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1680x1050 VGA but not DVI?

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by danr_18, Jul 24, 2007.

  1. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    I can get 1680x1050 VGA, but only 1280x1024 DVI. Any ideas?

    I have an nVidia Quadro 4 NVS with 64 MB driver 6.5.7.3 bios
    4.17.00.44.22.

    That's the latest driver I found.

    Also, Samsung's MagicTune Premium says that my computer isn't
    compatible...


    Thanks (Yes, I'm going to try and call Samsung - I was getting fast
    busies last time I tried.)
     
    danr_18, Jul 24, 2007
    #1
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  2. danr_18

    Paul Guest

    There are a couple possibilities for why that happens. The resolution
    limits offered, can depend on the EDID or the monitor driver. AFAIK, the
    following tool dumps the EDID as it comes across the serial link from
    the monitor. (There is serial clock and data on the monitor cable.)

    Moninfo.exe (download link in upper left corner of web page)
    http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

    A second reason, has to do with the hardware capabilities of
    the DVI link on some cards. If the DVI link comes straight from
    the GPU (most of the time), the upper resolution limit depends
    on the signal quality from the GPU. There are also separate
    Silicon Image driver chips, that work all the way to 165MHz like
    they are supposed to. Now, in fact, the signal from the GPU may
    indeed be able to work at 165MHz, but the driver may have a
    coded limit (i.e. Nvidia limits the resolution to conservative
    values). Sometimes this bit of cleverness is a function of
    driver release, so trying another driver might change it.

    While this link is probably not relevant to your problem, it
    will give you some idea of the issues involved.

    http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/

    What is the exact model number of your video card again ? There
    might be a number after the "NVS" part.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 26, 2007
    #2
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  3. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    Thanks, I'll take a look.

    The NVidia software says just about everything but the model number.
    Is there a way of telling?
    I haven't tried opening the PC to look there, at this point- I don't
    know if it's on the board itself.

    I'm now using Forceware 84.26, with the same issues. It also doesn't
    allow Samsung MagicTune to work.
     
    danr_18, Jul 26, 2007
    #3
  4. danr_18

    Paul Guest

    Is there an entry in Device Manager ?

    If not there, you can try Everest. You can look in Devices:pCI Devices
    and find the display adapter there. If the text string is not informative,
    use the "Device ID" such as 10DE-xxxx, listed in Everest for the adapter.

    http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181 (Everest Download)

    This file has PCI device identities. The first four hex digits are
    the Vendor. 10DE is Nvidia, and there is an extensive list
    of Devices. You can search this text file, for instances of
    "NVS", to speed up the locating of the Device code "xxxx" part
    that you find with Everest. This is not an official registry and
    volunteers maintain this list.

    http://pciids.sourceforge.net/v2.2/pci.ids

    The card itself could be lacking in a physical label, if the card
    is an OEM. Some cards may have an FCC_ID, but the last time I tried
    to use the FCC search engine, it wasn't working worth a damn.

    MagicTune uses DDC apparently, to communicate with the monitor. That
    would be the same interface that communicates the EDID. So if Moninfo
    can see the monitor, so should MagicTune. (I notice there are many
    versions of MagicTune, so perhaps a later version would help.)

    http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitors/magictune/magictune_01s.htm

    I don't know the driver details of EDID, as to whether there is a separate
    component to the driver, that makes the EDID interface available.

    Pin 6 and 7 on the DVI connector, are for the DDC serial interface.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvi

    On a VGA connector, it is pin 12 and 15 used for DDC.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector

    Both connectors have DDC, and that is how the OS can query the
    monitor and see what the max resolution is, listed in the EDID info.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 26, 2007
    #4
  5. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    Well, it's either a 200 NVS or 400 NVS.

    case 0x017a10de: /* Nvidia Quadro4 200 NVS/400 NVS */

    (The file you pointed me to, only said Quadro 4 - I googled and found
    some code with
    the above comment ... I think 200 sounds familiar from when I bought
    it with my IBM ThinkCentre...
    maybe they have record.)

    I hear that the Forceware driver doesn't support MagicTune -- but
    I was using the latest, non-Forceware drivers from IBM's website.
    and the latest Windows update version before - and MagicTune didn't
    work.


    I'll take a look at your earlier links to see what it reports in
    Digital mode, when I get a chance to fiddle.

    Thanks
     
    danr_18, Jul 26, 2007
    #5
  6. danr_18

    Paul Guest

    I think the 400 has two GPU chips, and can drive up to four monitors.
    The 200 has one GPU chip (one heatsink), and drives two monitors.
    The 200 could be on a low profile card (not as tall as regular PCI).

    As I understand it, the serial bus is mastered by the video card. I
    don't think it is the same bus as the rest of the computer. So the
    video driver would have control over what other software can do to the
    bus. For example, if an application attempted to "write" to the bus,
    they could filter out the writes and send them to the bit bucket.
    Preventing writes or filtering addresses, might be an attempt to
    prevent errant applications from overwriting the EDID EEPROM.
    That is just a guess on my part, as to why it might not work.

