P4P800-E Deluxe or P4C800-E Deluxe & memory ?

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Barry, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. Barry

    Barry Guest

    Howdy group,

    I'm considering buying either a P4P800-E Deluxe or a P4C800-E Deluxe mobo. In Australia the P4C800 is about $80 to $100 dearer than the P4P800. I'm not really sure just what are the differences between the 2 chipsets. From what I've read the 875P chipset supports ECC memory and has PAT enabled. However, I understand that "PAT" is enabled on the P4P800-E Deluxe. Is this true? If so, are there or what are the advantages buying the P4C800 mobo over the P4P800 mobo?

    I intend to buy a P4 2.8Ghz Northwood core to start with and upgrade early next year to a faster P4 (if I can afford a faster P4 now I'll get one). Although I don't know much about over-clocking I'm going to 'have a go' once I get the PC working.

    With this in mind I would like to know what brand/module memory to buy that works with either of these mobo's. I'm looking at buying 512mb CAS2 class (2 * 256mb). For example, one of my local computer stores has - 256mb Kingston HYPER-X PC-3500 433MHZ, CAS-2, 184-PIN DIMM DDR SDRAM (KHX3500-256) on "special" at the moment. Would this ram work OK? They also have some GEIL PC-3500 LL ram on special. Or is CAS2 memory an "over kill"? If so, what would you recommend?

    Thanks very muchly
    Barry...
     
    Barry, Apr 7, 2004
    #1
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  2. Barry

    Paul Guest

    In article <c5119v$2n00i2$-berlin.de>, "Barry"
    <> wrote:

    > Howdy group,
    >
    > I'm considering buying either a P4P800-E Deluxe or a P4C800-E Deluxe =
    > mobo. In Australia the P4C800 is about $80 to $100 dearer than the =
    > P4P800. I'm not really sure just what are the differences between the 2 =
    > chipsets. From what I've read the 875P chipset supports ECC memory and =
    > has PAT enabled. However, I understand that "PAT" is enabled on the =
    > P4P800-E Deluxe. Is this true? If so, are there or what are the =
    > advantages buying the P4C800 mobo over the P4P800 mobo?
    >
    > I intend to buy a P4 2.8Ghz Northwood core to start with and upgrade =
    > early next year to a faster P4 (if I can afford a faster P4 now I'll get =
    > one). Although I don't know much about over-clocking I'm going to 'have =
    > a go' once I get the PC working.
    >
    > With this in mind I would like to know what brand/module memory to buy =
    > that works with either of these mobo's. I'm looking at buying 512mb =
    > CAS2 class (2 * 256mb). For example, one of my local computer stores =
    > has - 256mb Kingston HYPER-X PC-3500 433MHZ, CAS-2, 184-PIN DIMM DDR =
    > SDRAM (KHX3500-256) on "special" at the moment. Would this ram work OK? =
    > They also have some GEIL PC-3500 LL ram on special. Or is CAS2 memory =
    > an "over kill"? If so, what would you recommend?
    >
    > Thanks very muchly
    > Barry...


    The P4C800-E has the 875 Northbridge, and it has a private
    bus interface called CSA, which connects directly to a Gigabit
    Ethernet chip. Unless you have a Gigabit switch to connect
    the computer to, or another computer with a Gigabit interface,
    this is overkill. The idea is, the CSA has so much bandwidth
    available, that the bus is not a bottleneck to the Ethernet
    traffic. The Ethernet chip on the P4P800 will connect to
    the PCI bus, like most other computers in the world, and the
    small amount of Ethernet traffic normally used won't
    affect the PCI bus significantly.

    The P4C800 will have the advantage in the overclocking department.
    There is a poll being conducted on the forums of Abxzone.com
    about the P4P800 having video artifacts at high overclocks, so
    go over there and read up on what frequencies are required to
    cause problems. There are no problems with the P4P800 at
    normal frequencies.

    You can also search for your ram choices over there, and see
    if anyone is using them.

