what a battery hassle!!

Discussion in 'Dell' started by MZB, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. MZB

    MZB Guest

    OK, this is about my HP Compaq Presario CQ60-615DX. I know this is a
    Dell newsgroup, but all my other computers are Dells and you folks are
    very helpful. Also, I already posted here about the problem.

    Anyway, here's a quick synopsis of the problem: Computer would show 30%
    battery life remaining but it would suddenly shut down. I started
    getting a W-7 error msg: "consider replacing your battery."

    OK, I would recalibrate the battery and that worked for a few days, but
    then problem occured again. Basically, the battery used to last for 2
    1/2 hours (not great to begin with, but a known problem) and now it was
    down to an hour on a full charge and dropping fast.

    I called Compaq. They ran some tests and they said I need to recalibrate
    the battery again. I described how I did it and they said it was correct
    but their tests indicated a recalibration was necessary. Ok, I did it.
    This first call lasted 90 minutes.

    No joy, so called them back. They had me do one extra step, remove my
    battery and put it back in. Suddenly the error messages went away and
    their own tests indicated everything was good. I was skeptical, but
    okay. This was another 60-minute call yesterday (why do they have me go
    through the same troubleshooting crap -- again following their scripts
    again).

    Today, same problem. I call them and this time their tests say battery
    can't hold a charge and needs to be replaced. That should be it. Right?
    Wrong. They said it should have shown a warranty part number. It didn't.
    This means there could be something else wrong with the computer and I
    would have to send it in. I said no way. They said that's what I have to
    do. I demanded to speak with his supervisor. He says his supervisor is
    busy. I said I'll wait. After 5 minutes he comes back and says he got
    authorization to send me a battery (all this is under warranty).

    So, I'm supposed to get a new battery next week. I'm hopeful that is the
    problem. I guess it could be something else. Some flaw giving
    information that the battery is worse than it is (ie: not calibrating
    right, despite my attempts). Any thoughts on this?

    My guess is that all signs still seem to point to a bad battery. Period.
    With my Dells, I wouldn't get any specific error messages, but over time
    the battery would last less on a full charge. It usually took a year
    (very frequent use, discharging and charging). This Compaq battery
    lasted 8 months. Obviously, I'll see what happens when I get the battery!

    It just seems to me that they intentionally delay things and create
    hassles, hoping that I will give up. I have used Dell's support (usually
    chat) and never had that problem. I've had a few things replaced by
    Dell, although nothing in the last few years. I guess I'm just venting a
    bit.

    Any thoughts on the battery issue? Any guesses on whether or not the
    problem really is a battery problem?

    Mel
     
    MZB, Mar 6, 2011
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. MZB

    Justin Guest

    In article <il0lit$qan$-september.org>,
    MZB <> wrote:

    > OK, this is about my HP Compaq Presario CQ60-615DX. I know this is a
    > Dell newsgroup, but all my other computers are Dells and you folks are
    > very helpful. Also, I already posted here about the problem.
    > Any thoughts on the battery issue? Any guesses on whether or not the
    > problem really is a battery problem?
    >
    > Mel


    Could be the motherboard itself.
    Or I wonder if the RFID tag on the battery is going bad.
    OR the RFID sensor on the machine itself is going bad.

    I suggest you make sure all of your important data is backed up. If
    this is a board issue that machine could become a brick without warning.

    After fixing all these PeeCee's I switched to a Mac two years ago.
    I suggest you consider a Macbook or Macbook Pro for your next machine.
    They simply don't have this level of problems.
     
    Justin, Mar 6, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. MZB

    MZB Guest

    On 3/6/2011 6:49 PM, Justin wrote:
    > In article<il0lit$qan$-september.org>,
    > MZB<> wrote:
    >
    >> OK, this is about my HP Compaq Presario CQ60-615DX. I know this is a
    >> Dell newsgroup, but all my other computers are Dells and you folks are
    >> very helpful. Also, I already posted here about the problem.
    >> Any thoughts on the battery issue? Any guesses on whether or not the
    >> problem really is a battery problem?
    >>
    >> Mel

    >
    > Could be the motherboard itself.
    > Or I wonder if the RFID tag on the battery is going bad.
    > OR the RFID sensor on the machine itself is going bad.
    >
    > I suggest you make sure all of your important data is backed up. If
    > this is a board issue that machine could become a brick without warning.
    >
    > After fixing all these PeeCee's I switched to a Mac two years ago.
    > I suggest you consider a Macbook or Macbook Pro for your next machine.
    > They simply don't have this level of problems.

