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Re: Olimex-iMX233-OLinuXino-Maxi Linux SBC

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by Frank Buss, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. Frank Buss

    Frank Buss Guest

    Don McKenzie wrote:
    >
    > 16-June-2012
    > SINGLE BOARD LINUX COMPUTER with i.MX233 ARM926J @454Mhz
    >
    > Now available:
    > http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olimex-imx233-olinuxino-maxi.html
    > http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olinuxino.html


    Why should someone buy this?

    Raspberry Pi:

    - 256 MB RAM
    - HDMI output
    - 700 MHz CPU clock
    - integrated GPU
    - $25

    OLINUXINO:

    - 64 MB RAM
    - no HDMI
    - 454 MHz CPU clock
    - no GPU (just some basic acceleration, like alpha blending)
    - $68.47

    --
    Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
    electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
     
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  2. hamilton

    hamilton Guest

    On 6/16/2012 3:03 AM, Frank Buss wrote:
    > Don McKenzie wrote:
    >>
    >> 16-June-2012
    >> SINGLE BOARD LINUX COMPUTER with i.MX233 ARM926J @454Mhz

    >
    > Why should someone buy this?
    >
    > Raspberry Pi:


    When can someone buy this ??

    >
    > - 256 MB RAM
    > - HDMI output
    > - 700 MHz CPU clock
    > - integrated GPU
    > - $25
    >


    Price means nothing if you can not buy it !!



    Still waiting.

    hamilton
     
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  3. Frank Buss

    Frank Buss Guest

  4. W dniu 2012-06-16 11:03, Frank Buss pisze:
    > Don McKenzie wrote:
    >>
    >> 16-June-2012
    >> SINGLE BOARD LINUX COMPUTER with i.MX233 ARM926J @454Mhz
    >>
    >> Now available:
    >> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olimex-imx233-olinuxino-maxi.html
    >> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olinuxino.html

    >
    > Why should someone buy this?


    Although Raspberry Pi and OLinuXino are similar projects, there are different goals:
    https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/blob/master/README

    BTW. We have Olimex-iMX233-OLinuXino-Maxi in stock since 11 June ;)

    Regards
    Krzysztof

    --
    KRISTECH
    www.kristech.eu
     
  5. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    Frank Buss <> wrote:

    >Don McKenzie wrote:
    >>
    >> 16-June-2012
    >> SINGLE BOARD LINUX COMPUTER with i.MX233 ARM926J @454Mhz
    >>
    >> Now available:
    >> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olimex-imx233-olinuxino-maxi.html
    >> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olinuxino.html

    >
    >Why should someone buy this?
    >
    >Raspberry Pi:
    >
    >- 256 MB RAM
    >- HDMI output
    >- 700 MHz CPU clock
    >- integrated GPU
    >- $25


    Its still a toy!

    >OLINUXINO:
    >
    >- 64 MB RAM
    >- no HDMI
    >- 454 MHz CPU clock
    >- no GPU (just some basic acceleration, like alpha blending)
    >- $68.47


    This is something you could mount in a case. The specs ain't great but
    it will run a buildroot/busybox based Linux system just fine.

    --
    Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
    indicates you are not using the right tools...
    nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
    --------------------------------------------------------------
     
  6. Frank Buss

    Frank Buss Guest

    Nico Coesel wrote:
    > Frank Buss <> wrote:
    >
    >> Don McKenzie wrote:
    >>>
    >>> 16-June-2012
    >>> SINGLE BOARD LINUX COMPUTER with i.MX233 ARM926J @454Mhz
    >>>
    >>> Now available:
    >>> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olimex-imx233-olinuxino-maxi.html
    >>> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olinuxino.html

    >>
    >> Why should someone buy this?
    >>
    >> Raspberry Pi:
    >>
    >> - 256 MB RAM
    >> - HDMI output
    >> - 700 MHz CPU clock
    >> - integrated GPU
    >> - $25

    >
    > Its still a toy!


    It is a full computer with ethernet, USB, advanced video capabilites
    etc. The drivers and the Linux kernel might be not as stable at the
    moment, but it's definitely more than a toy.

    >> OLINUXINO:
    >>
    >> - 64 MB RAM
    >> - no HDMI
    >> - 454 MHz CPU clock
    >> - no GPU (just some basic acceleration, like alpha blending)
    >> - $68.47

    >
    > This is something you could mount in a case.


    It is not as easy as with mounting holes or slots, but that's just a
    matter of the right case:

    http://www.adafruit.com/products/859

    > The specs ain't great but
    > it will run a buildroot/busybox based Linux system just fine.


