rookie Mountain Lion questions

Discussion in 'Apple' started by *Hemidactylus*, May 16, 2012.

  1. I have Lion on my Mac Mini. Aside from a compulsive disorder to have the
    most up to date OS, how important would it be to upgrade to Mountain
    Lion? How long could I expect Apple to support Lion?

    How much of a PITA would it be to upgrade to Mountain Lion? Will
    software I already have installed like Firefox and VLC integrate
    seamlessly? Do I go to the bricks and mortar Apple Store to purchase ML
    (oh snap I don't have an internal optical drive but do have an external
    DVD/CD drive I use to install Linux on netbooks)? Could I buy ML from
    the online App Store (or another Apple provided venue) and install it
    without an optical drive as an upgrade to Lion? How long after release
    should I hold off for any unintended new release oopsies to be remedied
    by updates?

    Sorry for the Layer 8 ignorance :)


    --
    *Hemidactylus*
    *Hemidactylus*, May 16, 2012
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. *Hemidactylus*

    nospam Guest

    In article <>,
    *Hemidactylus* <> wrote:

    > I have Lion on my Mac Mini. Aside from a compulsive disorder to have the
    > most up to date OS, how important would it be to upgrade to Mountain
    > Lion?


    if it has features you need, or there's an app that requires mountain
    lion (which at some point there will be), upgrade. otherwise, not much
    point unless you want to.

    > How long could I expect Apple to support Lion?


    historically, apple supports one revision back except in rare
    circumstances, such as flashback where apple released an update for
    leopard. however, starting with mountain lion, updates are going to be
    more frequent, which may affect how far back they go.

    > How much of a PITA would it be to upgrade to Mountain Lion? Will
    > software I already have installed like Firefox and VLC integrate
    > seamlessly?


    it's very easy to update os x and nearly everything will work fine. the
    few apps that don't will be updated (unless they're abandoned).

    > Do I go to the bricks and mortar Apple Store to purchase ML
    > (oh snap I don't have an internal optical drive but do have an external
    > DVD/CD drive I use to install Linux on netbooks)? Could I buy ML from
    > the online App Store (or another Apple provided venue) and install it
    > without an optical drive as an upgrade to Lion? How long after release
    > should I hold off for any unintended new release oopsies to be remedied
    > by updates?


    electronic distribution only. you'll download it from the app store and
    run the installer.

    lion is the first version to do away with dvds, although they do offer
    a usb stick, which goes away with mountain lion.
    nospam, May 17, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On 05/16/2012 07:01 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article<>,
    > *Hemidactylus*<> wrote:
    >
    >> I have Lion on my Mac Mini. Aside from a compulsive disorder to have the
    >> most up to date OS, how important would it be to upgrade to Mountain
    >> Lion?

    >
    > if it has features you need, or there's an app that requires mountain
    > lion (which at some point there will be), upgrade. otherwise, not much
    > point unless you want to.
    >
    >> How long could I expect Apple to support Lion?

    >
    > historically, apple supports one revision back except in rare
    > circumstances, such as flashback where apple released an update for
    > leopard. however, starting with mountain lion, updates are going to be
    > more frequent, which may affect how far back they go.
    >
    >> How much of a PITA would it be to upgrade to Mountain Lion? Will
    >> software I already have installed like Firefox and VLC integrate
    >> seamlessly?

    >
    > it's very easy to update os x and nearly everything will work fine. the
    > few apps that don't will be updated (unless they're abandoned).
    >
    >> Do I go to the bricks and mortar Apple Store to purchase ML
    >> (oh snap I don't have an internal optical drive but do have an external
    >> DVD/CD drive I use to install Linux on netbooks)? Could I buy ML from
    >> the online App Store (or another Apple provided venue) and install it
    >> without an optical drive as an upgrade to Lion? How long after release
    >> should I hold off for any unintended new release oopsies to be remedied
    >> by updates?

    >
    > electronic distribution only. you'll download it from the app store and
    > run the installer.
    >
    > lion is the first version to do away with dvds, although they do offer
    > a usb stick, which goes away with mountain lion.