    Well, everyone: At least they were fast on the battery delivery. It came
    via overnite, free as per the warranty. I just installed it and charged
    it up. This time the HP Test says the battery is Good. Also, I've been
    on it for an hour and the charge has gone from 100% to 82%. So far, all
    looks good. (Now watch it go to zero in 10 minutes).

    Incidentally, I did not perform a calibration. I'm not sure if you need
    to do that with a new battery. I've never had to recalibrate a Dell battery.

    Keeping my fingers crossed.

    Mel
     
    MZB, Mar 8, 2011
    #3
  4. MZB

    Justin Guest

    In article <il5qp1$5nm$-september.org>,
    MZB <> wrote:

    > On 3/6/2011 6:49 PM, Justin wrote:
    > > In article<il0lit$qan$-september.org>,
    > > MZB<> wrote:
    > >
    > >> OK, this is about my HP Compaq Presario CQ60-615DX. I know this is a
    > >> Dell newsgroup, but all my other computers are Dells and you folks are
    > >> very helpful. Also, I already posted here about the problem.
    > >> Any thoughts on the battery issue? Any guesses on whether or not the
    > >> problem really is a battery problem?
    > >>
    > >> Mel

    > >
    > > Could be the motherboard itself.
    > > Or I wonder if the RFID tag on the battery is going bad.
    > > OR the RFID sensor on the machine itself is going bad.
    > >
    > > I suggest you make sure all of your important data is backed up. If
    > > this is a board issue that machine could become a brick without warning.
    > >
    > > After fixing all these PeeCee's I switched to a Mac two years ago.
    > > I suggest you consider a Macbook or Macbook Pro for your next machine.
    > > They simply don't have this level of problems.

    > Well, everyone: At least they were fast on the battery delivery. It came
    > via overnite, free as per the warranty. I just installed it and charged
    > it up. This time the HP Test says the battery is Good. Also, I've been
    > on it for an hour and the charge has gone from 100% to 82%. So far, all
    > looks good. (Now watch it go to zero in 10 minutes).
    >
    > Incidentally, I did not perform a calibration. I'm not sure if you need
    > to do that with a new battery. I've never had to recalibrate a Dell battery.
    >
    > Keeping my fingers crossed.
    >
    > Mel


    for your nest laptop, I still suggest a Mac. :)
     
    Justin, Mar 10, 2011
    #4
  5. MZB

    Lucky Guest

    "Justin" <> wrote in message
    news:-september.org...
    > In article <il5qp1$5nm$-september.org>,
    > MZB <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 3/6/2011 6:49 PM, Justin wrote:
    >> > In article<il0lit$qan$-september.org>,
    >> > MZB<> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> OK, this is about my HP Compaq Presario CQ60-615DX. I know this is a
    >> >> Dell newsgroup, but all my other computers are Dells and you folks are
    >> >> very helpful. Also, I already posted here about the problem.
    >> >> Any thoughts on the battery issue? Any guesses on whether or not the
    >> >> problem really is a battery problem?
    >> >>
    >> >> Mel
    >> >
    >> > Could be the motherboard itself.
    >> > Or I wonder if the RFID tag on the battery is going bad.
    >> > OR the RFID sensor on the machine itself is going bad.
    >> >
    >> > I suggest you make sure all of your important data is backed up. If
    >> > this is a board issue that machine could become a brick without
    >> > warning.
    >> >
    >> > After fixing all these PeeCee's I switched to a Mac two years ago.
    >> > I suggest you consider a Macbook or Macbook Pro for your next machine.
    >> > They simply don't have this level of problems.

    >> Well, everyone: At least they were fast on the battery delivery. It came
    >> via overnite, free as per the warranty. I just installed it and charged
    >> it up. This time the HP Test says the battery is Good. Also, I've been
    >> on it for an hour and the charge has gone from 100% to 82%. So far, all
    >> looks good. (Now watch it go to zero in 10 minutes).
    >>
    >> Incidentally, I did not perform a calibration. I'm not sure if you need
    >> to do that with a new battery. I've never had to recalibrate a Dell
    >> battery.
    >>
    >> Keeping my fingers crossed.
    >>
    >> Mel

    >
    > for your nest laptop, I still suggest a Mac. :)



    I second that, whole heartedly.
     
