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Ultra 10 HW questions

 
 
Wes Groleau
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      09-13-2008, 03:47 PM
I bought an Ultra 10 for $20, no monitor or keyboard.

I see that the two 128MB RAM cards have the same socket
168-pin as PC-133. Are they different? Are there any
rules about balancing sizes or using certain sockets first?

Given the CPU power of a Sparc of that era, is 256 MB
adequate for using Solaris as merely a DNS server, web
proxy, and fileserver? What if I used a Linux distro
instead?

Sun's sales-oriented data sheet say 440MHz processor,
but all the Ultra 10s I've looked at so far on eBay
say 333MHz. Did Sun change that during the Mfg.
life of the model? Can I tell which I've got without
actually booting it up?

I saw a motherboard on eBay which also had a picture
on one chip on it. I assume that was the processor
(why else would they picture that particular chip?).
But mine has a piggyback board with a heatsink
big enough to cover two such chips. Is it a dual-CPU
enhancement?

Where can I find hardware docs that identify connectors
and jumpers? I've found a couple of PDFs but they
did not have that sort of info.

thanks

--
Wes Groleau
-----------
Daily Hoax: http://www.snopes2.com/cgi-bin/random/random.asp
 
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Wes Groleau
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      09-13-2008, 07:39 PM
Josh McKee wrote:
> You can identify the specific process you have by reading the part
> number off of the processor. It should be in the form of 501-xxxx where
> xxxx denotes the processor type. For example the 440MHz processor has
> part number 501-5149. You can type the part number into Google to find
> out which one you have.


Thanks for all the helpful information!

On this one, the heatsink had a 340-4??1-01 inked or painted
but I could not read the two digits. They had rounded tops,
so 3, 8, or 0. There was a sticker lower that said 4379-05
but no 501. I googled

sun "4379-05"

and found a few pages. Most had 501- in front of the number.
None explicitly identified what the number meant as they were
mentioning it in passing while discussing something else.
However, from at least one of them, I think I deduced that
it's 300 MHz

At first glance that sounds slower than my eight-year old iMac,
_but_ since it is a 64-bit Sparc, it's more than enough for a
file/DNS/proxy server on a four host LAN.

--
Wes Groleau

Words of the Wild Wes(t) = http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW
 
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DoN. Nichols
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      09-14-2008, 01:41 AM
On 2008-09-13, Wes Groleau <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I bought an Ultra 10 for $20, no monitor or keyboard.


Good price -- but you will probably want a keyboard, unless you
set up another computer to run a terminal program and connect to serial
port 'A'. With no keyboard, it will *only* talk to serial port 'A'
(TTYA) no matter what framebuffers (graphics cards) and monitors you
have. The default settings for TTYA should be:

ttya-rts-dtr-off=false
ttya-ignore-cd=true
ttya-mode=9600,8,n,1,-

These settings are in the OBP (Open Boot Prom), and can be (and may have
been) changed. If so, you'll have to try various baud rates and other
settings until you get one which works.

The keyboard is unique to Sun -- at least with that connector
and some of the extra keys present. Especially avoid using a keyboard
labeled "Solbourne". It uses the same connector, but a different
pinout, and plugging in that keyboard will blow a non-replaceable fuse on
the system board.

Just about any Sun keyboard offered on eBay which is not marked
"USB" should work. Type 5 or type 6 would probably be the best choices.

> I see that the two 128MB RAM cards have the same socket
> 168-pin as PC-133. Are they different? Are there any
> rules about balancing sizes or using certain sockets first?


From the Sun FEH (Field Engineer's Handbook):

1. The minimum memory requirement os two DIMMS in any bank.

(The two sockets closest to the board edge are "bank 0",
the other two "bank 1"

Choices are 32, 64, 128, and 255 MB DIMMs.

> Given the CPU power of a Sparc of that era, is 256 MB
> adequate for using Solaris as merely a DNS server, web
> proxy, and fileserver? What if I used a Linux distro
> instead?


