OT: Microsoft launches its own laptop/tablet

Discussion in 'Apple' started by JF Mezei, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. JF Mezei

    JF Mezei Guest

    Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx

    Ars Technica:
    http://arstechnica.com/information-...-unveils-surface-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/


    Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8. No
    mention of mobile network access.

    But Microsoft admits to the advantage of designing your own hardware to
    match your software, something Apple realised a long time ago.

    So we have MS controlling Nokia for phones and now building its own
    tablets. And it claims its Windows OS will run on all 3. Remains to be
    seen how well MS can have a single os for all 3 platforms.
     
    JF Mezei, Jun 19, 2012
    #1
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  2. JF Mezei

    nospam Guest

    In article <4fdff646$0$1279$c3e8da3$>, JF
    Mezei <> wrote:

    > Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx
    >
    > Ars Technica:
    >
    > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/microsoft-unveils-surfac
    > e-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/
    >
    > Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    > keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8. No
    > mention of mobile network access.


    the keyboard cover is a fantastic idea.

    > But Microsoft admits to the advantage of designing your own hardware to
    > match your software, something Apple realised a long time ago.
    >
    > So we have MS controlling Nokia for phones and now building its own
    > tablets. And it claims its Windows OS will run on all 3. Remains to be
    > seen how well MS can have a single os for all 3 platforms.


    if they can pull it off they have a winner.

    it will be interesting to see what google announces at google i/o next
    week.
     
    nospam, Jun 19, 2012
    #2
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  3. JF Mezei

    Wes Groleau Guest

    On 06-18-2012 23:53, nospam quoted/wrote:
    >> >Microsoft web site:http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx

    >> [snip]

    > the keyboard cover is a fantastic idea.


    The sixth image at the URI above shows another good idea (in my opinion).

    A machine that doesn't prevent a competent user from working on it.


    --
    Wes Groleau

    “Beware the barrenness of a busy life.â€
    — Socrates
     
    Wes Groleau, Jun 19, 2012
    #3
  4. JF Mezei

    Lewis Guest

    In message <4fdff646$0$1279$c3e8da3$>
    JF Mezei <> wrote:
    > Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx


    > Ars Technica:
    > http://arstechnica.com/information-...-unveils-surface-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/



    > Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    > keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8.


    For values of "Standard WIndows 8" that incldue "Cripple-ware Windows 8
    RT Metro only."

    > So we have MS controlling Nokia for phones and now building its own
    > tablets. And it claims its Windows OS will run on all 3. Remains to be
    > seen how well MS can have a single os for all 3 platforms.


    Should go about as well as the rest of there mobile attempts, I expect.



    --
    @mdhughes: One of the few regrets I have about lawnless apartments:
    Shallow graves are so much harder to come by.
    "You never really understand a person until you see things from his
    point of view, until you climb inside of his skin and walk around in
    it."
     
    Lewis, Jun 19, 2012
    #4
  5. In article <4fdff646$0$1279$c3e8da3$>, JF Mezei
    <> wrote:
    >
    > Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    > keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8.


    Ahhh, you mean a "laptop" ... wow, Microsoft really is getting better,
    making a laptop only a decade or so after everyone else. ;o)

    Helpful Harry :eek:)
     
    Helpful Harry, Jun 19, 2012
    #5
  6. JF Mezei

    Michael Eyd Guest

    Am 19.06.2012 05:47, schrieb JF Mezei:
    > Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx
    >
    > Ars Technica:
    > http://arstechnica.com/information-...-unveils-surface-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/
    >
    >
    > Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    > keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8.


    Just one of the two presented devices will run Windows 8 (Pro). The
    other one will run Windows RT, a somewhat limited (crippled?) version of
    Windows 8 running on ARM CPUs. Only Metro desktop, ... And definitively
    NO standard Windows applications will run on Windows RT! So much for
    'running standard Windows 8'...

    And for the Windows 8 (Pro) device: According to what I read here in
    Germany, the price will adjust itself according to the best UltraBooks
    available (or announced?) so far - and they can go well beyond 1000€
    (~$1250).

