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Windows 98 48-bit LBA support with VIA or SiS drivers?

 
 
larrymoencurly
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      06-02-2004, 04:58 AM
Do the Windows 98xx drivers provided by VIA and SiS for their chipsets
provide 48-bit LBA support the way the Intel Application Accelerator
and Promise drivers do? My BIOSes have 48-bit LBA support.
 
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kony
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      06-02-2004, 07:04 AM
On 1 Jun 2004 21:58:04 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (larrymoencurly)
wrote:

>Do the Windows 98xx drivers provided by VIA and SiS for their chipsets
>provide 48-bit LBA support the way the Intel Application Accelerator
>and Promise drivers do? My BIOSes have 48-bit LBA support.


I know that Via's do and thought that Sis's do as well but I can't be
certain that I've tried a large drive on Win9x with a Sis chipset board.

Win98SE can see/use HDD > 128 "true" GB, but scandisk won't work
(generates error message but gently, not a bluescreen/crash), maybe not
Disk Defrag either?... don't remember. 3rd party replacements by
Norton/Symantec (confirmed working) or "probably" Network
Associates/McAfee can be used instead. FDISK may need percentages of
capacity specified instead of actual sizes though my memory of that is a
bit vague.

 
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larrymoencurly
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      06-02-2004, 04:46 PM
kony <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>. ..

> I know that Via's do and thought that Sis's do as well but I
> can't be certain that I've tried a large drive on Win9x with
> a Sis chipset board.


I'm going to try writing all over this drive beyond 137GB to see if I
can wreck the boot partition. But I'll be disappointed if I have to
use a Promise card and its Windows driver -- I thought that only
obsolete hardware was supposed to need them with big drives.
 
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Tod
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      06-03-2004, 05:21 AM
Hard drive size is really more limited (>137GB) by motherboard bios.
As long as the motherboard bios has 48-bit support, Windows 98 should not
have any problems.

"larrymoencurly" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Do the Windows 98xx drivers provided by VIA and SiS for their chipsets
> provide 48-bit LBA support the way the Intel Application Accelerator
> and Promise drivers do? My BIOSes have 48-bit LBA support.



 
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Stacey
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      06-04-2004, 06:16 AM
larrymoencurly wrote:

> Do the Windows 98xx drivers provided by VIA and SiS for their chipsets
> provide 48-bit LBA support the way the Intel Application Accelerator
> and Promise drivers do? My BIOSes have 48-bit LBA support.


If the bios can deal with the size of the drive, the IDE controller will as
well.

--

Stacey
 
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larrymoencurly
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      06-04-2004, 11:01 AM
"Tod" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<Dzyvc.38751$eY2.11585@attbi_s02>...

> Hard drive size is really more limited (>137GB) by motherboard
> bios. As long as the motherboard bios has 48-bit support,
> Windows 98 should not have any problems.


But I'm using really old Windows 98SE, and www.48bitlba.com says
anything older than Windows 2000 won't handle > 137GB without a
Windows driver, and they mention the Intel Applications Accelerator
for mobos with Intel chipsets (only 810 and newer -- no 440BX support
) and PCI IDE cards like the ones from Promise.
 
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larrymoencurly
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      06-04-2004, 11:38 AM
Stacey <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...

> > Do the Windows 98xx drivers provided by VIA and SiS for their
> > chipsets provide 48-bit LBA support the way the Intel
> > Application Accelerator and Promise drivers do? My BIOSes
> > have 48-bit LBA support.

>
> If the bios can deal with the size of the drive, the IDE
> controller will as well.


Have you actually tried it with a version of Windows older than Win2K?
They don't like anything > 137GB unless a driver program is
installed, even though the file system is supposed to be able to
handle far more than that.
 
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kony
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      06-04-2004, 12:05 PM
On 2 Jun 2004 09:46:04 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (larrymoencurly)
wrote:

>kony <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>. ..
>
>> I know that Via's do and thought that Sis's do as well but I
>> can't be certain that I've tried a large drive on Win9x with
>> a Sis chipset board.

>
>I'm going to try writing all over this drive beyond 137GB to see if I
>can wreck the boot partition. But I'll be disappointed if I have to
>use a Promise card and its Windows driver -- I thought that only
>obsolete hardware was supposed to need them with big drives.


I've had to rethink a few options with regard to 48bit LBA.

For example, all I'd heard claimed that with the Promise Ultra cards, it'd
need be at least an Ultra 100. I plugged in a 160GB drive to an Ultra 66
with a 2.x.something bios version, installed similar-age driver, and
Win98SE sees whole drive... isn't the boot drive though, and the card's
own bios reports only 128GB but one of Promise's FAQ sections for their
Ultra 100 makes a passing mention that the Ultra 66's size misreport is
"cosmetic" or something to that effect.

