120 gb is the Largest hard drive I can put in my 4550?

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Suzeann Loomis, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Suzeann Loomis

    Gus Guest

    Funny you should ask - I upgraded my 4550's C: drive to a 200 GB Maxtor
    on Tuesday. The HDD is fine, but I had problems trying to Ghost my
    Windows installation from an 80 GB HDD to the new one.
     
    Gus, Dec 5, 2003
    #21
    1. Advertisements

  2. Suzeann Loomis

    Rod Speed Guest

    All completely and utterly irrelevant to that basic value for money
    question being discussed with normal desktop systems.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 5, 2003
    #22
    1. Advertisements

  3. Suzeann Loomis

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yes, but thats a separate issue to expensive SCSI RAID5.
    Mindless wanking. And a digital photographer is
    nothing like a typical desktop system usage anyway.
    Or its just more mindless wanking that
    fools like you are stupid enough to buy.
    Yep, there are actually fools as stupid as you around.
    It is simply that anyone with a clue has noticed that IDE is the
    only thing that makes any sense on personal desktop system.
    More wanking on those last two words.
    All completely and utterly irrelevant to how much sense
    those numbers make today for personal desktop system.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 5, 2003
    #23
  4. Suzeann Loomis

    Rod Speed Guest

    That last is complete and utter drivel.
    Not even relevant for most personal desktop systems.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 5, 2003
    #24
  5. Suzeann Loomis

    Rod Speed Guest

    Some can.
    And it remains to be seen if it gets used much.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 5, 2003
    #25
  6. Suzeann Loomis

    Miro Guest

    You should be writing for Woody Allen ... except he uses the up-market
    phrase "masturbation"

    Are you sure you didnt go to a boarding school ?
     
    Miro, Dec 5, 2003
    #26
  7. Suzeann Loomis

    Clockmeister Guest

    I doubt he went to school much at all, one reason why he is trying to blind
    us all with his boring and often inaccurate rhetoric that he uses to try to
    cover up the fact that Rod is a sexually frustrated compulsive masturbator
    that can't get it up without the use of sexual aids like Viagra.
     
    Clockmeister, Dec 5, 2003
    #27
  8. Now, now....
    We are talking about hard disks not floppy disks.

    Rod just thinks "personal computer" and is in a box of thought. He can't get out. He can't
    see the trees through the forest.

    He seems to forget Dell makes Enterprise solutions not just home computer products.
    He obviously never worked for a VAR or for a Fortune 100 IT group.

    Dave :)


    |
    | | >
    | > | > >
    | > | > > >
    | > > > | > > > > In article <iAxzb.6666$>,
    | > > > > >| > > > > >| | > > > > >| >
    | > > > > >| > Go RAID 5 and SCSI and you will not have the artificial
    | barriers
    | > > > > >| > of IDE hard disk controllers. Plus you a very reliable and
    | very
    | > > > > >| > fast disk sub-system.
    | > > > > >|
    | > > > > >| That's ridiculous. A $900 computer and $1500 worth of disk.
    | > > > > >| 250GB works fine in a 4550.
    | > > > > >
    | > > > > >Except...
    | > > > > >
    | > > > > >You are not taking into account; the importance of the data, the
    | > > > reliability
    | > > > > > factor and the sheer speed that RAID 5 provides.
    | > > > >
    | > > > > I can understand your enthusiasm for a RAID system that provides
    | data
    | > > > > redundancy, but do you need to run a SCSI system to do this?
    | > > > >
    | > > > > I have the impression from comments elsewhere in recent times that
    | > > > > modern IDE drives are perfectly adequate and SCSI is quite simply
    | > > > > over-priced, perhaps even over-rated, in comparison these days?
    | > >
    | > > > Lots of photographers run 100's of gigs and there
    | > > > is nothing they can do to keep it smaller. Digital Pro
    | > > > photography has been one application for RAID systems.
    | > >
    | > > Yes, but thats a separate issue to expensive SCSI RAID5.
    | > >
    | > > > Only a very elite number of IDE models have "enterprise" tags
    | > >
    | > > Mindless wanking. And a digital photographer is
    | > > nothing like a typical desktop system usage anyway.
    | > >
    | > > > - which means they are as close to bullet-proof
    | > > > as an IDE drive can be in 2003.
    | > >
    | > > Or its just more mindless wanking that
    | > > fools like you are stupid enough to buy.
    | > >
    | > > > Enterprise drives are nearly the same
    | > > > cost as decent SCSI drives anyhow.
    | > >
    | > > Yep, there are actually fools as stupid as you around.
    | > >
    | > > > It is simply that IDE works on more standard
    | > > > and less expensive motherboards.
    | > >
    | > > It is simply that anyone with a clue has noticed that IDE is the
    | > > only thing that makes any sense on personal desktop system.
    | > >
    | > > > SATA is another thing to look at. SATA Raid
    | > > > is now making a strong appearance.
    | > >
    | > > More wanking on those last two words.
    | > >
    | > > > As for the HD being more expensive than PC ......
    | > > > it used to be the other way around and back then the
    | > > > machines were nowhere as impressive as they are now.
    | > >
    | > > All completely and utterly irrelevant to how much sense
    | > > those numbers make today for personal desktop system.
    | > >
    | >
    | > You should be writing for Woody Allen ... except he uses the up-market
    | > phrase "masturbation"
    | >
    | > Are you sure you didnt go to a boarding school ?
    | >
    |
    | I doubt he went to school much at all, one reason why he is trying to blind
    | us all with his boring and often inaccurate rhetoric that he uses to try to
    | cover up the fact that Rod is a sexually frustrated compulsive masturbator
    | that can't get it up without the use of sexual aids like Viagra.
    |
    |
    |
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 5, 2003
    #28
  9. Suzeann Loomis

