8Kha+ and CPU Question

Discussion in 'Epox' started by BRH, Nov 19, 2005.

  1. BRH

    BRH Guest

    My system has an 8Kha+ mobo (Rev 2.0) with an AthlonXP 2600 CPU. I just
    upgraded my videocard to an ATI X800XT AIW, so now my CPU appears to be
    the bottleneck on my system.

    Is there any way for this mobo to use a faster CPU? If so, how? And
    which CPU can it take?

    Thanks!
     
    BRH, Nov 19, 2005
    #1
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  2. BRH

    JM Guest

    You're at the limits of that mobo. You are going to need a mobo that
    supports higher front side bus speeds, so you can at least upgrade to a
    Barton core Athlon. However, I would suggest a more substantial upgrade to
    something like an Athlon 64 socket 939 cpu/mob combo. One option is the
    Athlon 64 3000+ and the Epox 9NDA3J. This combo will allow you to reuse
    your video card and overclock to some really good speeds. Even at stock
    this will be a big jump over your current setup.

    jm
     
    JM, Dec 4, 2005
    #2
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  3. BRH

    BRH Guest

    Thanks for the suggestion. I'm hesitant to change the motherboard
    because I want to continue to use my existing hard drives without having
    to re-install WindowsXP and all apps.

    Is there a way of upgrading motherboards without going through this hassle?

    Thanks!
     
    BRH, Dec 5, 2005
    #3
  4. BRH

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, BRH.
    Yes. And No. ;^}

    You haven't said which OS you are using. I'm assuming WinXP, but for any
    version of Windows past Win9x/ME you can do an "in-place-upgrade", also
    known as a "repair install" or simply a reinstallation. The official
    instructions are here:
    How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windows XP
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q315341

    You might prefer Microsoft MVP Michael Stevens' version of the same
    instructions:
    http://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

    The in-place upgrade completely reinstalls WinXP itself but preserves your
    installed applications and data - and most of your tweaks. If you have
    WinXP SP2 already installed on your computer, you will have to use an
    updated version of the WinXP CD-ROM. If you use the original (RTM) CD,
    Setup will abort with the message that the version already on your computer
    is newer than the one it is trying to reinstall. After the in-place
    upgrade, you will need to visit Windows Update as soon as possible to get
    all the post-SP2 fixes. In most cases, you're looking at an hour or so for
    the reinstall, plus less than an hour (with broadband) for Windows Update.

    Changing only the CPU usually doesn't require the reinstallation, but a
    newer mobo almost always means a new chipset, HD controller, etc., and then
    Windows Setup must be run again to detect the new hardware environment. You
    can, of course, continue to use your old HDs. Except for the updated
    Windows operating system files and drivers, nothing should change. To
    Windows, there's not much difference between moving a HD to a different
    computer versus keeping the HD and rebuilding the mobo/chipset/CPU/RAM under
    it.

    RC
     
    R. C. White, Dec 6, 2005
    #4
  5. BRH

    JM Guest


    I feel your pain, and Mr. White covered the technical aspects of the issue
    very well in his reply.

    If you're open to opinions at this point, I would offer this: Don't change
    now. That cpu and v-card should be a pretty good combination at this point.
    If you're a gamer, then you know [deep down] how futile it is to chase
    ultimate frame rates, anyway, and, besides - contrary to popular opinion -
    there will ALWAYS be a "bottleneck" somewhere. I recently went through all
    the "hassle" you mentioned, to upgrade from a Barton core mobile 2500+ @
    2.3xGhz on an Abit NF7 to an Athlon 64 3000+ and the Epox 9NDA3J - with an
    eVGA 6800GT in both setups. Yes, I can get a handful more frames out of
    COD2, and/or I can turn a couple visual effects up, but that's about it.
    Frankly, with this upgrade I broke my "golden rule," which always has been:
    upgrade ONLY when it will allow me to be more productive, efficient, and/or
    have more fun. Of course, that's some very subjective ground, but there's a
    real line you can draw in there, too. You've got a nice setup that should
    handle pretty much anything you throw at it. Stick with it.

