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Using Thunderbird for Usenet

 
 
Roger Mills
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      05-22-2010, 02:55 PM
Having moved to a new computer, I've finally decided to bite the bullet
and get shot of Outlook Express as a newsreader - and have opted for
Thunderbird, largely because I'm using Firefox as a browser, and it's
from the same stable - and free!

Anyone know whether there's an Idiot's guide anywhere, telling ex-OE
users how to use Thunderbird for newsgroup access? There doesn't seem to
be any targetted help - the Help menu takes you to a website which seems
mainly geared towards use as an email client.

Specifically, I need to know:
- How to mark interesting threads so that they show up in red
- How to automatically treat all messages as "read" when exiting a group
- How to set the View options so that only new messages (since the last
time I read a group) are displayed

Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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BillW50
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      05-22-2010, 03:40 PM
In news:(E-Mail Removed),
Roger Mills typed on Sat, 22 May 2010 15:55:47 +0100:
> Having moved to a new computer, I've finally decided to bite the
> bullet and get shot of Outlook Express as a newsreader - and have
> opted for Thunderbird, largely because I'm using Firefox as a
> browser, and it's from the same stable - and free!
>
> Anyone know whether there's an Idiot's guide anywhere, telling ex-OE
> users how to use Thunderbird for newsgroup access? There doesn't seem
> to be any targetted help - the Help menu takes you to a website which
> seems mainly geared towards use as an email client.
>
> Specifically, I need to know:
> - How to mark interesting threads so that they show up in red
> - How to automatically treat all messages as "read" when exiting a
> group - How to set the View options so that only new messages (since
> the
> last time I read a group) are displayed
>
> Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.


Hello Roger! I have been using Thunderbird for many years and I still
like Outlook Express v6 with OE-QuoteFix far better. At least for
newsgroups. And no newsreader except OE has the "Show Replies to my
Messages" (CTRL-H) view. Which IMHO makes everything else so bad as a
newsreader. As I think this should be a feature on all newsreaders. But
I guess the other programmers just don't get it.

Thunderbird doesn't call them Watched threads like OE does. But you can
mark them with a Star. Another option is by marking them with a flag (I
think there are 5 different default type of flags). And flags you can
change the color of the header. Kind of like OE.

I am not sure if you can make a newsgroup as read when you exit. I know
you can mark it as read manually. And I remember you should be able to
show only the unread messages under TB. Btw, TB has been released to
different versions. I believe the popular ones are v1.5, v2.0, and v3.0.
And depending on which one you are using, the answers maybe different. I
actually like 2.0 the best, but I also like 1.5 too.

I think this newsgroup maybe able to help you for the questions we here
can't give you.

netscape.public.mozilla.mail-news

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3


 
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BillW50
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      05-22-2010, 07:09 PM
In news:(E-Mail Removed) o.uk,
John Rumm typed on Sat, 22 May 2010 17:40:09 +0100:
> On 22/05/2010 16:40, BillW50 wrote:
>
>> Hello Roger! I have been using Thunderbird for many years and I still
>> like Outlook Express v6 with OE-QuoteFix far better. At least for
>> newsgroups. And no newsreader except OE has the "Show Replies to my
>> Messages" (CTRL-H) view. Which IMHO makes everything else so bad as a
>> newsreader. As I think this should be a feature on all newsreaders.
>> But I guess the other programmers just don't get it.

>
> The programmers seem to "get it" just fine. However by making some of
> the filtering tools a little more flexible, they are perhaps not quite
> as simple. However they give far greater scope if you spend a little
> time learning what they can do.


Yes well I use TB 1.5, 2.0, and v3 and use the filtering tools. Even
when you are a pro at using them. None of them work as nice as OE "Show
Replies to my Messages" (CTRL-H) view. Sad isn't it?

> So, using the technique I described elsewhere (watching threads to
> which you post, and then restricting the view to watched threads) you
> get get pretty much the functionality you desire. Hitting "n" (next)
> will take you to each unread new post in a thread you have either
> started or replied to.


