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2nd RFD: comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad

Discussion in 'IBM Thinkpad' started by John Navas, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. John Navas

    John Navas Guest

    unmoderated group comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad

    This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
    unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad.

    NEWSGROUPS LINE: comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad

    comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad IBM/Lenovo line of laptop computers

    RATIONALE: comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad

    ThinkPad is a major and very popular brand of laptop/notebook computers,
    formerly part of IBM, now part of Lenovo, with many unique features that
    set the brand apart from other brands of laptop computers.

    Discussions pertaining to ThinkPad laptop computers are currently
    carried in:

    * comp.sys.laptops:
    - generic laptop discussion group
    - traffic of 40 articles per day, down from peak of over 100 per day
    - will remain for discussions not pertaining to ThinkPad
    - Google archive of over 170,000 articles

    * ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad:
    - invalid newsgroup not carried by many news providers
    - traffic of 10 articles per day
    - Google archive of over 9,000 articles

    * <http://forum.thinkpads.com/>
    - broken down into multiple specific topics
    - over 15,000 registered users
    - over 200,000 articles

    * ThinkPad mailing list
    - List: <http://stderr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/thinkpad>
    - Archive: <http://zurich.ai.mit.edu/hypermail/thinkpad/>
    - traffic of 5-15 messages per day

    The existence of ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad, the popularity of
    forum.thinkpads.com, and traffic on the ThinkPad mailing list, are
    evidence of demand for a ThinkPad brand-specific forum.

    Once it becomes carried widely, comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad is expected to
    have initial traffic of at least 20 articles per day.

    comp.sys.laptops would remain for discussions not pertaining to ThinkPad
    computers. Although some traffic would presumably be siphoned off into
    comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad, the creation of a specific subgroup might
    re-stimulate interest enough to result in more traffic, and possibly in
    the creation of other comp.sys.laptops.* subgroups.

    HISTORY: comp.sys.laptops

    comp.sys.laptops was created in about 1990. Traffic apparently peaked
    at over 100 articles per day before declining to its current level of
    about 40 articles per day. This decline is believed to be more due to
    siphoning off by brand-specific web forums (e.g., forum.thinkpads.com),
    and lack of brand focus, not any lack of interest in laptop computers.

    Adding specific subgroups (IBM, Toshiba, etc.) to comp.sys.laptops was
    proposed in 1994-1995, but apparently went nowhere:




    comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad is for discussions pertaining to ThinkPad (IBM
    and Lenovo) laptop computers. It is NOT an official support forum for
    IBM or Lenovo.

    General Usenet "netiquette" guidelines as posted in
    news.announce.newusers and news.answers shall apply to this newsgroup.
    In particular, participants are asked to show courtesy and respect for
    other participants, and to avoid the use of offensive language,
    excessive quoting, or long signature blocks. Participants are encouraged
    to use descriptive Subjects (e.g., "T41 won't boot after disk swap"
    rather than just "Help").

    The following types of posts are prohibited:

    * Off-topic (not directly related to ThinkPad laptop computers)
    * Binaries (except for appended text-encoded digital signatures)
    * Spam (including excessive cross-posting)
    * Make-money-fast or other chain or fraudulent schemes
    * Work-at-home or other scams
    * Commercial advertisements, "infomercials," or announcements
    * Auction notices (e.g., eBay)
    * Forged articles (anonymous articles are allowed)
    * Personal insults or repetitive flaming (attacks)
    * Employment (help and/or position wanted) notices

    The use of e-mail addresses from articles posted to this group for the
    purpose of sending junk (mass unsolicited) e-mail or for compiling a
    list so that others may do so is specifically prohibited.

    In the absence of moderation, prohibitions can, of course, only be
    enforced by the collective will of the group and/or by after-the-fact
    complaints to the offender's service provider. Nevertheless, it is hoped
    that this charter will help in getting complaints resolved.


    For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:


    Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
    resolution should subscribe to news.groups and participate in the
    relevant threads in that newsgroup. This is both a courtesy to groups
    in which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as the
    best method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are heard.

    All discussion of active proposals should be posted to news.groups.

    To this end, the followup header of this RFD has been set to

    If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the discussion
    may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
    that all discussion appears in news.groups as well.


    This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:



    John Navas <>


    2006-10-22 1st RFD
    2006-10-25 2nd RFD (add ThinkPad mailing list)
    John Navas, Oct 25, 2006
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  2. Hi everyone,

    Sorry about the opposition but i think that there are MORE THAN ENOUGH
    thinkpad support facilities on the web.

    What should be done is to change "ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad" to
    "comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad" by changing the name and retaining the
    previous posts or in the alternative to change "ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad" to
    "lenovo.lenovopc.thinkpad" or similar.

    An additional thinkpad newsgroup would confuse many users like myself
    and serve to separate thinkpad support into too many small parts.

    BTW: Some IBM newsgroup is not that helpful at all. Contained lots of
    nosy chatters and junk postings and left unmoderated...

    best regards,
    Koh Boon Hui (Opposition officer)
    Opposition force 999, Oct 29, 2006
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  3. John Navas

    John Navas Guest

    Usenet is not the web, and there are advantages to Usenet newsgroups as
    compared to web forums (e.g., archiving by Google).
    Neither is possible. Any other suggestions?
    There are currently no legitimate, specific thinkpad newsgroups --
    there's only the generic comp.sys.laptops
    There are both good and bad newsgroups in pretty much all hierarchies.
    An advantage of Google archiving is that you can avoid much of the noise
    by searching newsgroups for specific information.
    Best regards,
    John Navas (Proponent)
    John Navas, Oct 30, 2006
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