Actually -- for that, I would use OpenBSD instead. Less load on
the CPU, and it makes a great firewall using PF (Packet Filter) which
comes as part of it. But Linux would probably be less of a load than
Solaris 10 at least. (And Solaris 8 is the earliest which will run with
it.)

> Sun's sales-oriented data sheet say 440MHz processor,
> but all the Ultra 10s I've looked at so far on eBay
> say 333MHz. Did Sun change that during the Mfg.
> life of the model? Can I tell which I've got without
> actually booting it up?


There were two different families of system boards. These are
the possible barcodes on a label on the board. (Note that the '-' is
probably not present, so look for one which starts with 375, the next
four digits tell which version it is,

Board Possible CPU speed
==================================================
375-0009 300 or 330 MHz.

375-0066 333/360 MHz
375-0079 333/360/440 MHz
375-0115 360/440 MHz

CPU modules:
Ultra 5
501-4477 270 MHz
501-5039 270 MHz
Ultra 10
501-4379 300 MHz
501-5040 300 MHz
Ultra 5 & 10
501-5090 333 MHz
501-5568 333 MHz
Ultra 5
501-5148 360 MHz
Ultra 10
501-5222 360 MHz
Ultra 5
501-5740 400 MHz
501-5741 400 MHz
Ultra 10
501-5149 440 MHz

I don't see what keeps a CPU for one from working in the other
system. Anyway -- look for a barcode on the system board to identify it
(including how it was likely to have been originally shipped), and look
for a barcode on the CPU module to see how fast it is. (There were 256 K
Cache boards in the early lot, and 2 MB Cache boards in the later ones.

> I saw a motherboard on eBay which also had a picture
> on one chip on it. I assume that was the processor
> (why else would they picture that particular chip?).


Maybe they were trying to show the barcode on the CPU module?

> But mine has a piggyback board with a heatsink
> big enough to cover two such chips. Is it a dual-CPU
> enhancement?


There are two chips under the CPU module.

> Where can I find hardware docs that identify connectors
> and jumpers? I've found a couple of PDFs but they
> did not have that sort of info.


Look for the FEH pages for the system barcode which you have,
but they are not very different, and unless you need to update the FLASH
to get a more recent OPB (Open Boot Prom) installed, you are unlikely to
have to change any jumpers. It is not like a Windows box, where you
have to change jumpers to tell it how much RAM it has. These self
analyze and configure.

However -- the jumper blocks which are documented for the first
of the boards in the FEH are:
================================================== ====================
Jumper Pins Setting Description
JD1 1-2 Out Composite video synchronization
JP1 1-1 In Select PROM (default)
JP1 2-3 in Select ROMBO
JP2 1-2 in FPROM write protect (default)
JP2 2-3 In FPROM write enable
JP3 1-2 In RS-232
JP3 2-3 In RS-423 (default)
JP4 1-2 In RS-232
JP4 2-3 In RS-423 (default)
JP6 1-2 N/A Not stuffed
JP7 1-2 N/A Not stuffed
JP8 1-2 In Simba Clock Normal (default)
JP8 2-3 In Simba Clock Input Test
JP9 1-2 In Simba Clock Input Normal (default)
JP9 2-3 In Simba Clock Input Test
JP10 1-2 Out Bypass CPU in scan chain
JP10 2-3 In Include CPU in scan chain (default)
JP11 1-10 N/A Not stuffed

Misc Connectors
================================================== ==========
Conn Pins Description
J7 1-20 Asynchronous Serial Port B
J8 1-26 Parallel port
J9 1-4 CD-ROM audio
J10 1-24 ROMBO
J17 1-4 LED and soft reset switch
J18 1-4 Speaker
J19 1-3 DC fan power
J20 1-8 Unknown
J21 1-8 JTAG
J22 1-2 Not Stuffed
J23 1-1 Not Stuffed
J24 1-2 Unknown

The second board layout is pretty much the same.