    But why limiting yourself to busybox, if you can have a full featured
    Linux system for a lower price? It is so much easier to just do an
    "apt-get install foobar" and then just writing some Python or bash code
    to use foobar, compared to trying to compile a program with all the
    required libraries on a small busybox based platform.

    But the advantage of the Olinuxino is that all of it, including
    schematics and PCB files, are open source. And the CPU is available to
    buy for your own projects, so you can build a less expensive platform,
    or one with additional hardware for a project. The Broadcom CPU of the
    Raspberry Pi is not available for hobbyists or small companies, and all
    the GPU stuff (and some other details of the CPU) is not available for
    mere mortals.

    --
    Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
    electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
     
  7. Don McKenzie

    Don McKenzie Guest

    On 17-Jun-12 7:46 AM, Frank Buss wrote:
    > Nico Coesel wrote:


    > It is not as easy as with mounting holes or slots, but that's just a
    > matter of the right case:
    >
    > http://www.adafruit.com/products/859


    well that is the nicest case I have seen for the RPi to date.

    Don...


    --
    Don McKenzie

    Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

    The World's Cheapest Computer:
    DuinoMite the PIC32 $30 Basic Computer-MicroController
    http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
    Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
    Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.
     
  8. Frank Buss

    Frank Buss Guest

    Frank Buss wrote:

    > and all
    > the GPU stuff (and some other details of the CPU) is not available for
    > mere mortals.


    Of course, the Raspberry Pi foundation provides an OpenGl ES 2.0
    implementation, which means you can develop your own nice 3D
    application, just hackers like me want to know and play with the
    low-level details of the GPU :)

    --
    Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
    electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
     
  9. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    Frank Buss <> wrote:

    >Nico Coesel wrote:
    >> Frank Buss <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Don McKenzie wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> 16-June-2012
    >>>> SINGLE BOARD LINUX COMPUTER with i.MX233 ARM926J @454Mhz
    >>>>
    >>>> Now available:
    >>>> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olimex-imx233-olinuxino-maxi.html
    >>>> http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olinuxino.html
    >>>
    >>> Why should someone buy this?
    >>>
    >>> Raspberry Pi:
    >>>
    >>> - 256 MB RAM
    >>> - HDMI output
    >>> - 700 MHz CPU clock
    >>> - integrated GPU
    >>> - $25

    >>
    >> Its still a toy!

    >
    >It is a full computer with ethernet, USB, advanced video capabilites
    >etc. The drivers and the Linux kernel might be not as stable at the
    >moment, but it's definitely more than a toy.


    Unstable=useless. No way to fix that because everything is proprietary
    means it is useless for use in anything serious.

    >>> OLINUXINO:
    >>>
    >>> - 64 MB RAM
    >>> - no HDMI
    >>> - 454 MHz CPU clock
    >>> - no GPU (just some basic acceleration, like alpha blending)
    >>> - $68.47

    >>
    >> This is something you could mount in a case.

    >
    >It is not as easy as with mounting holes or slots, but that's just a
    >matter of the right case:
    >
    >http://www.adafruit.com/products/859


    I mean you can mount the Olinuxino in your own case because all the
    connectors are on one side. You'll have a hard time including a Rpi
    into your own product.

    >> The specs ain't great but
    >> it will run a buildroot/busybox based Linux system just fine.

    >
    >But why limiting yourself to busybox, if you can have a full featured
    >Linux system for a lower price? It is so much easier to just do an
    >"apt-get install foobar" and then just writing some Python or bash code
    >to use foobar, compared to trying to compile a program with all the
    >required libraries on a small busybox based platform.


    With 256MB ram you can't run full blown Linux either. I think you can
    also run a regular Linux distro on the Olinuxino but with Busybox its
    just easier to create an image which only contains the software you
    really need. Another advantage is that you'll have the cross
    compilation tools on your system as well.

    Busybox/buildroot has improved greatly over the past few years. There
    are loads of programs already included so selecting the software you
    want is just as easy as using a package selector. If a package is not
    available you can create a new package with just a few lines of text.
    In my experience 9 out of 10 pieces of software compile correct out of
    the box. From the failing software 9 out of 10 only need minor
    tweaking like configure options. All in all it works pretty well.

    --
    Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
    indicates you are not using the right tools...
    nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
    --------------------------------------------------------------
     
  10. hamilton

    hamilton Guest

    On 6/16/2012 11:56 AM, Frank Buss wrote:
    > hamilton wrote:
    >>
    >> Price means nothing if you can not buy it !!

