OT Interesting Note

Discussion in 'Packard Bell' started by Kevin Childers, Aug 8, 2007.

  1. Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers) are
    really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of makes
    you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales staff,
    simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary on
    the current state of VISTA?
     
    Kevin Childers, Aug 8, 2007
    #1
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  2. Kevin Childers wrote:
    > Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    > sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers) are
    > really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    > every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    > wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of makes
    > you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales staff,
    > simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary on
    > the current state of VISTA?
    >
    >


    It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
    reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and
    they have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the
    business offerings have XP as well as Vista.

    Like it or not, new OS's will always have problems with legacy hardware
    and software. For consumers, this can be manageable In a corporate
    environment, it's no small thing to have to upgrade even one
    application. In many cases, it's just not possible. What is an
    acceptable cost to a consumer is not to a corporation. Try multiplying
    that $40 upgrade cost by 100 or 1,000 or even 10,000.... Add to that the
    manpower/hardware costs to do the upgrades and it becomes *VERY*
    expensive *VERY* fast...

    I support a small Hospice in upstate NY. We have two critical
    applications that the vendors will not support on Vista.

    Bottom line is that corporate acceptance of Vista is glacial compared to
    the consumer market....

    --

    Regards,
    Hank Arnold
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Server - Directory Services
     
    Hank Arnold (MVP), Aug 10, 2007
    #2
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  3. Kevin Childers

    Frank Guest

    Hank Arnold (MVP) wrote:
    > Kevin Childers wrote:
    >> Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    >> sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his
    >> coworkers) are
    >> really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    >> every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    >> wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of
    >> makes
    >> you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales
    >> staff,
    >> simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative
    >> commentary on
    >> the current state of VISTA?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
    > reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and
    > they have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the
    > business offerings have XP as well as Vista.
    >
    > Like it or not, new OS's will always have problems with legacy hardware
    > and software. For consumers, this can be manageable In a corporate
    > environment, it's no small thing to have to upgrade even one
    > application. In many cases, it's just not possible. What is an
    > acceptable cost to a consumer is not to a corporation. Try multiplying
    > that $40 upgrade cost by 100 or 1,000 or even 10,000.... Add to that the
    > manpower/hardware costs to do the upgrades and it becomes *VERY*
    > expensive *VERY* fast...
    >
    > I support a small Hospice in upstate NY. We have two critical
    > applications that the vendors will not support on Vista.
    >
    > Bottom line is that corporate acceptance of Vista is glacial compared to
    > the consumer market....
    >

    That's been my limited experience with a company I consult for. OS and
    software several years behind. Imagine transition cost for a
    corporation with thousands of pc's. Other clients pushed me into
    upgrading because I would often get in documents, usually latest Word
    versions, that I would have to tell producer to go back and save in
    earlier version that I can open and read.
    Frank
     
    Frank, Aug 10, 2007
    #3
  4. When I retired from the government in January 1998 they were just moving
    from DOS to Windows.

    Frank wrote:
    | That's been my limited experience with a company I consult for. OS
    | and software several years behind. Imagine transition cost for a
    | corporation with thousands of pc's. Other clients pushed me into
    | upgrading because I would often get in documents, usually latest Word
    | versions, that I would have to tell producer to go back and save in
    | earlier version that I can open and read.
    | Frank
     
    Joan F \(MI\), Aug 10, 2007
    #4
  5. Kevin Childers

    Notan Guest

    Joan F (MI) wrote:
    > When I retired from the government in January 1998 they were just moving
    > from DOS to Windows.


    <snip>

    The US Government living in the dark?

    Please, say it isn't so!

    --
    Notan
     
    Notan, Aug 11, 2007
    #5
  6. "Hank Arnold (MVP)" <> wrote in message
    news:D4Wui.359$...
    > Kevin Childers wrote:
    >> Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    >> sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers)
    >> are
    >> really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    >> every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    >> wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of
    >> makes
    >> you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales
    >> staff,
    >> simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary
    >> on
    >> the current state of VISTA?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
    > reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and they
    > have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the business
    > offerings have XP as well as Vista.
    >
    > Like it or not, new OS's will always have problems with legacy hardware
    > and software. For consumers, this can be manageable In a corporate
    > environment, it's no small thing to have to upgrade even one application.
    > In many cases, it's just not possible. What is an acceptable cost to a
    > consumer is not to a corporation. Try multiplying that $40 upgrade cost by
    > 100 or 1,000 or even 10,000.... Add to that the manpower/hardware costs to
    > do the upgrades and it becomes *VERY* expensive *VERY* fast...
    >
    > I support a small Hospice in upstate NY. We have two critical applications
    > that the vendors will not support on Vista.
    >
    > Bottom line is that corporate acceptance of Vista is glacial compared to
    > the consumer market....
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    > Hank Arnold
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Server - Directory Services