    Apparently, some Samsung monitors don't have any buttons at
    all, and rely entirely on Magictune. How scary is that...

    http://www.bcchardware.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2300&Itemid=40&limit=1&limitstart=1

    Maybe if you looked through the driver archive, and found a
    really old Quadro driver, that would work. Some releases,
    when you go to the web page for them, have release notes in
    PDF form. The supported video cards are listed. The 66.93
    mentions support for NVS200. So you could go back at least
    that far and try that driver. 61.76 mentions NVS200 as well
    in the release notes.

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_archive.html

    PDF page 23, shows an example of a support table (61.76 driver).
    http://http.download.nvidia.com/Win...vers_Release_Notes_Windows_XP-2000-9x-NT4.pdf

    The info is also accessible through FTP.
    ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/61.76

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 27, 2007
    #6
  7. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    84.26 is listed for the Quadro as well (which is what I'm using).
    Are you saying I should use an older version, for a reason?

    Someone on the nVidia forum mentioned that these Forceware drivers
    don't work with MagicTune... you think an older version would... or
    would give me the higher resolution? I would doubt that...

    Thanks
     
    danr_18, Jul 27, 2007
    #7
  8. danr_18

    Paul Guest

    I personally refer to the practice, as "driver roulette" :)
    Sometimes you get lucky, and a bad behavior you were seeing, stops.

    For example, when I got an ATI video card a few years ago, I made
    the mistake of using the driver off the CD in the box. Crashed
    the machine, and required some work to get around and fix. It took three
    different drivers off their website, before I was happy enough with
    it, to leave the drivers alone.

    On the other side of the coin, you could also look into the Magictune
    user support on the Samsung web site, and see if they acknowledge
    that their software doesn't work under all circumstances. I really
    feel sorry for anyone that has no physical OSD buttons on the side
    of the monitor - relying on a software package to do this, is
    really taking chances. If they wanted people to have a better
    user experience, they should have used a USB interface for their
    idea. (I.e. Run a USB cable from the monitor to the computer, as
    USB would not stop their software from working.)

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 27, 2007
    #8
  9. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    This monitor (216BW) does have an OSD, but the color adjustments get
    skipped over.
    I can adjust the color via the NVIDIA driver. Are those video card
    settings, or does that actually
    adjust the monitor?

    Again, there are two issues, the MagicTune and max DVI resolution...
    I'll see what else I can find.
    I replied to the Forceware not compatible with SmartTune in the nVidia
    forum.. no reply yet.

    Samsung does have the Quadro 4 NVS 200 listed on their MagicTune site
    -- and I had a non-Forceware driver at first.
    Samsung Tech Support said I should check if there is a videocard
    update (not firmware update)... I'm guessing firmware. nVidia's
    website doesn't have any..(I gather that's more manufacturer specific)
    I guess I'll have to pop open the box and scan for the manufacturer -
    but I guess that if they are hiding so well, they're not going to have
    much in terms of support!

    Thanks
     
    danr_18, Jul 27, 2007
    #9
  10. danr_18

    Paul Guest

    The color adjustment in the video driver, would be done to the graphics
    card and not the monitor.

    People do flash and change video card BIOSes, but trashing the card
    is probably not what you are interested in. You'd have to find a forum
    that specializes in such things, to determine whether the NVS 200 is
    a good candidate.

    By the way, what did the Entechtaiwan Moninfo tool report ? Did it
    get any info ? That would be proof that the interface works to some
    extent.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 27, 2007
    #10
  11. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    Well, in VGA mode, all is fine in Moninfo.

    In digital mode, the 'Samsung 216BW in digital mode' just shows the
    card.

    The 'Samsung Monitor on Auxilary Port' - shows all of the info -- and
    it includes
    1680x1050 - the resolution which I can't get to.

    In the Windows Display settings it shows this third display as
    "Default monitor on Nvidia Quadro NVS' and it doesn't allow me to set
    anything... and it is not the current monitor according to the Display
    Settings, the 216BW is.

    I did uninstall the drivers before installing the latest one...

    Monitor
    Windows description......... Samsung Monitor
    Manufacturer description.... SyncMaster
    Manufacturer................ Samsung
    ----------------------------
    Plug and Play ID............ SAM030D
    Serial number............... anonymized by me
    EDID data source............ I2C bus (real-time)
    ----------------------------
    Manufacture date............ anonymized by me
    EDID revision............... 1.3
    Display type and signal..... Digital
    Sync input support.......... n/a
    Screen size................. 470 x 300 mm (~23")
    Power management............ Active off/sleep

    Color characteristics
    Display gamma............... 2.20
    Red chromaticity............ Rx 0.644 - Ry 0.333
    Green chromaticity.......... Gx 0.286 - Gy 0.603
    Blue chromaticity........... Bx 0.152 - By 0.079
    White point (default)....... Wx 0.313 - Wy 0.329

    Timing characteristics
    VESA GTF support............ Not supported
    Horizontal scan range....... 30-81kHz
    Vertical scan range......... 56-75Hz
    Video bandwidth............. 140MHz
    Extension blocks............ n/a
    Timing recommendation #1.... 1680x1050 at 60Hz
    Modeline................ "1680x1050" 119.000 1680 1728 1760 1840
    1050 1053 1059 1080 +hsync -vsync