    So what do we have? An iPad clone, with a keyboard in the cover
    (something that is available for any iPad now for years), but hardly any
    apps. And we have a TouchPC for a premium price - something that failed
    badly on the market already several times... Might work this time though
    (after devices like the iPad prepared the users), but I wouldn't bet on
    it... ;-)

    > No mention of mobile network access.
    >
    > But Microsoft admits to the advantage of designing your own hardware to
    > match your software, something Apple realised a long time ago.
    >
    > So we have MS controlling Nokia for phones and now building its own
    > tablets. And it claims its Windows OS will run on all 3. Remains to be
    > seen how well MS can have a single os for all 3 platforms.


    There is about as much 'Windows' in two of the three platforms as there
    was for years in Windows Mobile, Pocket Windows, ... :-( Especially the
    biggest advantage of the (PC) Windows platform, the vast amount of
    available programs, is lost on both Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 RT.

    There might be some advantages for programmers, as they will feel more
    'at home' when coming from desktop programming, but not (much) more...

    But let's see what MS can pull off with these devices - and whether the
    big PC makers won't feel an unfair attack by MS... ;-)

    Best regards,

    Michael
     
    Michael Eyd, Jun 19, 2012
    #6
  7. JF Mezei

    Paul Sture Guest

    On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:07:54 +0200, Michael Eyd wrote:

    > And for the Windows 8 (Pro) device: According to what I read here in
    > Germany, the price will adjust itself according to the best UltraBooks
    > available (or announced?) so far - and they can go well beyond 1000€
    > (~$1250).


    Let's have a look at the German Apple Store:

    <http://store.apple.com/de/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_air>

    11" MacBook Air, from 1049€

    <http://store.apple.com/de/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro>

    13" MacBook Pro from 1249€

    If the Surface prices are so high, no thanks.



    --
    Paul Sture
     
    Paul Sture, Jun 19, 2012
    #7
  8. JF Mezei

    Paul Sture Guest

    On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:47:16 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:

    > Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx
    >
    > Ars Technica:
    > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/microsoft-unveils-

    surface-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/
    >
    >
    > Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    > keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8. No
    > mention of mobile network access.
    >
    > But Microsoft admits to the advantage of designing your own hardware to
    > match your software, something Apple realised a long time ago.
    >
    > So we have MS controlling Nokia for phones and now building its own
    > tablets. And it claims its Windows OS will run on all 3. Remains to be
    > seen how well MS can have a single os for all 3 platforms.


    The hardware looks nice, but is it vapourware?

    <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/a-first-look-and-
    feel-of-microsofts-first-pc/>

    "Microsoft still isn't ready to let Joe Public get their grubby little
    hands on Surface. At the press event, we were given a number of
    demonstrations, shown a number of non-functional demo units, and given
    scant few seconds to touch real working devices. The Intel Core i5-
    powered Surface for Windows 8 Pro devices were not on display, either;
    only the ARM-powered Surface for Windows RT was available. However, the
    major design points are common between the two."



    --
    Paul Sture
     
    Paul Sture, Jun 19, 2012
    #8
  9. JF Mezei

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In the last episode of <>, Lewis
    <> said:

    >In message <4fdff646$0$1279$c3e8da3$>
    > JF Mezei <> wrote:
    >> Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx

    >
    >> Ars Technica:
    >> http://arstechnica.com/information-...-unveils-surface-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/

    >
    >
    >> Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    >> keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8.

    >
    >For values of "Standard WIndows 8" that incldue "Cripple-ware Windows 8
    >RT Metro only."


    For values of "'Standard Windows 8' that include 'Cripple-ware Windows 8
    'RT Metro only.'" that include "Available running Windows 8 RT for Arm,
    or full Windows 8 on Intel"

    Standard Windows 8 is an option.

    --
    All generalizations are false.
     
    DevilsPGD, Jun 19, 2012
    #9
  10. JF Mezei

    Paul Sture Guest

    On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:45:10 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:

    > On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:47:16 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:
    >
    >> Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx
    >>
    >> Ars Technica:
    >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/microsoft-

    unveils-
    > surface-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/
    >>
    >>
    >> Think of an ipad, with a magic cover, except the cover also has a
    >> keyboard and trackpad on it, and this will run standard Windows 8. No
    >> mention of mobile network access.
    >>
    >> But Microsoft admits to the advantage of designing your own hardware to
    >> match your software, something Apple realised a long time ago.
    >>
    >> So we have MS controlling Nokia for phones and now building its own
    >> tablets. And it claims its Windows OS will run on all 3. Remains to be
    >> seen how well MS can have a single os for all 3 platforms.