    >
    > Current price on eBay is about EUR 50 :)
    >

    Eh-humm, and shipping to the us ??
     
  11. Frank Buss

    Frank Buss Guest

    Nico Coesel wrote:
    > Frank Buss <> wrote:
    >
    >> It is a full computer with ethernet, USB, advanced video capabilites
    >> etc. The drivers and the Linux kernel might be not as stable at the
    >> moment, but it's definitely more than a toy.

    >
    > Unstable=useless. No way to fix that because everything is proprietary
    > means it is useless for use in anything serious.


    There are some performance problems with SDHC and some USB problems
    (missing key events reported by some users, including me), but it is all
    in the open source part in Linux and some people are already working on
    it to fix it. I don't know of problems in the closed source GPU part.
    Most users who are using e.g. XBMC to use it as a media player are not
    affected anyway.

    > I mean you can mount the Olinuxino in your own case because all the
    > connectors are on one side. You'll have a hard time including a Rpi
    > into your own product.


    I don't know much about mechanics, but it's just a light credit card
    size PCB. Should be possible to mount it with some screws and plastic
    washers or similar things.

    > With 256MB ram you can't run full blown Linux either. I think you can
    > also run a regular Linux distro on the Olinuxino but with Busybox its
    > just easier to create an image which only contains the software you
    > really need. Another advantage is that you'll have the cross
    > compilation tools on your system as well.


    I'm using a cross compiler as well for the Raspberry Pi, but it is
    possible to compile on the device itself, too (but the Linux kernel
    needs some hours instead of minutes, main reason because of the slow SD
    card and the slower CPU). But it is no problem to use Busybox on it,
    too, if you really want. Some people even started to port u-boot for it.

    Creating an image is easy, and can be just copied on the SD-card (with
    'dd' in Linux and similar tools in Windows or Mac).

    256 MB is good enough to start even some X11 desktop. E.g. installing
    MySQL and Apache requires much less memory and then it is a full blown
    Linux for me.

    Years ago I've installed diskless stations with X11 and a Tcl/Tk
    application written by me on computers with just 8 MB. Of course, you
    can't run dozens of applications in parallel like on your desktop PC,
    and maybe big applications like Eclipse might be difficult, but you can
    do a lot with 256 MB.

    > Busybox/buildroot has improved greatly over the past few years. There
    > are loads of programs already included so selecting the software you
    > want is just as easy as using a package selector. If a package is not
    > available you can create a new package with just a few lines of text.
    > In my experience 9 out of 10 pieces of software compile correct out of
    > the box. From the failing software 9 out of 10 only need minor
    > tweaking like configure options. All in all it works pretty well.


    I know buildroot and it is interesting. Not needed for the Raspberry Pi,
    but maybe someone should try to port buildroot for it. This would allow
    even smaller SD cards.

    I've helped developing a buildroot based system with 128 MB NAND flash.
    With the 256 MB RAM you could even use a compressed RAM disk as the root
    filesystem, which would make it really fast and good for embedded
    systems, because no wear of the SD card, if you don't need to save
    something, and fast program loading.

    --
    Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
    electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
     
  12. On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Jun 2012 23:26:10 GMT) it happened
    (Nico Coesel) wrote in <>:

    >With 256MB ram you can't run full blown Linux either.



    Are you out of touch with reality?
    My old server has 385 MB RAM,
    runs:
    apache 2.1
    named
    sendmail
    proftp
    Nvidia latest driver on AGP! [1]
    h264 encoding (ffmpeg, transcode, x264, mjpegtools, etc etc)
    home control
    dnla media server
    newsreader
    webbrowser (opera)
    mediaplayer
    webcam recording
    sshd
    telnetd (when enabled)
    many other programs
    all this at the same time on a Duron 950 MHz

    Sure I normally do not run f*cking Qt on it, but that works too,
    I run old fvwm, a much better window manager from days
    when bytes were scarce.


    [1] and that takes away a lot of RAM when playing video.






    >I think you can
    >also run a regular Linux distro on the Olinuxino but with Busybox its
    >just easier to create an image which only contains the software you
    >really need. Another advantage is that you'll have the cross
    >compilation tools on your system as well.


    Busybox is a pest.
    Many people use it, I have it in Mips cross compiled on the WAP54G (also a Broadcom chip),
    even my Humax cable receiver runs busybox, its a VIRUS!!!

    In these days you realy want a real system.


