3rd Party apps? When and where?

Discussion in 'Apple' started by mechphisto, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. mechphisto

    mechphisto Guest

    Since the iPhone/Touch SDK has been released, when do you think we can
    start looking for 3rd party apps? A month? Several months?
    Where do you think they'll start appearing? Will iphone.com start
    featuring them, you think?
    Just have to do Google searches for them?
    (Can't wait for a good ebook reader and notes manager!)

    Thanks for any suggestions.
     
    mechphisto, Feb 12, 2008
    #1
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  2. I don't think the iPhone SDK has been released yet. It is supposed to
    be sometime this month, however. Look for there to be several new apps
    released when the SDK is released.
     
    Dave Fritzinger, Feb 12, 2008
    #2
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  3. mechphisto

    mechphisto Guest

    Come to find out the SDK isn't actually out yet--I thought it was.
    But same day for app' release? That would have to be darn fast readers/
    designers/programmers to release apps the same day the "instructions"
    for how to write apps for the iPhone comes out!
     
    mechphisto, Feb 13, 2008
    #3
  4. mechphisto

    Tinman Guest

    Certain developers have already have the SDK, before official release. There
    should be something available right from the get-go.

    Of course now that firmware 1.1.3 is easily jailbroken (2 minutes) you
    really don't need to wait on the SDK: there are hundreds, if not thousands,
    of apps already available via Installer. SDK apps will take some time to
    catch up.
     
    Tinman, Feb 13, 2008
    #4
  5. mechphisto

    mechphisto Guest

    OK, that makes sense.
    As for Jailbreak, I'd seriously considered it! I'm a tweaker; I've
    installed Linux dual-boots on all my computers, I've done all kinds of
    things with my PocketPC and have had to wipe and reinstall the entire
    system now and then....
    But I'm afraid of Apple. =) I don't want to take a risk of doing
    Something Bad to the iPhone that is unrecoverable and losing $500 on a
    bricked phone. For all I know Apple is so draconian, any coming iPhone
    update could trash the phone if it's been unlocked and they'll just
    laugh about it.
     
    mechphisto, Feb 13, 2008
    #5
  6. Apple undoubtedly has released that SDK, under NDAs of course, to some
    selected developers, as part of the beta testing program of the SDK.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 13, 2008
    #6
  7. But what will happen to them, or to the phone, once the SDK is released?
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 13, 2008
    #7
  8. mechphisto

    Tinman Guest

    Nothing. The latest firmware is already compatible with SDK apps (has the
    Nikita framework in place). Then, some of the apps will migrate to SDK apps.
    But non-Apple sanctioned apps will still be around, no doubt about that. The
    SDK will definitely not allow the same kind of flexibility as apps built
    today with current toolchain.

    And when the next update comes, it'll be jailbroken too--and you don't have
    to update till it is.

    The problem with Apple trying to lock down the iPhone is that it really does
    run OS X, under an ARM CPU. Since there are far more people around the world
    that are experts at *nix operating systems than Apple has developers in
    total, let alone working on the iPhone, let alone dedicated to closing
    exploits, Apple is facing a losing battle.

    Heck, there is already a customized bootloader out for the iPhone. A custom
    built firmware is only a few steps away.
     
    Tinman, Feb 13, 2008
    #8
  9. mechphisto

    Tinman Guest

    Apple has not done a single thing to deliberately hurt/brick iPhones. The
    issue back in September was do to flawed unlocking software--it never
    effected those who only jailbroke and did not unlock. And even that is 100%
    reversible.

    And a restore back to a factory fresh iPhone is always one click away in
    iTunes.