    Lucky, Mar 10, 2011
    #5
  6. MZB

    BillW50 Guest

    On 3/9/2011 7:46 PM, Lucky wrote:
    >
    > "Justin" <> wrote in message
    > news:-september.org...
    >>
    >> for your nest laptop, I still suggest a Mac. :)

    >
    >
    > I second that, whole heartedly.


    According to Consumer Reports, Macs were just mediocre in the reliably
    department. I was also a contractor working for Apple Computer for two
    years. And the only computer they had that was reliable 24/7 was their
    only Windows machine (a Dell I believe) that they needed to run the UPS
    software. I thought that was quite humorous myself. ;-)

    And anybody considering with getting a Mac (and paying up to three times
    more than what the hardware is worth), I suggest peeking in the Mac
    forums. As there are plenty of users complaining about them there. And
    then weigh that against if it is all worth it to you. ;-)

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era)
    Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
     
    BillW50, Mar 10, 2011
    #6
  7. MZB

    RnR Guest

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:31:44 -0600, BillW50 <> wrote:

    >On 3/9/2011 7:46 PM, Lucky wrote:
    >>
    >> "Justin" <> wrote in message
    >> news:-september.org...
    >>>
    >>> for your nest laptop, I still suggest a Mac. :)

    >>
    >>
    >> I second that, whole heartedly.

    >
    >According to Consumer Reports, Macs were just mediocre in the reliably
    >department. I was also a contractor working for Apple Computer for two
    >years. And the only computer they had that was reliable 24/7 was their
    >only Windows machine (a Dell I believe) that they needed to run the UPS
    >software. I thought that was quite humorous myself. ;-)
    >
    >And anybody considering with getting a Mac (and paying up to three times
    >more than what the hardware is worth), I suggest peeking in the Mac
    >forums. As there are plenty of users complaining about them there. And
    >then weigh that against if it is all worth it to you. ;-)



    Bill, in fairness to any Mac (I can't believe I'm defending them since
    I never owned one nor want to), you will usually see a lot more
    complaints against vs for as that seems to be human nature. Often,
    when I'm researching on the net for some item, I have to weigh that in
    my decision (that isn't as easy as it sounds tho). Now as to the Mac
    quality, I have no comment since I never owned one nor read up on
    them. To be honest, I agree they are overpriced and overall I'm
    happy with my pc's / laptops and would rather spend less but more
    often for newer equipment to keep up with technology. For me, Apple
    has no advantage but that might be why some are willing to buy Apple.
    Sometimes tho I wonder if some are buying Apple as a status symbol???
     
    RnR, Mar 11, 2011
    #7
  8. MZB

    BillW50 Guest

    On 3/11/2011 6:43 AM, RnR wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:31:44 -0600, BillW50<> wrote:
    >
    >> On 3/9/2011 7:46 PM, Lucky wrote:
    >>>
    >>> "Justin"<> wrote in message
    >>> news:-september.org...
    >>>>
    >>>> for your nest laptop, I still suggest a Mac. :)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I second that, whole heartedly.

    >>
    >> According to Consumer Reports, Macs were just mediocre in the reliably
    >> department. I was also a contractor working for Apple Computer for two
    >> years. And the only computer they had that was reliable 24/7 was their
    >> only Windows machine (a Dell I believe) that they needed to run the UPS
    >> software. I thought that was quite humorous myself. ;-)
    >>
    >> And anybody considering with getting a Mac (and paying up to three times
    >> more than what the hardware is worth), I suggest peeking in the Mac
    >> forums. As there are plenty of users complaining about them there. And
    >> then weigh that against if it is all worth it to you. ;-)

    >
    >
    > Bill, in fairness to any Mac (I can't believe I'm defending them since
    > I never owned one nor want to), you will usually see a lot more
    > complaints against vs for as that seems to be human nature. Often,
    > when I'm researching on the net for some item, I have to weigh that in
    > my decision (that isn't as easy as it sounds tho). Now as to the Mac
    > quality, I have no comment since I never owned one nor read up on
    > them. To be honest, I agree they are overpriced and overall I'm
    > happy with my pc's / laptops and would rather spend less but more
    > often for newer equipment to keep up with technology. For me, Apple
    > has no advantage but that might be why some are willing to buy Apple.
    > Sometimes tho I wonder if some are buying Apple as a status symbol???


    You got it exactly!