    Also look at the options, many consumer machines only offer VISTA as an OS
     
    Kevin Childers, Aug 11, 2007
    #6
  7. Kevin Childers

    S.Lewis Guest

    "Notan" <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Joan F (MI) wrote:
    >> When I retired from the government in January 1998 they were just moving
    >> from DOS to Windows.

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > The US Government living in the dark?
    >
    > Please, say it isn't so!
    >
    > --
    > Notan



    "It ain't so."

    Why do you hate freedom?

    -Stew
     
    S.Lewis, Aug 11, 2007
    #7
  8. Corporate IT departments are not installing Vista at this time (which is
    typical of ANY new operating system that has been out less than about a
    year). The CORPORATE sales organizations of ALL of the OEMs (Dell, HP,
    Gateway, even Toshiba) still offer XP. You won't find it at retail,
    however, with the possible sole exception of CompUSA.

    Kevin Childers wrote:
    > Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    > sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers) are
    > really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    > every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    > wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of makes
    > you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales staff,
    > simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary on
    > the current state of VISTA?
    >
    >
     
    Barry Watzman, Aug 11, 2007
    #8
  9. It's worth noting that while Hank's comments are entirely correct, they
    do not reflect on Vista but rather on the nature of ANY new operating
    system. XP was the same way.

    Hank Arnold (MVP) wrote:
    > Kevin Childers wrote:
    >> Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    >> sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his
    >> coworkers) are
    >> really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    >> every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    >> wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of
    >> makes
    >> you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales
    >> staff,
    >> simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative
    >> commentary on
    >> the current state of VISTA?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
    > reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and
    > they have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the
    > business offerings have XP as well as Vista.
    >
    > Like it or not, new OS's will always have problems with legacy hardware
    > and software. For consumers, this can be manageable In a corporate
    > environment, it's no small thing to have to upgrade even one
    > application. In many cases, it's just not possible. What is an
    > acceptable cost to a consumer is not to a corporation. Try multiplying
    > that $40 upgrade cost by 100 or 1,000 or even 10,000.... Add to that the
    > manpower/hardware costs to do the upgrades and it becomes *VERY*
    > expensive *VERY* fast...
    >
    > I support a small Hospice in upstate NY. We have two critical
    > applications that the vendors will not support on Vista.
    >
    > Bottom line is that corporate acceptance of Vista is glacial compared to
    > the consumer market....
    >
     
    Barry Watzman, Aug 11, 2007
    #9
  10. Kevin Childers

    Guest

    On 8 Aug, 11:58, "Kevin Childers" <> wrote:
    > Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    > sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers) are
    > really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    > every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    > wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of makes
    > you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales staff,
    > simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary on
    > the current state of VISTA?



    My company laptop dual boots XP and Windows 2000 - because a lot of
    the industrial software (Loader-monitors for older PLCs, diagnostic
    tools for DC and AC drives) does not yet run on XP. 2000 is still
    more reliable than XP, of course.

    I would not be surprised if a lot of mission-critical software does
    not run under vista, despite the Beta being available to developers
    for half an ice age. They are not stupid. They knew that Vista SP1
    would be radically different from the Beta they were being offered to
    develop with.
     
    , Aug 11, 2007
    #10
  11. Kevin Childers

    S.Lewis Guest

    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:46bd3968$0$20547$...
    > It's worth noting that while Hank's comments are entirely correct, they do
    > not reflect on Vista but rather on the nature of ANY new operating system.
    > XP was the same way.
    >


    <snip>

    I don't remember the distaste for XP as being nearly this pronounced. Yes,
    there were issues. But in context, consumers were pretty accepting of XP as
    most were eager to leave WinMe. Very eager.

