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OC on E2160, possible without tuning vcore?

Discussion in 'Overclocking' started by Fabio Corazza, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. I've heard this is possible - major doubt is: will it affect stability?

    Based on the fact that new Penryn 45nm CPUs will start to have
    reasonable pricing around the end of the year (or, though, not before
    this summer) for the meantime I've decided to go for a cheap CPU with
    good OC possibilities.

    Components I have intention to buy are the following:

    Motherboard Gigabyte P35-DS3 S775 P35 ATX S775, 1333/1066/800 MHz FSB,
    Intel P35 Express Chipset, supports DDR2 1066/800/667/533 memory up to
    8GB by 4 DIMM slots

    Memory DDR2 PC800 2GB NonECC Kit of 22x 1GB CL5 240Pin
    128Mx64BitKVR800D2N5K2/2G 1.8v

    CPU E2160 1.8ghz

    CPU is boxed and comes bundled with its own fan and heatsink. Will it be
    necessary to buy an aftermarket cooling system or will it be enough the
    stock one for, let's say, a 3GHz OC?

    Regarding the memory, those will be Kingston Valueram @1.8v. I've heard
    that in some cases to improve stability is necessary to overclock the
    RAM as well. Will this be a concerning factor or not, since to reach the
    3GHz seems to be enough to play just on FSB and multiplier (hence not
    necessary to modify the vcore)?

    A further question: why does stability usually get improved raising the
    voltage of the RAM? You can also post a link if it's too bothersome
    explaining it here :)


    P.S.: for gaming (not an heavy gamer though) a configuration like this
    in companion with a 8600GT (standard frequencies) shall run well or CPU
    will show up as bottleneck?


    Thanks everyone for any reply, your help is appreciated :eek:)


    Regards,
    Fabio
     
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  2. Phil Weldon

    Phil Weldon Guest

    Question # 1:
    | CPU is boxed and comes bundled with its own fan and heatsink. Will it be
    | necessary to buy an aftermarket cooling system or will it be enough the
    | stock one for, let's say, a 3GHz OC?

    ** Probably you will not need after market cooling. The chances that the
    stock cooling will be sufficient are good enough to try it first, then
    consider better cooling if you overclock is limited by heat (a fairly simple
    test to see if CPU temperature is a limiting factor is to try overclocking
    with a much lower ambient room temperature {which should be easy if you have
    a cold winter]).

    Question #2:
    | Regarding the memory, those will be Kingston Valueram @1.8v. I've heard
    | that in some cases to improve stability is necessary to overclock the
    | RAM as well. Will this be a concerning factor or not, since to reach the
    | 3GHz seems to be enough to play just on FSB and multiplier (hence not
    | necessary to modify the vcore)?

    **It is not necessary to overclock memory for stability; instead, if
    necessary you can change the CPU clock : memory clock ratio. Early on with
    DDR2 memory the ratio was usually set to 2:1 so that DDR2 667 memory could
    be used with a 1333 MHz FSB. DDR2 1333 memory could be used with the CPU
    clock : memory clock ratio set to 1:1 for a small increase in performance at
    a LARGE increase in price. Several confusing terminologies are used to
    identify DDR2 memory; PC 6400 = DDR2 800, PC 8500 memory = DDR2 1066
    memory, PC 10600 = DDR2 1333 (sometimes PC2 is used instead of PC, sometimes
    PC and DDR2 are reversed.)

    You will need to use a FSB of 1333 MHz to overclock an E2160 to 3 GHz. With
    your chosen DDR2 800 memory you will need to set a CPU clock : memory clock
    ratio that avoids clocking the memory beyond its capability (perhaps an FSB
    of 1000 MHz.) Increasing the memory voltage and increasing the memory
    operation timings can extend the top FSB speed.

    There is NO guarantee that you will not need to increase the CPU core
    voltage to overclock. None at all... ever. There is NO guarantee that you
    can even reach 3 GHz, no matter WHAT you do with voltages, FSB speed,
    timings, and cooling. None at all... ever.

    Question #3:
    | A further question: why does stability usually get improved raising the
    | voltage of the RAM? You can also post a link if it's too bothersome
    | explaining it here :)

    **Overclocking is accomplished on Intel CPUs by trading the safe operating
    margins built into the CPUs for higher speed. The CPUs are designed to
    operate correctly with less than optimum systems (dirty heatsink fins,
    failing fans, poor voltage control, high system case temperatures, high
    motherboard temperatures, marginal memory, etc.) You can add to the built
    in performance margins by reducing temperatures and raising voltages. A
    higher voltage helps transistors switch more quickly; this has a direct
    effect on the CPU operating speed. The higher voltage also helps with pulse
    shapes and timings.