    Be careful with the Hyper-X. I just checked the web page, and
    the old stuff KHX3500 is 2-3-3-7, while the newer stuff
    KHX3500A is 2.5-3-3-7. It is possible the newer stuff is
    using Hynix chips, and apparently the Hynix chips cannot do
    CAS2 when used with an 875/865 based board. This is not a big
    deal, as the diff between CAS2 and CAS2.5 is not that big.
    (Corsair had to change their datasheets recently, from CAS2
    to CAS2.5, so this is an industry wide issue with the Hynix
    chips. But the Hynix chips were designed to go at high clock
    speeds, and expect to find the Hynix chips used everywhere,
    now that Winbond BH5 is all gone.)

    http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3500_256.pdf
    http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3500A_256.pdf

    The two PC3500 products I looked at on the geilusa.com
    site are 2.5-3-3-6, and I would guess they are Hynix
    chips. (How else can you explain the 2.5 ?)

    If you want this kind of memory, I would buy the KHX3500
    if it is really CAS2. If you are as cheap as I am, then
    CAS3 works quite nicely too :)

    This Intel memory guide has some info that applies to
    both the 875 and 865, and may help explain a bit about
    the operating modes of the chipsets.

    ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/applnots/25273001.pdf

    For your overclocking experiments, you'll be using the
    5:4 CPU:memory ratio, and according to www.cpudatabase.com,
    should be able to reach 3.6GHz with a 2.8-C. That would
    take FSB clock = 257MHz instead of the normal 200MHz,
    memory setting "DDR333" (which is actually DDR320) to get
    the 5:4 ratio, and memory actually running at
    (257/200)*320 = 411MHz and well within the 433MHz rating of
    the PC3500.

    As far as I know, PAT only works at exactly stock frequencies.
    When you overclock, PAT is disabled. There is a dangerous
    BIOS hack for making it work at all frequencies, which
    involves loading the BIOS boot block from another motherboard,
    along with returning the normal BIOS to the rest of the flash
    chip. This is a pretty extreme hack, for the little benefit
    you would get running normal everyday applications.

    Don't bother with "Turbo". Stick with adjusting the memory
    settings manually, to stay safe. Oh, and check your Vdimm,
    as high performance memory needs at least 2.6 or 2.7V to
    work well.

    Have fun,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Apr 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. Barry

    Barry Guest

    Paul,

    Thankyou for your detailed reply.

    Cheers
    Barry...
     
    Barry, Apr 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Barry

    Pluvious Guest

    On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:26:19 +1000, "Barry" <> wrote:

    ||Paul,
    ||
    ||Thankyou for your detailed reply.
    ||
    ||Cheers
    ||Barry...
    ||

    And thank you as well. I am currently considering overclocking my 2.6C
    on my Asus P4C800-E Deluxe and have no clue how to make it stable. I
    had it up to 2.9 manually but it was crashing.. :(

    Pluvious
     
    Pluvious, Apr 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Barry

    Barry Guest

    Re: P4P800-E Deluxe or P4C800-E Deluxe & memory ? (Follow-up)

