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Reduce PIII Mobile CPU Speed in DOS?

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by * * Chas, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. * * Chas

    * * Chas Guest

    Is there any way to slow down or throttle back the CPU speed of a Mobile
    PIII with Speed Step in DOS or DOS Mode?

    I just upgraded the CPU in my old IBM T20 from 650 to 850MHz. I also
    upgraded the fan to a later model. It's working fine with Win98SE and XP
    but the fan runs continually in DOS or MS DOS Mode.

    I used a little program called MobileMeter to check the temperature in
    WinXP. The idle temp is 46°C at 20°C (68°F) ambient. The fan doesn't
    kick in until the temp gets to 73°C. It took a SpyBot system scan to get
    the CPU temperature that high.

    The fan puts out a lot of heat in DOS which indicates the CPU is running
    full speed even at idle. I never noticed this with the older PIII 650
    CPU.

    I do regular backups with Ghost running in DOS so I would like to find a
    way to slow down the CPU.

    --
    Chas. (Drop spamski to E-mail me)
    * * Chas, Jul 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. * * Chas

    Andrew Guest

    In comp.sys.laptops * * Chas <> wrote:
    : Is there any way to slow down or throttle back the CPU speed of a Mobile
    : PIII with Speed Step in DOS or DOS Mode?

    : I just upgraded the CPU in my old IBM T20 from 650 to 850MHz. I also
    : upgraded the fan to a later model. It's working fine with Win98SE and XP
    : but the fan runs continually in DOS or MS DOS Mode.

    : I used a little program called MobileMeter to check the temperature in
    : WinXP. The idle temp is 46?C at 20?C (68?F) ambient. The fan doesn't
    : kick in until the temp gets to 73?C. It took a SpyBot system scan to get
    : the CPU temperature that high.

    73C is extraordinary hot. For a P3 850MHZ, 46C at idle seems high,
    too. I have a P4 Prescott desktop running at 2.4GHZ, and this CPU -
    known to run very very hot - idles at 44C and under extreme CPU load
    will hit 60C, which I consider hot, though that is probably OK for
    brief periods. I have the BIOS set in my CPU to throttle the CPU
    above 65C so it will not get hotter than that.

    I suggest that when you installed the new CPU you may have not
    properly installed the fan/heat sync? Did you put some new thermal
    goo on top of the new CPU before seating the heat sync?

    Anyway, if you get that fixed, your CPU will probably just run a lot
    cooler and running full-speed in DOS will probably no longer be an
    issue.

    Andrew
    --
    ----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
    *******************************************************************
    ----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info
    ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
    *******************************************************************
    Andrew, Jul 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. * * Chas

    * * Chas Guest

    "Andrew" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    | In comp.sys.laptops * * Chas <> wrote:
    | : Is there any way to slow down or throttle back the CPU speed of a
    Mobile
    | : PIII with Speed Step in DOS or DOS Mode?
    |
    | : I just upgraded the CPU in my old IBM T20 from 650 to 850MHz. I also
    | : upgraded the fan to a later model. It's working fine with Win98SE
    and XP
    | : but the fan runs continually in DOS or MS DOS Mode.
    |
    | : I used a little program called MobileMeter to check the temperature
    in
    | : WinXP. The idle temp is 46?C at 20?C (68?F) ambient. The fan doesn't
    | : kick in until the temp gets to 73?C. It took a SpyBot system scan to
    get
    | : the CPU temperature that high.
    |
    | 73C is extraordinary hot. For a P3 850MHZ, 46C at idle seems high,
    | too. I have a P4 Prescott desktop running at 2.4GHZ, and this CPU -
    | known to run very very hot - idles at 44C and under extreme CPU load
    | will hit 60C, which I consider hot, though that is probably OK for
    | brief periods. I have the BIOS set in my CPU to throttle the CPU
    | above 65C so it will not get hotter than that.
    |
    | I suggest that when you installed the new CPU you may have not
    | properly installed the fan/heat sync? Did you put some new thermal
    | goo on top of the new CPU before seating the heat sync?
    |
    | Anyway, if you get that fixed, your CPU will probably just run a lot
    | cooler and running full-speed in DOS will probably no longer be an
    | issue.
    |
    | Andrew

    Thanks for the input. I thought that the temps were high too but from
    what I've read the older PIII Ms ran hot. According to IBM and Intel the
    automatic throttle point is 97°C for these CPUs! That's hot!

