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what 3Dfx chip was used in Sega's 'Black Belt' prototype console ?

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by Guest, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've always wanted to know what 3Dfx chip was used in Sega's 'Black Belt'
    prototype console, from 1997

    or rather, what *would* have been the *final* 3Dfx chip used in Black Belt,
    in 1998/1999 when the machine was to come out? ....being that early
    prototypes often do not have the final chip but a previous generation chip
    or incompleted next-gen chip....


    * modified custom Banshee (1x PixelFX2, 1x TexelFX2) intergrated on one
    chip

    * modified custom Banshee2 (1x PixelFX2, 2x TexelFX2) all intergrated on
    one chip <--- same as Voodoo3


    Sega and 3Dfx inked a contract, IIRC, in Feb 1997. Sega killed the
    contract in July 1997.

    Banshee for PCs came out, IIRC, in 1998, and Banshee2 / Voodoo3 in 1999.
    I am leaning towards Sega getting some version of the Banshee2 / Voodoo3.
    but it's open for discussion & debate




    keep in mind, that Dreamcast is a seperate matter, since Dreamcast was the
    consumer name for
    Dural / Katana, the winning prototype console which used PowerVR2.
    Guest, Jun 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. Guest

    First of One Guest

    Pretty sure it was a version of the Voodoo3.

    BTW, from what I remember in a press release, 3dfx sued Sega over breach of
    contract and won. The money it got was the only thing that kept 3dfx from
    going into the red that quarter. Gives you an idea of how small 3dfx was
    compared to the industry giants at that time...

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


    <bulldog> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > I've always wanted to know what 3Dfx chip was used in Sega's 'Black Belt'
    > prototype console, from 1997
    >
    > or rather, what *would* have been the *final* 3Dfx chip used in Black
    > Belt, in 1998/1999 when the machine was to come out? ....being that
    > early prototypes often do not have the final chip but a previous
    > generation chip or incompleted next-gen chip....
    >
    >
    > * modified custom Banshee (1x PixelFX2, 1x TexelFX2) intergrated on one
    > chip
    >
    > * modified custom Banshee2 (1x PixelFX2, 2x TexelFX2) all intergrated
    > on one chip <--- same as Voodoo3
    >
    >
    > Sega and 3Dfx inked a contract, IIRC, in Feb 1997. Sega killed the
    > contract in July 1997.
    >
    > Banshee for PCs came out, IIRC, in 1998, and Banshee2 / Voodoo3 in 1999.
    > I am leaning towards Sega getting some version of the Banshee2 / Voodoo3.
    > but it's open for discussion & debate
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > keep in mind, that Dreamcast is a seperate matter, since Dreamcast was the
    > consumer name for
    > Dural / Katana, the winning prototype console which used PowerVR2.
    >
    >
    First of One, Jun 22, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    Doug Guest

    I remember my first 3d accelerated video card: PCI Voodoo 3/2000. Seeing
    half life, Quake2 and Xwing:alliance for the first time with 3d accelerated
    video was a jaw-dropper. My Matrox Mystake 4MB had kept me going up until
    that time.