    "Paul" <> wrote...
    >
    > The P4C800-E has the 875 Northbridge, and it has a private
    > bus interface called CSA, which connects directly to a Gigabit
    > Ethernet chip. Unless you have a Gigabit switch to connect
    > the computer to, or another computer with a Gigabit interface,
    > this is overkill. The idea is, the CSA has so much bandwidth
    > available, that the bus is not a bottleneck to the Ethernet
    > traffic. The Ethernet chip on the P4P800 will connect to
    > the PCI bus, like most other computers in the world, and the
    > small amount of Ethernet traffic normally used won't
    > affect the PCI bus significantly.
    >
    > The P4C800 will have the advantage in the overclocking department.
    > There is a poll being conducted on the forums of Abxzone.com
    > about the P4P800 having video artifacts at high overclocks, so
    > go over there and read up on what frequencies are required to
    > cause problems. There are no problems with the P4P800 at
    > normal frequencies.
    >
    > You can also search for your ram choices over there, and see
    > if anyone is using them.
    >
    > Be careful with the Hyper-X. I just checked the web page, and
    > the old stuff KHX3500 is 2-3-3-7, while the newer stuff
    > KHX3500A is 2.5-3-3-7. It is possible the newer stuff is
    > using Hynix chips, and apparently the Hynix chips cannot do
    > CAS2 when used with an 875/865 based board. This is not a big
    > deal, as the diff between CAS2 and CAS2.5 is not that big.
    > (Corsair had to change their datasheets recently, from CAS2
    > to CAS2.5, so this is an industry wide issue with the Hynix
    > chips. But the Hynix chips were designed to go at high clock
    > speeds, and expect to find the Hynix chips used everywhere,
    > now that Winbond BH5 is all gone.)
    >
    > http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3500_256.pdf
    > http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3500A_256.pdf
    >
    > The two PC3500 products I looked at on the geilusa.com
    > site are 2.5-3-3-6, and I would guess they are Hynix
    > chips. (How else can you explain the 2.5 ?)
    >
    > If you want this kind of memory, I would buy the KHX3500
    > if it is really CAS2. If you are as cheap as I am, then
    > CAS3 works quite nicely too :)
    >
    > This Intel memory guide has some info that applies to
    > both the 875 and 865, and may help explain a bit about
    > the operating modes of the chipsets.
    >
    > ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/applnots/25273001.pdf
    >
    > For your overclocking experiments, you'll be using the
    > 5:4 CPU:memory ratio, and according to www.cpudatabase.com,
    > should be able to reach 3.6GHz with a 2.8-C. That would
    > take FSB clock = 257MHz instead of the normal 200MHz,
    > memory setting "DDR333" (which is actually DDR320) to get
    > the 5:4 ratio, and memory actually running at
    > (257/200)*320 = 411MHz and well within the 433MHz rating of
    > the PC3500.
    >
    > As far as I know, PAT only works at exactly stock frequencies.
    > When you overclock, PAT is disabled. There is a dangerous
    > BIOS hack for making it work at all frequencies, which
    > involves loading the BIOS boot block from another motherboard,
    > along with returning the normal BIOS to the rest of the flash
    > chip. This is a pretty extreme hack, for the little benefit
    > you would get running normal everyday applications.
    >
    > Don't bother with "Turbo". Stick with adjusting the memory
    > settings manually, to stay safe. Oh, and check your Vdimm,
    > as high performance memory needs at least 2.6 or 2.7V to
    > work well.
    >
    > Have fun,
    > Paul


    Paul,

    Once again thanks very muchly for your earlier reply.

    I spent several hours at Abxzone.com reading several very looooong threads on PC memory. To be honest, I don't understand a lot of what was written but it DID help somewhat.

    I replying again since I'm about to buy the mobo, ram, graphics card, etc. etc. and I just want to know that I'm getting the right CPU/RAM combo for my needs.

    To voice the bleeding obvious, I've got 2 choices : To OC or not to OC.

    From what I read, if I want to OC then my best choice would be to buy a 2.4C P4 and the fastest memory I can afford. Particularly PC3700 or PC4000.

    On the other hand, if I DON'T want to OC then buy the fastest P4 I can afford and "normal" PC3200 ram.

    I also gathered that LL ram is far more important for a AMD XP than it is for a Intel P4.

    Given my lack of knowledge of "all things OC'ing", I'll take the NO OC'ing option. I know it may not be difficult but I simply can't afford the chance that I might "burn" the CPU/ram/mobo by making a silly little mistake.

    In your reply above you suggest that CAS3 ram is just fine. I presume your are referring to Kingston Valueram or similar.

    However, after reading the threads at Abxzone.com I'm still not clear whether buying say, CORSAIR PC3200LL, will give me any better performance at standard FSB/etc. and even if it does, how much?

    Thanks very muchly
    Barry...
     
    Barry, Apr 10, 2004
    #5
  6. Barry

    Paul Guest

    Re: P4P800-E Deluxe or P4C800-E Deluxe & memory ? (Follow-up)

    In article <c57qgr$2p6h2c$-berlin.de>, "Barry"
    <> wrote:

