    > has an AC Accelero X2. It, too, can overclock very well.
    >
    > 512 MB has shown to be of very little benefit in games, even at high-res
    > with AA, where the framebuffer requirements are the most demanding.


    Benchmarks for games like Oblivion, FEAR etc beg to differ.
    There are substantial benefits to 512MB, e.g.
    http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/oblivion_high-end_performance/page3.asp

    7900GT: 45.5 FPS

    7900GTX: 70.8 FPS
     
    Guest, Dec 30, 2006
    #12
  12. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    First of One Guest

    Er, nope. The benefits come from the GTX's higher default clock speed, not
    its 512 MB of RAM. I hope you are not implying the only difference between
    the 7900GT and GTX is the amount of RAM?

    At the same clock speeds, 512 MB makes no difference. Here's an article from
    the 7800GTX512 review (when 512 MB first became fashionable). FEAR is among
    the games used.
    http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7800_gtx_512mb/page3.asp

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

    <> wrote in message
    news:7kAlh.7886$...
    > "First of One" <root@localhost> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > 512 MB has shown to be of very little benefit in games, even at high-res
    > > with AA, where the framebuffer requirements are the most demanding.

    >
    > Benchmarks for games like Oblivion, FEAR etc beg to differ.
    > There are substantial benefits to 512MB, e.g.
    > http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/oblivion_high-end_performance/page3.asp
    >
    > 7900GT: 45.5 FPS
    >
    > 7900GTX: 70.8 FPS
     
    First of One, Dec 30, 2006
    #13
  13. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Nonymous Guest

    "First of One" <root@localhost> wrote in
    news::

    > <> wrote in message
    > news:LFolh.10462$...
    >> Not quite true. The GS+ has 512MB and is substantially
    >> more overclockable than the GS. On the PCIE side you
    >> need to move to a GTX for comparable performance.

    >
    > Common misconception. Remember a "real" GTX can be overclocked
    > further. Many 7900GTs fitted with a $30 Arctic Cooler can overclock
    > just as well as Gainward's GS+.
    >
    > For what it's worth, the Powercolor X1950 Pro, in both PCIe and AGP
    > forms, has an AC Accelero X2. It, too, can overclock very well.
    >
    > 512 MB has shown to be of very little benefit in games, even at
    > high-res with AA, where the framebuffer requirements are the most
    > demanding. The extra RAM is probably padding up the price, but it
    > doesn't *justify* the price because it doesn't improve the gaming
    > experience.


    Well, the extra RAM doesn't necessarily help performance, and in fact, the
    card might actually be a smidge slower than a 256MB version. But can't
    better visual experience due to larger textures justify it?

    i.e., might it not be worth it to take 512 card over a 256 card and accept,
    say, a 3fps hit, if I see a noticeably better looking game due to higher
    quality textures that I can load into it?
     
    Nonymous, Dec 31, 2006
    #14
  14. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Nonymous Guest

    "Too_Much_Coffee ®" <> wrote in
    news::

    > $290.00 USD
    >
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103024
    >
    > or
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/yec4gl


    Looking at the images, it appears to be using the same crappy cooler as the
    Sapphire 512MB card. (Which can be seen in images in its review at
    www.driverheaven.net) :(

    I was hoping (expecting) Diamond to use the same cooler as they do on their
    PCIe version of the card. Silly me.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103022
     
    Nonymous, Dec 31, 2006
    #15
  15. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    First of One Guest

    The benchmark comparisons are always done with equal in-game quality
    settings, and often already at the maximum available settings. With the
    advent of AGP texturing all cards can load the highest-quality textures. The
    expectation is, cards with less onboard memory will see more content spill
    over into system memory, and run slower. With current games we are not
    seeing this difference between 256 MB and 512 MB cards.

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

    "Nonymous" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns98A9CD83DEFE5nonymous666@216.196.97.131...
    > Well, the extra RAM doesn't necessarily help performance, and in fact, the
    > card might actually be a smidge slower than a 256MB version. But can't
    > better visual experience due to larger textures justify it?
    >
    > i.e., might it not be worth it to take 512 card over a 256 card and
    > accept,
    > say, a 3fps hit, if I see a noticeably better looking game due to higher
    > quality textures that I can load into it?
    >
     
    First of One, Dec 31, 2006
    #16
  16. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    First of One Guest

    The "crappy" cooler is roughly the same size as the "good" one, with a
    similarly sized fan. It has a copper inlay contacting the GPU die. It seems
    to follow the ATi reference design:
    http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2858&p=2

    Nowhere nearly as good as Powercolor's AC Accelero X2, though:
    http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/powercolor_radeon_x1950_pro_agp_review/

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

    "Nonymous" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns98A9D29972E6Cnonymous666@216.196.97.131...
    > Looking at the images, it appears to be using the same crappy cooler as
    > the
    > Sapphire 512MB card. (Which can be seen in images in its review at
    > www.driverheaven.net) :(
    >
    > I was hoping (expecting) Diamond to use the same cooler as they do on
    > their
    > PCIe version of the card. Silly me.
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103022
     
    First of One, Dec 31, 2006
    #17
  17. Too_Much_Coffee ®, Jan 1, 2007
    #18
  18. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Nonymous Guest

    "Too_Much_Coffee ®" <> wrote in
    news::

    > http://tinyurl.com/yec4gl


    Guess so. I definitely saw it there a couple days ago. It wasn't easy to
    find.

    It could be it's just lost in newegg's database as it seemed to be not
    categorized right in the first place. The only way I could originally find
    it was to browse to Video Cards, then view all the Diamond products and
    then start scrolling through the thirdy-some results. If I searched on it
    (such as "X1950PRO"), only the PCIe versions showed up, and if I tried to
    browse to it a different way (such as show me all AGP-based ATI cards), it
    wouldn't come up.

    I've seen several posts this weekend on various forums telling people that
    newegg had it. I wouldn't be surprised if those posts essentially let the
    cat out of the bag and they're now all gone.
     
    Nonymous, Jan 1, 2007
    #19
  19. Too_Much_Coffee ®

    Hawkeye Guest

    Keep checking back. Newegg does that alot when they sell out. It will
    show back up again.
     
    Hawkeye, Jan 2, 2007
    #20
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