    Now, to qualify my comment above that an Athlon64 would be a "big jump over
    your current setup" I have to diverge into the territory that caused me to
    upgrade: Photo and video editing. The A64 cpu's do provide more IPC
    (instructions per cycle), even in 32-bit Windows, so per clock speed (fsb
    and cpu), the A64s outperform their similarly-rated T-breds and Bartons. I
    make money with graphics and video, so there is a justifiable element to any
    upgrade I do that allows me to work faster. Also, my current setup offers a
    few more things that are worth something to me: much cooler, quieter
    operation (I don't use the "Cool'N Quiet" feature), built-in Firewire and
    SATA/RAID, more USB ports, and the Epox came with a nifty universal magnetic
    screwdriver ; )) (I really do love that thing).

    In the end, there is no right or wrong. Just a bunch of fun and confusion
    for all us geeks ; ))

    Good luck.


    jm
     
    JM, Dec 13, 2005
    #5
  6. BRH

    Mattrixx Guest

    I have been following this thread with interest, as I too have Epox 8KHA+
    (though with XP2400+ overclocked to 2600+) and have been pondering the same
    upgrade dilema as
    BRH.
    I *have* decided to upgrade to Asus A8V deluxe MB and Athlon 64 3700+, but
    as of yet haven`t decided to yank the Epox, or just start from scratch with
    my extra (empty) case.

    I would like the advantages of all the Asus features on my main box, but the
    thought of transfering all my Programs and Data to the new MB (same
    hardware) leaves me anxious to say the least!
    I know there is the "Repair Installation" option, but I`ve read where that`s
    only 75% effective in most instances, not to mention any difficulty with
    that damn Windows Product Authorization process.

    My main hardware concern is with my "Promise" PCI IDE controller card, which
    I have presently been using on my Epox. This is not a RAID setup, but rather
    is used for my 3 HDD`s, while my 2 optical drives (and Zip drive) are hooked
    to the MB conventionally.

    I`m wondering if I will run into any unexpected difficulties if I should
    decide to just replace the Epox MB with all of my original hardware
    including the Promise Card and its present config, with the new Asus MB, and
    do a "Repair Installation", or whether I should just Install from scratch
    into a new case, with *NEW* hardware and a new XP Install?

    Thanks for any experienced insight

    Matt
     
    Mattrixx, Dec 13, 2005
    #6
  7. BRH

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Matt.

    My comments might be as vague and disconnected as your current plans. ;^}
    I'm not sure where your 75% number comes from, or what "effective" means in
    this context. I've done the repair install a dozen or so times. It's not a
    lot of fun, but it accomplishes its purpose, as I said earlier.

    WinXP can be activated on "the same computer" an unlimited number of times.
    But when is it not "the same computer"? If you swap HDs, it's still the
    same computer. Add or remove or exchange DIMMs. Or CD/DVD readers/writers.
    Audio or video cards. Still the same computer. But if you make all these
    changes at once, or either move the HD with WinXP installed to a different
    mobo, or replace the mobo on which the HD sits in the same case, is it still
    "the same computer"? I'm not sure. Microsoft has an algorithm that assigns
    a certain number of "votes" to the mobo, the CPU, the chipset, the NIC, the
    HD, etc. I've never tried to understand these rules, but when the critical
    number of votes is changed, automatic activation doesn't work anymore.
    Usually, a 5-minute toll-free phone call is enough to get that copy of WinXP
    reactivated in the new hardware environment, but most of us would rather not
    make that call. (I'm not sure why; my son and I just reconfigured his old
    computer to hand it down to his son; we had to make the phone call, but it
    was painless.)

    A retail copy of WinXP can be installed on a completely different computer,
    so long as it is removed from the original and it is not installed on two
    computers at the same time. If it has been more than 120 days since it was
    previously activated, it can be activated again over the Internet. If less
    than 120 days, the phone call will probably be required.