    Thanks for the heads up. Doesn't seem that it will be too big a deal. I
    wonder how much it will cost.

    --
    *Hemidactylus*
    *Hemidactylus*, May 17, 2012
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    *Hemidactylus* <> wrote:

    > I have Lion on my Mac Mini. Aside from a compulsive disorder to have the
    > most up to date OS, how important would it be to upgrade to Mountain
    > Lion? How long could I expect Apple to support Lion?


    I have that disorder too. I don't expect much to break in the move to
    ML. The big shift was from Snow Leopard to Lion where lots of stuff
    broke or needed to be upgraded. I expect Lion to be supported for a few
    years. There generally seems to be a fairly ordered progression in OS
    version support from Apple.
    The newer OS will work better on newer processors with more RAM. Leopard
    was a notable exception to the ordered progression. Eventually, if
    history is a guide, older processors and older busses just don't cut it
    anymore and fall away.
    I'm expecting ML to be easy peasy for me using a mid 2011 Mini. I'd be a
    little worried with my first Intel Mini if I still had it because of its
    500 megabytes of RAM.

    leo
    Leonard Blaisdell, May 17, 2012
    #4
  5. *Hemidactylus*

    Jim Gibson Guest

    In article <>,
    *Hemidactylus* <> wrote:

    > I have Lion on my Mac Mini. Aside from a compulsive disorder to have the
    > most up to date OS, how important would it be to upgrade to Mountain
    > Lion? How long could I expect Apple to support Lion?
    >
    > How much of a PITA would it be to upgrade to Mountain Lion? Will
    > software I already have installed like Firefox and VLC integrate
    > seamlessly? Do I go to the bricks and mortar Apple Store to purchase ML
    > (oh snap I don't have an internal optical drive but do have an external
    > DVD/CD drive I use to install Linux on netbooks)? Could I buy ML from
    > the online App Store (or another Apple provided venue) and install it
    > without an optical drive as an upgrade to Lion? How long after release
    > should I hold off for any unintended new release oopsies to be remedied
    > by updates?
    >
    > Sorry for the Layer 8 ignorance :)


    Mountain Lion will not be available on DVD. It will only be available as
    a download from the App store. Most of your existing software should
    work as is (no guarantees, of course).
    Jim Gibson, May 17, 2012
    #5
  6. *Hemidactylus*

    David Empson Guest

    *Hemidactylus* <> wrote:

    > On 05/16/2012 07:01 PM, nospam wrote:
    > > In article<>,
    > > *Hemidactylus*<> wrote:
    > >
    > >> I have Lion on my Mac Mini. Aside from a compulsive disorder to have the
    > >> most up to date OS, how important would it be to upgrade to Mountain
    > >> Lion?

    > >
    > > if it has features you need, or there's an app that requires mountain
    > > lion (which at some point there will be), upgrade. otherwise, not much
    > > point unless you want to.
    > >
    > >> How long could I expect Apple to support Lion?

    > >
    > > historically, apple supports one revision back except in rare
    > > circumstances, such as flashback where apple released an update for
    > > leopard. however, starting with mountain lion, updates are going to be
    > > more frequent, which may affect how far back they go.


    Here is a summary of the time frame for the last few versions of Mac OS
    X:

    10.3 (Panther):

    Oct 2003 introduced
    Apr 2005 superseded, last minor version update
    Jan 2006 last Safari update
    Feb 2007 last Java update
    Nov 2007 last Security update
    Jun 2008 last QuickTime update
    Jul 2008 last iTunes release which supports 10.3

    10.4 (Tiger):

    Apr 2005 introduced
    Oct 2007 superseded
    Nov 2007 last minor version update (delayed due to bug fixes)
    Jun 2009 last Java update
    Oct 2009 last Security update
    Jul 2010 last iTunes release which supports 10.4
    Nov 2010 last Safari update

    10.5 (Leopard):

    Oct 2007 introduced
    Aug 2009 superseded, last minor version update
    Jun 2011 last Java and full Security updates
    Jul 2011 last Safari and QuickTime updates
    Aug 2011 updated Migration assistant for Lion compatibility
    May 2012 late Intel-only targetted security updates
    Still supported by iTunes

    10.6 (Snow Leopard):

    Aug 2009 introduced
    Jul 2011 superseded
    (Don't know any of the cutoffs yet)

    10.7 (Lion):

    Jul 2011 introduced
    (Don't know the Mountain Lion release date or any of the cutoffs yet)

    Unless Apple changes their secrecy policies and starts announcing future
    plans for software life cycles, we can only tell whether an OS version
    is still supported by seeing which updates get released and which ones
    don't.