    As for Mac quality, they don't take shortcuts as often like a lot of the
    PC manufactures sometimes does. But that doesn't mean that shortcuts are
    always bad either. As sometimes it actually works out really well.

    On the other hand, Mac reliability isn't the top of the line either.
    Although you would think it would be since you are paying a premium for
    it. As for example, Apple is having troubles from Seagate and Nvidia.
    Each one blames the other one. Even ignoring these two, Macs reliably
    still isn't better than just average.

    I remember back when I was a newbie back in the 70's. And there was a
    saying back then that I think most have forgotten about. And that was
    the advice to pick the applications that you want to run, then pick the
    OS that will run them. And I can't think of any better advice even for
    today. So many people do just the opposite and all it leads to is
    nothing but lots of trouble.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era)
    Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
     
    BillW50, Mar 11, 2011
    #8
  9. MZB

    RnR Guest

    On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 07:54:49 -0600, BillW50 <> wrote:

    >On 3/11/2011 6:43 AM, RnR wrote:
    >> On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:31:44 -0600, BillW50<> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 3/9/2011 7:46 PM, Lucky wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> "Justin"<> wrote in message
    >>>> news:-september.org...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> for your nest laptop, I still suggest a Mac. :)
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I second that, whole heartedly.
    >>>
    >>> According to Consumer Reports, Macs were just mediocre in the reliably
    >>> department. I was also a contractor working for Apple Computer for two
    >>> years. And the only computer they had that was reliable 24/7 was their
    >>> only Windows machine (a Dell I believe) that they needed to run the UPS
    >>> software. I thought that was quite humorous myself. ;-)
    >>>
    >>> And anybody considering with getting a Mac (and paying up to three times
    >>> more than what the hardware is worth), I suggest peeking in the Mac
    >>> forums. As there are plenty of users complaining about them there. And
    >>> then weigh that against if it is all worth it to you. ;-)

    >>
    >>
    >> Bill, in fairness to any Mac (I can't believe I'm defending them since
    >> I never owned one nor want to), you will usually see a lot more
    >> complaints against vs for as that seems to be human nature. Often,
    >> when I'm researching on the net for some item, I have to weigh that in
    >> my decision (that isn't as easy as it sounds tho). Now as to the Mac
    >> quality, I have no comment since I never owned one nor read up on
    >> them. To be honest, I agree they are overpriced and overall I'm
    >> happy with my pc's / laptops and would rather spend less but more
    >> often for newer equipment to keep up with technology. For me, Apple
    >> has no advantage but that might be why some are willing to buy Apple.
    >> Sometimes tho I wonder if some are buying Apple as a status symbol???

    >
    >You got it exactly!
    >
    >As for Mac quality, they don't take shortcuts as often like a lot of the
    >PC manufactures sometimes does. But that doesn't mean that shortcuts are
    >always bad either. As sometimes it actually works out really well.
    >
    >On the other hand, Mac reliability isn't the top of the line either.
    >Although you would think it would be since you are paying a premium for
    >it. As for example, Apple is having troubles from Seagate and Nvidia.
    >Each one blames the other one. Even ignoring these two, Macs reliably
    >still isn't better than just average.
    >
    >I remember back when I was a newbie back in the 70's. And there was a
    >saying back then that I think most have forgotten about. And that was
    >the advice to pick the applications that you want to run, then pick the
    >OS that will run them. And I can't think of any better advice even for
    >today. So many people do just the opposite and all it leads to is
    >nothing but lots of trouble.



    I *like* that advice <grin>.
     
    RnR, Mar 11, 2011
    #9
  10. "RnR" observed:
    > BillW50 wrote:
    >
    >> [....]
    >>According to Consumer Reports, Macs were just mediocre in the reliably
    >>department. I was also a contractor working for Apple Computer for two
    >>years. And the only computer they had that was reliable 24/7 was their
    >>only Windows machine (a Dell I believe) that they needed to run the UPS
    >>software. I thought that was quite humorous myself. ;-)
    >>
    >> [....]>

    >
    > Bill, in fairness to any Mac (I can't believe I'm defending them since
    > I never owned one nor want to), you will usually see a lot more
    > complaints against vs for as that seems to be human nature.... [....]



    Presumably, Consumer Reports polled owners of other brands as well,
    and they had the same opportunity to grouch about their computers. So if
    the magazine saw a percentage of gripes about Mac reliability, it would have
    been statistically compared against other brands.