    > "Paul" <> wrote...
    > >=20
    > > The P4C800-E has the 875 Northbridge, and it has a private
    > > bus interface called CSA, which connects directly to a Gigabit
    > > Ethernet chip. Unless you have a Gigabit switch to connect
    > > the computer to, or another computer with a Gigabit interface,
    > > this is overkill. The idea is, the CSA has so much bandwidth
    > > available, that the bus is not a bottleneck to the Ethernet
    > > traffic. The Ethernet chip on the P4P800 will connect to
    > > the PCI bus, like most other computers in the world, and the
    > > small amount of Ethernet traffic normally used won't
    > > affect the PCI bus significantly.
    > >=20
    > > The P4C800 will have the advantage in the overclocking department.
    > > There is a poll being conducted on the forums of Abxzone.com
    > > about the P4P800 having video artifacts at high overclocks, so
    > > go over there and read up on what frequencies are required to
    > > cause problems. There are no problems with the P4P800 at
    > > normal frequencies.
    > >=20
    > > You can also search for your ram choices over there, and see
    > > if anyone is using them.=20
    > >=20
    > > Be careful with the Hyper-X. I just checked the web page, and
    > > the old stuff KHX3500 is 2-3-3-7, while the newer stuff
    > > KHX3500A is 2.5-3-3-7. It is possible the newer stuff is
    > > using Hynix chips, and apparently the Hynix chips cannot do
    > > CAS2 when used with an 875/865 based board. This is not a big
    > > deal, as the diff between CAS2 and CAS2.5 is not that big.
    > > (Corsair had to change their datasheets recently, from CAS2
    > > to CAS2.5, so this is an industry wide issue with the Hynix
    > > chips. But the Hynix chips were designed to go at high clock
    > > speeds, and expect to find the Hynix chips used everywhere,=20
    > > now that Winbond BH5 is all gone.)
    > >=20
    > > http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3500_256.pdf
    > > http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KHX3500A_256.pdf
    > >=20
    > > The two PC3500 products I looked at on the geilusa.com
    > > site are 2.5-3-3-6, and I would guess they are Hynix
    > > chips. (How else can you explain the 2.5 ?)
    > >=20
    > > If you want this kind of memory, I would buy the KHX3500
    > > if it is really CAS2. If you are as cheap as I am, then
    > > CAS3 works quite nicely too :)=20
    > >=20
    > > This Intel memory guide has some info that applies to
    > > both the 875 and 865, and may help explain a bit about
    > > the operating modes of the chipsets.
    > >=20
    > > ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/applnots/25273001.pdf
    > >=20
    > > For your overclocking experiments, you'll be using the
    > > 5:4 CPU:memory ratio, and according to www.cpudatabase.com,
    > > should be able to reach 3.6GHz with a 2.8-C. That would
    > > take FSB clock =3D 257MHz instead of the normal 200MHz,
    > > memory setting "DDR333" (which is actually DDR320) to get
    > > the 5:4 ratio, and memory actually running at=20
    > > (257/200)*320 =3D 411MHz and well within the 433MHz rating of
    > > the PC3500.
    > >=20
    > > As far as I know, PAT only works at exactly stock frequencies.
    > > When you overclock, PAT is disabled. There is a dangerous=20
    > > BIOS hack for making it work at all frequencies, which=20
    > > involves loading the BIOS boot block from another motherboard,=20
    > > along with returning the normal BIOS to the rest of the flash
    > > chip. This is a pretty extreme hack, for the little benefit
    > > you would get running normal everyday applications.
    > >=20
    > > Don't bother with "Turbo". Stick with adjusting the memory
    > > settings manually, to stay safe. Oh, and check your Vdimm,
    > > as high performance memory needs at least 2.6 or 2.7V to
    > > work well.
    > >=20
    > > Have fun,
    > > Paul

    >
    > Paul,
    >
    > Once again thanks very muchly for your earlier reply.
    >
    > I spent several hours at Abxzone.com reading several very looooong =
    > threads on PC memory. To be honest, I don't understand a lot of what =
    > was written but it DID help somewhat.
    >
    > I replying again since I'm about to buy the mobo, ram, graphics card, =
    > etc. etc. and I just want to know that I'm getting the right CPU/RAM =
    > combo for my needs.
    >
    > To voice the bleeding obvious, I've got 2 choices : To OC or not to OC.
    >
    > From what I read, if I want to OC then my best choice would be to buy a =
    > 2.4C P4 and the fastest memory I can afford. Particularly PC3700 or =
    > PC4000.
    >
    > On the other hand, if I DON'T want to OC then buy the fastest P4 I can =
    > afford and "normal" PC3200 ram.
    >
    > I also gathered that LL ram is far more important for a AMD XP than it =
    > is for a Intel P4.
    >
    > Given my lack of knowledge of "all things OC'ing", I'll take the NO =
    > OC'ing option. I know it may not be difficult but I simply can't afford =
    > the chance that I might "burn" the CPU/ram/mobo by making a silly little =
    > mistake.
    >
    > In your reply above you suggest that CAS3 ram is just fine. I presume =
    > your are referring to Kingston Valueram or similar.
    >
    > However, after reading the threads at Abxzone.com I'm still not clear =
    > whether buying say, CORSAIR PC3200LL, will give me any better =
    > performance at standard FSB/etc. and even if it does, how much?
    >
    > Thanks very muchly
    > Barry...