    Getting into the speculation realm:

    Based on the timelines of 10.3, 10.4 and 10.5, about four years of full
    security updates is the usual pattern, which happens to coincide with
    the release timing of the second subsequent version of Mac OS X. (The
    gap between 10.4 and 10.5 was significantly longer than between any
    other two versions, so it got supported for longer.)

    If Apple sticks with "security updates for the current and previous OS"
    then Snow Leopard would only be getting security updates until about
    July or August 2012, which is about three years after it was introduced,
    and Lion would only be getting security updates until about July 2013,
    two years after it was introduced.

    According to net usage stats, Snow Leopard is still being used by
    roughly the same number of Macs as Lion, so I think it would be
    premature for Apple to stop issuing Snow Leopard security updates as
    soon as Mountain Lion is released. If they stuck with the timelines for
    earlier systems, Snow Leopard should be getting security updates for
    about another year (until about August 2013), but it may be somewhat
    less than that.

    For Lion, there are some models which will be unable to upgrade to
    Mountain Lion, and to give a fair run to those computers stuck on Lion,
    Apple should maintain a minimum three year window for Lion security
    updates, possibly longer if Lion is still relatively common by mid 2014.

    If they stuck with a four year window, then by 2015 Apple would need to
    be supplying security updates for four OS versions. Three versions seems
    more likely.

    If you think of it from the point of view of how far a particular Mac
    model can upgrade and then be supported with security updates, the worst
    case in recent years was the PowerMac G5 sold until August 2006. It only
    got about five years of potential OS upgrades and security updates (June
    2011 was the last full security update for Leopard).

    For models limited to Snow Leopard, the worst case is a Mac Mini bought
    just before the new models were introduced in August 2007. Five years of
    OS upgrades and security updates for that model would be August 2012.
    Given the relatively high usage of Snow Leopard at this point, I'd hope
    that model would get several more months, but probably not a full six
    years of potential security updates.

    A minimum of five years should apply for models limited to Lion. We
    don't know exactly which models Mountain Lion will not be supporting,
    but it would be fair to assume it is dropping support for some models.
    The most obvious victims would be the late 2006 models which are limited
    to 3 GB of RAM and some of which have the seriously limited Intel GMA950
    graphics controller. The last such model was the mid 2007 Mac Mini,
    which was sold until March 2009.

    Five years after that would mean Lion gets security updates until at
    least March 2014. That suggests a cutoff about July 2014 would not be
    unreasonable, i.e. Lion would get about three years of security updates.

    If the support cutoff was similar for later Mac models, then with annual
    OS releases, Apple would need to provide ongoing support for three OS
    versions at a time, perhaps stretching into four versions if the oldest
    supported version was still relatively popular.

    > >> How much of a PITA would it be to upgrade to Mountain Lion? Will
    > >> software I already have installed like Firefox and VLC integrate
    > >> seamlessly?

    > >
    > > it's very easy to update os x and nearly everything will work fine. the
    > > few apps that don't will be updated (unless they're abandoned).


    Snow Leopard to Lion was a tricky upgrade due to Apple dropping Rosetta,
    which meant that Lion cannot run a lot of older Mac OS X applications
    written for the PowerPC processor. There was quite a bit of abandoned
    software, costly upgrades, or a need to run a specific version, which is
    still preventing some people from upgrading to Lion.

    I can't comment on the likelihood of similar issues arising when
    upgrading from Lion to Mountain Lion, other than the general principle
    that if you are running modern applications and they are up to date, you
    should be fine.