    >
    > The hardware looks nice, but is it vapourware?
    >
    > <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/a-first-look-and-
    > feel-of-microsofts-first-pc/>
    >
    > "Microsoft still isn't ready to let Joe Public get their grubby little
    > hands on Surface. At the press event, we were given a number of
    > demonstrations, shown a number of non-functional demo units, and given
    > scant few seconds to touch real working devices. The Intel Core i5-
    > powered Surface for Windows 8 Pro devices were not on display, either;
    > only the ARM-powered Surface for Windows RT was available. However, the
    > major design points are common between the two."


    A few Tweets from John Gruber:

    'Sinofsky: “Now let me talk about availability and pricing.†Translation:
    “We’re not talking about price or availability.â€'

    "Microsoft could sell a lot of those keyboard covers if they made one for
    the iPad."

    "I can sort of understand announcing without a ship date. But I can't
    understand announcing without prices. Why not start taking preorders?"

    "Even Kickstarter projects have to set prices:"

    "No battery life specs for either the ARM or Intel versions? Starting to
    think this is a hoax."


    --
    Paul Sture
     
    Paul Sture, Jun 19, 2012
    #10
  11. JF Mezei

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Paul Sture
    <> wrote:

    > "Microsoft could sell a lot of those keyboard covers if they made one for
    > the iPad."


    they keyboard cover is a seriously cool idea. i'd definitely buy one
    for the ipad and i'm sure someone will make them fairly soon.

    > "I can sort of understand announcing without a ship date. But I can't
    > understand announcing without prices. Why not start taking preorders?"


    because it's vaporware. they had to announce it before google i/o next
    week, where a 'tablet of the highest quality' will be introduced.

    > "No battery life specs for either the ARM or Intel versions? Starting to
    > think this is a hoax."


    that part is worrisome.
     
    nospam, Jun 19, 2012
    #11
  12. JF Mezei

    Davoud Guest

    In article <4fdff646$0$1279$c3e8da3$>, JF
    Mezei <> wrote:

    > Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx
    >
    > Ars Technica:
    >
    > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/microsoft-unveils-surfac
    > e-tablet-powered-by-windows-8/


    I wouldn't presume to judge a product I haven't seen or used. Windows 7
    is very good. If Windows 8 is better, they could have a winner.

    The name, though. I can judge that. It's not a deal breaker, but
    "Surface" is a clumsy and unsexy name for what appears visually to be a
    good imitation of the iPad.

    In re: Mr. Groloeau's comment that the screws on the bottom will allow
    a competent user to disassemble and work on the MS tablet, I wonder
    what percentage of users he has in mind. Off the top of my head I would
    say about .0000000000001% would be competent and about 1/10th of those
    would be silly enough to void the warranty when MS would repair or
    replace a defective tablet under warranty.

    --
    I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
    you will say in your entire life.

    usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
     
    Davoud, Jun 19, 2012
    #12
  13. JF Mezei

    salgud Guest

    On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:36:05 -0400, Wes Groleau wrote:

    > On 06-18-2012 23:53, nospam quoted/wrote:
    >>> >Microsoft web site:http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx
    >>> [snip]

    >> the keyboard cover is a fantastic idea.

    >
    > The sixth image at the URI above shows another good idea (in my opinion).
    >
    > A machine that doesn't prevent a competent user from working on it.


    You think it's a good idea that it has a case? Well, I guess I can't argue
    with you about that...
     
    salgud, Jun 19, 2012
    #13
  14. JF Mezei

    Michael Eyd Guest

    Am 19.06.2012 15:13, schrieb Davoud:
    > In article <4fdff646$0$1279$c3e8da3$>, JF
    > Mezei <> wrote:
    >
    >> Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx

    >
    > In re: Mr. Groloeau's comment that the screws on the bottom will allow
    > a competent user to disassemble and work on the MS tablet, I wonder
    > what percentage of users he has in mind. Off the top of my head I would
    > say about .0000000000001% would be competent and about 1/10th of those
    > would be silly enough to void the warranty when MS would repair or
    > replace a defective tablet under warranty.