    First off, if you want the last percentage point of performance,
    I'm not the guy to ask. There are plenty of people on Abxzone
    who sweat the details, and if you read enough of their tests,
    you might get some good ideas as to what to do. (The only thing
    I don't agree with, is running 2.5V memory at 3.3V. That is
    like putting sugar in your gas tank...)

    For a general overview, there is this article. While many people
    will bemoan the fact that the article is published on Tom's, it
    is better than nothing, and faster than reading 10,000 posts
    on Abxzone.com.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040119/index.html

    The thing about some of your overclocking choices, is they
    cost money, and only work well if you use them for their
    intended purpose. Take the "PC4000" memory, for example.
    It excels at high memory clocks, and you are balancing the
    25% improvement, going from DDR400 to DDR500, versus the
    fact that the memory runs at 3-4-4-8 versus 2-3-2-6 or the
    like. If you bought the PC4000, and didn't overclock, the
    solution would be inferior to buying PC3200 memory (as
    PC4000 doesn't magically become LL memory when the clock
    runs slower). So, if you are "going for it", then you have
    to stick with it.

    If you buy PC3200 memory, you can run CPU:FSB at 1:1 for
    stock frequency operation (FSB800 CPU and DDR400 dual
    channel memory). Nothing is stressed. If you select the
    5:4 ratio, you can do some core overclocking and extract
    more performance from the processor than normal. The
    FSB runs at FSB1000 when CPU clock is 250MHz and the
    memory is still running at DDR400. So the combo of PC3200
    LL memory and 875/865 available ratios, gives you some
    options. (Also keep in mind, you have to select the
    processor based on your ram strategy - a 2.8*1.25
    overclock = 3.5GHz, which looks to be achievable
    on the cpudatabase web site.)

    If you had asked me this question maybe 4 months ago,
    I'd have been telling you that PC4000 was the best
    performance wise. But there are some dissenting voices
    over on Abxzone right now, who are getting _almost_
    as good results from using LL memory. This has left
    me, to say the least, very confused :)

    I guess I would say, if you are happy to have a fast class
    of machine, without splashing too much cash around, then
    some ordinary CAS3 is good enough. Buy the PC3200LL if
    you want some options, being aware that as a result,
    you end up with a processor that runs at either 2.8GHz
    or 3.5GHz. (Same ideas apply if you choose some middle
    ground, like the PC3500. That would leave room for a
    slightly higher top end, and might require better than
    just air cooling for the processor.) Buy the PC4000 if
    you plan to leave the processor at 3.5GHz all the time,
    and have applications that are very memory intensive,
    like Photoshop.

    Keep in mind, that the improvement in memory bandwidth,
    isn't reflected to the same degree in overall performance.
    A 10% improvement in memory bandwidth might buy you 3%
    shorter execution time in what you are doing. Exceptions
    are Photoshop or other applications with a heavy emphasis
    on memory - if you spend most of your time doing one
    application only, then pick the solution that is best
    for that one app.

    As for "burning the mobo", the P4 has thermal throttling,
    so isn't likely to disappear in a blaze of glory. My rule
    of thumb is, you can overclock to at least the highest
    frequency that the family runs at - the processor dice
    are all the same, and are binned for operation at 2.8, 3.0,
    3.2, 3.4 etc. So running at 3.5 isn't a big deal.