    I've made the transition to Lion this week, and dealt with the question
    of old applications by cloning my Snow Leopard system to an external
    drive which I can boot on my current computer as needed (but probably
    won't be able to use on my next one, so I'll need to hang on to an older
    Intel Mac model for a while, or move the Snow Leopard system into a
    virtual machine after pruning it somewhat).

    I went through a similar issue moving from a PowerPC Mac to an Intel Mac
    (running 10.4 at the time), having to leave behind several old
    applications which needed the Classic environment (Mac OS 9). I had been
    agressively upgrading to Mac OS X native versions of applications where
    possible, so I barely needed Classic by then. I still have a couple of
    PowerPC Macs able to boot into Mac OS 9, one of which can run up to Mac
    OS X 10.5.

    With the Lion transition, my main holdout application was Eudora (e-mail
    client), and I've switched to Apple Mail in Lion. I have various other
    old applications I might need to run occasionally, e.g. at some point
    I'll have to convert a bunch of old AppleWorks documents from version 5
    or earlier to version 6, so I can import them into Pages/Numbers.

    > >> Do I go to the bricks and mortar Apple Store to purchase ML
    > >> (oh snap I don't have an internal optical drive but do have an external
    > >> DVD/CD drive I use to install Linux on netbooks)? Could I buy ML from
    > >> the online App Store (or another Apple provided venue) and install it
    > >> without an optical drive as an upgrade to Lion? How long after release
    > >> should I hold off for any unintended new release oopsies to be remedied
    > >> by updates?

    > >
    > > electronic distribution only. you'll download it from the app store and
    > > run the installer.
    > >
    > > lion is the first version to do away with dvds, although they do offer
    > > a usb stick, which goes away with mountain lion.

    >
    > Thanks for the heads up. Doesn't seem that it will be too big a deal. I
    > wonder how much it will cost.


    "Not more than Lion" seems a reasonble assumption. Therefore US$29.99 or
    less.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, May 17, 2012
    #6
  7. *Hemidactylus*

    nospam Guest

    In article <>,
    *Hemidactylus* <> wrote:

    > Thanks for the heads up. Doesn't seem that it will be too big a deal. I
    > wonder how much it will cost.


    it looks like $29 is the new price point.
    nospam, May 17, 2012
    #7
  8. *Hemidactylus*

    Paul Sture Guest

    On Wed, 16 May 2012 19:01:15 -0400, nospam wrote:

    > historically, apple supports one revision back except in rare
    > circumstances, such as flashback where apple released an update for
    > leopard. however, starting with mountain lion, updates are going to be
    > more frequent, which may affect how far back they go.


    A former member of the VMS Engineering team told me recently that at one
    time they tried making releases a yearly event, and it wasn't an easy
    thing to achieve. He is wondering whether Apple might run into similar
    difficulties.

    --
    Paul Sture
    Paul Sture, May 17, 2012
    #8
  9. *Hemidactylus*

    JF Mezei Guest

    Paul Sture wrote:

    > A former member of the VMS Engineering team told me recently that at one
    > time they tried making releases a yearly event, and it wasn't an easy
    > thing to achieve. He is wondering whether Apple might run into similar
    > difficulties.


    But in the case of Apple, a new version every year doesn't imply that it
    is really a new version. They can add bells and whistles and lost of
    cosmetic changes and call it a new version without having to change
    stuff at the kernel level.

    They can still have a najor new version every 2-3 years, with minor
    updates (called "new versions" from a marketing point of view).

    Of course, they'll have to figure out what happens to OS-10 when it has
    gotten to 10.9

    Will they go hexadecimal and call the next one 10.A ?
    JF Mezei, May 17, 2012
    #9
  10. *Hemidactylus*

    nospam Guest

    In article <4fb5433a$0$17612$c3e8da3$>, JF
    Mezei <> wrote:

    > Of course, they'll have to figure out what happens to OS-10 when it has
    > gotten to 10.9
    >
    > Will they go hexadecimal and call the next one 10.A ?


    they had 10.4.11, which suggests they'll call it 10.11.x.
    nospam, May 17, 2012
    #10
  11. *Hemidactylus*

    Paul Sture Guest

    On Thu, 17 May 2012 14:28:08 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:

    > Paul Sture wrote:
    >
    >> A former member of the VMS Engineering team told me recently that at
    >> one time they tried making releases a yearly event, and it wasn't an
    >> easy thing to achieve. He is wondering whether Apple might run into
    >> similar difficulties.

