2460 vid card issue

Discussion in 'Tyan' started by R. J. Salvi, Feb 2, 2005.

  1. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest

    I had a strange thing happen when trying to install an ATI AIW 9700
    Pro...after connecting the aux 12V connector (floppy power connector) to the
    card, when I power the unit up, everything lights up for a second, then
    dies. With a Radeon 9000 Pro -- that doesn't require the 12V aux. power --
    it boots fine.

    BIOS: 1.04 (set so VGA does not use an IRQ)
    PSU: Antec 550W
    PCI cards in 5 of the slots (sound, USB 2.0, TV, NIC, controller card)
    Dual 2600+ MP Bartons
    120GB HD
    1GB DDR266 (registered)

    I haven't spent much time troubleshooting the unit yet, but I'm curious if
    anyone has had a similar issue and what the workaround was. OR, is there
    something obvious you see from my hardware config that I'm missing (IRQ
    problem, etc). Thx.
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. R. J. Salvi

    dr ratt Guest

    i had no problem installing a radeon 9700 pro in my s2460. this also draws
    power from a floppy connector.
    my bios [1.05] is set to use an irq for vga, as it was with bios 1.04 before
    that.
    controller card ? is this a raid card ? if so, it should be the closest card
    to the video card [leave 1 slot gap between], audio should be furthest from
    the video, lan close to audio.
    the only other thing i can think, is the lead with floppy connector to vid
    card also powering hdds or anything? if so try using other leads & not
    sharing the one going to the ati.
    i also use antec 550 watt psu, xp-m2400s, 3ware ata raid, gigalan, audio,
    2x40gb hdds, 2x120gb hdds, dvdrom,dvdrw
     
    dr ratt, Feb 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest

    I do believe the floppy connector was also attached to other drives. Beyond
    that and with the exception of the amount of drives installed, my config
    looks very similar to yours...right down to the PCI slot card assignments.
    Hmmm...

    Thanks for the quick response!
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 2, 2005
    #3
  4. R. J. Salvi

    dr ratt Guest

    dr ratt, Feb 3, 2005
    #4
  5. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest


    It would appear so. I took a gander at the installation maunals for ATI's
    Fire GL cards and it specifies assigning an IRQ for VGA. Hopefully that'll
    do iy. Thx.
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 3, 2005
    #5
  6. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest

    Using *only* RAM, CPUs, AIW 9700 Pro, switching BIOS to use IRQ for VGA and
    using a 12V power connector with nothing else on the line...no POST, vid or
    beeps. It tries to boot for a split second, then dies. If I disconnect the
    12V connector from the AIW, everything powers up and I get the on-screen ATI
    error message that I need to connect a 12V power source to the card.

    Any thoughts?

    P.S., BIOS changes were made with a different video card installed
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 8, 2005
    #6
  7. R. J. Salvi

    dr ratt Guest

    does the 9700 aiw work in another system? as you've covered all the other
    bases, i thought i'd ask the obvious.

    dr ratt
     
    dr ratt, Feb 8, 2005
    #7
  8. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest

    Yes. Flawlessly. It's almost as if attaching that 12V aux. connector to the
    card is triggering something on the motherboard to switch the PSU off.
    Without attaching the connector, everything fires up except I can't get past
    the ATI (attach 12V connector) on-screen error message.
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 8, 2005
    #8
  9. R. J. Salvi

    dr ratt Guest

    ok then, to scrape the barrel, when i replaced a faulting ram module, the
    board refused to boot until i had defaulted the cmos via jumper. failing
    that i'm stuck, too.
    checking the tyan website, 9700pro cards are recommended but aiw are not,
    also tyan but there are plenty of recommendations in the 2cpu.com forums, so
    i'd guess there's no inherent incompatibility problem.
    this one's got my goat, please post if you find answers before i do.

    dr ratt
     
    dr ratt, Feb 8, 2005
    #9
  10. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest

    I'm beginning to think that the AIW 9700 Pro in combination with the 2600
    MPs is too much for the PSU's 5V rail to handle at boot. I could always
    search for the uber PSU -- though I thought the Antec 550 qualified -- but I
    think at this point I'm going to drop the Radeon 9000 Pro back in and forget
    about it. If I do decide to revisit this issue in the future, I'll post the
    findings. Thanks for your help!
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 8, 2005
    #10
  11. R. J. Salvi

    Paul Guest

    Is this the motherboard with the ampere capacity problem ? There
    are four pins that carry +5V, each can carry 6 amps before it
    overheats. Based on the comments in these threads, the processors
    are drawing power from +5V. Two 60W processors would draw 12 amps
    from +5V, which would be the limit of the four +5V pins. Any other
    load (like a video card) could be too much for it. If you can use
    processors using much less than 60W, the problem would be solved,
    only that would make performance so bad, why bother with a dually.

    http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?threadid=13703
    http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?threadid=28746

    The second thread suggests wiring up extra +5V connections. That
    will likely be enough to prevent burning the connector.

