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9600 non-pro, 9600 pro vs. 9800SE

Discussion in 'ATI' started by Tud, Nov 20, 2003.

  1. Tud

    Tud Guest

    Hy!

    Can anybody tell me if 9800SE is really a good alternative to 9600pro
    if
    I am going to use the card mainly for 3D game making?

    I mean, I don't have enough money for a 9800 or 9800 pro,
    but I would (ideally) need full dx9 support. Is this achieved by
    9800SE too (as compared to the other 9800's). And what about
    performance of this Strange Edition? Can't find reliable reviews on
    that and neither for 9600 non-pro and I would need to be sure there
    aren't any cuts BUT performance(FrameSec) related ones in this SE
    cards.

    About 9600. I found a reasonably priced card, namely
    "Gigabyte GV-R96128D-ATI Radeon 9600-128Mb DDRAM AGP 8X TV-OUT DVI
    Dual display Retail (64bit)" - 114 USD. The cheapest pro version is
    at 180 USD. Does anybody know of any review for it? Or, if you have
    it, how does it behave?
    Any reson to go for Hercules at 190 Euro, for huge retail 9600pro?

    I have seen many frequencies listed for the 9600 cards off various
    manufacturers. Which are the default ones? and memory speeds also.

    Thank you!
     
    Tud, Nov 20, 2003
    #1
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  2. Tud

    J.Clarke Guest

    All of them.
     
    J.Clarke, Nov 21, 2003
    #2
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  3. Tud

    Dark Avenger Guest

    The 9800SE is not the card you seek, it's pushed way to far down the
    budget level to really give interresting performance.

    I would say that the 9600 Pro is something you should go for!
     
    Dark Avenger, Nov 21, 2003
    #3
  4. Tud

    Magwheelz Guest

    Which of these 3 support dx9? If you are "going to need it" (and if
    you are a gamer you will) then this is your call.
    Gotta go,
    Magwheelz
     
    Magwheelz, Nov 21, 2003
    #4
  5. Tud

    J.Clarke Guest

    On 21 Nov 2003 23:49:38 -0800
    I believe you are confusing present and future standards and the types
    of shader. There are two different types of shader supported by DirectX
    9, the vertex shader and the pixel shader. DirectX 9 provides vertex
    shader 2.0 and 3.0, and pixel shader 2.0. 2.0 requires a 96-instruction
    pixel shader length, and any board that provides this is in compliance
    with that part of the specification.

    Where the confusion comes in is that there is a preliminary standard for
    pixel shader 3.0, which requires support for 512-instruction pixel
    shaders. That is _not_ part of DirectX 9--it is different from the
    _vertex_ shader 3.0 that _is_ in DirectX 9. There were rumors of
    a "DirectX 9.1" that would be released as a"bug fix" and include pixel
    shader 3.0, however the bug fix turned out to be"9.0b" instead of"9.1"
    and did not include pixel shader 3.0. There is little question that
    pixel shader 3.0 will be included in a future release of DirectX, but
    when that will happen is an open question.

    Meanwhile the 96-instruction shaders that the 9500, 9600, 9700 support
    are all that is necessary for DirectX 9 compliance.

    This whole issue is FUD stirred up by nvidia's PR department when ATI
    started kicking their butts in the reviews.
     
    J.Clarke, Nov 22, 2003
    #5
  6. Tud

    Tud Guest

    True, but only 9800 range of cards have "full dx9 compatibility", as
    in
    unlimited shader length.

    Also, I have seen this article on 9800SE that got me thinkin' :
    http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD02NTU

    Only if I were lucky enough to get that percent of good chips...

    Anyway, what sort of cuts does 9800SE have besides disabled pipes?
    If I go for this, I would have to be able to program dx9 games the
    same way like on the other 9800's. Does anybody see any reason why
    this would not be so?

    Thanks !

    Tud
     
    Tud, Nov 22, 2003
    #6
  7. Tud

    Darthy Guest

    I've setup a 9600se to replace a failed Sappire 9000Pro card...

    The 9600se was slower. It has 64bit memory, insteadof 128bit memory
    which really hurts. For $130 retail with Half Life2 is not a bad
    price but not for serious gaming.

    Get at least a 9600... or 9600Pro ($160)... 9600XT includes Half
    Life2.

    http://www.ati.com/gitg/promotions/hl2offer/index.html
     
    Darthy, Nov 24, 2003
    #7
  8. Tud

    Tud Guest

    It is exactly this marketing gimmick that I'm trying to avoid.
    I found something on ati's site regarding the SMARTSHADER version:
    http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9600/radeon9600pro/specs.html
    http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9800/radeon9800pro/specs.html

    It looks like the 9800 range has the upper hand, and I'm pretty sure
    that "F-buffer with unlimited instruction" is a feature that is going
    to be used in the near future in games. So I think I'll go for a
    9800SE, except if anyone can persuade me against it. (I need mostly
    great programability not excesive gaming power).

    Thanks!
     
    Tud, Nov 24, 2003
    #8
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