    >
    > But in the case of Apple, a new version every year doesn't imply that it
    > is really a new version. They can add bells and whistles and lost of
    > cosmetic changes and call it a new version without having to change
    > stuff at the kernel level.
    >
    > They can still have a najor new version every 2-3 years, with minor
    > updates (called "new versions" from a marketing point of view).
    >
    > Of course, they'll have to figure out what happens to OS-10 when it has
    > gotten to 10.9
    >
    > Will they go hexadecimal and call the next one 10.A ?


    As nospam write, there was 10.4.11 (which IIRC broke a few things).

    But they are running out of cats. Maybe they'll call it something else?

    OS XI?

    In my German speaking environment, despite what Apple says*, I've never
    heard OS X pronounced any other way than Oh Ess Ix, never OS Ten or even
    OS zehn.

    * try this in Terminal and listen :)

    say os x



    --
    Paul Sture
    Paul Sture, May 17, 2012
    #11
  12. *Hemidactylus*

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2012-05-17 16:20 , Paul Sture wrote:
    > On Thu, 17 May 2012 14:28:08 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:
    >
    >> Paul Sture wrote:
    >>
    >>> A former member of the VMS Engineering team told me recently that at
    >>> one time they tried making releases a yearly event, and it wasn't an
    >>> easy thing to achieve. He is wondering whether Apple might run into
    >>> similar difficulties.

    >>
    >> But in the case of Apple, a new version every year doesn't imply that it
    >> is really a new version. They can add bells and whistles and lost of
    >> cosmetic changes and call it a new version without having to change
    >> stuff at the kernel level.
    >>
    >> They can still have a najor new version every 2-3 years, with minor
    >> updates (called "new versions" from a marketing point of view).
    >>
    >> Of course, they'll have to figure out what happens to OS-10 when it has
    >> gotten to 10.9
    >>
    >> Will they go hexadecimal and call the next one 10.A ?

    >
    > As nospam write, there was 10.4.11 (which IIRC broke a few things).
    >
    > But they are running out of cats. Maybe they'll call it something else?
    >
    > OS XI?
    >
    > In my German speaking environment, despite what Apple says*, I've never
    > heard OS X pronounced any other way than Oh Ess Ix, never OS Ten or even
    > OS zehn.
    >
    > * try this in Terminal and listen :)
    >
    > say os x


    I've always said "OS Ex" and have to catch myself to say ten.

    And Lye-nux.

    (Torvalds says to call it "Linicks" ("Li" as in little not as in lion)).

    Maybe I'll start saying Windows as Wine-dohs just to maintain inconsistency.

    --
    "A person with a new idea is a crank until the idea succeeds."
    -Samuel Clemens.
    Alan Browne, May 17, 2012
    #12
  13. *Hemidactylus*

    JF Mezei Guest

    Paul Sture wrote:

    > * try this in Terminal and listen :)
    >
    > say os x



    os-x -> Oh Ess Ex
    OS X -> Oh Ess Ten

    OS XI -> Oh Ess She (probably Xi but sounds more like she)
    OS XII -> Oh Ess Ex I I
    JF Mezei, May 17, 2012
    #13
  14. *Hemidactylus*

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <>,
    Alan Browne <> wrote:

    > (Torvalds says to call it "Linicks" ("Li" as in little not as in lion)).


    Yeah. Charlie Brown and Linnis.
    --

    .... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
    Warren Oates, May 17, 2012
    #14
  15. In article <4fb56c7c$0$2065$c3e8da3$>,
    JF Mezei <> wrote:

    > Paul Sture wrote:
    >
    > > * try this in Terminal and listen :)
    > >
    > > say os x

    >
    >
    > os-x -> Oh Ess Ex
    > OS X -> Oh Ess Ten
    >
    > OS XI -> Oh Ess She (probably Xi but sounds more like she)
    > OS XII -> Oh Ess Ex I I


    With Applescript, the first is "OS X", and the rest are "OS <number>"

    It will go up to OS 39 (XXXIX)

    But they have to be upper-case characters. "OS Xi" is pronounced "OS she"

    -- Michelle

    --
    Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
    People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.
    Michelle Steiner, May 18, 2012
    #15
  16. In article <>,
    Alan Browne <> wrote:

    > I've always said "OS Ex" and have to catch myself to say ten.