Haven't had the chance to test that, it just happened that I had a couple
of leftover Ultra66 cards from back in the day when everyone was moddin'
'em into Fasttracks. Was planning on running optical drives off the Ultra
66 but strangely a couple of optical drives don't work properly attached,
they show data-only discs as audio discs, tracks and all, but work fine
when connected to motherboard integral controller instead.


 
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Tod
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      06-04-2004, 05:50 PM
What "windows driver" are they talking about ?

"larrymoencurly" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> "Tod" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

news:<Dzyvc.38751$eY2.11585@attbi_s02>...
>
> > Hard drive size is really more limited (>137GB) by motherboard
> > bios. As long as the motherboard bios has 48-bit support,
> > Windows 98 should not have any problems.

>
> But I'm using really old Windows 98SE, and www.48bitlba.com says
> anything older than Windows 2000 won't handle > 137GB without a
> Windows driver, and they mention the Intel Applications Accelerator
> for mobos with Intel chipsets (only 810 and newer -- no 440BX support
> ) and PCI IDE cards like the ones from Promise.



 
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David Maynard
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      06-05-2004, 01:27 AM
larrymoencurly wrote:
> "Tod" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<Dzyvc.38751$eY2.11585@attbi_s02>...
>
>
>>Hard drive size is really more limited (>137GB) by motherboard
>>bios. As long as the motherboard bios has 48-bit support,
>>Windows 98 should not have any problems.

>
>
> But I'm using really old Windows 98SE, and www.48bitlba.com says
> anything older than Windows 2000 won't handle > 137GB without a
> Windows driver, and they mention the Intel Applications Accelerator
> for mobos with Intel chipsets (only 810 and newer -- no 440BX support
> ) and PCI IDE cards like the ones from Promise.


Well, just saying 'driver' doesn't quite tell the story.

There's more than one thing that must support the drive for it to all come
together. First is the controller (this one is the 'secret' and more on
that later). If it's the mobo's integrated IDE interface then that means
the BIOS must support it. If it's an add-in controller then 'it' must
support larger than 137 GB drives and the BIOS is irrelevant (which is one
reason people add in IDE controller cards).

I presume you're trying to use the onboard IDE channels and that your BIOS
supports greater than 137GB drives since you've focused on Windows98SE.

While the Windows98SE FAT32 file system can support > 137GB drives,
scandisk and defrag can not. They are 16 bit programs and, as a result, are
limited to 127 GB. That is not a typo, 127GB. If, however, you got over the
other issues one could presumably use a third party defrag and scandsk
equivalent that did not have the limitation (I have not personally checked
for one so I can't say what to get although I would 'imagine' that Norton
SystemWorks would operate correctly). Seagate recommends that you partition
the drive so that none are larger than the 127GB native limit (like make
two 80GB partitions on a 160GB drive) so this is easy to work around.

Now we get to the 'secret'. The native Windows98SE ATA/IDE drivers can not
handle more than 137/127 GB, as was the case with scandisk and defrag. So,
if your oboard IDE controller uses the standard windows drivers you are out
of luck because MS has no plans whatsoever to 'upgrade' Windows98SE (or,
rather, the 'upgrade' path is to buy XP). Note that this is not a matter of
partition size that can be solved by simply making them under the 127GB
limit, as was the case with scandisk and defrag. The partition information
is simply telling the driver where it's located on the disk, and it's size,
but if the driver can't GET to that portion of the raw disk then it can't
talk to it. So the native Windows98SE IDE driver limit of 127GB is a HARD
limit.

IF, however, your motherboard has an IDE controller where they provide
their own drivers (like maybe VIA or SIS) then it depends on whether THEY
have a driver that supports > 137 GB drives (or simply use the native
windows drivers). As a note, if it's an Intel IDE earlier than the 800
series then there isn't one and they don't plan to 'upgrade' the older ones
just as MS doesn't plan to 'upgrade' Win9X.

There is, of course, the option of an add-on IDE card that would have a
suitable driver. They typically represent themselves to the system as SCSI
devices, even though the hardware interface to the drive is IDE, and
Windows has no limitation problems with SCSI.

Which then leaves FDISK, which doesn't work with drives over 64GB (FORMAT
displays incorrectly over 64GB but formats correctly nonetheless). MS has a
'fix' for FDISK here...

http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;263044

But that does not allow greater > 137GB partitions nor does it work with >
137 GB drives, or so MS says. You'd need a third party partitioning package
for that (perhaps the drive's prep program that came with it).

Since you say you have a BX chipset the solution is to either upgrade to
WindowsXP or buy a third party add-on IDE card that supports > 137 GB
drives and then partition the drive with multiple < 127GB partitions.

 
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Windows 98 48-bit LBA support with VIA or SiS drivers? larrymoencurly ECS 14 06-12-2004 02:24 PM


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