    The rules are different for OEM versions of WinXP, but they are complex and
    we don't need to go into them now. Basically, the rule is that an OEM copy
    is licensed only to the first computer on which it is installed and the
    license can't be transferred to another computer - but there are exceptions.

    Whether a clean install or a repair install, if your boot HD/controller is
    too new, too old or too exotic, you will need to use the F6 key during Setup
    to install drivers from a floppy. IDE drives seldom need the F6/floppy
    shuffle, but if your drives are controlled by a PCI card, rather than by the
    mobo/chipset, you might need to have the Promise drivers on a floppy when
    you run Setup. I've had to do this with SCSI HDs, and even when I connected
    an IDE HD to the HighPoint ATA-133 controller on my previous EPoX 8K3A+.
    But I didn't have to do that with WinXP on my new SATA HD plugged into the
    onboard SATA controller on this EPoX 8KDA3+ mobo. If you don't use your
    Promise card in your new mobo, you might be able to skip this step. The F6
    process is needed only for the HD that will be the boot device, not for
    secondary HDs.

    I'm not familiar with motherboards other than the ones I've used, and I've
    never used ASUS. But I'm sure any current mobo will support your existing
    HDs. All you should have to do is let WinXP Setup run so that it can detect
    your new hardware environment and re-customize your copy of WinXP to fit.
    Otherwise, it will be like WinXP wakes up in a new home and tries to cook in
    the bathroom because it remembers that's where the kitchen used to be. :>(

    Decide where you want to end up, Matt, and we can probably help you get
    there from here. ;<)

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP

     
    R. C. White, Dec 14, 2005
    #7
  8. BRH

    Mattrixx Guest



    Thank`s R.C.White, for your kind response to my admitedly "vague and
    disconnected plans" to determine the best option(s) to my forthcoming
    upgrade.

    That 75% I was refering to was a quote from another post on a different
    newsgroup.

    "We are a dealer and have found that doing a repair installation of Windows
    XP immediately after installing the new motherboard works ~75% of
    the time. That keeps all your programs, desktop settings, etc. intact."
    (The responder will remain nameless)

    Irregardless of the actual percentage of successfull repair installations,
    I`m trying to way the advantages and disadvantages of going this route,
    versus just a "New" XP Install on a different box.

    In my own experience, I have had to re-install my OEM XP once before, after
    a Hard Drive crash and replacement. I did however, have to re- activate
    which was painless.
    Since that time I have gotten into the habit of creating Norton Ghost disk
    images, just in case I need to restore again.

    In your opinion would it be best to install (OEM) XP "fresh" onto a new MB
    and starting from scratch, or a repair install on the new MB?

    Thanks again for any reply

    Matt
     
    Mattrixx, Dec 14, 2005
    #8
  9. BRH

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Matt.
    My opinion might not be worth much since I've not worked with an OEM WinXP.
    My understanding is that this can only be "clean installed" and can't be
    used to upgrade from another installed copy of Windows. The idea is that
    the OEM version is expected to be installed on a newly-built computer for
    delivery to the first customer.

    With the major changes that you plan to make (starting with the mobo), a
    clean install is probably the best course. You'll have to install all your
    apps again, of course, but that's not always a bad thing. You won't bother
    to reinstall all the long-forgotten programs that were cluttering up your
    old system, probably including some that ran under Win3.x and Win9x/ME. You
    can easily move your old data to your new system, then all you have to do is
    run the apps and point to the new locations for their data.

    Good luck, Matt. Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you.

    RC
     
    R. C. White, Dec 14, 2005
    #9
  10. BRH

    M Lynn Guest

    I upgraded my mobo in April using the instructions here,
    http://www.windowsreinstall.com/install/other/motherboard/win2k.htm

    I had no problems at all with XP Pro. I used solution 4 about halfway
    down but I also followed the steps in solution 7 as a safety net.

    The bottom line is that if it goes wrong, you haven`t lost anything
    and you just reformat anyway. If it goes right, you avoid having to
    reinstall everything from scratch.
     
    M Lynn, Dec 15, 2005
    #10
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