    Corporates were either living with NT4 or 5 (Win2K, and some still are) and
    were in no rush to migrate.

    I don't think many people would argue about the stability and improvement of
    WinXP Home over WinMe.

    The excitement for Vista has been underwhelming, imo.


    Stew
     
    S.Lewis, Aug 11, 2007
    #11
  12. Cross posting

    Hello

    I doubt you guys realize this, but you are cross posting on a newsgroup that
    has absolutely no interest in your topic.

    Please delete alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell from your messages.

    Thank you.

    bobwatts


    "Kevin Childers" <> wrote in message
    news:DxRui.332$...
    > Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    > sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers)
    > are
    > really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    > every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    > wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of
    > makes
    > you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales staff,
    > simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary on
    > the current state of VISTA?
    >
    >
     
    Robert E. Watts, Aug 11, 2007
    #12
  13. Absolutely correct....
    --

    Regards,
    Hank Arnold
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Server - Directory Services

    Barry Watzman wrote:
    > It's worth noting that while Hank's comments are entirely correct, they
    > do not reflect on Vista but rather on the nature of ANY new operating
    > system. XP was the same way.
    >
    > Hank Arnold (MVP) wrote:
    >> Kevin Childers wrote:
    >>> Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    >>> sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his
    >>> coworkers) are
    >>> really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    >>> every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    >>> wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort
    >>> of makes
    >>> you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales
    >>> staff,
    >>> simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative
    >>> commentary on
    >>> the current state of VISTA?
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
    >> reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and
    >> they have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the
    >> business offerings have XP as well as Vista.
    >>
    >> Like it or not, new OS's will always have problems with legacy
    >> hardware and software. For consumers, this can be manageable In a
    >> corporate environment, it's no small thing to have to upgrade even one
    >> application. In many cases, it's just not possible. What is an
    >> acceptable cost to a consumer is not to a corporation. Try multiplying
    >> that $40 upgrade cost by 100 or 1,000 or even 10,000.... Add to that
    >> the manpower/hardware costs to do the upgrades and it becomes *VERY*
    >> expensive *VERY* fast...
    >>
    >> I support a small Hospice in upstate NY. We have two critical
    >> applications that the vendors will not support on Vista.
    >>
    >> Bottom line is that corporate acceptance of Vista is glacial compared
    >> to the consumer market....
    >>
     
    Hank Arnold (MVP), Aug 11, 2007
    #13
  14. Barry Watzman <> wrote:

    >Corporate IT departments are not installing Vista at this time (which is
    >typical of ANY new operating system that has been out less than about a
    >year). The CORPORATE sales organizations of ALL of the OEMs (Dell, HP,
    >Gateway, even Toshiba) still offer XP. You won't find it at retail,
    >however, with the possible sole exception of CompUSA.


    Not surprising, and common to a lot of small companies,
    particularly those that work under contract to/with larger
    corporations and/or the US Gummint (see Joan F (MI)'s post above,
    our sponsors at Naval Sea Systems Command didn't standardize on
    Windows and MS Word/Excel/etc, until 1998).

    My personal, and therefore my company's "corporate" stance since
    I was what passed for their "IT" department, was that I'd never
    buy a M$ program until after at least the first Service Pack/*.1
    or *.2 version. Never bought Win 3.1 at all.

    Semi-retired now, my decision on Vista lies in the joint hands of
    God and M$. If God calls me back before M$ discontinues all
    continuing support of XP, I'll never do Vista. If M$ beats God
    to the punch, I'll consider Vista, under duress.

    [My old, now retired boss operates three computers - one my old
    L733 which I put XP on (yes, marginal at 733 MHz, but with a
    memory UG it met my/meets his limited needs), and two of our
    company's old Win98 machines - which run a lot of his favorite
    software that won't run under XP. He hates XP, but uses it for
    new software that won't run under Win 98.]
    --
    OJ III
     
    Ogden Johnson III, Aug 11, 2007
    #14
  15. Tiger Direct offers some laptops with XP.

