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4.0Ghz P4 now officially cancelled

Discussion in 'Intel' started by Yousuf Khan, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    Yousuf Khan, Oct 14, 2004
    #1
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  2. Yousuf Khan

    Grumble Guest

    I don't think one is allowed to say "officially" and "the Inquirer"
    in the same sentence.
     
    Grumble, Oct 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    Yousuf Khan, Oct 14, 2004
    #3
  4. Yousuf Khan

    AJ Guest

    It's sad how corps can get so caught up in their own BS that
    they have no concept of what's important (incapable of any kind
    of out-of-the-box thinking). Hopefully they'll be able to realize
    their mistakes and produce consumer-driven products and maybe
    even anticipate what is wanted before they get so far away from
    the mark in the future.

    Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
    choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
    become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
    already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.

    AJ
     
    AJ, Oct 15, 2004
    #4
  5. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    Not even sure why you would need to announce this, AMD and/or third-party
    motherboards should've always been on your radar, even before now.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Oct 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Either way, Intel's mbrds are not considered that great now - they were
    always a PITA with many models with a castrated BIOS Setup, the
    independents are doing such a great job anyway and Intel branded are often
    sub-contracted out now. Buy what suits your needs in the way of features &
    layout from one of the majors. The days when Taiwan, and even PRC mfr was
    crap are long past.

    Rgds, George Macdonald

    "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
     
    George Macdonald, Oct 15, 2004
    #6
  7. Can you say: "inventory reduction"?:)

    Rgds, George Macdonald

    "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
     
    George Macdonald, Oct 15, 2004
    #7
  8. Yousuf Khan

    Ghostrider Guest

    The consumer market has been slowing down in any event
    and throwing more capital into the Pentium-4 makes little
    or no sense at all. Of course, we all know that Intel has
    its own version of the "skunk works" (or certainly can
    afford to have one) and it would be interesting to see
    what mature product might emerge from Intel's R&D after
    2 or 3 years. With future business prospects being what
    they currently are, the ability to continuously upgrade
    has come to a screeching halt, anyway. "Innovate" may mean
    changing directions or going down a different path.
     
    Ghostrider, Oct 15, 2004
    #8
  9. Yousuf Khan

    JK Guest

    That may be what Intel is saying, but it is not what AMD is saying.

    Intel needs lower power consuming chips that are 64 bit and have
    integrated memory controllers to become competitive with AMD.

    This article is very interesting.

    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19105
    CPU sales at AMD are great! They increased 33% from from a
    year ago for the quarter ending in September, and increased
    21% from the June quarter. The industry is still growing, however
    AMD is gaining market market share. Intel's cpu sales grew only
    around 3-4% yoy and from last quarter.
    The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
    cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
    upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
    controllers are made by AMD though.
     
    JK, Oct 15, 2004
    #9
  10. Yousuf Khan

    JK Guest

    JK, Oct 15, 2004
    #10
  11. How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
    much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade
    when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
    fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
    Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????
     
    Johannes H Andersen, Oct 15, 2004
    #11
  12. Yousuf Khan

    JK Guest

    When the controller is on the cpu, it runs at the full speed of the cpu.
    There isn't a much slower off chip front side bus to be a bottleneck.
    There are those with 16 bit processors that still perform flawlessly,
    although some people want to run the latest and highest performing
    software, which in less than a year will probably be 64 bit software for
    most applications.
     
    JK, Oct 15, 2004
    #12
  13. Yousuf Khan

    gaffo Guest

    JK wrote:


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Talk about Beachfront property!

    How long did it take 16-bit to yield to 32-bit?....................

    no, don't bother, I'll tell you, effectively TEN YEARS!!!!!!!

    386-1986............................32 bit software showed up in 1996.

    64-bitness will remain irrelivant WRT to the home user for another 8 yrs
    or so. (using the Opteron initial release time).


    and yes - I beleive this is a realistic timeframe for "Joe Ave" (i.e.
    the mainstream).

    Just as in the late 80's and early 90's (i.e. 16bit on a 32bit)
    million of us will be using a 64-bit chip to run 32 bit software.


    Now a 64-bit chip means nothing to me, and on board memory controller
    which will let me run 32-bit/16-bit faster DOES MEAN SOMETHING.......in
    the "here and now".

    I'll buy for 64-bitness in the next decade - thanks.




    --
    http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

    http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


    As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
    instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
    And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
    -- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
    Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

    "It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
    were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
    whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
    criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
    in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
    may say,"
    Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
    Department Lawyer
    Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.

    If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
    the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
    George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
    Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
    vote for
    the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
    Republican Party.
    Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

    "But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
    -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
    an Iraqi prisoner.

    "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
    our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
    freedom of our country.
    -Iraqi Mahdi fighter

    "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
    One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
    so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
    the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
    -Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

    "the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
    Zionists
    and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
    -Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister

    "Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
    the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
    for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
    Houston Chronicle 4/9/99

    "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
    destabilize their country."
    Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

    "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
    of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
    incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
    to deal with this?'"
    - Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
    on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

    "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
    his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
    the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
    "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
    would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
    Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
    Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
    Bergner,
    Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
    William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
    Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
    Baghdad on their minds."
    -philip (usenet)

    "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
    -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

    "I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
    and running
    - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
    back, if I can put it that way,
    or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
    are going to allow us to exercise
    on their behalf and with their permission."
    - Powell 4/27/04

    "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
    are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
    obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
    On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
    moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
    moments."
    - Rumsfeld 4/6/04

    "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
    country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
    every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
    the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
    of freedom."
    ~ Bush the Crusader


    RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?

    BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

    RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?

    BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
    do for the country.
    See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
    changing times
    here in America, too., 2/8/04


    "And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
    I'm coming from,
    to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
    president.
    I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
    war on my mind.
    - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


    "Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
    based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
    these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
    he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
    And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
    - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


    "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
    Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
    - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03


    "I think in this case international law
    stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
    - Richard Perle


    "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
    respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
    conventional power against his neighbours."
    - Colin Powell February 24 2001


    "We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
    him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."

    "He threatens not the United States."

    "But I also thought that we had pretty
    much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

    'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
    for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
    keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
    "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
    - Colin Powell February 26 2001
     
    gaffo, Oct 16, 2004
    #13
  14. As much as I don't like JK he does make a good point about integrated memory
    controllers being a help (though not nessesarly that Intel *NEEDS* one to be
    compitive). AMD's integrated memory controller has really done more to help
    out the A64 than any other feature of the chip. There are many applications
    in the world where the lower latency memory controller is a huge advantage,
    and probably none where it is a diss-advantage.

    Carlo
     
    Carlo Razzeto, Oct 16, 2004
    #14
  15. Yousuf Khan

    keith Guest

    Think latency. An integrated memory controller has two less I/O
    crossings, *EACH WAY*. Clocks is clocks.
    Is that a serious question? I'm not sure what this has to do with th
    eprice of oats in China, but just to assue you that the world won't end
    without your grace, my Opteron has been performing flawlessly since June.
    ;-)
    ....and this has somehow *something* to do with performance? Wow, what
    some people will do to convince themselves that they made the right
    purchase. Good grief, don't apologize!
     
    keith, Oct 16, 2004
    #15
  16. Yousuf Khan

    keith Guest

    64bit applications are *here*. Pretty much everything I run here is 64bit.
    Oh, you're talking about WinBlows! Oh, you'll be waiting another decade
    for a usable OS. ;-)
    FOr WinBlows, perhaps. The rest of the world is moving.
    You're on drugs. OS/2 was 32 bit *long* before '96 and Linux is 64bit
    *now*.
    What *are* you smoking? *another* 8 years? It'll be relevant in less
    than two. ...not to mention that AMD64 does a rather nice 32bit, at a
    small cost.
    Ok, Joe Average will be happy with a P5 to download his spam. So? That's
    not the mainstream either. Withing two years, I think gamers are going to
    be 64b and mainstream (as in new) systems will be over 1GB (where 64bit
    processors are really needed - assuming you believe in virtual memory)
    Some are running 64bit software now. Get with it man! ;-)
    If you are a serious user (note that I didn't see any reason to upgrade a
    K6-III *until* AMD64 was reasonable), you'll be buying sooner than
    that, IMO. The memory barrier is a serious one and the cost[*] of 64bit
    is trivial.

    [*] even if the price is a tad high right now.
     
    keith, Oct 16, 2004
    #16
  17. Yousuf Khan

    AJ Guest

    Historically, good integrated motherboards for AMD haven't been there.

    AJ
     
    AJ, Oct 16, 2004
    #17
  18. Yousuf Khan

    AJ Guest

    On these cool fall days, (though I have the heat on in my home), my 2.4
    Northwood idles at under 30 C. As I type this, it's at 28. I have a Zalman
    7000 AlCu instead of the stock HSF though. Your 36 C idle temp sounds
    high to me, but maybe your ambient is higher too.

    AJ
     
    AJ, Oct 16, 2004
    #18
  19. Yousuf Khan

    AJ Guest

    I'm all set for the next few years with my Intel 865 MB and Northwood
    combo. :) I like it. By the time I'm ready again for a new machine,
    maybe they will have gone through all the interim models of boards
    and processors and have something I'll want again.

    AJ
     
    AJ, Oct 16, 2004
    #19
  20. Yousuf Khan

    Tony Hill Guest

    The integrated memory controller reduces memory latency by roughly
    20-30%. This is HUGE. Consider that processor speeds have increased
    by two orders of magnitude since the 386 days, while memory bandwidth
    has increased by well over one order of magnitude, but memory latency
    has only dropped by about 50%. Even with the VERY large caches that
    are becoming common on today's chips, memory latency is still a rather
    important part of the equation.

    This alone probably results in about a 10-15% improvement in system
    performance over a (theoretical) otherwise identical processor with an
    off-chip memory controller. I'm really not sure how much longer Intel
    can go with an off-chip memory controller, they are pretty much the
    ONLY company left that hasn't moved this on-chip (not counting the
    grandfathered designs like SGI MIPS chips and HP PA-RISC).
    Obviously there's absolutely no reason at all for you to upgrade a
    system that you built 4 months ago. However, for someone like me who
    built most of their system in early 2002, it's starting to get a bit
    long in the tooth (woohoo for me though, I just ordered a newer
    processor today!). Many others are running systems that are even
    older and may be looking into upgrading. Despite popular belief, a
    1.0GHz PIII does tend to feel a little bit sluggish these days once
    you're used to much faster processors.
     
    Tony Hill, Oct 16, 2004
    #20
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