    Question #4:
    | P.S.: for gaming (not an heavy gamer though) a configuration like this
    | in companion with a 8600GT (standard frequencies) shall run well or CPU
    | will show up as bottleneck?

    **It is likely that a GeForce 8600 GT will be the bottleneck in a 3 GHz
    E2160 system. More important, the E2160 is essentially the Celeron of the
    Core2 Duo series of CPUs. It has only half the L2 cache as the E4400 and
    only one fourth the L2 cache as a E6600. If you compare the total price of
    a system based on the E2160 with a system based on the E4400 the extra cost
    of the E4400 over the E2160 (~ $45 US), the increase is small (less than
    10%).

    *****

    I suggest you make use of the posts over the last ten months in this
    newsgroup. Information for most of your questions has already been
    discussed. It is unlikely you will get an EXACT answer from someone who
    already has the EXACT same equipment you describe, so there are many prior
    post that will be as useful as any information as you can get from your
    questions.

    For example, my system with an E4300 1.8 GHz 800 MHz FSB CPU runs very
    nicely at 2.7 GHz (a 50% overclock) with LOWER than normal CPU voltage. I'd
    rather use 2.7 GHz at lower than normal voltage and temperature than
    increase the voltage (and perhaps the cooling) to gain a few more MHz.

    Phil Weldon

    "Fabio Corazza" <> wrote in message
    news:fm0sbg$pp4$...
    | I've heard this is possible - major doubt is: will it affect stability?
    |
    | Based on the fact that new Penryn 45nm CPUs will start to have
    | reasonable pricing around the end of the year (or, though, not before
    | this summer) for the meantime I've decided to go for a cheap CPU with
    | good OC possibilities.
    |
    | Components I have intention to buy are the following:
    |
    | Motherboard Gigabyte P35-DS3 S775 P35 ATX S775, 1333/1066/800 MHz FSB,
    | Intel P35 Express Chipset, supports DDR2 1066/800/667/533 memory up to
    | 8GB by 4 DIMM slots
    |
    | Memory DDR2 PC800 2GB NonECC Kit of 22x 1GB CL5 240Pin
    | 128Mx64BitKVR800D2N5K2/2G 1.8v
    |
    | CPU E2160 1.8ghz
    |
    | CPU is boxed and comes bundled with its own fan and heatsink. Will it be
    | necessary to buy an aftermarket cooling system or will it be enough the
    | stock one for, let's say, a 3GHz OC?
    |
    | Regarding the memory, those will be Kingston Valueram @1.8v. I've heard
    | that in some cases to improve stability is necessary to overclock the
    | RAM as well. Will this be a concerning factor or not, since to reach the
    | 3GHz seems to be enough to play just on FSB and multiplier (hence not
    | necessary to modify the vcore)?
    |
    | A further question: why does stability usually get improved raising the
    | voltage of the RAM? You can also post a link if it's too bothersome
    | explaining it here :)
    |
    |
    | P.S.: for gaming (not an heavy gamer though) a configuration like this
    | in companion with a 8600GT (standard frequencies) shall run well or CPU
    | will show up as bottleneck?
    |
    |
    | Thanks everyone for any reply, your help is appreciated :eek:)
    |
    |
    | Regards,
    | Fabio
     
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  3. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Phil Weldon" typed:
    > Question # 1:
    >> CPU is boxed and comes bundled with its own fan and heatsink. Will
    >> it be necessary to buy an aftermarket cooling system or will it be
    >> enough the stock one for, let's say, a 3GHz OC?

    >
    > ** Probably you will not need after market cooling. The chances
    > that the stock cooling will be sufficient are good enough to try it
    > first, then consider better cooling if you overclock is limited by
    > heat (a fairly simple test to see if CPU temperature is a limiting
    > factor is to try overclocking with a much lower ambient room
    > temperature {which should be easy if you have a cold winter]).
    >
    > Question #2:
    >> Regarding the memory, those will be Kingston Valueram @1.8v. I've
    >> heard that in some cases to improve stability is necessary to
    >> overclock the RAM as well. Will this be a concerning factor or not,
    >> since to reach the 3GHz seems to be enough to play just on FSB and
    >> multiplier (hence not necessary to modify the vcore)?

