At Wit's end with OSX crashes on a new G5

Gentleman:

I bought a G5 sp 1.8 in May and I'm having real stability issues.
Finder and application lock-ups from everything including Text Edit and
Activity Monitor.

Generally my set up includes an Admin account and my own User account.

Additional remarks: I'm sticking with 10.39 and CS 1 to avoid
additional teething and diagnostic issues between Tiger and CS 2.

1) My installed software base

Adobe CS 1 and Acro 6 (with updates)
BBEdit
Acro 7 (testing)
Quicktime 7 (demo)
IWork (demo)
Stuffit 8
Roxio Toast
ITunes 4.9


2) On the weekend I reverted to 10.39.
I reformatted the Raptor boot drive.
My install discs have 10.3.7 and so there were 17 updates and several
restarts required. I downloaded each of these updates and ran them from
the hard drive. After each of them, I ran disc utility repair
permissions.

3) Symptoms
Application and finder lock ups even with things like Text Edit and
Activity monitor.

Log samples:
(Log) 2005-07-04 09:34:55.700 Activity Monitor[391] ERROR: unable to
compute major/minor units

(Finder Crash log): Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000239


4) Additional hardware:
-Raptor drive 36 gig for boot
-In addition to the base Apple-branded RAM, I have some additional
Kingston RAM for a total of 1.25 gigs. I have tested the RAM in single
user mode and the RAM checks out.
-Original Apple 16 meg video card (from a B&W G3) in a PCI slot to
drive a second monitor.


5) General comments
No additional fonts
This happens with multiple users. (Ie in my set up I have my user
account (non-admin) and the administrative account (admin access). My
strange quits have been happening with my installs of Tiger and
Panther. (NB I am sticking with Panther for the time being because I
just bought this G5 and can't afford Adobe CS 2.)


6) The Apple suggestion to go to
Go to Users/Your_Name/Library/Preferences and trash the files:
- com.apple.ATS.plist
- com.apple.BezelServices.plist



HELP. I can't do any work with the random crashes and application hangs.


Samples from Crash Logs

1) Command: iSightAudioAssistant
Path:
/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/HAL/iSightAudio.plugin/Contents/MacOS/iSightAudi
oAssistant
Version: ??? (???)
PID: 558
Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000007

2) Command: loginwindow
Path:
/System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow
Version: 3.6 (3.6)
PID: 486
Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0xbf7fffc0


3) Current Finder Crash log appended.
**********
Date/Time: 2005-07-03 10:52:32 -0400
OS Version: 10.3.9 (Build 7W98)
Report Version: 2

Command: Finder
Path: /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/Finder
Version: 10.3.2 (10.3.2)
PID: 1155
Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000239

Thread 0 Crashed:
0 com.apple.finder 0x001dd5b4 0x1000 + 0x1dc5b4
1 com.apple.finder 0x00113bb8 0x1000 + 0x112bb8
2 com.apple.finder 0x0011789c 0x1000 + 0x11689c
3 com.apple.finder 0x001175f0 0x1000 + 0x1165f0
4 com.apple.finder 0x00194ea8 0x1000 + 0x193ea8
5 com.apple.finder 0x0018e1d0 0x1000 + 0x18d1d0
6 com.apple.finder 0x0005efe8 0x1000 + 0x5dfe8
7 com.apple.finder 0x0005b384 0x1000 + 0x5a384
8 com.apple.finder 0x0005b120 0x1000 + 0x5a120
9 com.apple.finder 0x0005ad28 0x1000 + 0x59d28
10 com.apple.finder 0x0005aa1c 0x1000 + 0x59a1c
11 com.apple.finder 0x0000f954 0x1000 + 0xe954
12 com.apple.finder 0x0000dad0 0x1000 + 0xcad0
13 com.apple.finder 0x0000a078 0x1000 + 0x9078
14 com.apple.finder 0x0000ca54 0x1000 + 0xba54
15 <<00000000>> 0x92881fa0 0 + 0x92881fa0
16 <<00000000>> 0x92882214 0 + 0x92882214
17 <<00000000>> 0x928946bc 0 + 0x928946bc
18 <<00000000>> 0x928a2d3c 0 + 0x928a2d3c
19 <<00000000>> 0x929c3524 0 + 0x929c3524
20 <<00000000>> 0x92892c5c 0 + 0x92892c5c
21 <<00000000>> 0x9288205c 0 + 0x9288205c
22 <<00000000>> 0x92882214 0 + 0x92882214
23 <<00000000>> 0x928946bc 0 + 0x928946bc
24 <<00000000>> 0x928985d8 0 + 0x928985d8
25 <<00000000>> 0x928b57e4 0 + 0x928b57e4
26 <<00000000>> 0x928ab680 0 + 0x928ab680
27 com.apple.finder 0x00035630 0x1000 + 0x34630
28 com.apple.finder 0x00033f28 0x1000 + 0x32f28
29 com.apple.finder 0x00032fd4 0x1000 + 0x31fd4
30 com.apple.finder 0x00032e48 0x1000 + 0x31e48