    Barry Watzman wrote:
    | Corporate IT departments are not installing Vista at this time (which
    | is typical of ANY new operating system that has been out less than
    | about a year). The CORPORATE sales organizations of ALL of the OEMs
    | (Dell, HP, Gateway, even Toshiba) still offer XP. You won't find it
    | at retail, however, with the possible sole exception of CompUSA.
    |
     
    Joan F \(MI\), Aug 11, 2007
    #15
  16. Re: "2000 is still more reliable than XP, of course"

    I would take issue with that. So would lots of other people. XP is the
    best OS MS has ever released.

    wrote:
    > On 8 Aug, 11:58, "Kevin Childers" <> wrote:
    >> Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    >> sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his coworkers) are
    >> really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    >> every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    >> wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of makes
    >> you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales staff,
    >> simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative commentary on
    >> the current state of VISTA?

    >
    >
    > My company laptop dual boots XP and Windows 2000 - because a lot of
    > the industrial software (Loader-monitors for older PLCs, diagnostic
    > tools for DC and AC drives) does not yet run on XP. 2000 is still
    > more reliable than XP, of course.
    >
    > I would not be surprised if a lot of mission-critical software does
    > not run under vista, despite the Beta being available to developers
    > for half an ice age. They are not stupid. They knew that Vista SP1
    > would be radically different from the Beta they were being offered to
    > develop with.
    >
     
    Barry Watzman, Aug 11, 2007
    #16
  17. Only because they are OLD and/or (probably and) refurbished laptops.

    Joan F (MI) wrote:
    > Tiger Direct offers some laptops with XP.
    >
    > Barry Watzman wrote:
    > | Corporate IT departments are not installing Vista at this time (which
    > | is typical of ANY new operating system that has been out less than
    > | about a year). The CORPORATE sales organizations of ALL of the OEMs
    > | (Dell, HP, Gateway, even Toshiba) still offer XP. You won't find it
    > | at retail, however, with the possible sole exception of CompUSA.
    > |
    >
    >
     
    Barry Watzman, Aug 11, 2007
    #17
  18. Kevin Childers

    S.Lewis Guest

    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:46be2e0c$0$16574$...
    > Re: "2000 is still more reliable than XP, of course"
    >
    > I would take issue with that. So would lots of other people. XP is the
    > best OS MS has ever released.
    >


    <snip>

    I completely agree.
     
    S.Lewis, Aug 12, 2007
    #18
  19. Joan F \(MI\), Aug 12, 2007
    #19
  20. Kevin Childers

    Tony Harding Guest

    Hank Arnold (MVP) wrote:
    > Kevin Childers wrote:
    >> Spoke to one of HPs Road Warriors today. Helped him get set-up for some
    >> sales event on the road and what not. He (an reportedly his
    >> coworkers) are really happy with their brand new HP laptops. No surprise there, given
    >> every sales guy loves a new toy, but the when I asked about the OS, it
    >> wasn't VISTA. He said all of their new laptops are using XP. Sort of
    >> makes you wonder. Is it a commentary on the learning curve for the sales
    >> staff, simplicity and compatibility for the IT staff, or a negative
    >> commentary on the current state of VISTA?

    >
    > It's a reflection of the fact that most corporate networks are very
    > reluctant to migrate to Vista at this time. We just got 10 D520's and
    > they have XP. You can see on the Dell web site that many/most of the
    > business offerings have XP as well as Vista.
    >
    > Like it or not, new OS's will always have problems with legacy hardware
    > and software. For consumers, this can be manageable In a corporate
    > environment, it's no small thing to have to upgrade even one
    > application. In many cases, it's just not possible. What is an
    > acceptable cost to a consumer is not to a corporation. Try multiplying
    > that $40 upgrade cost by 100 or 1,000 or even 10,000.... Add to that the
    > manpower/hardware costs to do the upgrades and it becomes *VERY*
    > expensive *VERY* fast...
    >
    > I support a small Hospice in upstate NY. We have two critical
    > applications that the vendors will not support on Vista.
    >
    > Bottom line is that corporate acceptance of Vista is glacial compared to
    > the consumer market....


    Always the way - companies incur an enormous expense upgrading to a new OS.

    While on the topic, does anyone have any stats/SWAGs as to how many
    companies have not upgraded to XP? I'll bet it's not a small percentage.
    When I retired from a NYC money center bank in 2002, they had just
    upgraded workstations PCs from NT3.5 to NT 4.0, if that give you an idea.
     
    Tony Harding, Aug 12, 2007
    #20
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