    >
    > **It is not necessary to overclock memory for stability; instead, if
    > necessary you can change the CPU clock : memory clock ratio. Early
    > on with DDR2 memory the ratio was usually set to 2:1 so that DDR2 667
    > memory could be used with a 1333 MHz FSB. DDR2 1333 memory could be
    > used with the CPU clock : memory clock ratio set to 1:1 for a small
    > increase in performance at a LARGE increase in price. Several
    > confusing terminologies are used to identify DDR2 memory; PC 6400 =
    > DDR2 800, PC 8500 memory = DDR2 1066 memory, PC 10600 = DDR2 1333
    > (sometimes PC2 is used instead of PC, sometimes PC and DDR2 are
    > reversed.)
    >
    > You will need to use a FSB of 1333 MHz to overclock an E2160 to 3
    > GHz. With your chosen DDR2 800 memory you will need to set a CPU
    > clock : memory clock ratio that avoids clocking the memory beyond its
    > capability (perhaps an FSB of 1000 MHz.) Increasing the memory
    > voltage and increasing the memory operation timings can extend the
    > top FSB speed.
    >
    > There is NO guarantee that you will not need to increase the CPU core
    > voltage to overclock. None at all... ever. There is NO guarantee
    > that you can even reach 3 GHz, no matter WHAT you do with voltages,
    > FSB speed, timings, and cooling. None at all... ever.
    >
    > Question #3:
    >> A further question: why does stability usually get improved raising
    >> the voltage of the RAM? You can also post a link if it's too
    >> bothersome explaining it here :)

    >
    > **Overclocking is accomplished on Intel CPUs by trading the safe
    > operating margins built into the CPUs for higher speed. The CPUs are
    > designed to operate correctly with less than optimum systems (dirty
    > heatsink fins, failing fans, poor voltage control, high system case
    > temperatures, high motherboard temperatures, marginal memory, etc.)
    > You can add to the built in performance margins by reducing
    > temperatures and raising voltages. A higher voltage helps
    > transistors switch more quickly; this has a direct effect on the CPU
    > operating speed. The higher voltage also helps with pulse shapes and
    > timings.
    >
    > Question #4:
    >> P.S.: for gaming (not an heavy gamer though) a configuration like
    >> this in companion with a 8600GT (standard frequencies) shall run
    >> well or CPU will show up as bottleneck?

    >
    > **It is likely that a GeForce 8600 GT will be the bottleneck in a 3
    > GHz E2160 system. More important, the E2160 is essentially the
    > Celeron of the Core2 Duo series of CPUs. It has only half the L2
    > cache as the E4400 and only one fourth the L2 cache as a E6600. If
    > you compare the total price of a system based on the E2160 with a
    > system based on the E4400 the extra cost of the E4400 over the E2160
    > (~ $45 US), the increase is small (less than 10%).
    >
    > *****
    >
    > I suggest you make use of the posts over the last ten months in this
    > newsgroup. Information for most of your questions has already been
    > discussed. It is unlikely you will get an EXACT answer from someone
    > who already has the EXACT same equipment you describe, so there are
    > many prior post that will be as useful as any information as you can
    > get from your questions.
    >
    > For example, my system with an E4300 1.8 GHz 800 MHz FSB CPU runs very
    > nicely at 2.7 GHz (a 50% overclock) with LOWER than normal CPU
    > voltage. I'd rather use 2.7 GHz at lower than normal voltage and
    > temperature than increase the voltage (and perhaps the cooling) to
    > gain a few more MHz.


    Excellent post Phil, you have the patience of a saint. :)

    I hope you don't mind, I've saved it so that I can quote the bit about
    utilising the safe operating margins... Good work.

    I also agree, for the extra few bucks, a better "waiting for cheap Penyrn"
    CPU would be an E4xxx. I'm more than happy with my E4500 @ 3.3GHz.

    Also, personal preference coupled with a few recent reports and friend's
    experiences; I'd go with Asus over Gigabyte.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.
     
  4. SY

    SY Guest

    Take CPU E2180. It goes much higher. 3,2-3,6 Ghz


    "Fabio Corazza" <> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
    grupi:fm0sbg$pp4$...
     
  5. Wanderer

    Wanderer Guest

    Fabio Corazza <> wrote in news:fm0sbg$pp4$1
    @tdi.cu.mi.it:

    > I've heard this is possible - major doubt is: will it affect stability?
    >
    > Based on the fact that new Penryn 45nm CPUs will start to have
    > reasonable pricing around the end of the year (or, though, not before
    > this summer) for the meantime I've decided to go for a cheap CPU with
    > good OC possibilities.
    >
    > Components I have intention to buy are the following:
    >
    > Motherboard Gigabyte P35-DS3 S775 P35 ATX S775, 1333/1066/800 MHz FSB,
    > Intel P35 Express Chipset, supports DDR2 1066/800/667/533 memory up to
    > 8GB by 4 DIMM slots
    >
    > Memory DDR2 PC800 2GB NonECC Kit of 22x 1GB CL5 240Pin
    > 128Mx64BitKVR800D2N5K2/2G 1.8v
    >
    > CPU E2160 1.8ghz
    >
    > CPU is boxed and comes bundled with its own fan and heatsink. Will it

    be
    > necessary to buy an aftermarket cooling system or will it be enough the
    > stock one for, let's say, a 3GHz OC?
    >
    > Regarding the memory, those will be Kingston Valueram @1.8v. I've heard
    > that in some cases to improve stability is necessary to overclock the
    > RAM as well. Will this be a concerning factor or not, since to reach

    the
    > 3GHz seems to be enough to play just on FSB and multiplier (hence not
    > necessary to modify the vcore)?
    >
    > A further question: why does stability usually get improved raising the
    > voltage of the RAM? You can also post a link if it's too bothersome
    > explaining it here :)
    >
    >
    > P.S.: for gaming (not an heavy gamer though) a configuration like this
    > in companion with a 8600GT (standard frequencies) shall run well or CPU
    > will show up as bottleneck?
    >
    >
    > Thanks everyone for any reply, your help is appreciated :eek:)
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    > Fabio