    *TimDaniels*
     
    Timothy Daniels, Mar 11, 2011
    #10
  11. MZB

    BillW50 Guest

    On 3/11/2011 11:36 AM, Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > "RnR" observed:
    >> BillW50 wrote:
    >>
    >>> [....]
    >>> According to Consumer Reports, Macs were just mediocre in the reliably
    >>> department. I was also a contractor working for Apple Computer for two
    >>> years. And the only computer they had that was reliable 24/7 was their
    >>> only Windows machine (a Dell I believe) that they needed to run the UPS
    >>> software. I thought that was quite humorous myself. ;-)
    >>>
    >>> [....]>

    >>
    >> Bill, in fairness to any Mac (I can't believe I'm defending them since
    >> I never owned one nor want to), you will usually see a lot more
    >> complaints against vs for as that seems to be human nature.... [....]

    >
    >
    > Presumably, Consumer Reports polled owners of other brands as well,
    > and they had the same opportunity to grouch about their computers. So if
    > the magazine saw a percentage of gripes about Mac reliability, it would have
    > been statistically compared against other brands.
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


    Yes true Tim. Over 75,000 owners of laptops were polled who purchased a
    laptop between 2005 to 2009 (this report came out at the end of 2009).
    And they included Apple and eight PC manufactures. And noted anybody who
    either had to have it repaired or had a serious problem with it. And
    they ranged between 16% to 21%. And Apple was right in the middle at 19%.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era)
    Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
     
    BillW50, Mar 11, 2011
    #11
  12. MZB

    Justin Guest

    In article <ildpgq$28q$-september.org>,
    BillW50 <> wrote:
    >
    > Yes true Tim. Over 75,000 owners of laptops were polled who purchased a
    > laptop between 2005 to 2009 (this report came out at the end of 2009).
    > And they included Apple and eight PC manufactures. And noted anybody who
    > either had to have it repaired or had a serious problem with it. And
    > they ranged between 16% to 21%. And Apple was right in the middle at 19%.


    Don't forget, everybody was affected by that capacitor issue.
    So that probably brought everyone's marks down. However I disagree from
    a standpoint of research and IT experience that Macs are just as prone
    to problems as PCs. You just don't see the same percentage of Macs
    hitting the repair shop than various PC brands.
     
    Justin, Mar 15, 2011
    #12
  13. MZB

    BillW50 Guest

    On 3/15/2011 6:33 PM, Justin wrote:
    > In article<ildpgq$28q$-september.org>,
    > BillW50<> wrote:
    >>
    >> Yes true Tim. Over 75,000 owners of laptops were polled who purchased a
    >> laptop between 2005 to 2009 (this report came out at the end of 2009).
    >> And they included Apple and eight PC manufactures. And noted anybody who
    >> either had to have it repaired or had a serious problem with it. And
    >> they ranged between 16% to 21%. And Apple was right in the middle at 19%.

    >
    > Don't forget, everybody was affected by that capacitor issue.
    > So that probably brought everyone's marks down. However I disagree from
    > a standpoint of research and IT experience that Macs are just as prone
    > to problems as PCs. You just don't see the same percentage of Macs
    > hitting the repair shop than various PC brands.


    Which capacitor problem are you talking about? The one I remember was
    back in 2001 and it lasted a plus or minus 2 years from that year. I
    bought an Avatar back then and it became completely worthless in about 8
    months (Avatar said sorry and that was it). But I don't remember any
    other capacitor problems. Was there another one since 2005?

    Apple doesn't have more problems than average? Oh you need to spend more
    time in the Apple forums, as they too have problems like the rest of
    them. Oddly enough, they are all pretty close no matter what you buy as
    far as the make goes. The only real difference is some models are really
    dependable and some are not regardless among manufactures.

    And speaking about Apple, they have enough money to go after any clones
    (competition) that comes their way. Yes there has been some that tried
    and Apple has exhausted their net worth in court. So Apple is afraid of
    competition and puts anybody out of business who tries.

    So they can charge whatever they want to for their products. Even if it
    is three times or more than the darn thing is worth. But hey, it is
    Apple we are talking about. As they can rip you off and nobody is going
    to say anything.