    --
    there is no .sig
    "First of One" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Pretty sure it was a version of the Voodoo3.
    >
    > BTW, from what I remember in a press release, 3dfx sued Sega over breach
    > of contract and won. The money it got was the only thing that kept 3dfx
    > from going into the red that quarter. Gives you an idea of how small 3dfx
    > was compared to the industry giants at that time...
    >
    > --
    > "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    > It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    > bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
    >
    >
    > <bulldog> wrote in message news:...
    >>
    >> I've always wanted to know what 3Dfx chip was used in Sega's 'Black Belt'
    >> prototype console, from 1997
    >>
    >> or rather, what *would* have been the *final* 3Dfx chip used in Black
    >> Belt, in 1998/1999 when the machine was to come out? ....being that
    >> early prototypes often do not have the final chip but a previous
    >> generation chip or incompleted next-gen chip....
    >>
    >>
    >> * modified custom Banshee (1x PixelFX2, 1x TexelFX2) intergrated on one
    >> chip
    >>
    >> * modified custom Banshee2 (1x PixelFX2, 2x TexelFX2) all intergrated
    >> on one chip <--- same as Voodoo3
    >>
    >>
    >> Sega and 3Dfx inked a contract, IIRC, in Feb 1997. Sega killed the
    >> contract in July 1997.
    >>
    >> Banshee for PCs came out, IIRC, in 1998, and Banshee2 / Voodoo3 in
    >> 1999. I am leaning towards Sega getting some version of the Banshee2 /
    >> Voodoo3. but it's open for discussion & debate
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> keep in mind, that Dreamcast is a seperate matter, since Dreamcast was
    >> the consumer name for
    >> Dural / Katana, the winning prototype console which used PowerVR2.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Doug, Jun 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Guest

    Gordon Guest

    "Doug" <> wrote in message
    news:K6oue.1298$...
    >
    >. My Matrox Mystake 4MB had kept me going up until that time.
    >


    I had one of those. It was marketed as a 3D accelerator yet it didn't even
    support bilinear filtering. The clown on the box said it all.
    Gordon, Jun 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Guest

    First of One Guest

    The first 3D accelerated game I played was MechWarrior2 bundled with my
    IBM's onboard 3D Rage II video. A subsequent driver release enabled me to
    play D3D games like Heavy Gear and Turok at 10-15 fps. For giggles I used
    Powerstrip and o/c'd the 2 MB video memory from 33 MHz to 45 MHz, but saw no
    performance gain. To this day, I think IBM still sells a 2 MB expansion for
    the Rage II (bringing the total to 4 MB), for the price of a 6600GT...

    Later I got a V3 2000 PCI just like yours. The difference was night and
    day... Back then, "high end" video cards sold for less than $200. I still
    have the card in a box as a backup, with a Pentium1 fan attached to the heat
    sink.

    --
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


    "Doug" <> wrote in message
    news:K6oue.1298$...
    >I remember my first 3d accelerated video card: PCI Voodoo 3/2000. Seeing
    >half life, Quake2 and Xwing:alliance for the first time with 3d accelerated
    >video was a jaw-dropper. My Matrox Mystake 4MB had kept me going up until
    >that time.
    First of One, Jun 23, 2005
    #5
  6. Guest

    Doug Guest

    Actually, my Matrox Mystique was capable of 3d accleration in three games I
    had: Mechwarrior, Mechwarrior Mercenaries and Xwing Alliance. It did predate
    any of the 3dFx cards. I wonder if the Mystake was the first 3d accelerator
    card?

    --
    there is no .sig
    "First of One" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The first 3D accelerated game I played was MechWarrior2 bundled with my
    > IBM's onboard 3D Rage II video. A subsequent driver release enabled me to
    > play D3D games like Heavy Gear and Turok at 10-15 fps. For giggles I used
    > Powerstrip and o/c'd the 2 MB video memory from 33 MHz to 45 MHz, but saw
    > no performance gain. To this day, I think IBM still sells a 2 MB expansion
    > for the Rage II (bringing the total to 4 MB), for the price of a 6600GT...
    >
    > Later I got a V3 2000 PCI just like yours. The difference was night and
    > day... Back then, "high end" video cards sold for less than $200. I still
    > have the card in a box as a backup, with a Pentium1 fan attached to the
    > heat sink.
    >
    > --
    > "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
    > It can therefore be said that politics is war without
    > bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
    >
    >
    > "Doug" <> wrote in message
    > news:K6oue.1298$...
    >>I remember my first 3d accelerated video card: PCI Voodoo 3/2000. Seeing
    >>half life, Quake2 and Xwing:alliance for the first time with 3d
    >>accelerated video was a jaw-dropper. My Matrox Mystake 4MB had kept me
    >>going up until that time.