    Rod Speed Guest

    Some pathetic little pig ignorant wanker desperately cowering behind
    Miro <> desperately attempted to bullshit its way
    out of its predicament, yet again, in message
    and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 5, 2003
    #29
  10. Suzeann Loomis

    Rod Speed Guest

    Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of your
    predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.

    Pity that it was a 4550 that was actually being discussed.

    Reams of your desperate attempts to bullshit your way
    out of your predicament flushed where it belongs.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 5, 2003
    #30
  11. And what does the model 4550 have to do with it ?

    It is a computing platform, it has a CPU and RAM and processes using a high level GUI based
    operating system.
    So what's your point ?

    You should have seen what I was doing with IBM286 based MCA based platforms.

    Dave




    |
    | message |
    | > He seems to forget Dell makes Enterprise
    | > solutions not just home computer products.
    |
    | Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of your
    | predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.
    |
    | Pity that it was a 4550 that was actually being discussed.
    |
    | Reams of your desperate attempts to bullshit your way
    | out of your predicament flushed where it belongs.
    |
    |
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 5, 2003
    #31
  12. Suzeann Loomis

    That Guy Guest

    Agreed. Using SCSI drives on a home system is like chartering an airplane
    to take you across the street. IDE drives are fast enough and reliable
    enough, especially with the security of RAID 5. SCSI drives might be a few
    percent faster, but can cost more than twice as much.
     
    That Guy, Dec 5, 2003
    #32
  13. Suzeann Loomis

    Rod Speed Guest

    Its the system being discussed where the
    cost of RAID5 SCSI cant be justified, fool.
    And is a fairly basic desktop system
    where IDE is perfectly adequate, fool.
    Even you should be able to bullshit you way out of your
    predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.
    This is where we're all supposed to swoon is it Lipman ?

    Aint got the remotest relevance to what makes sense on
    a 4550 TODAY, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit arstist.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 5, 2003
    #33
  14. Speaking of speed and not being particularly familiar with the SCSI
    protocol, my common sense tells me that having a stripe on a IDE
    multichannel controller can push the speed quite some way..
    Again my common sense tells me that a SCSI controller can not stream data
    from more than one drive at a time, as only one drive can put data on the
    bus at the same time
    We have an experimental machine with a six way IDE controller with 128 MB on
    controller cache with six 40 GB, set as a stripe. This is solely as a work
    drive, as there is another drive on the main controller as system drive and
    yet another one for swap only, each on it's own channel.
    We have simulation software running on it, the machine is a dual AMD with 2
    GB memory. It appears that running the model from the stripe makes the
    system fully utilize the processing power, while running from a separate
    drive shows clearly a bottle neck in the HD data transfer. Our consultants
    love the machine because it performs the simulation about 3 times faster
    than their laptops (2.6 with 1 GB RAM).
    The 2.5" drives in the DELL laptops are pathetic. Using an external 3.5"
    HD - firewire makes the system crunch the models about 50% faster. I have
    also purchased a 7200 8MB 2.5" and replaced a 4500 (standard on DELL) but
    the consultant using it found no gain from that (even a 5% decrease in
    speed!!!) which I can not explain.