    Actually pretty sad when you think about it. :-(

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era)
    Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
     
    BillW50, Mar 16, 2011
    #13
  14. MZB

    Justin Guest

    In article <ilp21v$h6l$-september.org>,
    BillW50 <> wrote:

    > On 3/15/2011 6:33 PM, Justin wrote:
    > > In article<ildpgq$28q$-september.org>,
    > > BillW50<> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> Yes true Tim. Over 75,000 owners of laptops were polled who purchased a
    > >> laptop between 2005 to 2009 (this report came out at the end of 2009).
    > >> And they included Apple and eight PC manufactures. And noted anybody who
    > >> either had to have it repaired or had a serious problem with it. And
    > >> they ranged between 16% to 21%. And Apple was right in the middle at 19%.

    > >
    > > Don't forget, everybody was affected by that capacitor issue.
    > > So that probably brought everyone's marks down. However I disagree from
    > > a standpoint of research and IT experience that Macs are just as prone
    > > to problems as PCs. You just don't see the same percentage of Macs
    > > hitting the repair shop than various PC brands.

    >
    > Which capacitor problem are you talking about? The one I remember was
    > back in 2001 and it lasted a plus or minus 2 years from that year. I
    > bought an Avatar back then and it became completely worthless in about 8
    > months (Avatar said sorry and that was it). But I don't remember any
    > other capacitor problems. Was there another one since 2005?


    The 2005 one is still ongoing.
    Caps from that production run were on the market for years afterwards
    from what I understand.

    >
    > Apple doesn't have more problems than average? Oh you need to spend more
    > time in the Apple forums, as they too have problems like the rest of
    > them. Oddly enough, they are all pretty close no matter what you buy as
    > far as the make goes. The only real difference is some models are really
    > dependable and some are not regardless among manufactures


    The reason people post on forums is because they have a problem.
    Therefore everyone on a board has a problem - you can't use that as
    quantitative evidence regarding reliability.
    All the cars at a mechanics shop have something wrong with him. You
    have to look at the mechanics business and see what percentage of his
    business is with which brand of car, and then look at market share.
    But that "look on the forums" philosophy doesn't make any sense at all.
    There are Honda and Toyota forums out there as well, does that mean Ford
    and Chevy are just as reliable?
     
    Justin, Mar 16, 2011
    #14
  15. "Justin" wrote:
    > The reason people post on forums is because they have a problem.
    > Therefore everyone on a board has a problem - you can't use that as
    > quantitative evidence regarding reliability.
    > All the cars at a mechanics shop have something wrong with him. You
    > have to look at the mechanics business and see what percentage of his
    > business is with which brand of car, and then look at market share.
    > But that "look on the forums" philosophy doesn't make any sense at all.
    > There are Honda and Toyota forums out there as well, does that mean Ford
    > and Chevy are just as reliable?


    Forget the forums for statistical conclusions. That's a straw man. But
    can you overlook consumer Reports' statistical analysis of reliability reports
    from thousands of owners who were asked to report on their having either
    problems and no problems? If an owner reported no problem, that was
    recorded right along with owners reporting problems. And Consumer
    Reports concluded that owners' reports showed mediocre reliability for
    Apple's personal computers. Q.E.D.

    *TimDaniels*
     
    Timothy Daniels, Mar 16, 2011
    #15
  16. MZB

    Justin Guest

    In article <>,
    "Timothy Daniels" <> wrote:

    > "Justin" wrote:
    > > The reason people post on forums is because they have a problem.
    > > Therefore everyone on a board has a problem - you can't use that as
    > > quantitative evidence regarding reliability.
    > > All the cars at a mechanics shop have something wrong with him. You
    > > have to look at the mechanics business and see what percentage of his
    > > business is with which brand of car, and then look at market share.
    > > But that "look on the forums" philosophy doesn't make any sense at all.
    > > There are Honda and Toyota forums out there as well, does that mean Ford
    > > and Chevy are just as reliable?

    >
    > Forget the forums for statistical conclusions. That's a straw man. But
    > can you overlook consumer Reports' statistical analysis of reliability reports
    > from thousands of owners who were asked to report on their having either
    > problems and no problems? If an owner reported no problem, that was
    > recorded right along with owners reporting problems. And Consumer
    > Reports concluded that owners' reports showed mediocre reliability for
    > Apple's personal computers. Q.E.D.
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


    Maybe mediocre by Apple's standards; but certainly not when compared to
    the industry as a whole.
    Honestly, using forums as a indicator?
    You also have to look at the point spread, the difference between the
    best and most reliable and Apple is alot smaller than the difference
    between the industry average and the worst of the worst - Dell and HP.
    I know you like to bash Apple but come on.
    Q.E.D. x 10.
     