    >
    >
    Doug, Jun 23, 2005
    #6
  7. Guest

    chrisv Guest

    Doug wrote:

    >I remember my first 3d accelerated video card: PCI Voodoo 3/2000. Seeing
    >half life, Quake2 and Xwing:alliance for the first time with 3d accelerated
    >video was a jaw-dropper. My Matrox Mystake 4MB had kept me going up until
    >that time.


    I had a Voodoo I, and even my non-geeky, non-game-playing, skeptic
    friends were impressed. Comparing Doom and Quake to GL-Quake and
    Quake II with the Voodoo. Massive improvement.
    chrisv, Jun 24, 2005
    #7
  8. Guest

    Memnoch Guest

    On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:51 -0500, chrisv <> wrote:

    >Doug wrote:
    >
    >>I remember my first 3d accelerated video card: PCI Voodoo 3/2000. Seeing
    >>half life, Quake2 and Xwing:alliance for the first time with 3d accelerated
    >>video was a jaw-dropper. My Matrox Mystake 4MB had kept me going up until
    >>that time.

    >
    >I had a Voodoo I, and even my non-geeky, non-game-playing, skeptic
    >friends were impressed. Comparing Doom and Quake to GL-Quake and
    >Quake II with the Voodoo. Massive improvement.


    First accelerated patch I had for my Voodoo 1 was Tomb Raider. I couldn't
    believe the difference it made.
    Memnoch, Jun 24, 2005
    #8
  9. Guest

    Gordon Guest

    "Memnoch" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >
    > First accelerated patch I had for my Voodoo 1 was Tomb Raider. I couldn't
    > believe the difference it made.
    >


    Same here. What impressed me most were the light reflections, dancing on the
    walls of the underwater passageways, of the second level (City of
    Vilcabamba).
    Gordon, Jun 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Guest

    john smith Guest

    3DFX was aquired by Nvidia sometime back in 2000 for a rather large amount
    of money. Now nvidia use the technology that 3DFX first pioneered into their
    FX range of cards.

    The next generation of FX cards from Nvidia will be far superior in design
    and speed ATI would be unable to keep up with Core Speeds and possibly
    Memory speeds due to lack of the technology that nvidia have in the
    pipeline.


    Consoles are nearly coming upto speed game wise with all the latest
    technology. Xbox 360 (Hyper PC O/C)
    , PS3 (major overhaul on PS2) not future proof and last the nintendo 256bit
    monster (no name released yet) keep watching for all these wonderful
    consoles to arrive.


    and to end all this off Nvidia (G70) range of GFX cards will start a
    Graphics card war like no other......

    in my opinion use what you have and let all graphic card companies that your
    happy with the existing card you have as they are fleecing you on the basis
    theat you need this technology. Which games use more than 256 meg memory and
    need anything over 400mhz core speed for GPU power the software houses work
    within guidelines to make games that function with this power source as
    above.



    You tell me any different in your opinions i would like to Know what you
    think...........Adios amigos
    <bulldog> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > I've always wanted to know what 3Dfx chip was used in Sega's 'Black Belt'
    > prototype console, from 1997
    >
    > or rather, what *would* have been the *final* 3Dfx chip used in Black
    > Belt, in 1998/1999 when the machine was to come out? ....being that
    > early prototypes often do not have the final chip but a previous
    > generation chip or incompleted next-gen chip....
    >
    >
    > * modified custom Banshee (1x PixelFX2, 1x TexelFX2) intergrated on one
    > chip
    >
    > * modified custom Banshee2 (1x PixelFX2, 2x TexelFX2) all intergrated
    > on one chip <--- same as Voodoo3
    >
    >
    > Sega and 3Dfx inked a contract, IIRC, in Feb 1997. Sega killed the
    > contract in July 1997.
    >
    > Banshee for PCs came out, IIRC, in 1998, and Banshee2 / Voodoo3 in 1999.
    > I am leaning towards Sega getting some version of the Banshee2 / Voodoo3.
    > but it's open for discussion & debate
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > keep in mind, that Dreamcast is a seperate matter, since Dreamcast was the
    > consumer name for
    > Dural / Katana, the winning prototype console which used PowerVR2.
    >
    >
    john smith, Jun 25, 2005
    #10
  11. ummm, your post is not entirely accurate and I disagree with some if
    not most of it
    (not everything but enough to make me feel the need to reply)