Go back to the Sun site, and search for:

Sun Ultra 10 Service Manual, 805-7764

it should be downloadable in PDF format.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: <(E-Mail Removed)> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
 
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DoN. Nichols
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      09-14-2008, 02:10 AM
On 2008-09-13, Wes Groleau <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Josh McKee wrote:
>> You can identify the specific process you have by reading the part
>> number off of the processor. It should be in the form of 501-xxxx where
>> xxxx denotes the processor type. For example the 440MHz processor has
>> part number 501-5149. You can type the part number into Google to find
>> out which one you have.

>
> Thanks for all the helpful information!
>
> On this one, the heatsink had a 340-4??1-01 inked or painted
> but I could not read the two digits. They had rounded tops,
> so 3, 8, or 0. There was a sticker lower that said 4379-05
> but no 501. I googled


Hmm ... that could be the part number for the heatsink itself.
The number you want should be right by a barcode (which translates to
the same number).

And it *may* be that the barcode label is on the underside of
the CPU module. Download the service manual (or the manual for
upgrading a CPU to 440 MHz) for guidance on removing and replacing the
CPU module. The service manual is worth while having anyway. The ones
on software will probably be assuming Solaris 8, not the Solaris 10
which is the current choice.

I've noticed that the barcode numbers on the CPU modules for Sun
Blade 1000 and 2000 systems is black text and bars on an orange plastic.
I don't remember whether it went back as far as the Ultra 5 & 10. (The
Ultra 5 and 10 mostly differ in the size and format of the chassis. The
same system boards can be in either -- though a 10 is more likely to be
faster. Let's see what my Ultra-5 and 10 systems have:

Ultra-10 300 MHz,
Ultra-5 333 MHz
Ultra-10 440 MHz

so my Ultra-10s bracket the Ultra-5. :-)

> sun "4379-05"
>
> and found a few pages. Most had 501- in front of the number.
> None explicitly identified what the number meant as they were
> mentioning it in passing while discussing something else.
> However, from at least one of them, I think I deduced that
> it's 300 MHz


I believe that it should tell you when you power it up, with a
Sun keyboard connected to the system and a monitor, or with a serial
terminal connected to the 25-pin serial port, ttya. You can then stop
it from continuing to boot (assuming that it has an OS installed at all)
by (on the Sun keyboard) Holding down the "Stop" key as though it were
as "Shift" or "Control" key, and pressing the 'A' key. On a serial
terminal, you need to send a break. If it is a real serial terminal,
you should have a "Break" key (though it tends to hide on DEC VT-???
terminals. :-) If you are using a terminal emulator program, look up how
to send a break *first* because you may be in a hurry when trying to
stop a boot. :-)

> At first glance that sounds slower than my eight-year old iMac,
> _but_ since it is a 64-bit Sparc, it's more than enough for a
> file/DNS/proxy server on a four host LAN.


I think so. The 333 MHz Ultra-5 is serving as a firewall
running OpenBSD.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <(E-Mail Removed)> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
 
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Wes Groleau
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2008, 02:36 AM
DoN. Nichols wrote:
> On 2008-09-13, Wes Groleau <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Given the CPU power of a Sparc of that era, is 256 MB
>> adequate for using Solaris as merely a DNS server, web
>> proxy, and fileserver? What if I used a Linux distro
>> instead?

>
> Actually -- for that, I would use OpenBSD instead. Less load on
> the CPU, and it makes a great firewall using PF (Packet Filter) which
> comes as part of it. But Linux would probably be less of a load than
> Solaris 10 at least. (And Solaris 8 is the earliest which will run with


Well, my firewall is my router. And I'm much more familiar
with Solaris than OpenBSD, even though Solaris hasn't been
my job since 2003. So really, I truly am thinking just
DNS, web cache, and extra disk space.

--
Wes Groleau

Indefinite article
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=421
 
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Benjamin Gawert
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-14-2008, 09:59 PM
* Wes Groleau:
> I bought an Ultra 10 for $20, no monitor or keyboard.
>
> I see that the two 128MB RAM cards have the same socket
> 168-pin as PC-133. Are they different?