Thread 1:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007878 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900073f8 mach_msg + 0x38
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9004eaa8 thread_suspend + 0x5c

Thread 2:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90018e18
semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 0x8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000e9d4 _pthread_cond_wait +
0x268
2 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x902da570 TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon
+ 0xb0
3 <<00000000>> 0x99012440 0 + 0x99012440
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024910 _pthread_body + 0x28

Thread 3:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90007878 mach_msg_trap + 0x8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900073f8 mach_msg + 0x38
2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901c16e0 __CFRunLoopRun + 0x350
3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901c5e6c CFRunLoopRunSpecific +
0x148
4 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9022f32c CFRunLoopRun + 0x34
5 com.apple.SearchEngine 0x86d37b24 SEMessageHandlerRun +
0x1d4
6 com.apple.SearchEngine 0x86d3793c SEEventLoopRun + 0x80
7 com.apple.SearchEngine 0x86d37858 ThreadEntryInternal +
0x58
8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024910 _pthread_body + 0x28

Thread 4:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90018e18
semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 0x8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000e9d4 _pthread_cond_wait +
0x268
2 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x902c5a50 MPWaitOnQueue + 0xe0
3 <<00000000>> 0x90948e7c 0 + 0x90948e7c
4 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x902f6b90 PrivateMPEntryPoint +
0x4c
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024910 _pthread_body + 0x28

Thread 5:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90018e18
semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 0x8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000e9d4 _pthread_cond_wait +
0x268
2 com.apple.finder 0x00075220 0x1000 + 0x74220
3 com.apple.finder 0x00220d28 0x1000 + 0x21fd28
4 com.apple.finder 0x00074fa0 0x1000 + 0x73fa0
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024910 _pthread_body + 0x28

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x001dd5b4 srr1: 0x0200f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
cr: 0x24022224 xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x000bcd58 ctr: 0x902b2fbc
r0: 0x000bcd48 r1: 0xbfffee70 r2: 0xa094cbe8 r3: 0xbfffeed0
r4: 0x00000235 r5: 0xbfffeee0 r6: 0x0000000c r7: 0x00000006
r8: 0x01a0fa00 r9: 0x00000000 r10: 0x00000101 r11: 0xa0940514
r12: 0x902b2fbc r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x00000000 r17: 0x00000000 r18: 0x00000000 r19: 0x00000000
r20: 0x00000002 r21: 0x00000000 r22: 0x066fb860 r23: 0x0662e4d0
r24: 0x00000001 r25: 0xbffff150 r26: 0x0188c660 r27: 0x00000000
r28: 0xbfffeee0 r29: 0x0188c648 r30: 0x066dac00 r31: 0x066dabfc