    Standard timings supported
    640 x 480 at 60Hz - IBM VGA
    640 x 480 at 67Hz - Mac II
    640 x 480 at 72Hz - VESA
    640 x 480 at 75Hz - VESA
    720 x 400 at 70Hz - IBM VGA
    800 x 600 at 56Hz - VESA
    800 x 600 at 60Hz - VESA
    800 x 600 at 72Hz - VESA
    800 x 600 at 75Hz - VESA
    832 x 624 at 75Hz - Mac II
    1024 x 768 at 60Hz - VESA
    1024 x 768 at 70Hz - VESA
    1024 x 768 at 75Hz - VESA
    1152 x 864 at 75Hz - VESA
    1152 x 870 at 75Hz - Mac II
    1280 x 960 at 60Hz - VESA
    1280 x 1024 at 60Hz - VESA
    1280 x 1024 at 75Hz - VESA
    1680 x 1050 at 60Hz - Samsung
    1680 x 1680 at 60Hz - VESA

    Raw EDID base
    00: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00
    rest anonymized by me (I'm not sure what the data contains...
    when decoded alot of hex data.)


    Display adapter
    Adapter description......... Auxiliary port
    Adapter device ID........... 0x017A10DE
    Display settings............ n/a

    User/computer information
    anonymized by me
     
    danr_18, Jul 28, 2007
    #11
  12. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    So, I removed the extra monitors... So MonInfo now only sees the one
    monitor and has all the proper information with 1680x1050 max res for
    'Samsung 216BW in digital mode', yet, the video driver still tells me
    the max is 1280x1024.
     
    danr_18, Jul 29, 2007
    #12
  13. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    I opened the machine and saw the IBM FRU and looked it up on IBM's
    website.
    It is indeed the Quadro4 200 NVS.

    I searched IBM's website for Quadro4 and came up with a 91.36
    driver, which is about 3 months newer than the latest driver on
    nVidia's website (even if I search for beta).
    It's over 2 years newer than the latest driver IBM had for my specific
    PC model.

    With this driver, MagicTuner works! I still haven't actually tuned
    it.
    By the way, the monitor OSD color and contrast settings were disabled,
    since I had MagicColor on --
    it had nothing to do with the monitor or anything else.

    I still can not get about 1280x1024 DVI. (I explicitly ordered this
    card with the PC a few years ago, to
    be able to use with with a DVI monitor - which I finally just
    bought).

    If I manually add the 1680x1050 resolution to the nVidia driver,
    it gives a mess of a screen. Looking at the spec sheet - it doesn't
    list any DVI resolutions above it...
    but it doesn't list 1680x1024 VGA either (although it lists higher
    resolutions).

    http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-45039.html

    Maybe the 140 mHz clock has to do with it.. although I see others
    online doing that
    res with that max clock speed... Donno...


    I need to see what I will really be gaining with DVI.
    Just trying to see if I should go video card shopping..
    I don't do gaming, so I don't need a $200 card (I see this card is now
    about $20).


    Thanks again!
     
    danr_18, Jul 29, 2007
    #13
  14. danr_18

    Paul Guest

    I found a similar set of data here for the NVS200. A DVI resolution
    limit of 1280x1024 at 60Hz seems pretty low, even for DVI output limited
    resolution.

    http://www.elsa-jp.co.jp/product/02multi/WINNER4_200_NVS/spec.html

    At least you've gained access to MagicTune, which is a partial victory.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 29, 2007
    #14
  15. danr_18

    danr_18 Guest

    danr_18, Jul 29, 2007
    #15
  16. danr_18

    'sein Guest

    I have the same kind of problem. Just got a Quadro4 550 XGL card from
    eBay to run my two LG L204WT 1680x1050 displays. It seems so lame to
    have such a low resolution limit on a Quadro card.

    I totally believe that Leadtek information which says that its simply
    not supported and not going to work. I'm so very frustrated after
    wasting half a day trying.

    There is a lot of contradictory information around, for example:

    o http://www.pny.com/products/quadro/discontinued/xgl/550xgl.asp
    This page says "2048x1536 per display". I've found a few
    other places around on the Internet that quote this too.

    o http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/Quadro_Certified/91.36/91.36_ForceWare_Quadro_Release_Notes.pdf
    These are the release notes for the latest driver supporting
    this chip and on page 62 it says in Table A.2 that
    1680x1050 is a nonstandard mode which is supported.

    What a great big fat waste of time. Anyone recommend a good cheap ATi
    card with two DVI connectors? I like the breakout cable design of
    this Quadro4 550 as my case has a lip which I'd have to saw off with a
    hacksaw if two connectors were next to each other.
     
    'sein, Aug 3, 2007
    #16
  17. danr_18

    'sein Guest

    Oop, didn't realise this was an nVidia group. Didn't mean to be
    controversial by mentioning ATi here :)
     
    'sein, Aug 3, 2007
    #17
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