Yes, they are. The U10 uses standard EDO DIMMs and not SDRAM (which is
what PC133 is). While not very common in PCs EDO DIMMs were quite common
in old Pentium2/3 XEON-based servers.

> Given the CPU power of a Sparc of that era, is 256 MB
> adequate for using Solaris as merely a DNS server, web
> proxy, and fileserver?


Yes, but your expectations regarding file server performance should not
be very high. The U10 was already a low cost design when it came out.

> What if I used a Linux distro
> instead?


You basically replace an OS that perfectly supports the U10's hardware
with something that might work good enough but under the hood is more of
a mess.

> Sun's sales-oriented data sheet say 440MHz processor,
> but all the Ultra 10s I've looked at so far on eBay
> say 333MHz. Did Sun change that during the Mfg.
> life of the model?


No, they just decided that producing 440MHzs models only is silly and
thus made models with other clock speeds as well ;-)

> I saw a motherboard on eBay which also had a picture
> on one chip on it. I assume that was the processor
> (why else would they picture that particular chip?).
> But mine has a piggyback board with a heatsink
> big enough to cover two such chips. Is it a dual-CPU
> enhancement?


No, U10 is single processor only.

> Where can I find hardware docs that identify connectors
> and jumpers? I've found a couple of PDFs but they
> did not have that sort of info.


Should be in docs.sun.com

Benjamin
 
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Wes Groleau
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      09-15-2008, 01:40 AM
Benjamin Gawert wrote:
> * Wes Groleau:
>> Where can I find hardware docs that identify connectors
>> and jumpers? I've found a couple of PDFs but they
>> did not have that sort of info.

>
> Should be in docs.sun.com


Thanks. So far, the best I've found is a line drawing
of the back with labels for everything--but the lines
from the labels, instead of pointing to parts, point
into empty space to the right of the computer! :-)

But there are quite a few docs there, and I haven't
finished hunting through them.

--
Wes Groleau

In any formula, constants (especially those obtained
from handbooks) are to be treated as variables.
 
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Doug McIntyre
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      09-15-2008, 03:38 AM
Wes Groleau <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>Benjamin Gawert wrote:
>> * Wes Groleau:
>>> Where can I find hardware docs that identify connectors
>>> and jumpers? I've found a couple of PDFs but they
>>> did not have that sort of info.

>>
>> Should be in docs.sun.com


>Thanks. So far, the best I've found is a line drawing
>of the back with labels for everything--but the lines
>from the labels, instead of pointing to parts, point
>into empty space to the right of the computer! :-)


>But there are quite a few docs there, and I haven't
>finished hunting through them.



http://dlc.sun.com/pdf/805-7764-12/805-7764-12.pdf

Starting Page C-37.

Not much too it though, it is close to a PC motherboard.

 
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Jorgen Moquist
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      09-15-2008, 10:31 PM
Wes Groleau wrote:
> Josh McKee wrote:
>> You can identify the specific process you have by reading the part
>> number off of the processor. It should be in the form of 501-xxxx
>> where xxxx denotes the processor type. For example the 440MHz
>> processor has part number 501-5149. You can type the part number into
>> Google to find out which one you have.

>
> Thanks for all the helpful information!
>
> On this one, the heatsink had a 340-4??1-01 inked or painted
> but I could not read the two digits. They had rounded tops,
> so 3, 8, or 0. There was a sticker lower that said 4379-05
> but no 501. I googled
>
> sun "4379-05"
>
> and found a few pages. Most had 501- in front of the number.
> None explicitly identified what the number meant as they were
> mentioning it in passing while discussing something else.
> However, from at least one of them, I think I deduced that
> it's 300 MHz
>
> At first glance that sounds slower than my eight-year old iMac,
> _but_ since it is a 64-bit Sparc, it's more than enough for a
> file/DNS/proxy server on a four host LAN.
>