    I've put together a lot of PCs and changed out lots of CPUs so I was
    very careful installing the CPU and fan, used the right amount of Radio
    Shack silicone goop too. The way this system is built, it's hard to get
    the assembly wrong.

    The newer, faster CPUs run cooler. They use a 9 micron architecture
    which uses a lot less current and produces less heat.
    --
    Chas. (Drop spamski to E-mail me)
    * * Chas, Jul 10, 2005
    #3
  4. * * Chas

    Andrew Guest

    In comp.sys.laptops * * Chas <> wrote:
    : Thanks for the input. I thought that the temps were high too but from
    : what I've read the older PIII Ms ran hot. According to IBM and Intel the
    : automatic throttle point is 97?C for these CPUs! That's hot!

    Yeah, but that's like the drop-dead "must throttle NOW" point. You
    really REALLY do not want your CPU running at 97C! Remember, 100C is
    boiling water!!!

    : I've put together a lot of PCs and changed out lots of CPUs so I was
    : very careful installing the CPU and fan, used the right amount of Radio
    : Shack silicone goop too. The way this system is built, it's hard to get
    : the assembly wrong.

    Well, I too have put together many systems, and when I first put my
    Prescott system together, I had the heat sync put on wrong. My system
    ran about 20C hotter than it did once I fixed the problem! Anyway, it
    just goes to show that even an experienced computer person can make
    simple mistakes. :) So, you might look again to make sure it's on
    correctly.

    : The newer, faster CPUs run cooler. They use a 9 micron architecture
    : which uses a lot less current and produces less heat.

    If you look into the modern CPUs more carefully, you'll find that is
    completely not true. Intel abandoned its plans for a 4GHZ Pentium 4 this
    year because they could not produce a CPU that would run cool enough.
    AMD is having the same problems. Both companies are now moving to
    dual-core CPU technology because they've hit a wall cranking up the
    clock speed even on the latest manufacturing processes. The wall is
    really power consumption. To get more performance, they're being
    forced to go parallel.

    Take a gander at http://www.tomshardware.com to see what I'm talking
    about.

    Intel's low-power Pentium M CPU is actually a modification of the
    Pentium Pro archiecture (on which the Pentium III is based), with some
    Pentium 4 stuff thrown in. Pentium 4 was designed to run at higher
    frequencies, but that causes power problems.

    I don't think an 850MHZ P3 should be running as hot/hotter than my
    Prescott P4 2.4GHZ!!!

    (There's also the chance that the temp sensors are in fact incorrect
    on your system by the way.)

    Andrew
    --
    ----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
    *******************************************************************
    ----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info
    ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
    *******************************************************************
    Andrew, Jul 10, 2005
    #4
  5. * * Chas

    Andrew Guest

    In comp.sys.laptops Andrew <> wrote:
    : I don't think an 850MHZ P3 should be running as hot/hotter than my
    : Prescott P4 2.4GHZ!!!

    As an added thought - have you considered whether you are able to
    reduce the voltage on your motherboard? Perhaps your previous CPU
    wasn't designed to run at the lower voltage? If so, and your
    motherboard allows it, you might be able to lower the voltage and get
    the CPU to use less power and thus run cooler. Laptop motherboards
    are usually not so richly featured, but it's worth a try.

    Andrew
    --
    ----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
    *******************************************************************
    ----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info
    ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
    *******************************************************************
    Andrew, Jul 10, 2005
    #5
  6. Re: Reduce PIII Mobile CPU Speed in DOS? (stop the nonsense!)