    Justin, Mar 16, 2011
    #16
  17. MZB

    BillW50 Guest

    On 3/16/2011 12:12 AM, Justin wrote:
    > In article<ilp21v$h6l$-september.org>,
    > BillW50<> wrote:
    >
    >> On 3/15/2011 6:33 PM, Justin wrote:
    >>> In article<ildpgq$28q$-september.org>,
    >>> BillW50<> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes true Tim. Over 75,000 owners of laptops were polled who purchased a
    >>>> laptop between 2005 to 2009 (this report came out at the end of 2009).
    >>>> And they included Apple and eight PC manufactures. And noted anybody who
    >>>> either had to have it repaired or had a serious problem with it. And
    >>>> they ranged between 16% to 21%. And Apple was right in the middle at 19%.
    >>>
    >>> Don't forget, everybody was affected by that capacitor issue.
    >>> So that probably brought everyone's marks down. However I disagree from
    >>> a standpoint of research and IT experience that Macs are just as prone
    >>> to problems as PCs. You just don't see the same percentage of Macs
    >>> hitting the repair shop than various PC brands.

    >>
    >> Which capacitor problem are you talking about? The one I remember was
    >> back in 2001 and it lasted a plus or minus 2 years from that year. I
    >> bought an Avatar back then and it became completely worthless in about 8
    >> months (Avatar said sorry and that was it). But I don't remember any
    >> other capacitor problems. Was there another one since 2005?

    >
    > The 2005 one is still ongoing.
    > Caps from that production run were on the market for years afterwards
    > from what I understand.


    I sure would like to learn more about this. The bad ones back in 2001
    were only affected if they were manufactured in Taiwan.

    >> Apple doesn't have more problems than average? Oh you need to spend more
    >> time in the Apple forums, as they too have problems like the rest of
    >> them. Oddly enough, they are all pretty close no matter what you buy as
    >> far as the make goes. The only real difference is some models are really
    >> dependable and some are not regardless among manufactures

    >
    > The reason people post on forums is because they have a problem.
    > Therefore everyone on a board has a problem - you can't use that as
    > quantitative evidence regarding reliability.
    > All the cars at a mechanics shop have something wrong with him. You
    > have to look at the mechanics business and see what percentage of his
    > business is with which brand of car, and then look at market share.
    > But that "look on the forums" philosophy doesn't make any sense at all.
    > There are Honda and Toyota forums out there as well, does that mean Ford
    > and Chevy are just as reliable?


    No, I truly disagree. Not everybody who posts has a problem. Heck just
    look at you? You are posting about Macs and you didn't have a single
    problem with them yet.

    People sometimes ask me how many computers have I owned over the
    decades. Frankly I don't have a complete count as there were dozens of
    them. And I actually had very little to no problems with the vast
    majority of them. And some of the oldest ones are 30 years old now. And
    I fire some of them up now and then just to see if they still work. And
    surprisingly, the vast majority still work just fine like they did when
    they were brand new.

    Also I find comments from newsgroups and forums to be very helpful. And
    these online stores which allows comments about the products they sell
    are also helpful. As I have learned a great deal from them. And unbiased
    sources like Consumer Reports are also very useful.

    Speaking about automobiles, I only subscribed to one newsgroup for about
    a week. So I don't know a lot about them, unlike I do about computer
    forums. But I wouldn't doubt that you can learn a great deal from them.
    Heck I do listen to a weekly radio show called Car Talk and I learned a
    great deal about what to look out for. Heck they even have their own
    forum as well.

    So I disagree that forums and newsgroups are not that helpful. As I see
    them as very helpful. And even if you just don't have the time to keep
    up with them, there are FAQs out there to get you caught up very quickly
    in a very short period of time.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era)
    Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
     
    BillW50, Mar 16, 2011
    #17
  18. MZB

    BillW50 Guest

    On 3/16/2011 9:08 AM, BillW50 wrote:
    > On 3/16/2011 12:12 AM, Justin wrote:
    >> In article<ilp21v$h6l$-september.org>,
    >> BillW50<> wrote:
    >>

    > No, I truly disagree. Not everybody who posts has a problem. Heck just
    > look at you? You are posting about Macs and you didn't have a single
    > problem with them yet...


    Sorry Justin, that was Lucky and not you.