    E2160 running rock solid stable at 3ghz 1333FSB on a GA-P35-DS3L with no
    voltage adjustment and stock intel heatsink. Can't remember my memory
    divider and can't reboot to look(I have 2 gig Crucial PC800 DDR2). PCI-E
    running at 100mhz. Idle temps around 18 to 21c. Cruising temps of 24 to
    26c (like at the monent) Full load temps (such as encoding) at 42c to
    46c.

    I did not buy this processor to over-clock it. I bought it to hold off
    for 6 months to a year and replace it. I have never liked OCing since it
    stresses all of your hardware. But after I got it and found that it was
    as simple as increasing the fsb on only the cpu I tried it and it is just
    sweet. I built this machine around the middle of Nov 07 and OCed the cpu
    2 days after I had it up and running. Just can't go wrong with this setup
    for an $82 USD cpu.

    P.S. This is a 67% overclock.
     
  6. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Wanderer" typed:
    > Fabio Corazza <> wrote in news:fm0sbg$pp4$1
    > @tdi.cu.mi.it:
    >
    >> I've heard this is possible - major doubt is: will it affect
    >> stability?
    >>
    >> Based on the fact that new Penryn 45nm CPUs will start to have
    >> reasonable pricing around the end of the year (or, though, not before
    >> this summer) for the meantime I've decided to go for a cheap CPU with
    >> good OC possibilities.
    >>
    >> Components I have intention to buy are the following:
    >>
    >> Motherboard Gigabyte P35-DS3 S775 P35 ATX S775, 1333/1066/800 MHz
    >> FSB, Intel P35 Express Chipset, supports DDR2 1066/800/667/533
    >> memory up to 8GB by 4 DIMM slots
    >>
    >> Memory DDR2 PC800 2GB NonECC Kit of 22x 1GB CL5 240Pin
    >> 128Mx64BitKVR800D2N5K2/2G 1.8v
    >>
    >> CPU E2160 1.8ghz
    >>
    >> CPU is boxed and comes bundled with its own fan and heatsink. Will
    >> it be necessary to buy an aftermarket cooling system or will it be
    >> enough the stock one for, let's say, a 3GHz OC?
    >>
    >> Regarding the memory, those will be Kingston Valueram @1.8v. I've
    >> heard that in some cases to improve stability is necessary to
    >> overclock the RAM as well. Will this be a concerning factor or not,
    >> since to reach the 3GHz seems to be enough to play just on FSB and
    >> multiplier (hence not necessary to modify the vcore)?
    >>
    >> A further question: why does stability usually get improved raising
    >> the voltage of the RAM? You can also post a link if it's too
    >> bothersome explaining it here :)
    >>
    >>
    >> P.S.: for gaming (not an heavy gamer though) a configuration like
    >> this in companion with a 8600GT (standard frequencies) shall run
    >> well or CPU will show up as bottleneck?
    >>
    >>
    >> Thanks everyone for any reply, your help is appreciated :eek:)
    >>
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Fabio

    >
    > E2160 running rock solid stable at 3ghz 1333FSB on a GA-P35-DS3L with
    > no voltage adjustment and stock intel heatsink. Can't remember my
    > memory divider and can't reboot to look(I have 2 gig Crucial PC800
    > DDR2). PCI-E running at 100mhz. Idle temps around 18 to 21c. Cruising
    > temps of 24 to 26c (like at the monent) Full load temps (such as
    > encoding) at 42c to 46c.
    >
    > I did not buy this processor to over-clock it. I bought it to hold off
    > for 6 months to a year and replace it. I have never liked OCing since
    > it stresses all of your hardware.


    Cough<bullshit>cough. <g>

    > But after I got it and found that
    > it was as simple as increasing the fsb on only the cpu I tried it and
    > it is just sweet. I built this machine around the middle of Nov 07
    > and OCed the cpu 2 days after I had it up and running. Just can't go
    > wrong with this setup for an $82 USD cpu.
    >
    > P.S. This is a 67% overclock.


    Congrats, that's a good OC. I only have 50% on my E4500.
    --
    Shaun.
     
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