    I can't get myself to do it right.

    >
    > And Lye-nux.
    >
    > (Torvalds says to call it "Linicks" ("Li" as in little not as in lion)).


    It took me a number of years, but I finally got that, probably because I
    heard it spoken by colleagues. It still looks like Lye-nux in my head,
    though.

    --
    Barry Margolin,
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Margolin, May 18, 2012
    #16
  17. In article <>, Paul Sture <>
    wrote:

    > But they are running out of cats. Maybe they'll call it something else?


    See the XKCD cartoon (someone posted a link in another thread). There
    are still several cats available.

    --
    Barry Margolin,
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Margolin, May 18, 2012
    #17
  18. *Hemidactylus*

    JF Mezei Guest

    Barry Margolin wrote:

    > See the XKCD cartoon (someone posted a link in another thread). There
    > are still several cats available.


    I think they should honour "Red Dwarf" and name a version of OS-X "Cat" :)
    JF Mezei, May 18, 2012
    #18
  19. *Hemidactylus*

    Paul Sture Guest

    On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:15:17 -0400, Barry Margolin wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Alan Browne <> wrote:
    >
    >> I've always said "OS Ex" and have to catch myself to say ten.

    >
    > I can't get myself to do it right.


    "OS Ten, Ten point seven" sounds too tautological to me.

    >
    >> And Lye-nux.
    >>
    >> (Torvalds says to call it "Linicks" ("Li" as in little not as in
    >> lion)).

    >
    > It took me a number of years, but I finally got that, probably because I
    > heard it spoken by colleagues. It still looks like Lye-nux in my head,
    > though.


    I've always pronounced it "Linnucks", but it's probably a regional
    thing. I grew up in Northern England, where short vowels are preferred:
    to me the old DEC user group DECUS was always pronounced "DECKUSS", but
    folks from Southern England would pronounce it "DEEKUSS".

    "Multithreading" and "Semi" on the other hand seem to be pronounced as
    "Mult-eye-threading" and "Sem-eye" in the US, but in the UK always have a
    short "i" as in "it".



    --
    Paul Sture
    Paul Sture, May 18, 2012
    #19
  20. *Hemidactylus*

    Salmon Egg Guest

    In article <>,
    Jolly Roger <> wrote:

    > In article <-september.org>,
    > Barry Margolin <> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <>, Paul Sture <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > But they are running out of cats. Maybe they'll call it something else?

    > >
    > > See the XKCD cartoon (someone posted a link in another thread). There
    > > are still several cats available.

    >
    > Every time this silly topic comes up I find myself asking: Who gives a
    > shit, really? I mean it's not like it has any measurable effect in my
    > life.


    I am sure Apple has the smarts to com up with

    BearCat
    Ant Lion
    Cat Fish
    Catamaran
    Tiger Lily

    and many more. Me Worry?

    --

    Sam

    Conservatives are against Darwinism but for natural selection.
    Liberals are for Darwinism but totally against any selection.
    Salmon Egg, May 18, 2012
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Warren Oates

    Mountain Lion

    Warren Oates, Feb 16, 2012, in forum: Apple
    Replies:
    752
    Views:
    5,117
    Jamie Kahn Genet
    Mar 7, 2012
  2. Michelle Steiner
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    540
  3. Fred Moore

    Yes, Mountain Lion is 10.8

    Fred Moore, Feb 17, 2012, in forum: Apple
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    340
    Paul Sture
    Feb 23, 2012
  4. Juan I. Cahis
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    297
    Juan I. Cahis
    Dec 16, 2012
  5. glawrie
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    274
    glawrie
    Mar 1, 2013
Loading...

Share This Page