That is another stupid thing from TB. The key for the next unread should
be "u" and not "n". And "n" should be for the next message, read or not.
And sometimes I read with a mouse alone. And adding back, forward, next
unread, and previous unread on the toolbar isn't available for all
version of TB either. How dumb can you get?

>> Thunderbird doesn't call them Watched threads like OE does. But you
>> can

>
> <panto mode>
>
> Oh yes it does!
>
> </panto mode>


The older versions didn't call them watched. I think 3.0 now does. It
takes Mozilla many years to make one simple change to a very old
mistake. But then again Mozilla programmers love to show off how
inferior their programming abilities are. They believe in making things
as difficult as possible.

Sun is another company who likes to makes things slow, bloated, and very
difficult to use as well. And Microsoft is starting to do the same. I
guess all of the great programmers at Microsoft have already retired. I
guess nobody writes great software anymore.

>> mark them with a Star. Another option is by marking them with a flag
>> (I

>
> Or mark it as watched with a w
>
>> think there are 5 different default type of flags). And flags you can
>> change the color of the header. Kind of like OE.

>
> You can add additional flags if you want.
>
>> I am not sure if you can make a newsgroup as read when you exit. I
>> know you can mark it as read manually. And I remember you should be
>> able to show only the unread messages under TB. Btw, TB has been
>> released to different versions. I believe the popular ones are v1.5,
>> v2.0, and v3.0. And depending on which one you are using, the
>> answers maybe different. I actually like 2.0 the best, but I also
>> like 1.5 too.

>
> There are two stable releases generally 2.0.x.x and 3.0.x, three has
> some additional group options like killing a sub thread and better
> searching (if you let it index anyway). 2 is a tad faster.


V3 is the worse version of TB to date! Bloated and slow just like it's
brother called Firefox. Must be the same dang programmers. Or at least
party together or something. At least FF gets security updates. As they
don't bother with TB.

>> I think this newsgroup maybe able to help you for the questions we
>> here can't give you.
>>
>> netscape.public.mozilla.mail-news


--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3


 
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Bruce
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      05-22-2010, 07:48 PM
On Sat, 22 May 2010 15:55:47 +0100, Roger Mills <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Having moved to a new computer, I've finally decided to bite the bullet
>and get shot of Outlook Express as a newsreader - and have opted for
>Thunderbird, largely because I'm using Firefox as a browser, and it's
>from the same stable - and free!
>
>Anyone know whether there's an Idiot's guide anywhere, telling ex-OE
>users how to use Thunderbird for newsgroup access? There doesn't seem to
>be any targetted help - the Help menu takes you to a website which seems
>mainly geared towards use as an email client.
>
>Specifically, I need to know:
>- How to mark interesting threads so that they show up in red
>- How to automatically treat all messages as "read" when exiting a group
>- How to set the View options so that only new messages (since the last
>time I read a group) are displayed
>
>Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.



I have used Forte Agent for many years now. Originally there was a
stripped-down free version, but that soon changed so it has to be paid
for. But I find it incredibly intuitive to use.

Recently I looked at Thunderbird as an alternative to upgrading to the
latest version of Agent. I found it was clunky and difficult to
understand. After about an hour I gave up and happily upgraded Agent
to the current version.

While Agent must be paid for ($29.00, or slightly less than 20.00),
there is a free 30 day trial so you can see if you like it. If you
can manage with Thunderbird, that's fine, but if not, you might like
to give Agent a try.

http://www.forteinc.com/

By the way, I use Agent only for news, but you can also configure it
for email.


 
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Tim Watts
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      05-22-2010, 08:55 PM
On 22/05/10 20:48, Bruce wrote:

>
> I have used Forte Agent for many years now. Originally there was a
> stripped-down free version, but that soon changed so it has to be paid
> for. But I find it incredibly intuitive to use.
>
> Recently I looked at Thunderbird as an alternative to upgrading to the
> latest version of Agent. I found it was clunky and difficult to
> understand. After about an hour I gave up and happily upgraded Agent
> to the current version.