    >Busybox/buildroot has improved greatly over the past few years. There
    >are loads of programs already included so selecting the software you
    >want is just as easy as using a package selector. If a package is not
    >available you can create a new package with just a few lines of text.
    >In my experience 9 out of 10 pieces of software compile correct out of
    >the box. From the failing software 9 out of 10 only need minor
    >tweaking like configure options. All in all it works pretty well.


    I tried installing Eclipse and Android SDK in Ubuntu.
    I am persistent, but so far no luck with their (debian based) package system.
    Took about 10 minutes to get eclipse up in slackware from a txz,
    but now the Android APK refuses to run in 64 bit Slackware.
    I will have to install an 32 bit version of Linux if I can find an empty partition one day...
    I do not like package systems, compile from source,
    it is the only way,


    >--
    >Failure
     
  13. On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jun 2012 01:51:58 +0200) it happened Frank Buss
    <> wrote in <jrj66v$lmv$>:

    >Years ago I've installed diskless stations with X11 and a Tcl/Tk
    >application written by me on computers with just 8 MB. Of course, you
    >can't run dozens of applications in parallel like on your desktop PC,
    >and maybe big applications like Eclipse might be difficult, but you can
    >do a lot with 256 MB.


    Exactly, 256 MB is enough to fly to mars and back.
     
  14. On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:55:52 +1000) it happened Don McKenzie
    <5V@2.5A> wrote in <>:

    >On 17-Jun-12 7:46 AM, Frank Buss wrote:
    >> Nico Coesel wrote:

    >
    >> It is not as easy as with mounting holes or slots, but that's just a
    >> matter of the right case:
    >>
    >> http://www.adafruit.com/products/859

    >
    >well that is the nicest case I have seen for the RPi to date.
    >
    >Don...


    Yes transparent plastic boxes are nice:
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/LCD_in_transparent_box_img_2033.jpg
    Been using those for years:
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic/gm_pic_in_box_front_img_2411.jpg

    But how to -fix that box- to something?
    Seems merely shifting the problem?
    :)
     
  15. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    Jan Panteltje <> wrote:

    >On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Jun 2012 23:26:10 GMT) it happened
    >(Nico Coesel) wrote in <>:
    >
    >>With 256MB ram you can't run full blown Linux either.

    >
    >
    >Are you out of touch with reality?
    >My old server has 385 MB RAM,


    ....and a hard drive to swap to. Firefox for example wants over 200MB
    of memory for itself. Now imagine running a few other applications.

    >but now the Android APK refuses to run in 64 bit Slackware.
    >I will have to install an 32 bit version of Linux if I can find an empty partition one day...
    >I do not like package systems, compile from source,
    >it is the only way,


    Its too soon for 64 bit. Wait at least 5 more years. Linux has
    excellent support for >4GB memory in 32 bit mode by using a bigmem
    kernel. Even in 32bit mode the modern x86's address bus is 36 or 40
    bits wide.

    --
    Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
    indicates you are not using the right tools...
    nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
    --------------------------------------------------------------
     
  16. On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:53:33 GMT) it happened
    (Nico Coesel) wrote in <>:

    >Jan Panteltje <> wrote:
    >
    >>On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Jun 2012 23:26:10 GMT) it happened
    >>(Nico Coesel) wrote in <>:
    >>
    >>>With 256MB ram you can't run full blown Linux either.

    >>
    >>
    >>Are you out of touch with reality?
    >>My old server has 385 MB RAM,

    >
    >...and a hard drive to swap to. Firefox for example wants over 200MB
    >of memory for itself. Now imagine running a few other applications.


    This is true, but also notice that 'harddisk swapspace' could well be
    solid state FLASH disk.
    No more seek times, and those FLASH, be it USB stick,
    or (micro)SDcard, or whatever, are getting faster and faster.
    I record HD TV no problem an a 10 Euro 16 GB USB stick.
    So that sort of makes the 'swap' more like real memory.

    So adding a bigger SDcard with a swap partition may get rid of the smaller memory problem.



    >>but now the Android APK refuses to run in 64 bit Slackware.
    >>I will have to install an 32 bit version of Linux if I can find an empty partition one day...
    >>I do not like package systems, compile from source,
    >>it is the only way,

    >
    >Its too soon for 64 bit. Wait at least 5 more years. Linux has
    >excellent support for >4GB memory in 32 bit mode by using a bigmem
    >kernel. Even in 32bit mode the modern x86's address bus is 36 or 40
    >bits wide.