    If you have to raise the voltage of a part significantly,
    in order to have a stable overclock, that does imply an
    extra stress. You do occasionally read of people who have
    to back off on their overclock, because the processor
    gets "tired", and I take this to be a speed fault caused
    by electromigration. This is why I don't recommend just
    randomly increasing the voltage. On the DDR DIMMs, 2.6
    to 2.8 is probably not too hard on the DIMM, but higher
    than that is asking for trouble, as some portions of the
    circuitry in the DRAM is regulated by an internal voltage
    regulator, and the extra voltage is just turned into
    unnecessary heat (heat which in fact, slows the memory
    down!). I think using a little common sense, you aren't
    going to affect the 3 year practical life of the mobo
    before upgrading again.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Apr 10, 2004
    #6
  7. Barry

    NT Canuck Guest

    "Pluvious" <> wrote in message news:...

    > And thank you as well. I am currently considering overclocking my 2.6C
    > on my Asus P4C800-E Deluxe and have no clue how to make it stable. I
    > had it up to 2.9 manually but it was crashing.. :(


    The board/ram should be fine at a 7-10% overclock.

    in BIOS
    set everything to "default"
    then
    set pci/agp ratio to fixed 33/66 (or it changes w/clock speed)
    set ram timing manually to 4 3 3 7 (slowest, you can change later)

    turn off or disable onboard sound (if using a pci sound card)
    turn off or disable onboard network card (if using seperate nic)

    In general...a 10% overclock on a stable system won't need
    any more than above, weak spot is usually either ram quality
    or excess heat in case or on video card.

    now up the cpu speed by a few numbers at a time..
    eg...203...204...210. and try to be patient.
    Even if you achieve 210..there is no guarantee the ram will
    be stable under heavy cpu load inside the operating system.

    then try again.

    if necessary you may be able to up the ram voltage to 1.6v
    (check manuf, and for posts using that specific ram type)
    as some are a bit on the low side. be careful with any voltage
    changes on any parts unless you really are experienced.

    --
    'Seek and ye shall find'
    NT Canuck
     
    NT Canuck, Apr 11, 2004
    #7
  8. Barry

    Barry Guest

    Re: P4P800-E Deluxe or P4C800-E Deluxe & memory ? (Follow-up)

    Paul,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I brought a P4C800-E Deluxe mobo and a GeXcube 9600Xt Extreme video card today.

    On Tuesday when the PC shops open after Easter I'm going to buy a P4 3.0C, Corsair TWINX1024-3200LL memory, 2*120gb Hitachi 7K250 SATA HDD's, GlobalWin SAF450W PSU and a Plextor CD burner. I'll buy a Plextor SATA DVD burner in a few months. On Wednesday I'll start saving for my next PC upgrade in X years time!!!

    The upgraded PC will "fly" compared to my existing PC running a PII 266Mhz, 128mb 66Mhz memory and 12gb of HD space.

    Thanks muchly for your help
    Barry...
     
    Barry, Apr 11, 2004
    #8
  9. Barry

    Pluvious Guest

    On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:36:03 GMT, "NT Canuck" <>
    wrote:

    ||"Pluvious" <> wrote in message news:...
    ||
    ||> And thank you as well. I am currently considering overclocking my 2.6C
    ||> on my Asus P4C800-E Deluxe and have no clue how to make it stable. I
    ||> had it up to 2.9 manually but it was crashing.. :(
    ||
    ||The board/ram should be fine at a 7-10% overclock.
    ||
    ||in BIOS
    ||set everything to "default"
    ||then
    ||set pci/agp ratio to fixed 33/66 (or it changes w/clock speed)
    ||set ram timing manually to 4 3 3 7 (slowest, you can change later)
    ||
    ||turn off or disable onboard sound (if using a pci sound card)
    ||turn off or disable onboard network card (if using seperate nic)
    ||
    ||In general...a 10% overclock on a stable system won't need
    ||any more than above, weak spot is usually either ram quality
    ||or excess heat in case or on video card.
    ||
    ||now up the cpu speed by a few numbers at a time..
    ||eg...203...204...210. and try to be patient.
    ||Even if you achieve 210..there is no guarantee the ram will
    ||be stable under heavy cpu load inside the operating system.
    ||
    ||then try again.
    ||
    ||if necessary you may be able to up the ram voltage to 1.6v
    || (check manuf, and for posts using that specific ram type)
    ||as some are a bit on the low side. be careful with any voltage
    ||changes on any parts unless you really are experienced.