    You can adjust the SpeedStep and speed settings in the BIOS. This
    affects DOS, as XP has it's own power settings.
    If you upgraded the CPUin a T20, what you REALLY need to do is fix the
    heat sink.
    This is done in one of two ways:
    Obtain a fan from a T21 or above. It is totally compatible, but the
    stud on the heat sink makes better contact with the CPU and will stop
    overheat problems
    or
    Put a small strip of something heat conductive, like copper or brass,
    between the fan heat sink area and the stud on the CPU, and use a good
    thermal paste like Arctic Silver. The T20 fan has too big of a gap.
    They used a thermal pad which is not adequte for even the heat of a
    700, and it deteriorates over time.
    Fix this and your problem with go away.

    On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:52:16 -0700, "* * Chas" <>
    wrote:

    >Is there any way to slow down or throttle back the CPU speed of a Mobile
    >PIII with Speed Step in DOS or DOS Mode?
    >
    >I just upgraded the CPU in my old IBM T20 from 650 to 850MHz. I also
    >upgraded the fan to a later model. It's working fine with Win98SE and XP
    >but the fan runs continually in DOS or MS DOS Mode.
    >
    >I used a little program called MobileMeter to check the temperature in
    >WinXP. The idle temp is 46°C at 20°C (68°F) ambient. The fan doesn't
    >kick in until the temp gets to 73°C. It took a SpyBot system scan to get
    >the CPU temperature that high.
    >
    >The fan puts out a lot of heat in DOS which indicates the CPU is running
    >full speed even at idle. I never noticed this with the older PIII 650
    >CPU.
    >
    >I do regular backups with Ghost running in DOS so I would like to find a
    >way to slow down the CPU.
    >
    >--
    >Chas. (Drop spamski to E-mail me)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Bruce Markowitz, Jul 11, 2005
    #6
  7. * * Chas

    Gary L. Guest

    on Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:15:26 -0700, "* * Chas" <>
    wrote:

    >Thanks for the input. I thought that the temps were high too but from
    >what I've read the older PIII Ms ran hot. According to IBM and Intel the
    >automatic throttle point is 97°C for these CPUs! That's hot!


    These temperatures are way too high. I would be suspicious of the
    monitoring software reporting these values. Something is wrong
    somewhere.

    >I've put together a lot of PCs and changed out lots of CPUs so I was
    >very careful installing the CPU and fan, used the right amount of Radio
    >Shack silicone goop too. The way this system is built, it's hard to get
    >the assembly wrong.


    Silicone is the wrong stuff to use. You should use thermal compound
    made specifically for this purpose; e.g., Arctic Silver.

    >The newer, faster CPUs run cooler. They use a 9 micron architecture
    >which uses a lot less current and produces less heat.


    That's 0.09 microns, or 90 nanometers. But the newest CPUs are clocked
    much higher, so they actually generate more heat. To make matters
    worse, the heat is concentrated in a smaller area. Newer ThinkPads
    (such as my T42) use larger heat sinks and fans to deal with the added
    heat, as compared to my old T21.
    Gary L., Jul 11, 2005
    #7
  8. * * Chas

    * * Chas Guest

    Re: Reduce PIII Mobile CPU Speed in DOS? (stop the nonsense!)

    "Bruce Markowitz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    | You can adjust the SpeedStep and speed settings in the BIOS. This
    | affects DOS, as XP has it's own power settings.
    | If you upgraded the CPUin a T20, what you REALLY need to do is fix the
    | heat sink.
    | This is done in one of two ways:
    | Obtain a fan from a T21 or above. It is totally compatible, but the
    | stud on the heat sink makes better contact with the CPU and will stop
    | overheat problems
    | or
    | Put a small strip of something heat conductive, like copper or brass,
    | between the fan heat sink area and the stud on the CPU, and use a good
    | thermal paste like Arctic Silver. The T20 fan has too big of a gap.
    | They used a thermal pad which is not adequte for even the heat of a
    | 700, and it deteriorates over time.
    | Fix this and your problem with go away.
    |
    | On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:52:16 -0700, "* * Chas" <>
    | wrote:
    |

    Thanks for the suggestions. I set AC Power from Maximum to Auto Slow in
    the BIOS. It fixed the problem of running hot in DOS. I'm making a Ghost
    backup and it's running very cool now.