I used Agent about 12 years back - and it was good then too. I quite
liked it. However as I use Linux it's a bit of a non starter (never have
been arsed to fiddle with Wine).

Thunderbird isn't as good as the good bits of knode (filtering,
highlighting) but it does mean one less program open (I use it for email
too) and I like the fact it can open basic URLs too from USENET, and I
do like the "ignore subthread" open. My killfile is set to ignore
subthreads from those killed as that's usually where the flamewares
spawn and stay burning...

I must get round to understanding plugin programming - there are a few
things I'd like to tweak...


--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
 
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The Natural Philosopher
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      05-22-2010, 11:28 PM
Roger Mills wrote:
> Having moved to a new computer, I've finally decided to bite the bullet
> and get shot of Outlook Express as a newsreader - and have opted for
> Thunderbird, largely because I'm using Firefox as a browser, and it's
> from the same stable - and free!
>
> Anyone know whether there's an Idiot's guide anywhere, telling ex-OE
> users how to use Thunderbird for newsgroup access? There doesn't seem to
> be any targetted help - the Help menu takes you to a website which seems
> mainly geared towards use as an email client.
>
> Specifically, I need to know:
> - How to mark interesting threads so that they show up in red


pass.
> - How to automatically treat all messages as "read" when exiting a group


right click on newgroup in main pane and select 'mark all read'

> - How to set the View options so that only new messages (since the last
> time I read a group) are displayed
>



Try my settings, view by thread and view display unread only.


> Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.

 
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BillW50
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      05-23-2010, 02:26 AM
In news:(E-Mail Removed),
John Rumm typed on Sat, 22 May 2010 23:49:06 +0100:
> On 22/05/2010 20:09, BillW50 wrote:
>
>>> The programmers seem to "get it" just fine. However by making some
>>> of the filtering tools a little more flexible, they are perhaps not
>>> quite as simple. However they give far greater scope if you spend a
>>> little time learning what they can do.

>>
>> Yes well I use TB 1.5, 2.0, and v3 and use the filtering tools. Even
>> when you are a pro at using them. None of them work as nice as OE
>> "Show Replies to my Messages" (CTRL-H) view. Sad isn't it?

>
> Watched threads with unread works nicely for me...


I am sure, but nothing as simple as CTRL-H does. I am sure a lab rat
running through a maze that doesn't change to find food works nicely for
them too. But humans are not lab rats and we have more important things
to do to use our intelligence and time than running through mazes.

>>> So, using the technique I described elsewhere (watching threads to
>>> which you post, and then restricting the view to watched threads)
>>> you get get pretty much the functionality you desire. Hitting "n"
>>> (next) will take you to each unread new post in a thread you have
>>> either started or replied to.

>>
>> That is another stupid thing from TB. The key for the next unread
>> should be "u" and not "n". And "n" should be for the next message,
>> read or not.

>
> So change the default key bindings if it bothers you that much.


Use your head. Both new and next start with "n". That isn't good. One of
them needs to be changed. And since unread next can be remembered easily
with "u". The problem is solved. But morons at Mozilla can't be bothered
with solutions. What is wrong with most programmers? They want to treat
everybody as lab rats. I am sorry, but most people are smarter than
that. Okay one or two are not, but that is another story.

>> And sometimes I read with a mouse alone. And adding back, forward,
>> next unread, and previous unread on the toolbar isn't available for
>> all version of TB either. How dumb can you get?

>
> Dumb would be complaining that a feature you want is missing, when its
> been standard for ages, and the only reason you have not noticed is
> you are using an insecure, non supported, out of date version.