    Note that the method shown in the second thread, requires soldering
    to the back of the ATX connector. If you get the pins hot enough,
    there is some danger of distorting the pin within the plastic
    shell, so it is no longer centered. An alternative method, would
    be to find a connection somewhere else to solder to. The copper
    planes on the board are suitable - making a connection to them
    requires scraping off the solder resist coating, tinning the
    copper with a big soldering iron, then reflow soldering the
    wire to the plane. But you have to figure out which plane is
    which, something you can do with an ohmmeter.

    If you are not in to warranty voiding mods, then contact Tyan
    and find out what they are doing to fix this problem for their
    customers.

    You should also be examining the label on your power supply.
    If this hardware configuration is drawing enough current to
    burn the pins on the power connector, the PSU could be getting
    overloaded too, unless it is rated for +5V@30A or more. That
    would allow current for two 60W processors, and leave you with
    just 5 amps more current to work with. I hope Tyan wasn't silly
    enough to connect more than just the processors to the +5V rail.
    My ATI 9800Pro draws 5.5A from its auxiliary power cable, a
    disk drive draws 1A from +5V, so you can see these loads rapidly
    add up, and in this case, a really beefy +5V amperage rating
    is required, if you expect the PSU to last for any period of time.

    If the ratings are for real, this power supply will solve any
    potential problems. 5V@61A !

    http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-101-406&depa=0

    Note that, even if you buy the power supply above, the fact that
    it supplies 61 amps is only preventing the power supply from being
    damaged by the heavy load. It doesn't prevent the ATX connector
    from being burned, unless you do the wire bypass mod mentioned
    in the thread above. Both things must be done (sufficient current
    capability on the PSU, and sufficient wires to carry the current
    into the board.) You have to do something to be able to
    pass more than 24 amps into the motherboard, and the wiring of
    an extra connector is enough to correct the potential to burn
    the connector. (Or at least find out how Tyan proposes to modify
    their product to prevent this from happening.)

    Also, the PCMCIS ATX 500W supply doesn't really supply 61 amps
    at +5V. It has a 235W limit for the combined output of +3.3V
    and +5V. If no +3.3V was being drawn (absurd assumption), then
    +5V can supply 47 amps. A reasonable number for +3.3V might
    be 10 to 15 amps, so you could have +3.3@10A and +5V@40A and be
    within the 235W limit for combined output. 40A is plenty to
    run the system.

    Good luck,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Feb 19, 2005
    #11
  12. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest


    Yes, we're talking about the same board. I think the following are
    contributing to the boot problem with the AIW 9700 Pro installed:

    A.) The Antec 550 has dedicated lines for each voltage rail with the 5V @
    40A (200W max.)

    B.) The motherboard does not have an aux. 12V connector for the CPUs and
    since the PSU has dedicated voltage lines, it leaves the 5V rail on the
    Antec to shoulder completely, the 5V consumption needs

    C.) The CPUs I'm using are beyond the specifications of what the motherboard
    was originally designed for -- even though they work fine -- further
    increasing 5V current draw.

    I thought the Antec 550 would be more than plenty, but w/o aux. power to the
    CPUs, I think my setup may be a bit much for this PSU. Having said that, I
    think I'm going to try the 550W sibling of the PSU mentioned in your link
    (5V @ 66W) and see what happens. Thanks for the help, Paul.

    P.S. I'd already done the molex "mod" to the ATX connector. If I can get a
    PSU to boot the box with the 9700 Pro installed, that mod may come in very
    handy.
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 19, 2005
    #12
  13. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest

    Installed the PCMCIS 550W (5V @ 66A) and no go. Honestly, I don't think it's
    the PSU, I think it's the board. Argh.
     
    R. J. Salvi, Feb 25, 2005
    #13
  14. R. J. Salvi

    Sam White Guest

    Have you tried using a standalone AT PSU purely to power the AIW, whilst the
    ATX PSU handles the rest of the system?

    Sam W
     
    Sam White, Mar 6, 2005
    #14
  15. R. J. Salvi

    R. J. Salvi Guest

    Hmmm...no I haven't. If I get motivated, I'll give it a shot. Thx.
     
    R. J. Salvi, Mar 8, 2005
    #15
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