    It seems to be working OK. What I was looking for was a software
    solution like I'd seen for AMD CPUs number of years ago to slow down the
    faster K2, K3 and early Athlons for use with DOS. I was wondering if
    something existed for Intel CPUs.

    It's not a hardware problem, it's not really even a problem. If it burns
    up, it's no big loss. The mainboard failed last fall (with the stock 650
    CPU) and it'd been sitting around until I decided to tear into it last
    month. I bought this in 2000 when they first came out. The PIII 650
    always ran like a slug until I put in a 7200 RPM Hitachi HDD. It was
    like a 200MHz speed boost over the original HDD.

    I put a little over a $100 in the mainboard, CPU and fan, now it usable
    again.

    BTW, I used a heat sink from a T21/T22. It's spring loaded to make good
    contact with the top of the chip on the CPU. I have a brand new
    mainboard from IBM that's rated as a replacement for T20s and T21s. PIII
    M 850 T21s came with the fan I'm using. We can argue over the merits of
    Arctic Silver Vs Radio Shack's Dow silicone heat sink paste all day
    long. I didn't have any handy but I did have the white goo. I read a
    test that showed plain old tooth paste was the best for heat transfer -
    until the water evaporated - no kidding.

    As I said, I was surprised at how hot the CPU was running then I did
    some research and found that the temperatures were in the normal range
    for this CPU. I researched this project for a long time over the past
    month or so. The system runs fine in XP and Win98SE.

    I just started the T20 and checked the temperature. It was 30°C at idle,
    21.6°C (71°F) ambient temperature. It briefly got up to 80°C after
    running a SpyBot scan, a PowerPoint presentation and Acrobat at the same
    time. after several minutes it cooled back down to 40~°C.

    Chas.
    * * Chas, Jul 11, 2005
    #8
  9. * * Chas

    * * Chas Guest

    Re: Reduce PIII Mobile CPU Speed in DOS - DosIdle

    DOSIDLE is the program that I was looking for.
    * * Chas, Jul 12, 2005
    #9
  10. On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:52:16 -0700, "* * Chas"
    <> wrote:

    >Is there any way to slow down or throttle back the CPU speed of a Mobile
    >PIII with Speed Step in DOS or DOS Mode?
    >
    >I just upgraded the CPU in my old IBM T20 from 650 to 850MHz. I also
    >upgraded the fan to a later model. It's working fine with Win98SE and XP
    >but the fan runs continually in DOS or MS DOS Mode.
    >
    >I used a little program called MobileMeter to check the temperature in
    >WinXP. The idle temp is 46°C at 20°C (68°F) ambient. The fan doesn't
    >kick in until the temp gets to 73°C. It took a SpyBot system scan to get
    >the CPU temperature that high.
    >
    >The fan puts out a lot of heat in DOS which indicates the CPU is running
    >full speed even at idle. I never noticed this with the older PIII 650
    >CPU.
    >
    >I do regular backups with Ghost running in DOS so I would like to find a
    >way to slow down the CPU.