    There's really no risk at just jailbreaking--I've done it 100's of times.
    C'mon on in and join the fray:
    "http://www.everythingicafe.com/foru...ith-the-full-jailbreak-windows-mac-22696.html"
     
    Tinman, Feb 13, 2008
    #9
  10. Nothing. The latest firmware is already compatible with SDK apps (has
    the Nikita framework in place). Then, some of the apps will migrate
    to SDK apps. But non-Apple sanctioned apps will still be around, no
    doubt about that. The SDK will definitely not allow the same kind of
    flexibility as apps built today with current toolchain.[/QUOTE]

    I'll wait until the SDK is out and then see whether there are any
    third-party apps that require jailbreaking that I want. I jailbroke my
    iPhone with the original OS, but haven't bothered to jailbreak it again
    after the first update that broke jailbreaking.

    Anyway, when the 3G and/or GPS model comes out, I'll probably upgrade to
    that, so I can wait.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 13, 2008
    #10
  11. mechphisto

    mechphisto Guest

    Well, I'm considering it.... But looking around, every single place I
    could find info on jailbreaking iPhone indicates you have to downgrade
    the firmware from 1.1.3 to 1.1.1 first. And then there's like several
    programs that can be used to install the Installer.
    Except, that ZiPhone app you have linked off the page you just linked
    to.
    It seems to be the only app to indicate you can jailbreak from 1.1.3.
    This for sure?
    I also noticed in the "Issues" section iPhysics needs to have some fix
    that appears a bit cryptic. Would a different method of jailbreaking
    prevent that from being necessary? (As well as the Mail program
    issue?)

    Also, a couple places indicate, but only a couple, that after
    installing Installer, you have to install the BEOS (sp?) support
    packages and OpenSSH.
    Is there a reason why only a few instructions out there indicate this?
    And I've seen one warning that OpenSSH must be uninstalled for
    security reasons. Does one need to install/uninstall SSH for
    everything that one might want to install through Installer?

    Thanks for any info, anyone!
    -Liam
     
    mechphisto, Feb 13, 2008
    #11
  12. mechphisto

    Tinman Guest

    Yes, it is indeed. A major breakthrough since before ZiPhone firmware 1.1.1
    always had to be the starting point. Plus the older 1.1.3 jailbreaks,
    referred to as "soft" upgrades, were kinda problematic and of course a lot
    of work to perform. All that is history now, with the release of ZiPhone.
    It's the only way to go.

    No, a different method wouldn't help--and in fact would be much worse. The
    Mail issue is rare--I have never had and have done 10 jailbreaks via
    ZiPhone. But it's a simple fix to get it working should you have the
    problem.

    The problem with iPhysics et al is not the jailbreak, it's the apps. Prior
    to firmware 1.1.3 everything on the iPhone ran as root. You can imagine what
    a security threat that would be when SDK third-party apps appear. So now
    apps run as the mobile user. Problem is, apps that have not been updated for
    mobile user still store their data (like iPhysics levels) in /var/root
    instead of /var/mobile. Till the apps get updated for 1.1.3 a quick symlink
    will make them work.

    Of course without jailbreaking we wouldn't be able to run these apps at all.

    I personally install BSD subsystem and OpenSSH first whenever jailbreaking.
    I do this because I find SSH/SCP the easiest way to get into my iPhone to
    transfer files, run a terminal window, etc. I also use BossPrefs to turn SSH
    off when I am not using it.

    OpenSSH requires BSD SS, as do other apps--and if BSD is not installed those
    apps won't install either. BSD subsystem is an extensive collection of 'nix
    tools, pretty much what you'd find on a full blown computer. That doesn't
    mean you have to use a command line (but you can), the tools are called by
    plenty of GUI apps too.

    The reason for the security concern is because many people will just leave
    SSH, with the default root password still in place, on all of the time. This
    means if you happen to be sitting at a hot spot someone could SSH into your
    iPhone and have full control. As I stated earlier though, I use BossPrefs to
    disable SSH when I don't use it (and I have changed the default passwords
    for root and mobile). For sure you won't need to install it and uninstall
    OpenSSH for anything you'd want from Installer.
     