Nope, "Show Replies to my Messages" (CTRL-H) view has been missing from
Thunderbird since day one. Hopefully when TB v4 comes out they will
finally get it. Well maybe it will take until TB v6 you think?

> I bet OE 4 does not do everything that you want either, why not
> complain about that?


Before OE4 there was Microsoft Mail and News v1.0. And the only
competitor was Netscape back then. And when IE4 / OE4 came out they
buried Netscape into darkness. And if it wasn't for AOL buying them out,
there won't be any Thunderbird or Firefox today. And Mozilla has it so
easy with Thunderbird, as OE is no more. Yet they still can't match OE6
while it is sitting still. I can hire lab rats today and still beat
Mozilla. That is really sad.

>>>> Thunderbird doesn't call them Watched threads like OE does. But you
>>>> can
>>>
>>> <panto mode>
>>>
>>> Oh yes it does!
>>>
>>> </panto mode>

>>
>> The older versions didn't call them watched. I think 3.0 now does. It
>> takes Mozilla many years to make one simple change to a very old

>
> Watched threads have been about for ages...


No it hasn't!

>> mistake. But then again Mozilla programmers love to show off how
>> inferior their programming abilities are. They believe in making
>> things as difficult as possible.

>
> Na, I think they just like to tease you.


Treat smart people and newbies as lab rats, eh? I started as an
electronic engineer back in the 70's. I only programmed too since there
wasn't any programmers worth a darn back then. Well it wasn't their
entire fault, since hardware was changing like crazy back then and you
had to be an electronic engineer to keep up with it all. By the mid 80's
hardware started to stabilize and there was programmers that started
writing code better than I could. So I quit and stuck with electronic
engineering.

Now all of these people are retiring and the ones replacing them are
mostly clueless. The newer generation just doesn't get it. Don't expect
people to act like lab rats. Doing so we only create less and less
people using your product. And Netscape (aka Mozilla) are making the
very same mistakes they did a decade ago. They just really don't get it!

>> Sun is another company who likes to makes things slow, bloated, and
>> very difficult to use as well. And Microsoft is starting to do the
>> same. I

>
> Starting? They invented code bloat!


Wishfully thinking. As MS-DOS v6 was only like 6MB in size. Windows 95
was only 25MB for a full install. The OS wasn't the big thing, but
applications got bloated. I have some programs here right now that
requires at least 1GB of RAM for itself. Heck Acronis True Image itself
eats up like 170MB when it isn't even running.

>> guess all of the great programmers at Microsoft have already
>> retired. I

>
> Most of MS's better products were not written by them anyway!


Microsoft always had to fix that crap first. As those products were
worthless as is. As if they were worth anything, they didn't need
Microsoft to bale them out in the first place. Heck Apple would have
been history today if Microsoft didn't bale them out too.

>> guess nobody writes great software anymore.

>
> Depends on what you want I guess.


Great software like we used to have. I am not asking too much I don't
think.

>>> There are two stable releases generally 2.0.x.x and 3.0.x, three has
>>> some additional group options like killing a sub thread and better
>>> searching (if you let it index anyway). 2 is a tad faster.

>>
>> V3 is the worse version of TB to date! Bloated and slow just like
>> it's brother called Firefox. Must be the same dang programmers. Or
>> at least party together or something. At least FF gets security
>> updates. As they don't bother with TB.

>
> Yup, I mean TB 2 which is not even the current version has only had 24
> point releases. Remember the last update for OE? (don't think MS ever
> got round to making it quote properly)


For starters, no version of TB ever worked properly. And even if it is
true that v2 had 24 point releases, they still purposely stopped adding
more in a timely matter:

Mozilla plugs 13 holes in Firefox, retires older 2.0 browser
by Gregg Keizer, Computerworld
Dec 17, 2008 12:28 pm
http://www.macworld.com/article/137607/firefox.html

The site is gone and the Wayback Machine doesn't have a copy of it. But
I save all of this stuff. And it once said:

"Mozilla Messaging's Thunderbird e-mail client, which relies on the
Firefox rendering engine for JavaScript and other functionality, was not
patched Tuesday. It remains at Version 2.0.0.18. Until Thunderbird
catches up -- an update is expected in early January -- users can
protect themselves against the related Firefox vulnerabilities by
disabling JavaScript in the e-mail program."