Its possible to overclock, i use a 440MHz at 480MHz, not much i know
example:
ok nvedit
0: also hidden
1: d# 480 at-speed
2:
ok nvstore
ok setenv use-nvramrc? true
ok reset-all
Resetting ...
Sun Ultra 5/10 UPA/PCI (UltraSPARC-IIi 480MHz), No Keyboard
OpenBoot 3.31, 1024 MB (50 ns) memory installed, Serial #X0678958.
Ethernet address 8:0:20:a2:f2:ax, Host ID: 80a2f2ax.
/Jorgen
 
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Jeff Wieland
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      09-18-2008, 01:53 PM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)-and-d.com> "DoN. Nichols" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>On 2008-09-13, Wes Groleau <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> Actually -- for that, I would use OpenBSD instead. Less load on
>the CPU, and it makes a great firewall using PF (Packet Filter) which
>comes as part of it. But Linux would probably be less of a load than
>Solaris 10 at least. (And Solaris 8 is the earliest which will run with
>it.)


On an Ultra-5/10, you need at least Solaris 2.5.1 HW 11/97. See
<http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/U10/U10>
Solaris 8 works well, but it's starting to get long in the
tooth. I'm running Solaris 10 on mine, with 440 Mhz
processors and 1GB of memory.

>
>> Sun's sales-oriented data sheet say 440MHz processor,
>> but all the Ultra 10s I've looked at so far on eBay
>> say 333MHz. Did Sun change that during the Mfg.
>> life of the model? Can I tell which I've got without
>> actually booting it up?

>
> There were two different families of system boards. These are
>the possible barcodes on a label on the board. (Note that the '-' is
>probably not present, so look for one which starts with 375, the next
>four digits tell which version it is,
>
>Board Possible CPU speed
>================================================= =
>375-0009 300 or 330 MHz.
>
>375-0066 333/360 MHz
>375-0079 333/360/440 MHz
>375-0115 360/440 MHz
>
> CPU modules:
> Ultra 5
>501-4477 270 MHz
>501-5039 270 MHz
> Ultra 10
>501-4379 300 MHz
>501-5040 300 MHz
> Ultra 5 & 10
>501-5090 333 MHz
>501-5568 333 MHz
> Ultra 5
>501-5148 360 MHz
> Ultra 10
>501-5222 360 MHz
> Ultra 5
>501-5740 400 MHz
>501-5741 400 MHz
> Ultra 10
>501-5149 440 MHz
>
> I don't see what keeps a CPU for one from working in the other
>system. Anyway -- look for a barcode on the system board to identify it
>(including how it was likely to have been originally shipped), and look
>for a barcode on the CPU module to see how fast it is. (There were 256 K
>Cache boards in the early lot, and 2 MB Cache boards in the later ones.


Sun doesn't "guarantee" that the faster processors will work in the
older motherboards, but if you load the latest firmware, in my
experience they will. Just keep one of the old slow modules (like a
333) around in case you have to update the firmware on an old M/B.

From my two Ultra 10's:

$ prtconf -b
name: SUNW,Ultra-5_10
model: SUNW,375-0009
banner-name: Sun Ultra 5/10 UPA/PCI (UltraSPARC-IIi 440MHz)

$ prtconf -b
name: SUNW,Ultra-5_10
model: SUNW,375-0066
banner-name: Sun Ultra 5/10 UPA/PCI (UltraSPARC-IIi 440MHz)

I also have a 375-0009 with a 400 MHz processor running Solaris 8.

The biggest difference between the 375-0009 M/B and later ones is the
on-board video memory -- the 375-0009 has what is effectively a PGX-8
with 2 MB of memory, and the later ones have an on-board PGX-24 with
4 MB.

The 400 and 440 MHz processors have the 2MB cache -- I'd go with one
of those if possible. With the latest firmware, it *is* possible to
overclock the 440's to 480 MHz, but it doesn't get you very much to do
it. I'm guessing that Sun had planned a 480 MHz module that was
never produced.
--
Jeff Wieland
 
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