    --
    Bill
    Alienware M9700 - 1GB - Two Nvidia 7900GS running in SLI mode
     
    BillW50, Mar 16, 2011
    #18
  19. MZB

    Justin Guest

    In article <ilqg9b$okv$-september.org>,
    BillW50 <> wrote:

    > On 3/16/2011 12:12 AM, Justin wrote:
    > > In article<ilp21v$h6l$-september.org>,
    > > BillW50<> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On 3/15/2011 6:33 PM, Justin wrote:
    > >>> In article<ildpgq$28q$-september.org>,
    > >>> BillW50<> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Yes true Tim. Over 75,000 owners of laptops were polled who purchased a
    > >>>> laptop between 2005 to 2009 (this report came out at the end of 2009).
    > >>>> And they included Apple and eight PC manufactures. And noted anybody who
    > >>>> either had to have it repaired or had a serious problem with it. And
    > >>>> they ranged between 16% to 21%. And Apple was right in the middle at 19%.
    > >>>
    > >>> Don't forget, everybody was affected by that capacitor issue.
    > >>> So that probably brought everyone's marks down. However I disagree from
    > >>> a standpoint of research and IT experience that Macs are just as prone
    > >>> to problems as PCs. You just don't see the same percentage of Macs
    > >>> hitting the repair shop than various PC brands.
    > >>
    > >> Which capacitor problem are you talking about? The one I remember was
    > >> back in 2001 and it lasted a plus or minus 2 years from that year. I
    > >> bought an Avatar back then and it became completely worthless in about 8
    > >> months (Avatar said sorry and that was it). But I don't remember any
    > >> other capacitor problems. Was there another one since 2005?

    > >
    > > The 2005 one is still ongoing.
    > > Caps from that production run were on the market for years afterwards
    > > from what I understand.

    >
    > I sure would like to learn more about this. The bad ones back in 2001
    > were only affected if they were manufactured in Taiwan.
    >
    > >> Apple doesn't have more problems than average? Oh you need to spend more
    > >> time in the Apple forums, as they too have problems like the rest of
    > >> them. Oddly enough, they are all pretty close no matter what you buy as
    > >> far as the make goes. The only real difference is some models are really
    > >> dependable and some are not regardless among manufactures

    > >
    > > The reason people post on forums is because they have a problem.
    > > Therefore everyone on a board has a problem - you can't use that as
    > > quantitative evidence regarding reliability.
    > > All the cars at a mechanics shop have something wrong with him. You
    > > have to look at the mechanics business and see what percentage of his
    > > business is with which brand of car, and then look at market share.
    > > But that "look on the forums" philosophy doesn't make any sense at all.
    > > There are Honda and Toyota forums out there as well, does that mean Ford
    > > and Chevy are just as reliable?

    >
    > No, I truly disagree. Not everybody who posts has a problem. Heck just
    > look at you? You are posting about Macs and you didn't have a single
    > problem with them yet.
    >


    Then there's the fact people switching from Windows to Mac post in those
    forums with "problems" on how to do something.

    >
    > So I disagree that forums and newsgroups are not that helpful. As I see
    > them as very helpful. And even if you just don't have the time to keep
    > up with them, there are FAQs out there to get you caught up very quickly
    > in a very short period of time.


    I never said they weren't helpful, only that they aren't helpful in
    gauging how reliable a particular brand is.
     
    Justin, Mar 16, 2011
    #19
  20. "Justin" wrote:
    > I never said they weren't helpful, only that they aren't helpful in
    > gauging how reliable a particular brand is.


    People will react to what they imagine or expect to see,
    and not to what is actual seen. Same in newsgroups - you
    point out the non-statistical nature of forums, and someone
    "reads" that to mean that you think forums aren't helpful.
    <sheeesh>

    *TimDaniels*
     
    Timothy Daniels, Mar 16, 2011
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Rick Bryan

    "No hassle" swap of mainboard

    Rick Bryan, Jul 12, 2005, in forum: Asus
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    239
  2. Colin Wilson

    New Dell, McAffee hassle

    Colin Wilson, Sep 19, 2004, in forum: Dell
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    507
    Gary Avrett
    Sep 21, 2004
  3. Ron Hardin

    Dell Rebate Hassle to Death

    Ron Hardin, Mar 30, 2006, in forum: Dell
    Replies:
    141
    Views:
    2,714
    journey
    Apr 11, 2006
  4. xrrr
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    207
  5. Dr. Linux
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    236
    ~misfit~
    Apr 15, 2004
Loading...

Share This Page