    As mentioned in another mail when using hardware RAID (of any kind) I
    strongly recommend refraining from converting the volume from "basic" to
    "dynamic"; Promise controllers have the ability to use a drive as "hot
    spare" but if you convert to dynamic and the RAID tries to switch on the
    spare you will probably lose the data!
    I am not too sure if this is the case for SCSI as well but I have added
    another HD to a SCSI system and I can not make the spare to join the RAID
    volume, I suspect is because the volume has been made dynamic previously. I
    should probably read more about it but time is at a premium for me.

    Anyway, I thought it would be good to share this information with the people
    reading this newsgroup.
    And all (decent) comments are most welcome

    Cristian Croitoru

    "That Guy" :
     
    Cristian Croitoru, Dec 5, 2003
    #34
  15. Rod:

    I tried real hard to be a nice guy and let you state your point in a rational way. You have
    failed to provide any information to back up your statements. All you did was curse and
    name call. It is neither professional nor a positive sign of good character. Therefore I
    have to come to the negative conclusion that you are a character w/o any redeeming
    qualities. But I did give you a chance.

    Having said that...

    The Dell Dimension 4550 is an excellent Pentium 4 platform that uses the i845 chipset. I
    see no reason to negate the use of RAID 5 SCSI or RAID 5 SATA on this platform. In
    comparison the i4004, a 4 bit CPU, got us to the moon and the number of MIPS the Dell Dim.
    4550 platform significantly outperforms a VAX PDP11.

    There is nothing foolish about making the data used on a PC reliable. On the contrary, it
    is fool hardy to not protect data assets. The most important aspect of a computer is the
    data. This is the information age and information is what is stored on the hard disk
    sub-system. If the Original Poster (OP) indicates that she needs 250Gbs to store the
    content of her photography than the loss of said data can be catastrophic. Unfortunately
    the use if one hard disk to store this valuable data leads to a single point of failure and
    the possible complete loss of her data. What is the cost of data loss to the OP ? That is
    the relevant point here. Not the cost of the disk sub-systems as compared to the platform
    used. There is nothing in the computer world that states you have to spend $20K on a
    computing platform to spend $2K on the disk subsystem. It just doesn't work that way. You
    don't compare the platform cost vs the disk subsystem cost. You look at the whole cost of a
    complete system based upon the need for the system. The platform, storage and backup media
    is all a part of that overall cost. The cost of restoring lost data is always *much higher*
    than the cost of maintaining and or protecting the data. In addition as an external
    sub-system, if the dell Dim. 4550 platform itself should fail, the disk sub-system is easily
    ported over to a replacement platform. Today the OP might have the Dim. 4550 tomorrow, the
    OP might buy a replacement platform. As a subsystem, it is easily moved to the newer
    platform thus the overall cost is spread over a longer period of time.

    The OP has to perform a personal Cost Benefit Analysis and has to determine what is the cost
    to her if all the objects of her photographic art were lost. 250GB is alot of data. The OP
    has to ask herself....How many DVD discs would it take to backup the data ? How many CDROMs
    ? What is the cost of a tape backup system ?

    The OP has asserted that she will go with a "large second drive". Lets assume that drive is
    250GB. If she doesn't go with a reliable storage solution she MUST have a tertiary storage
    solution in case the "large second drive" fails. If she was to go for say a USB2 AIT2 tape
    drive she would still be looking at $900~$1400 for the tape drive and atleast $45 per tape
    and it would take all nite to perform the backup. So if you compare the cost of a backup
    solution for 250GBs worth of data as compared to the cost of a reliable storage solution
    they equalize. Then when you look at the benefits of RAID 5 it actually outweighs the
    benefits of a cheap large drive and a backup solution.

    If one drive in the array fails then the OP would still be able to access her data and then
    buy a replacement drive and then rebuild the data striped to the drive. This is alot
    quicker than restoring 250GB from 2 to 3 100GB AIT tapes.

    There is no foolishness in anything that I have stated nor have I stooped to your level of
    cursing and ridiculing.

    The rest of my replies are inline....

    |
    | in message |
    | > And what does the model 4550 have to do with it ?
    |
    | Its the system being discussed where the
    | cost of RAID5 SCSI cant be justified, fool.