    Yes seems 64 bit is not here yet, performance increase over 32 bit is not even that much,
    few percent I have benchmarked on video encoding, and that is where it counts here.


    >--
    >Failure
     
  17. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    Jan Panteltje <> wrote:

    >On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:53:33 GMT) it happened
    >(Nico Coesel) wrote in <>:
    >
    >>Jan Panteltje <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Jun 2012 23:26:10 GMT) it happened
    >>>(Nico Coesel) wrote in <>:
    >>>
    >>>>With 256MB ram you can't run full blown Linux either.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Are you out of touch with reality?
    >>>My old server has 385 MB RAM,

    >>
    >>...and a hard drive to swap to. Firefox for example wants over 200MB
    >>of memory for itself. Now imagine running a few other applications.

    >
    >This is true, but also notice that 'harddisk swapspace' could well be
    >solid state FLASH disk.
    >No more seek times, and those FLASH, be it USB stick,
    >or (micro)SDcard, or whatever, are getting faster and faster.


    That sounds like a way of wearing out the USB stick or SD card real
    fast.

    --
    Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
    indicates you are not using the right tools...
    nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
    --------------------------------------------------------------
     
  18. On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:53:33 GMT, (Nico Coesel) wrote:

    >...and a hard drive to swap to. Firefox for example wants over 200MB
    >of memory for itself. Now imagine running a few other applications.


    You are an idiot who was lied to about a firefox version 5 iterations
    ago.

    I'll bet the "firefox environment" is far smaller on a current version.

    You Luddite dope.
     
  19. On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:53:33 GMT, (Nico Coesel) wrote:

    >
    >Its too soon for 64 bit.


    What an idiot.

    > Wait at least 5 more years. Linux has
    >excellent support for >4GB memory in 32 bit mode by using a bigmem
    >kernel. Even in 32bit mode the modern x86's address bus is 36 or 40
    >bits wide.


    Hahahahaha!
     
  20. On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:01:52 GMT) it happened
    (Nico Coesel) wrote in <>:

    >>This is true, but also notice that 'harddisk swapspace' could well be
    >>solid state FLASH disk.
    >>No more seek times, and those FLASH, be it USB stick,
    >>or (micro)SDcard, or whatever, are getting faster and faster.

    >
    >That sounds like a way of wearing out the USB stick or SD card real
    >fast.


    It is true that that exposes the FLASH to a lot more writes.
    But also modern FLASH has a lot more read write cycles than it used to be,
    and for the memory sizes needed, the price, say cost, is very low.

    I tested this by making a grml distro on a 8GB USB stick that I can
    plug in my old eeepc.
    That eeepc was one of the very first ones, and has only 4GB FLASH,
    and a simpler version of Linux.
    I wanted all the functionality I have in my normal grml server disk
    on the eeepc, so, this is how that USB stick is partitioned:
    panteltje10: ~ # fdisk /dev/sdc

    Command (m for help): p

    Disk /dev/sdc: 8011 MB, 8011120640 bytes
    247 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1021 cylinders, total 15646720 sectors
    Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
    Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
    I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
    Disk identifier: 0x1a2b3c4a <- modified

    Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
    /dev/sdc1 * 63 4194367 2097152+ 6 FAT16
    /dev/sdc2 4194368 5423168 614400+ 82 Linux swap <-------------------------
    /dev/sdc3 5423169 5546049 61440+ 83 Linux
    /dev/sdc4 5546050 15646719 5050335 83 Linux

    I just boot from the BIOS into this disk...
    This leaves the eeepc intact, and maybe in many years I can auction it for 100 x value or more,
    as was one of the first apple computahs last week.
    This little eeepc, that runs Linux, created a completely new market segment,
    scared the sh*t out of MS, gave Jobs some ideas, and is now a very special thing.
    No harddisk, all solid state, LED backlight, runs firefox, wifi.
    So, anyways, grml ( www,grml.org ) runs perfectly using the USB stick with its swap partition.
    600 MB swap is enough for most cases, except when you start to work with ESA pictures.
    The FAT16 partition is needed else the BIOS does not boot.
    The smaller Linux partition sdc3 is ext2 and holds the kernel,
    the bigger partition is reiserfs and holds the rest,
    Am not using this stick a lot (at all), but I will let you know when it no longer works :)
    Then, as I have a real HD image of it somewhere, I just copy the image to an other USB stick.
    Backups, backups, backups.
    Just got minidlna working in 32 bit Ubuntu (using a binary) and watched a movie with it.





    >--
    >Failure
     
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