Value of integrated graphics on mobo?

Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
quality motherboard like:

Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
etc

3D performance

BR,
C

Lem wrote:
> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc

If you need something to just show windows, it's ok, but for games, it's
a far too little. Especially when the integrated graphics is based on a
system memory, which is slower then video ram.

cheers

most onboard graphics is pretty low end a card would cost in the 10-20$
range if you could find one that slow!

Wayne


"Lem" <> wrote in message
news:94C4815DFED8391F3A2@64.62.191.202...
> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc

Lem wrote:
> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc

What do you mean with "quality"? 2D output quality? In that case, it's
hard to tell, since this depends almost entirely on the output filter on
the graphic card (or motherboard for integrated graphics). Most
motherboards though seem to have really crappy output filters (with the
exception of some intel boards IIRC). But the same is sometimes true for
cheap graphic cards unfortunately.
If you're talking about 3d performance / 3d quality, the nVidia
(nforce2) has a GF4MX integrated. Its performance is about in the middle
between a 64bit GF4MX (GF4MX420, often GF4MX440SE) and a 128bit GF4MX
(GF4MX440) - this is only true if you use the board in dual-channel ram
mode, otherwise the performance will be below a GF4MX420. This is a DX7
class chip (no pixel/vertex shaders, T&L).
The Via boards with integrated graphic today use AFAIK all a "Unichrome"
graphic core - basically a Savage4 derivative, about as fast as a TNT2.
So to beat the integrated Via solutions, a radeon 7000 will do (which,
btw, is also available integrated on some boards, with the name radeon
igp 340 and similar).
To easily beat the nforce2, you'd need a bit more, GF4MX440, GFFX 5200
(but only the 128bit versions will be faster!), Radeon 9200 (not the SE
with its 64bit memory interface!).

Roland

Maciek K. wrote:

> Lem wrote:
>> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
>> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
>> quality motherboard like:
>>
>> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
>> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
>> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
>> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)

EPoX 8RGMI - dual head - I've just ordered one

>> etc
>
> If you need something to just show windows, it's ok, but for games, it's
> a far too little. Especially when the integrated graphics is based on a
> system memory, which is slower then video ram.
>
> cheers

Err, I doubt you have used them.

The latest ones support fast ram. For nForce, the graphics controller is
integrated into the northbridge to reduce memory latency. There is no "ram
bottleneck".

The other advantage is the nvidia linux drivers will get the graphics/sound
lan all working with a single easy driver install.

The bottom line is tht you get "useable" graphics for little more than the
cost of a regular motherboard. And you can alwys install an AGP card if you
want "state of the art".


gtoomey

> So almost any card costing upwards of $30 (or £20) would be better
> than what is on a mobo? Is that generally a correct understanding?

They are fine for 2d and are awful at 3d gaming.

So if you are going to play games quite a bit get a separate card.

If you arent playing games get an on-board solution.
If you arent playing games now but may in the future get an onboard
solution and then get the latest/greatest choice of current cards when
you want them.

Lem wrote:

> Roland Scheidegger <> wrote:
>

>
> I am not too sure where filters fit into graphics but, essentially,
> I am thinking of getting answers to questions like this:
>
> Would the graphics integrated into on a half-decent modern mobo be
> as good as my old graphics card ... nVidia GeForce2 MX/MX 400 32MB?
>
> BTW is that card the same as what you call "nforce2"?

I have a Leadtek Geforce2 GTS about 3yo, and an Asus*A7N8X-VM has better
graphics.

gtoomey

> "Lem" <> wrote in message
>
>> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics
>> card offering the same sort of quality as the integrated
>> graphics on a quality motherboard like:
>>
>> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
>> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
>> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
>> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)


"wayne" <dont-> wrote:
>
> most onboard graphics is pretty low end a card would cost in
> the 10-20$ range if you could find one that slow!
>

So almost any card costing upwards of $30 (or £20) would be better
than what is on a mobo? Is that generally a correct understanding?

Roland Scheidegger <> wrote:

>> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics
>> card offering the same sort of quality as the integrated
>> graphics on a quality motherboard like:
>>
>> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
>> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
>> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
>> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
>> etc
>
> What do you mean with "quality"? 2D output quality?

Thanks for posting. I think I didn't make my use of the word
"quality" clear. I mean to refer to the integrated graphics on a
decent (quality) motherboard as opposed to the integrated graphics
on a very cheap budget motherboard.


> In that
> case, it's hard to tell, since this depends almost entirely on
> the output filter on the graphic card (or motherboard for
> integrated graphics). Most motherboards though seem to have
> really crappy output filters (with the exception of some intel
> boards IIRC). But the same is sometimes true for cheap graphic
> cards unfortunately.

I am not too sure where filters fit into graphics but, essentially,
I am thinking of getting answers to questions like this:

Would the graphics integrated into on a half-decent modern mobo be
as good as my old graphics card ... nVidia GeForce2 MX/MX 400 32MB?

BTW is that card the same as what you call "nforce2"?