    quote:
    "3DFX was aquired by Nvidia sometime back in 2000 for a rather large
    amount
    of money. Now nvidia use the technology that 3DFX first pioneered into
    their
    FX range of cards."

    yes 3DFX was acquired by Nvidia in 2000 - but Nvidia is well past
    the FX generation of cards (NV3x) which was a semi-disaster for Nvidia.
    the NV3X / FX family used some degree of 3DFX technology but was
    actually started before Nvidia bought 3Dfx.


    the first family of Nvidia GPUs to *fully* utilize 3Dfx technology from
    the beginning was the NV4x family. the NV40 - GeForce 6800 and
    derivatives use a texturing system that was designed (at least in part)
    by the 3Dfx people who designed Rampage's texture system (the so-called
    Texture Computer)


    quote:
    "The next generation of FX cards from Nvidia will be far superior in
    design
    and speed ATI would be unable to keep up with Core Speeds and possibly
    Memory speeds due to lack of the technology that nvidia have in the
    pipeline."

    I disagree. first of all, the FX cards are dead. FX *only* applies to
    NV30, NV35 and any other NV3X GPUs, and *not* the NV40 - GeForce 6800,
    other NV4X cards, or the new G70 - GeForce 7800.

    Also, your point about Nvidia being faster than ATI is totally
    debatable. right now, it is ATI that has the core frequency /
    clockspeed advantage over Nvidia. but even beyond that, it is more
    about the architecture itself and how much work a GPU can do per clock
    cycle. in this area, Nvidia has some advantages over ATI, and ATI has
    some advantages over Nvidia. there is no clear cut winner at present.
    we will have to re-examine this once ATI's R520 comes out, and compare
    it to G70.



    quote:
    "Consoles are nearly coming upto speed game wise with all the latest
    technology. Xbox 360 (Hyper PC O/C)"

    huh? the Xbox 360 is not based on PC technology this time. it has a
    custom triple-core CPU based on IBM PowerPC, not Intel or AMD X86.
    on the graphics side, the ATI GPU is not based on any PC GPU this time,
    it is a totally fresh design. and even though this design will make its
    way over to the PC in the coming 12-18 months (R600) the Xbox360 GPU
    is *not* based on a current PC GPU design. but the Nvidia PS3 GPU,
    RSX, is. the RSX is based on G70.

    quote:
    ", PS3 (major overhaul on PS2) not future proof and last the nintendo
    256bit
    monster (no name released yet) keep watching for all these wonderful
    consoles to arrive. "

    the Nintendo console is not "256-bit". bits are no longer used to
    define consoles anymore. The codenamed for the Nintendo console is
    'Revolution'. and although Revolution may or may not end up being the
    final name, it is pretty much incorrect to say the new Nintendo
    console doesnt have a name.

    quote:
    "and to end all this off Nvidia (G70) range of GFX cards will start a
    Graphics card war like no other...... "

    the G70 is not starting some new war. it is not like we haven't seen a
    graphics war like this before. it is simply a continuation of the
    Nvidia-ATI war that has been on-going since 2000 when the graphics
    industry centered around Nvidia and ATI (GeForce vs Radeon) because
    hardly anyone else was left after ATI bought ArtX and Nvidia bought
    3Dfx.
    parallax-scroll, Jun 27, 2005
    #11
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