It is very clear to me that Mozilla doesn't consider acThunderbird as a
serious product. As they will get around to fixing it when they get
around to it. Unfortunately they are always a day late and a dollar
short. No news there. Netscape was exactly the same way. Thus some
things never change at all.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3


 
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Bruce
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      05-23-2010, 09:33 AM
On Sat, 22 May 2010 21:55:55 +0100, Tim Watts <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On 22/05/10 20:48, Bruce wrote:
>> I have used Forte Agent for many years now. Originally there was a
>> stripped-down free version, but that soon changed so it has to be paid
>> for. But I find it incredibly intuitive to use.
>>
>> Recently I looked at Thunderbird as an alternative to upgrading to the
>> latest version of Agent. I found it was clunky and difficult to
>> understand. After about an hour I gave up and happily upgraded Agent
>> to the current version.

>
>I used Agent about 12 years back - and it was good then too. I quite
>liked it.



I think that's called "damning with faint praise".


 
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tony sayer
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-23-2010, 01:07 PM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bruce
<(E-Mail Removed)> scribeth thus
>On Sat, 22 May 2010 15:55:47 +0100, Roger Mills <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>Having moved to a new computer, I've finally decided to bite the bullet
>>and get shot of Outlook Express as a newsreader - and have opted for
>>Thunderbird, largely because I'm using Firefox as a browser, and it's
>>from the same stable - and free!
>>
>>Anyone know whether there's an Idiot's guide anywhere, telling ex-OE
>>users how to use Thunderbird for newsgroup access? There doesn't seem to
>>be any targetted help - the Help menu takes you to a website which seems
>>mainly geared towards use as an email client.
>>
>>Specifically, I need to know:
>>- How to mark interesting threads so that they show up in red
>>- How to automatically treat all messages as "read" when exiting a group
>>- How to set the View options so that only new messages (since the last
>>time I read a group) are displayed
>>
>>Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.

>
>
>I have used Forte Agent for many years now. Originally there was a
>stripped-down free version, but that soon changed so it has to be paid
>for. But I find it incredibly intuitive to use.
>
>Recently I looked at Thunderbird as an alternative to upgrading to the
>latest version of Agent. I found it was clunky and difficult to
>understand. After about an hour I gave up and happily upgraded Agent
>to the current version.
>
>While Agent must be paid for ($29.00, or slightly less than 20.00),
>there is a free 30 day trial so you can see if you like it. If you
>can manage with Thunderbird, that's fine, but if not, you might like
>to give Agent a try.
>
>http://www.forteinc.com/
>
>By the way, I use Agent only for news, but you can also configure it
>for email.
>
>


I've used Turnpike v 5.02 for years now and often wondered if there was
anything better as a news reader and can't say I've come across anything
better as yet;!.....
--
Tony Sayer

 
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Graeme
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-23-2010, 02:41 PM
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony sayer
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes

>I've used Turnpike v 5.02 for years now and often wondered if there was
>anything better as a news reader and can't say I've come across anything
>better as yet;!


Tony, I agree. However, TP will not work 'out of the box' with Windows
7, so I'm reading this thread with interest. My machine is running XP
with TP 6.06, but I suppose the time will come when a new PC will arrive
with W7.

The comments regarding news are interesting, but how about groups,
specifically Yahoo Groups. Will Thunderbird or Agent thread those like
Usenet? That is a TP feature I could not live without.

Thinking aloud, I suppose there is nothing to stop me running two or
three news readers simultaneously, just to see how each looks and
performs? Presumably, each would fetch news independently of the
others?

--
Graeme
 
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