    And what is the cost of replacing the 250GB of data if the drive fails ? what is the
    opputunity cost in that ?


    | > It is a computing platform, it has a CPU and RAM and
    | > processes using a high level GUI based operating system.
    |
    | And is a fairly basic desktop system
    | where IDE is perfectly adequate, fool.
    |


    IDE, SCSI, SATA, PATA - one drive leads to a single point of failure and 250GB of data lost
    on just one drive is very, very costly.


    | > So what's your point ?
    |
    | Even you should be able to bullshit you way out of your
    | predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.

    Childish, moronic, and pitiful way to make a statement don't you think ? since UseNet data
    is cached and stored is THIS the way you want to be viewed ? You come off as an ignorant
    ranting child.


    | > You should have seen what I was doing
    | > with IBM286 based MCA based platforms.
    |
    | This is where we're all supposed to swoon is it Lipman ?


    No it is meant to point out the fact that the Dell Dim. 4550 is no "dog". It a high end
    system that can outperform a system of just a dozen years ago that wasused a server doing
    alot more and cost thousands of dollars more.


    | Aint got the remotest relevance to what makes sense on
    | a 4550 TODAY, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit arstist.


    You show that you are actually a computer illiterate fool who's only way out of a discussion
    is to curse, rant and verbally harass. That what separates an expert like me from and
    newbie user like yourself. I get paid for my opinions and when I discuss computer
    technology and application a room full of people become quiet, listen and take notes.
    That's how I have come to the position of working for a Fortune 100 IT outsourcing company
    and have been contracted to (censored) for close to a dozen years.

    That's it for me. I have wasted enough time rebuking you. However, those who are reading
    this thread will hopefully think about their data and ramifications of catastrophic data
    loss and how to safeguard their data and protect themselves from a major loss.

    Mr. David H. Lipman
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 6, 2003
    #35
  16. Suzeann Loomis

    Tom Almy Guest

    This is not necessarily a reason for RAID 5 or SCSI. If you are
    concerned about your data, you still have to do backups, at least two
    sets, and keep them offsite. We had a UNIX server with all the redunancy
    you could ask for, then something went wrong and all 4+ terabytes of
    data was lost. Backups were the only thing that saved us.
     
    Tom Almy, Dec 6, 2003
    #36
  17. Suzeann Loomis

    Tom Scales Guest

    Your approach is illogical and irrational. You know it, but refuse to admit
    it.

    The approach I use, which is, uh, rational, is two IDE hard drives and
    decent mirroring software.

    Heck of a lot cheaper than any SCSI Raid solution. SCSI is not measureably
    more reliable than today's IDE drives.


    Tom
     
    Tom Scales, Dec 6, 2003
    #37
  18. Suzeann Loomis

    Leythos Guest

    Actually, since we're talking about IDE, a mirrored set (even if only a
    software mirror) will outperform a standard single IDE drive for reads.

    The intent behind a mirror is to provide real-time fault tolerance. The
    need for off-line storage of valuable data is not lessened, but you are
    less likely to need it in the event of a hardware failure. This of
    course doesn't do anything if someone deletes a file and you want to
    recover it - that's was tape and now DVD is for.

    R5 on a workstation, unless you are using a BIG workstation is overkill
    and a waste of money, mirroring provides the space and redundancy.
     
    Leythos, Dec 6, 2003
    #38
  19. Suzeann Loomis

    Kernelpanic Guest

    Hey Rod, a few threads back Mr Lipman made the statement "He can't see the
    trees through the forest.", yet he failed to distinguish a model for the
    home consumer and models for businesses. He sees the 4550 as just a
    computer and not a computer for budget conscience home consumer. I totally
    agree with you.
     
    Kernelpanic, Dec 6, 2003
    #39
  20. Suzeann Loomis

    Kernelpanic Guest

    Suze,

    I read all the post, from which alot of it got off the subject that you had
    posted. Did you try and contact Dell? If you have support for you system,
    I suggest you contact Dell, even though there may be those that will oppose
    it. Please post the firmware rev that you BIOS is using(Rev. A04 added
    "UDMA support for 48-bit LBA hard drives over 137GB"), and what OS you are
    running on the system(i.e., WinXP Home, WinXP Pro SP1, etc...). You should
    be able to install a 250GB HD in your system, but it may depend on your OS
    and BIOS firmware for how big a partition can be. The new HD may come with
    a utility to help you partition your HD. If adding the drive as a 2nd
    drive, your problem may be simply that you can't create a partition greater
    then 120GB(Actually it's slightly larger), but you can create a few
    partitions on that new HD. I also hope that you are backing up your files.
     
    Kernelpanic, Dec 6, 2003
    #40
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.