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question about old real-time computer graphics used for militaryflight simulators

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by parallax-scroll, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. Here we have a demo of a flight simulator system from Evans &
    Sutherland circa 1981. The CT-5.

    It was used in various flight simulators for helicopters and F-16:

    http://design.osu.edu/carlson/history/tree/images/e-s-military.jpg
    http://i28.tinypic.com/2r5asus.jpg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e7_GiCc-HA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06mbwNg1Vw4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W-qb_jHRhA



    For those that understand the history of real-time computer graphics,
    which companies like Evans & Sutherland and General Electric
    Aerospace (later rolled into Martin Marietta / Lockheed Martin)
    invented in the late 1960s & 1970s and refined in the 1980s and early
    1990s, was this one, the CT-5, the most advanced, highest-end, in
    terms of the complexity and quality of the graphics it could generate,
    for its time ?

    These graphics, being real-time interactive @ 60fps, not some pre-
    rendered CGI movie, seemed more advanced than anything else of the
    time (early 1980s).
    was it?

    I know, or believe, that texture-mapping was invented in the 1980s, I
    think by General Electric Aerospace / Martin Marietta, however at the
    time, 1981, only flat-shading combined with gouraud-shading was
    available. It looks amazing in the video and screenshots I've
    provided.

    Also, looking at some of the flat-shaded polygon arcade games from
    NAMCO and SEGA of the early 1990s, such as Virtua Racing, Virtua
    Fighter, Cyber Sled,
    Air Combat, generated by their System 21 and MODEL 1 arcade boards
    respectively, which were state of the art for video games, far ahead
    of what personal computers and game consoles could do, at the time,
    and even sharper than the later PlayStation1 graphics of 1994 /
    1995... The older 1981 E&S simulator seems to have, yet even better
    graphics capabilities than the flat-shaded polygon arcade games of
    10-12 years later.

    Does anyone have any specific knowledge of Evans & Sutherland CT-5
    simulator system, the processing hardware behind it ?
    parallax-scroll, Aug 2, 2009
    #1
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  2. parallax-scroll

    Augustus Guest

    Re: question about old real-time computer graphics used for military flight simulators

    "parallax-scroll" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Here we have a demo of a flight simulator system from Evans &
    > Sutherland circa 1981. The CT-5.
    >
    > It was used in various flight simulators for helicopters and F-16:


    Did you dig a bit deeper on that first link?
    http://design.osu.edu/carlson/history/lesson13.html
    Augustus, Aug 2, 2009
    #2
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  3. parallax-scroll

    Bruce Morgen Guest

    Re: question about old real-time computer graphics used for military flight simulators

    The PDP-11 was made by Digital
    Equipment Corp. (DEC) -- along
    with the later VAX systems, it
    was considered a minicomputer,
    i.e. smaller and less powerful
    than a mainframe but much more
    powerful than the desktop
    microcomputers of its time and
    capable of multitasking.


    "William" <> wrote:

    >I am putting on my 'way back' hat and remembering things that I was told
    >about 18 years ago, so forgive me if I am a little loose with the details.
    >A fellow technician who worked with me had a wife who worked for E&S. Her
    >job was to be 'checked out' on the simulator by the engineers who built it.
    >She was responsible to oversee the disassembly of the equipment and crating
    >for shipping. She, along with the equipment, would be shipped to the
    >destination and oversee the assembly of the simulator on site. Once it was
    >certified as specified, she came back home for the next assignment. (She
    >was a beautiful woman, smart, and a wonderful personality - fun to be
    >around. Which is why she fell into such fun jobs all the time. She and my
    >friend spent a year in Germany assembling a simulator for Mercedes for one
    >assignment.)
    >
    >She told me that they used PDP-11's. Lots of them. One for running the
    >program, one for polygon creation, fills, textures, control input. Then the
    >bunch where sent to an aggregator, where everything was mixed together.
    >Form their they were sent to processors for video out, sound out, hydraulics
    >out, instrumentation out. A few racks, power supplies, and lots of cables.
    >
    >The PDP-11's (Manufacturer?) were considered the mainstay computer for many
    >businesses at the time. They were middle ground processing units, between
    >high-end IBM's and low-end desk-tops. (IBM's - weird.) Allot of Industrial
    >applications used PDP-11's. Their weren't that many choices to be had back
    >then.
    >
    >William
    >
    >
    >"First of One" <root@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> The page doesn't actually say much about the graphics hardware (System
    >> architecture? Fill rate? How much video RAM?) We know from the Youtube
    >> video it drew polygons. There is a good chance the CT5 graphics hardware
    >> had many similarities with subsequent SGI machines. Hell, technology-wise,
    >> the first 3dfx Voodoo cards didn't really introduce anything
    >> unprecedented. 3dfx timed the product correctly: perpetual die shrinks
    >> made two texture units and 4 MB of RAM affordable to the common user. To
    >> put things in perspective, the CT5 simulator sold for $20 million in 1980s
    >> dollars. The F-16C/D aircraft sold for $19 million in 1998 dollars.
    >> Military funding allowed for many things that were otherwise commercially
    >> infeasible.
    >>
    >> --
    >> "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    >> It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    >> bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
    >>
    >>
    >> "Augustus" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Ffidm.37358$Db2.35888@edtnps83...
    >>>
    >>> "parallax-scroll" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> Here we have a demo of a flight simulator system from Evans &
    >>>> Sutherland circa 1981. The CT-5.
    >>>>
    >>>> It was used in various flight simulators for helicopters and F-16:
    >>>
    >>> Did you dig a bit deeper on that first link?
    >>> http://design.osu.edu/carlson/history/lesson13.html
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    Bruce Morgen, Aug 2, 2009
    #3
  4. parallax-scroll

    GMAN Guest

    Re: question about old real-time computer graphics used for military flight simulators

    In article <>, "William" <> wrote:
    >
    >"William" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I am putting on my 'way back' hat and remembering things that I was told
    >>about 18 years ago, so forgive me if I am a little loose with the details.

    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >
    >That 18 years ago should have been 28 years ago. God - I am feeling old
    >right now. I think I will go lay down and watch a movie on one of my VHS
    >tapes. (Copied from a 3/4" master).
    >
    >Has anyone here ever tried to copy a VHS tape recorded in SLP to a DVD? The
    >noise doesn't compress so well. The movies are long in digital memory
    >requirements. I've been trying to find newer copies in DVD, and am having
    >trouble.
    >
    >A copy of a copy of a copy.
    >
    >
    >William
    >
    >

    Garbage in, Garbage out.

    I usually run my VHS videos thru my Hotronix AR71 TBC
    ( http://www.hotronics.com/ar71.html )

    Then, if i need post processing i run the stablized video thru a Sima SCC-2
    unit.
    GMAN, Aug 3, 2009
    #4
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