Binary Images Description:
0x1000 - 0x29ffff com.apple.finder 10.3.2
/System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/Finder
0x5ec000 - 0x5eefff com.apple.textencoding.unicode 1.6.4
/System/Library/TextEncodings/Unicode
Encodings.bundle/Contents/MacOS/Unicode Encodings
0x1766000 - 0x1767806 Adobe Unit Types PEF binary: Adobe Unit Types
0x177f000 - 0x1781fff com.apple.PDFImporter 1.3.1 (???)
/System/Library/Components/PDFImporter.component/Contents/MacOS/PDFImpor
ter
0x17e6000 - 0x17e6fff com.apple.osax.digihub 1.0
/System/Library/ScriptingAdditions/Digital Hub
Scripting.osax/Contents/MacOS/Digital Hub Scripting
0x4d6a000 - 0x4d6efff com.apple.FolderActionsMenu 1.2.1
/System/Library/Contextual Menu
Items/FolderActionsMenu.plugin/Contents/MacOS/FolderActionsMenu
0x564b000 - 0x5655fff com.roxio.ToastItPlugin ToastItPlugIn version
1.0 (1.0) /Users/administratoradmin/Library/Contextual Menu
Items/ToastIt.plugin/Contents/MacOS/ToastIt
0x5722000 - 0x5754fff com.apple.osax.standardadditions 1.9.4 (???)
/System/Library/ScriptingAdditions/StandardAdditions.osax/Contents/MacOS
/StandardAdditions
0x576a000 - 0x5772fff com.apple.plugin.filesearch 2.0
/System/Library/Find/PlugIns/FileSearchPlugIn.bundle/Contents/MacOS/File
SearchPlugIn
0x580b000 - 0x5837c3b StuffItCMúbÄ PEF binary: StuffItCMúbÄ
0x5872000 - 0x5877f03 freeze PEF binary: freeze
0x59a0e30 - 0x59a0f03 CFMPriv_CommonPanels PEF binary:
CFMPriv_CommonPanels
0x59a0fd0 - 0x59a108b CFMPriv_Help PEF binary: CFMPriv_Help
0x59a1090 - 0x59a115a CFMPriv_HIToolbox PEF binary:
CFMPriv_HIToolbox
0x59a92f0 - 0x59a93a2 CFMPriv_CoreFoundation PEF binary:
CFMPriv_CoreFoundation
0x59aa410 - 0x59aa4e6 CFMPriv_HTMLRenderingõ“Pö
* PEF binary: CFMPriv_HTMLRenderingõ“Pö
*
0x59aa550 - 0x59aa623 CFMPriv_ImageCapture PEF binary:
CFMPriv_ImageCapture
0x59aa6a0 - 0x59aa785 CFMPriv_NavigationServices PEF binary:
CFMPriv_NavigationServices
0x59aa7f0 - 0x59aa8c6 CFMPriv_OpenScripting•MacBLib PEF binary:
CFMPriv_OpenScripting•MacBLib
0x59aa990 - 0x59aaa4e CFMPriv_Print PEF binary: CFMPriv_Print
0x59aaa60 - 0x59aab2d CFMPriv_SecurityHI PEF binary:
CFMPriv_SecurityHI
0x59aaba0 - 0x59aac82 CFMPriv_SpeechRecognition PEF binary:
CFMPriv_SpeechRecognition
0x59aacf0 - 0x59aadc3 CFMPriv_CarbonCore PEF binary:
CFMPriv_CarbonCore
0x59aae40 - 0x59aaf13 CFMPriv_OSServices PEF binary:
CFMPriv_OSServices
0x59aaff0 - 0x59ab0b2 CFMPriv_AE PEF binary: CFMPriv_AE
0x59ab0c0 - 0x59ab185 CFMPriv_ATS PEF binary: CFMPriv_ATS
0x59ab200 - 0x59ab2d7 CFMPriv_ColorSync PEF binary:
CFMPriv_ColorSync
0x59ab360 - 0x59ab443 CFMPriv_FindByContentö£Ýö‚* PEF binary:
CFMPriv_FindByContentö£Ýö‚*
0x59ab4c0 - 0x59ab59a CFMPriv_HIServices PEF binary:
CFMPriv_HIServices
0x59ab610 - 0x59ab6f0 CFMPriv_LangAnalysis PEF binary:
CFMPriv_LangAnalysis
0x59ab780 - 0x59ab866 CFMPriv_LaunchServices PEF binary:
CFMPriv_LaunchServices
0x59ab940 - 0x59aba17 CFMPriv_PrintCore PEF binary:
CFMPriv_PrintCore
0x59aba20 - 0x59abae2 CFMPriv_QD PEF binary: CFMPriv_QD
0x59abbe0 - 0x59abcc9 CFMPriv_SpeechSynthesis PEF binary:
CFMPriv_SpeechSynthesis
0x59be0b0 - 0x59be127 CFMPriv_System PEF binary: CFMPriv_System
0x59be3d0 - 0x59be4a0 CFMPriv_CarbonSound PEF binary:
CFMPriv_CarbonSound
0x5d1e000 - 0x5d699db CarbonLibpwpc PEF binary: CarbonLibpwpc
0x5d85000 - 0x5da13d4 apple PEF binary: apple
0x6534000 - 0x659dfff com.apple.AppleIntermediateCodec 1.0.1 (124)
/Library/QuickTime/AppleIntermediateCodec.component/Contents/MacOS/Apple
IntermediateCodec
0x65b2000 - 0x65d72c6 arc{ PEF binary: arc{
0x65d8000 - 0x65f9480 arj{ PEF binary: arj{
0x65fa000 - 0x65ff158 pack PEF binary: pack
0x67fe000 - 0x689c8d0 StuffItEngineSDKLib PEF binary:
StuffItEngineSDKLib
0x68a3060 - 0x68d32a6 SupportLib PEF binary: SupportLib
0x68d32b0 - 0x695e27e StuffItCore PEF binary: StuffItCore
0x695f000 - 0x6980ceb binhex PEF binary: binhex
0x6981000 - 0x6998900 btoa PEF binary: btoa
0x6999000 - 0x69c6009 bz2{ PEF binary: bz2{
0x69c7000 - 0x69f07cf cab´ PEF binary: cab´
0x69f1000 - 0x6a1505b compress PEF binary: compress
0x6a1e000 - 0x6a3e8d3 cptõ PEF binary: cptõ
0x6a47000 - 0x6a7a822 gz5{ PEF binary: gz5{
0x6a86000 - 0x6ab6eec lha{ PEF binary: lha{
0x6ac2000 - 0x6adf6c8 macbin PEF binary: macbin
0x6ae7000 - 0x6b06c28 mime PEF binary: mime
0x6b0e000 - 0x6b2e5c7 pf5{ PEF binary: pf5{
0x6b37000 - 0x6b7787f rar{ PEF binary: rar{
0x6b86000 - 0x6b8c6ab scoã PEF binary: scoã
0x6b8d000 - 0x6c2a86c sit{ PEF binary: sit{
0x6c5d000 - 0x6c833cf sitseg PEF binary: sitseg
0x6c8d000 - 0x6de3001 sitx PEF binary: sitx
0x6eec000 - 0x6f1bcd2 tar{ PEF binary: tar{
0x6f27000 - 0x6f440f6 uuï PEF binary: uuï
0x6f4c000 - 0x6f73c45 yenc PEF binary: yenc
0x6f7d000 - 0x6ffd203 zip{ PEF binary: zip{
0x80830000 - 0x8090efff libxml2.2.dylib /usr/lib/libxml2.2.dylib
0x80ceb000 - 0x80d2efff com.apple.QuickTimeFireWireDV.component 7.0.1
/System/Library/QuickTime/QuickTimeFirewireDV.component/Contents/MacOS/Q
uickTimeFireWireDV
0x8133c000 - 0x81348fff com.apple.agl 2.5 (AGL-2.5)
/System/Library/Frameworks/AGL.framework/Versions/A/AGL
0x85aa0000 - 0x85af6fff XQuery
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/XQuery.framework/Versions/A/XQuery
0x86d20000 - 0x86d75fff com.apple.SearchEngine 1.0.5
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/SearchEngine.framework/Versions/A/Sear
chEngine
0x87b40000 - 0x87b7bfff com.apple.AppleShareClientCore 1.3.2
/System/Library/Frameworks/AppleShareClientCore.framework/Versions/A/App
leShareClientCore
0x88f90000 - 0x89059fff com.apple.PowerPlant 1.0.3
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/PowerPlant.framework/Versions/A/PowerP
lant
0x89ca0000 - 0x89cbcfff com.apple.AppleShareClient 1.3.2
/System/Library/Frameworks/AppleShareClient.framework/Versions/A/AppleSh
areClient
0x8a0b0000 - 0x8a1f4fff libCMaps.A.dylib
/System/Library//Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Fra
meworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Resources/libCMaps.A.dylib
0x8fe00000 - 0x8fe4ffff dyld /usr/lib/dyld
0x90000000 - 0x9014ffff libSystem.B.dylib /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib
0x901c0000 - 0x9026dfff com.apple.CoreFoundation 6.3.7 (299.35)
/System/Library/Frameworks/CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFound
ation
0x902b0000 - 0x90529fff com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 10.3.7
/System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore

--
Remove SPAM to reply.

On 2005-07-04, QD <> wrote:
> -In addition to the base Apple-branded RAM, I have some additional
> Kingston RAM for a total of 1.25 gigs. I have tested the RAM in single
> user mode and the RAM checks out.

Long before this part of your post I was saying to myself "bad ram".

Memory tests are far from definitive. I strongly suggest you remove the
Kingston ram entirely. If your problems go away, which I have a hunch
they will, you'll know the cause. I had vaguely similar symptoms on a
12" PB with added Kingston ram. Now it has Crucial ram and it works
fine.

If the problems don't go away with the third-party ram removed, you
might have a bad motherboard. You should contact Apple in that case.

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:26:55 -0400, QD wrote
(in article <040720051026554538% >):

> I bought a G5 sp 1.8 in May and I'm having real stability issues.
> Finder and application lock-ups from everything including Text Edit and
> Activity Monitor.
>
> Generally my set up includes an Admin account and my own User account.

You don't mention if the lockups happen in both accounts, if they don't,
then try setting up a new user account and see what happens.

Also, you don't mention if the lockups are simple application lockup or
full blown kernel panic.

Personally, the way I go about isolating the problem:

1 - Remove all non Apple RAM
2 - Remove the additional video card (doesn't the original
card support 2 monitors? Why use an outdated card?)
3 - Detach any additional USB hardware.

Test run the system with the Admin account. I've seen some of Adobe's
apps get funky when running in a non-admin account previously.

If the system exhibits the same problems with the above setup then
contacting apple about the issue would be a must. If it doesn't then I
would run it in a non-admin account and see what happens.

Then if no problems occur, start adding hardware one at a time.

It takes a lot of patience to do the above, but considering the problems
you're mentioning, it's your best course of action.

In article <>, John Drako
<> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:26:55 -0400, QD wrote
> (in article <040720051026554538% >):
>
> > I bought a G5 sp 1.8 in May and I'm having real stability issues.
> > Finder and application lock-ups from everything including Text Edit and
> > Activity Monitor.
> >
> > Generally my set up includes an Admin account and my own User account.
>
> You don't mention if the lockups happen in both accounts, if they don't,
> then try setting up a new user account and see what happens.

A foolish oversight. Yes, they do. In fact, I've flipped over to my
Admin account from my user account (hard to do when the User Switching
portion of the Finder is the last thing to get unstuck when recovering
from a finder freeze) to find that something like Activity Monitor has
become paralyzed.


>
> Also, you don't mention if the lockups are simple application lockup or
> full blown kernel panic.
>
> Personally, the way I go about isolating the problem:
>
> 1 - Remove all non Apple RAM
Done.
> 2 - Remove the additional video card (doesn't the original
> card support 2 monitors? Why use an outdated card?)
Well, I do have it. It's paid for. Buffering in PS and AI is a little
snappier with all 64 megs dedicated to the main monitor.

Still. Removed.

> 3 - Detach any additional USB hardware.
Done.


> Test run the system with the Admin account. I've seen some of Adobe's
> apps get funky when running in a non-admin account previously.

I've not heard that. I'm not arguing, but I'd find it strange that such
a major app would have fundamental issues that.
>
> If the system exhibits the same problems with the above setup then
> contacting apple about the issue would be a must. If it doesn't then I
> would run it in a non-admin account and see what happens.
>
> Then if no problems occur, start adding hardware one at a time.
>
> It takes a lot of patience to do the above, but considering the problems
> you're mentioning, it's your best course of action.

Thanks. Last thing I should have mentioned. I've spent the last week
futzing about with Tiger and experienced the same issues as I am with
10.3.9. Moreover, I am not upgrading to Tiger even though Apple sent me
a copy, because I am using CS 1.

QD
>

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:13:17 -0400, John Drako wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:26:55 -0400, QD wrote
> (in article <040720051026554538% >):

> Personally, the way I go about isolating the problem:

> 1 - Remove all non Apple RAM
> 2 - Remove the additional video card (doesn't the original
> card support 2 monitors? Why use an outdated card?)
> 3 - Detach any additional USB hardware.

Don't rule out the possibility that the Apple RAM might be the problem.
It happened to me. If you have any additional RAM, do some swapping.


--
Dave Seaman
Judge Yohn's mistakes revealed in Mumia Abu-Jamal ruling.
<http://www.commoncouragepress.com/index.cfm?action=book&bookid=228>

Dave Seaman <> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:13:17 -0400, John Drako wrote:
> > On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:26:55 -0400, QD wrote
> > (in article <040720051026554538% >):
>
> > Personally, the way I go about isolating the problem:
>
> > 1 - Remove all non Apple RAM
> > 2 - Remove the additional video card (doesn't the original
> > card support 2 monitors? Why use an outdated card?)
> > 3 - Detach any additional USB hardware.
>
> Don't rule out the possibility that the Apple RAM might be the problem.
> It happened to me. If you have any additional RAM, do some swapping.

I was thinking about this, and trying to work out how you'd get 1.25Gb
of RAM in a G5. You have to fit the modules in pairs for a start, and
they have to be in matching slots as well.

