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2,5" hdd laptop & Linux

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by Don Juan, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. Don Juan

    Don Juan Guest

    I'm looking for a 2,5" sata hdd, for my laptop, and use it with linux distro.
    I think to buy a standard device (not a ssd) for a size of 500GB.

    I would simply buy a brand-model that hasn't problem with linux.
    Does anyone suggest me a name?
    I'm worried (after some online search to retrieve info and opinions on models that i've seen on sale mìbranded wd,hitachi..) about: 1) some "bug" inmany hdd's firmwares for about the power saving function (sympotms of continuosly sound-clicking cused by continuously parking/reactive of the heads)2)Others less worried issues as "alignment partition"

    https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.p...ich_perform_frequent_head_unloads_under_Linux

    https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_4_KiB_sector_issues
     
    Don Juan, Mar 22, 2013
    #1
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  2. Don Juan

    Happy Oyster Guest

    Right.

    One thing to add: naked HDDs, to be built in internally in a PC, are
    quite expensive, compared with external HDDs that have an enclosure and
    power supply.

    The question is: why build in a LARGE HDD? It only causes trouble. If
    the notebook is used mobile, the an extra HDD might be a nuisance, but
    if the computer is used in an office only, the HDD being external has
    big advantages, may it be security and ease of use.
     
    Happy Oyster, Mar 23, 2013
    #2
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  3. The brand of drive won't matter to Linux. The controller might but
    almost certainly won't. As far as consumer grade laptop drives go I like
    Western Digital or Fujitsu. But there's not that much difference. Samsung
    drives are Ok and cheap.

    Look into a SSD though. Makes a big performance difference.
    Subjectively, won't help benchmarks that much.
     
    the wharf rat, Mar 23, 2013
    #3
  4. Don Juan

    Don Juan Guest

    Il giorno sabato 23 marzo 2013 16:06:02 UTC+1, the wharf rat ha scritto:
    Ok, but problem is know what model, (now on sale) has these simple features is Linux compatible, .
    I've found, for example that latest wd drives are very problematic (issue is head auto parks non standard function) with Linux (and also hitachi or seagate and samsung).
    My temporary solution: Find a laptop model sold with Linux and buy their hdd. Actually, with this "heuristc" I've selected a Toshiba MK series that is hdd of hp laptop selled with ubuntu.

    Yes the alternative is ssd.

    Thanks for reply
     
    Don Juan, Mar 26, 2013
    #4
  5. The issue is WD's change to 4096 byte blocks. Linux is perfectly
    OK with this but Windows is not. WD's fix was to have the drive firmware
    lie about the geometry and claim "standard" 512 byte blocks. That breaks
    on ANY OS if the partition ends on a boundary not divisible by 8. In Linux,
    you can easily work around this nonsense by manually creating partitions
    and ensuring this. The drives aren't incompatible.

    So don't use the brand new "advanced format" WD drives, use a
    real Enterprise drive and SAS, or use an older and cheaper drive for
    your Linux system. Or try a Samsung :)
     
    the wharf rat, Mar 26, 2013
    #5
  6. Don Juan

    Don Juan Guest

    Il giorno martedì 26 marzo 2013 16:30:52 UTC+1, the wharf rat ha scritto:

    Ok, thanks, but I'm worried primarily about this issue:
    https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.p...ich_perform_frequent_head_unloads_under_Linux

    Now on sale there are some hdd with this issue, and solution are trick, or there aren't solution.

    I've seen also, in many forum on web, some users speak about failure of these devices, only after a few months. These threads are often about ask suggest for data recovery, but I think this is too frequent and strange, andprobably users haven't awareness that with some s.o. their device could have abnormals behaviours with consequnces on devices's life .

    However after an attempt with an hdd 2,5", I'm seriously thinking to pass to a ssd device (also because sata-300 on 60/128GB aren't so expensive).
    In my netbook hdd slot, is specified compatible with an hdd's highness of 9..5mm. I've seen that numerous interesting ssd are in the 7mm form factor.
    Do you think is equal or I will have some trouble with sata connector position, or with holes screw's position (in my netbook, the device is put in a little jail / case with four screws, then slided it until connects it on the sata connector).
     
    Don Juan, Mar 26, 2013
    #6
  7. Seems pretty much a non-issue. It's not because of Linux (you're
    just reading about it on a kernel forum :), but because of a buggy interaction
    between certain laptop IDE drives and power management. It seems to depend
    on the installation platform as well as the particular drive since manifestation
    is dependent on IO patterns.

    The issue here with WD is that WD chooses to require their own
    special program to reset APM parameters on a few models (I'm not sure you can
    use hdparm on their "Green" drives). That could be seen as "incompatibility"
    but it's really WD's choice to support only Windows. That's a good reason
    to avoid WD. If you end up with a set of hardware that manifests this bug
    it's not really a big deal, and can be worked around easily with hdparm.

    Frankly, you can avoid all these kinds of things by using last
    generation hardware for Linux. Older stuff is well supported and Linux
    doesn't need the latest hardware to run rings around Windows systems.
     
    the wharf rat, Mar 26, 2013
    #7
  8. Don Juan

    Don Juan Guest


    Uhm I agree, it isn't a kernel's bug, or a linux issue, but for what I've understood seems a non-standard use of ata commands (probably specific vendor extensions).
    In particular with newer hdds, to obtain best performance in power saving and to make them more shock resistent head's device should be parked when disk is unused for a time.
    In practice, the result is that if s.o. is booted by the hdd it (in transparent manner , to user) continuosly accesses to hdd.
    The Device doesn't understand correctly commands relatively poer save management, has false beliefs on the world, and it cycles to parks unparks the heads (with deleterious effects on hdd's life).
    of course, after this experience, I will avoid them.
    The Support center has told me simply:" here there are utilities for your model, with which you can diagnose the hdd health (note: I've just told themsmart count load/unload, make diagnose wasn't my problem), there aren't fix for firmware, for your model there aren't software to tune this problem, but there is for others models, and has gave me the link, but also told me that this was not supported by WD ( looking on web, other users have reported that seems don't work)
    ok, is correct , in my experience I've used this utility and its .conf file, stopping the autopark function.
    But honestly, I'm not sure of the consequence on policy's device power savemanaging (certainly, when the machine goes in stand-by, also hdd goes, but I seems that hdd can make a smart use of power, for example when it's not fully used)
    I'm not sure to understand your suggest (this only because English isn't mylanguage, excuse me): Yuo suggest me, to avoid these problems, to prefer old hardware (probably without the cited smart parking feature )
     
    Don Juan, Mar 26, 2013
    #8
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