    And it's not exactly like the iPad was all glued together. That can be
    opened just as well. And I would almost be willing to take a bet on not
    finding many possibilities for users to do their own
    repairs/enhancements/... in any such device. The constructors really do
    their very best (for all I can say) to leave not even the smallest space
    unused.

    Best regards,

    Michael
     
    Michael Eyd, Jun 19, 2012
    #14
  15. JF Mezei

    Tom Stiller Guest

    In article <jrq6tn$hcv$-ag.de>, Michael Eyd <>
    wrote:

    > Am 19.06.2012 15:13, schrieb Davoud:
    > > In article <4fdff646$0$1279$c3e8da3$>, JF
    > > Mezei <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx

    > >
    > > In re: Mr. Groloeau's comment that the screws on the bottom will allow
    > > a competent user to disassemble and work on the MS tablet, I wonder
    > > what percentage of users he has in mind. Off the top of my head I would
    > > say about .0000000000001% would be competent and about 1/10th of those
    > > would be silly enough to void the warranty when MS would repair or
    > > replace a defective tablet under warranty.

    >
    > And it's not exactly like the iPad was all glued together. That can be
    > opened just as well. And I would almost be willing to take a bet on not
    > finding many possibilities for users to do their own
    > repairs/enhancements/... in any such device. The constructors really do
    > their very best (for all I can say) to leave not even the smallest space
    > unused.



    Has anyone read or heard anything about battery life or price?

    --
    PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf
    of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. -- Ambrose Bierce
     
    Tom Stiller, Jun 19, 2012
    #15
  16. In article <>,
    Tom Stiller <> wrote:

    > Has anyone read or heard anything about battery life or price?


    Price for the ARM version is comparable to competing products, and price
    for the Intel version is comparable to netbooks, or words to that effect.
    No dollar amount was said.

    --
    Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
    People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Jun 19, 2012
    #16
  17. JF Mezei

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Tom
    Stiller <> wrote:

    > Has anyone read or heard anything about battery life or price?


    both of those were suspiciously absent from the announcement.

    the only thing they said about price was it would be competitive with
    similar products. nothing like stating the obvious.
     
    nospam, Jun 19, 2012
    #17
  18. JF Mezei

    Megabyte Guest

    On 19/06/2012 10:39 AM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Tom Stiller <> wrote:
    >
    >> Has anyone read or heard anything about battery life or price?

    >
    > Price for the ARM version is comparable to competing products, and price
    > for the Intel version is comparable to netbooks, or words to that effect.
    > No dollar amount was said.
    >

    I read the price of the Intel version would be comparable to ultrabook
    pricing not netbook pricing. Expect to pay $1,000.
     
    Megabyte, Jun 19, 2012
    #18
  19. JF Mezei

    JF Mezei Guest

    Lewis wrote:

    > For values of "Standard WIndows 8" that incldue "Cripple-ware Windows 8
    > RT Metro only."



    Apple has IOS for mobiles and OS-X for laptops/desktops.

    The "enterprise" tablet will be intel based and supposedly run desktop
    windows and be able to run desktop executables. (or so I read). This
    could be an advantage for MS. On the other hand, it ins't clear how well
    the UI will work since it is likely to be a compromise between keyboard
    and touch screen. (and it isn't good to have to switch between the two)

    With Arm based Windows RT is perhaps a mistake because it should have
    been Windows Mobile, compatible with Microsoft's nokia branded phones in
    terms of apps. Developpers will not be happy having to develop a version
    for nokia phones and one for microsoft tablets.
     
    JF Mezei, Jun 19, 2012
    #19
  20. JF Mezei

    JF Mezei Guest

    nospam wrote:

    > because it's vaporware. they had to announce it before google i/o next
    > week, where a 'tablet of the highest quality' will be introduced.


    Interesting how, the day after, the sobering thoughts come out. Apple
    is generally very good at annoucing products that are nearly ready for
    widespread distribution.

    The fact that MS's products are still vapourware would indicate that MS
    still has bugs/problems and can't start producing them yet. So this is
    clearly to have a "met too" foot in the door ahead of Google.


    If MS will have 3 operating systems (phones, tablets with RT, and
    tables/desktops with real windows), then this is a bad move, especially
    since Nokia has been telling people at conferences about how it was a
    stargegic move to choose windows because it would be a single operating
    system with larger installed base than IOS/OS-X.
     
    JF Mezei, Jun 19, 2012
    #20
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