    Thanks for the help. I had gotten a pretty stable 2.9 with setting the
    PCI/AGP ration to fixed 33/66, and fixed memory timings... got the FSB
    up to about 220. I have 1 gig of Corsair XMS DDR PC-3200
    (TWINX1024R-3200C2PT) Cas Latency: 2-3-3-6 is stock.


    I think I crashed in UT2k because of I didn't mess with the memory
    timings. Nor did I mess with the voltages. I understand UT games are
    cpu intensive and that might have been why FarCry had no problems at
    2.9, but the old Unreal Tournament 2003 choked.

    Pluvious
     
    Pluvious, Apr 11, 2004
    #9
  10. Barry

    NT Canuck Guest

    "Pluvious" <> wrote in message news:...

    > Thanks for the help. I had gotten a pretty stable 2.9 with setting the
    > PCI/AGP ration to fixed 33/66, and fixed memory timings... got the FSB
    > up to about 220. I have 1 gig of Corsair XMS DDR PC-3200
    > (TWINX1024R-3200C2PT) Cas Latency: 2-3-3-6 is stock.


    ok, the corsair xms is nice ram...likely do 2.5 3 3 7 at 220 (10% o/c).

    iirc that ram should goto about 250 but may need to set
    ram speed from 400 speed to 320 speed (4/5 of bus speed).
    remember it's ddr (double data rate so a 400 speed is 200mhz)
    Mostly I might try togo as high as you can without any voltage
    changes and the cpu/board heat/temp are fairly close to original.
    I suspect 12-17% overclock should be stable w/o much effort.

    > I think I crashed in UT2k because of I didn't mess with the memory
    > timings. Nor did I mess with the voltages. I understand UT games are
    > cpu intensive and that might have been why FarCry had no problems at
    > 2.9, but the old Unreal Tournament 2003 choked.


    hmm, yes ut2k and ut2003 are ram/cpu intensive,
    I don't know/have the Far Cry...how is it?

    --
    'Seek and ye shall find'
    NT Canuck
     
    NT Canuck, Apr 11, 2004
    #10
  11. Barry

    Pluvious Guest

    On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:31:35 GMT, "NT Canuck" <>
    wrote:

    ||"Pluvious" <> wrote in message news:...
    ||
    ||> Thanks for the help. I had gotten a pretty stable 2.9 with setting the
    ||> PCI/AGP ration to fixed 33/66, and fixed memory timings... got the FSB
    ||> up to about 220. I have 1 gig of Corsair XMS DDR PC-3200
    ||> (TWINX1024R-3200C2PT) Cas Latency: 2-3-3-6 is stock.
    ||
    ||ok, the corsair xms is nice ram...likely do 2.5 3 3 7 at 220 (10% o/c).
    ||

    Yeah.. I bought good ram thinking I would O/C.. but its kinda baffling
    me. I used the mobo's auto overclock feature at 5% and up to 15% with
    no problems..but that was such a little boost it didn't seem worth it.
    I would like to get at least 3.0 out of my 2.6c. I know there is some
    setting that will achieve that.. just don't know exactly what it is.
    Not something you just poke around with.. I have to actually LEARN
    what I'm doing before I mess around I think. :) Maybe I'll plug in
    those timings you listed there and see what happens.

    ||iirc that ram should goto about 250 but may need to set
    ||ram speed from 400 speed to 320 speed (4/5 of bus speed).
    ||remember it's ddr (double data rate so a 400 speed is 200mhz)
    ||Mostly I might try togo as high as you can without any voltage
    ||changes and the cpu/board heat/temp are fairly close to original.
    ||I suspect 12-17% overclock should be stable w/o much effort.
    ||

    I'm using stock cooling and have an Antec case with 4 fans. It's very
    cool in my case so I can probably get away with the stock heatsink.

    ||> I think I crashed in UT2k because of I didn't mess with the memory
    ||> timings. Nor did I mess with the voltages. I understand UT games are
    ||> cpu intensive and that might have been why FarCry had no problems at
    ||> 2.9, but the old Unreal Tournament 2003 choked.
    ||
    ||hmm, yes ut2k and ut2003 are ram/cpu intensive,
    || I don't know/have the Far Cry...how is it?