Make sure you have the RAM installed in matched pairs, and also in the
correct RAM slots. They have to fit into the slots in the mirror image
opposite slot -

You have slots thus: 4321 1234 (albeit vertically in the G5).

You fit the first pair into slots 1, and then 2 and so on.

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/...tts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

Yep.

Used the hardware disc with all tests enabled and the machine passed
without a hitch, this included the RAM. Then I loaded the RAM tester in
single user mode and let it grind away. That passed too.

This is sooooo frustrating.

QD

In article <tacitr->,
Tacit <> wrote:

> In article <040720051026554538% >,
> QD <> wrote:
>
> > -In addition to the base Apple-branded RAM, I have some additional
> > Kingston RAM for a total of 1.25 gigs. I have tested the RAM in single
> > user mode and the RAM checks out.
>
> Have you tested it by using the special Apple hardware test CD? My money
> is on bad RAM, in spite of the tests you've done so far.
>
> Your computer came with an Apple hardware Test CD; use it.

On 2005-07-04, QD <> wrote:
> This is sooooo frustrating.

I'm unclear from your responses whether or not you've done the memory
tests you should be doing: remove the third-party dimms leaving only
Apple memory, and remove the Apple memory leaving only third party
memory. Have you done these two things and if so do you still get
random errors in both cases?

If so, I think you have a motherboard problem and you should contact
Apple. All this other stuff you're fiddling with is harmless, but imo a
waste of time. Everything about the symptoms you're reporting says
"hardware" and by far the most common source of hardware problems is bad
memory, with motherboard problems a distant second.

Hi:

Last month I
a) I've run the hardware check CD
b) Run the Ram checker in single user mode

I re-installed 10.39 on the weekend and am still having issues despite
running the Disc Utilities repair between each of the updates (all 17).

c) I have pulled the second video card
d) I have pulled the third-party ram
The only thing non-stock in the machine is a Raptor drive.

Lo and behold, mere minutes ago the machine just failed to wake
properly upon sleep again. (Screen illuminates but no log-in window)
and ITunes froze earlier (as it has done repeatedly) in the afternoon.

To be suspicious, I'd could say that the downloads and installs were
corrupted and so for the sake of thoroughness, re-install 10.39 on the
stock drive and see what happens.

QD

In article <G8udnQC8bIf9BVTfRVn->, D P Schreber
<> wrote:

> On 2005-07-04, QD <> wrote:
> > This is sooooo frustrating.
>
> I'm unclear from your responses whether or not you've done the memory
> tests you should be doing: remove the third-party dimms leaving only
> Apple memory, and remove the Apple memory leaving only third party
> memory. Have you done these two things and if so do you still get
> random errors in both cases?
>
> If so, I think you have a motherboard problem and you should contact
> Apple. All this other stuff you're fiddling with is harmless, but imo a
> waste of time. Everything about the symptoms you're reporting says
> "hardware" and by far the most common source of hardware problems is bad
> memory, with motherboard problems a distant second.

In article <8YGdnU06se5N_VTfRVn->,
Troubled Tony <> wrote:

> D P Schreber <> wrote:
> > On 2005-07-04, QD <> wrote:
> > > -In addition to the base Apple-branded RAM, I have some additional
> > > Kingston RAM for a total of 1.25 gigs. I have tested the RAM in single
> > > user mode and the RAM checks out.
> >
> > Long before this part of your post I was saying to myself "bad ram".
> >
> > Memory tests are far from definitive.
>
> While part of the diagnostic sequence is to remove third-party memory,
> I'm curious on the claim that memory diagnostics are "far" from definitive.
>
> Do they not do some clever "stress" patterns to detect failures?

Memory tests do well in detecting 'hard' or reproducible faults. Faults
that are very intermittent, i.e., a memory cell, readout rail, refresh
circuit, etc., that works correctly 99.999999...% of the time are not
easy to test for.

It only takes 1 failure out of billions of operations to crash a
computer. The chance of that 1 failure occurring at the exact moment
that the memory test is testing _that_ particular memory cell for _that_
particular fault isn't very good. The longer the time between failures,
the harder the fault is to find (by testing).

In my previous life when I worked on computerized switching systems, the
memory cards themselves contained additional circuity just for testing.
We could lower voltages and extend refresh timing until bits started to
fail in an attempt to flush out a bad card. Even with this type of
stress testing, often the only way to find a memory card with an
intermittent failure (sometimes many hours or days between failures) was
to swap it with another one.

--
-Ernie-

"There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

Have you done your backup today?