    Setting the CPU to a speed in Win should stick into a DOS boot
    since SpeedStep is actually supported by the BIOS -internal power
    supply.
    H. Dziardziel, Jul 15, 2005
    #10
  11. Re: Reduce PIII Mobile CPU Speed in DOS - DosIdle

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:12:30 -0700, "* * Chas"
    <> wrote:

    >DOSIDLE is the program that I was looking for.
    >


    It doesn't control the SpeedStep function and is only useful when
    the CPU is usually idle in DOS. It also may not even do anything
    at all with a mobile Intel CPU since that's already optimized for
    power at whatever speed it's set to. .
    H. Dziardziel, Jul 15, 2005
    #11
  12. * * Chas

    * * Chas Guest

    Re: Reduce PIII Mobile CPU Speed in DOS - DosIdle

    "H. Dziardziel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    | On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:12:30 -0700, "* * Chas"
    | <> wrote:
    |
    | >DOSIDLE is the program that I was looking for.
    | >
    |
    | It doesn't control the SpeedStep function and is only useful when
    | the CPU is usually idle in DOS. It also may not even do anything
    | at all with a mobile Intel CPU since that's already optimized for
    | power at whatever speed it's set to. .

    If you haven't experienced the condition with a similar TP then please
    check out the issues first.

    I'm running the latest BIOS and embedded controller for my T20.

    This is a dual boot system running Win98SE and WinXP. Win98SE runs on
    top of or parallel with DOS 7.01. When you change certain BIOS
    controlled or accessed settings in 98 it changes the settings in the
    BIOS, for example the Power and SpeedStep settings. Other settings are
    completely OS or BIOS controlled.

    XP appears to override most of these BIOS settings without changing them
    in the BIOS.

    Running DOS from a 6.2 or Win98 boot disk or booting Win98 to a command
    prompt allowed the CPU to run unthrottled at full speed which caused a
    lot of heat. When I ran Ghost the system ran very hot. DOSIDLE cooled
    the system fairly well but reducing the SpeedStep setting in the BIOS to
    Automatic - Slow worked better. I just have to make the BIOS changes
    before and after I run Ghost.

    Chas.
    * * Chas, Jul 16, 2005
    #12
  13. * * Chas

    * * Chas Guest

    "H. Dziardziel" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    | On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:52:16 -0700, "* * Chas"
    | <> wrote:
    |
    | >Is there any way to slow down or throttle back the CPU speed of a
    Mobile
    | >PIII with Speed Step in DOS or DOS Mode?
    | >
    | >I just upgraded the CPU in my old IBM T20 from 650 to 850MHz. I also
    | >upgraded the fan to a later model. It's working fine with Win98SE and
    XP
    | >but the fan runs continually in DOS or MS DOS Mode.
    | >
    | >I used a little program called MobileMeter to check the temperature
    in
    | >WinXP. The idle temp is 46°C at 20°C (68°F) ambient. The fan doesn't
    | >kick in until the temp gets to 73°C. It took a SpyBot system scan to
    get
    | >the CPU temperature that high.
    | >
    | >The fan puts out a lot of heat in DOS which indicates the CPU is
    running
    | >full speed even at idle. I never noticed this with the older PIII 650
    | >CPU.
    | >
    | >I do regular backups with Ghost running in DOS so I would like to
    find a
    | >way to slow down the CPU.
    |
    | Setting the CPU to a speed in Win should stick into a DOS boot
    | since SpeedStep is actually supported by the BIOS -internal power
    | supply.

    Good point, this is true for Win98 but not necessarily so for WinXP. XP
    power settings seem to be independent of the BIOS settings.

    Chas.
    * * Chas, Jul 16, 2005
    #13
  14. Re: Reduce PIII Mobile CPU Speed in DOS - DosIdle

    On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 18:26:47 -0700, "* * Chas"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"H. Dziardziel" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >| On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:12:30 -0700, "* * Chas"
    >| <> wrote:
    >|
    >| >DOSIDLE is the program that I was looking for.
    >| >
    >|
    >| It doesn't control the SpeedStep function and is only useful when
    >| the CPU is usually idle in DOS. It also may not even do anything
    >| at all with a mobile Intel CPU since that's already optimized for
    >| power at whatever speed it's set to. .
    >
    >If you haven't experienced the condition with a similar TP then please
    >check out the issues first.
    >


    Please note the "..may not.." in my post.

    Thanks. The lower CPU voltage with SpeedStep will always be the
    more significant power savings.
    H. Dziardziel, Jul 19, 2005
    #14
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