    Tinman, Feb 14, 2008
    #12
  13. mechphisto

    mechphisto Guest

    Thanks for all the great feedback!
    I appreciate the time you took to do that.
    Looks like I'm going to be jailbreaking tonight. =)
    Of course, your comment raises the question: Why have you found it
    necessary to jailbreak 10 times?!
    (Oh, does changing the default root and mobile passwords affect the
    operation of any of the apps, native or installed? Thanks!)
    -Liam
     
    mechphisto, Feb 14, 2008
    #13
  14. mechphisto

    Tinman Guest

    Not all the same iPhone! But I did use ZiPhone about 5 or 6 times while
    testing it on my personal iPhone, as ZiPhone was updated repeated the first
    24 hours of its release. As I was writing a guide I wanted to be sure to run
    the latest version each time it was released. Had I not been writing the
    guide I would just have stayed with what I had (the updates to ZiPhone
    mainly made it easier to use--it started out needing command line access on
    a PC). It's now at version 2.0 though and that seems to be "it" (at least
    for now).

    Nope, not at all.
     
    Tinman, Feb 14, 2008
    #14
  15. mechphisto

    Georg Lutz Guest

    Do you have a URL to your guide?
    Thank you!
     
    Georg Lutz, Feb 14, 2008
    #15
  16. mechphisto

    Tinman Guest

    Tinman, Feb 14, 2008
    #16
  17. Now you can use iJailbreak, which is a GUI front end to ZiPhone. It
    works only with the iPhone, though; support for the iPod Touch is
    forthcoming. Also, it works only with Leopard; it doesn't work with
    Tiger.

    <http://code.google.com/p/ijailbreak/>
    <http://ijailbreak.com/>
     
    Michelle Steiner, Feb 14, 2008
    #17
  18. mechphisto

    mechphisto Guest

    Oh, dear..hope you have some advice for this. What I'm finding on the
    Web isn't working.
    After jailbreaking using ZiPhone, I restarted the phone, then went
    into Install.
    I found BSD Subsystem, but when I try to install, it seems to download
    3/4 the way then says:
    Error: Package download failed!
    Searching, I found people recommending going from wifi to Edge and
    trying, I did that, and no good. And back to wifi, no good.
    Someone recommended just keep trying over and over, I tried maybe 20
    times, no luck.
    Someone recommended using the Japanese version--even if I knew where
    to find that, not sure I want to do that.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks.
    -Liam
     
    mechphisto, Feb 15, 2008
    #18
  19. mechphisto

    Tinman Guest

    Easy fix:

    1.) Try to Install it again, but instead of tapping Install tap Remove from
    Queue. (If Remove from Queue is not there tap Cancel instead.)

    2.) Tap the Sources tab.

    3.) Tap Refresh.

    4.) When the refresh is complete go ahead and install BSD subsystem.


    Keep in mind there is a small bug in Installer: when a package fails to
    install it stays in the queue. So if you don't clear the queue you will get
    the same error repeatedly.

    Good job on getting as far as you did!
     
    Tinman, Feb 15, 2008
    #19
  20. mechphisto

    mechphisto Guest

    Thanks! Due to your help.
    What I ended up doing is reloading the sources, on a whim.
    After I did that, the BSD Subsystem to be installed suddenly went from
    2.0 to 2.1, and then installed easily.

    Now, looks like the only problems I have now are small annoying ones.
    Like Term-vt100 won't install, the weDict add-on dictionaries don't
    seem to be working, the Dock screenshot isn't saving the images, and
    iPhysics add-ons don't seem to be adding.
    The Customize package doesn't seem to be working, but I'm pretty sure
    that's because I have SummerBoard installed; I'll try uninstalling
    that and seeing if Customize will work.
    Otherwise, this is blast! I have PockeyMoney working, Books, TextEdit,
    and Finder. Those things alone make the iPhone my perfect PDA!
    Anything else is just gravy. =)

    Thanks for taking the time and effort to reply and offer advice! =)
    -Liam
     
    mechphisto, Feb 15, 2008
    #20
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