    FarCry is amazing with the right rig. Little choppy on the last few
    levels but overall its a must have. (only $40 list..definately check
    it out)

    http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/Pluvious/FarCry0008.jpg
    http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/Pluvious/FarCry0012.jpg

    Pluvious

    Asus P4C800-E Deluxe
    Intel P4 2.6C 800 FSB
    1 Gig Corsair XMS TWINX1024R-3200C2PT
    ATI 9700 PRO w/ Direct X 9.0b / Omega drivers o/c'd 378/330.75
    XP Home
    etc....
     
    Pluvious, Apr 12, 2004
    #11
  12. Barry

    NT Canuck Guest

    "Pluvious" <> wrote in message news:...

    > Yeah.. I bought good ram thinking I would O/C.. but its kinda
    > baffling me. I used the mobo's auto overclock feature at 5% and
    > up to 15% with no problems..but that was such a little boost it
    > didn't seem worth it.


    Try hunting for aida32 diagnostices (free) and doing the memory
    speed tests before/after any changes to see what you did.
    http://www.aida32.hu/aida32.php

    I am using 2 infineon and 2 kingston ddr400 (2.5 3 3 7)
    all 256mb in dual-channel on p4p800 (2.6c htt) ati 9500pro.
    I did perk up to 3.0ghz for awhile but video card won't run
    any quicker and I suspect the 9700pro while faster will still
    be the bottleneck for anything over 3.0ghz cpu speeds.

    So I just run at normal clocks and set the performance mode
    to "normal" and have the MAM (PAT clone) set on...this
    gives a stable boost and no problems. (cpu 22c board 31c).
    Your 875 chipset should be a bit quicker than my 865pe.
    aida 32 with bunch items loaded on desktop
    mem read 4658
    mem write 1575

    > I would like to get at least 3.0 out of my 2.6c. I know there is some
    > setting that will achieve that.. just don't know exactly what it is.
    > Not something you just poke around with.. I have to actually LEARN
    > what I'm doing before I mess around I think. :) Maybe I'll plug in
    > those timings you listed there and see what happens.


    Those timing should be (I think) ok for a 10% boost in speed
    but likely just optimizing your system at stock speeds about same.

    > FarCry is amazing with the right rig. Little choppy on the last few
    > levels but overall its a must have. (only $40 list..definately check
    > it out)


    Is there CD formats as I think it comes on DVD.
    (heh...I'm getting behind but do have dual CDRW's)

    some ram/timing notes review..
    http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040119/index.html

    --
    'Seek and ye shall find'
    NT Canuck
     
    NT Canuck, Apr 12, 2004
    #12
  13. Barry

    Pluvious Guest

    On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:29:14 GMT, "NT Canuck" <>
    wrote:

    ||"Pluvious" <> wrote in message news:...
    ||
    ||> Yeah.. I bought good ram thinking I would O/C.. but its kinda
    ||> baffling me. I used the mobo's auto overclock feature at 5% and
    ||> up to 15% with no problems..but that was such a little boost it
    ||> didn't seem worth it.
    ||
    ||Try hunting for aida32 diagnostices (free) and doing the memory
    ||speed tests before/after any changes to see what you did.
    ||http://www.aida32.hu/aida32.php
    ||

    Wow..that's a cool little program thanks for the link. This will
    really help.

    ||I am using 2 infineon and 2 kingston ddr400 (2.5 3 3 7)
    ||all 256mb in dual-channel on p4p800 (2.6c htt) ati 9500pro.
    ||I did perk up to 3.0ghz for awhile but video card won't run
    ||any quicker and I suspect the 9700pro while faster will still
    ||be the bottleneck for anything over 3.0ghz cpu speeds.
    ||

    Yeah.. I'm going to consider getting the new ATI card thats going to
    show up in the coming months. The 9700 pro is a killer card..but its
    starting to show it's age already. :(

    ||So I just run at normal clocks and set the performance mode
    ||to "normal" and have the MAM (PAT clone) set on...this
    ||gives a stable boost and no problems. (cpu 22c board 31c).
    ||Your 875 chipset should be a bit quicker than my 865pe.
    ||aida 32 with bunch items loaded on desktop
    ||mem read 4658
    ||mem write 1575
    ||

    mem read 4782
    mem write 1562


    Thanks again..

    Pluvious
     
    Pluvious, Apr 13, 2004
    #13
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