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A quick look at Bulldozer thread scheduling

Discussion in 'Intel' started by Yousuf Khan, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    It looks like AMD could've saved themselves a lot of embarrassment by
    simply making the secondary cores in each module look like an Intel
    Hyperthreading thread rather than simply as another full core.

    A quick look at Bulldozer thread scheduling - The Tech Report - Page 1
    http://techreport.com/articles.x/21865
     
    Yousuf Khan, Nov 10, 2011
    #1
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  2. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 10/11/2011 7:24 AM, Orson Cart wrote:
    > Yousuf Khan<> wrote:
    >> It looks like AMD could've saved themselves a lot of embarrassment
    >> by
    >> simply making the secondary cores in each module look like an Intel
    >>
    >> Hyperthreading thread rather than simply as another full core.
    >>
    >> A quick look at Bulldozer thread scheduling - The Tech Report - Page
    >> 1
    >> http://techreport.com/articles.x/21865
    >>

    >
    > There have been a million words uttered about how Windoze 7 fumbles with Bulldozer
    > (or vice versa). But what about the penguins? I imagine the latest versions
    > of say Ubuntu or Oracle linux might be kludged to multi-task on Bulldozer.
    > I doubt the Interlagos and Valencias will fly out the door if they have the
    > same problem.


    Does slightly better in Linux than in Windows 7. Some support for BD
    built into the Linux 3.0/3.1 kernels, more coming in the 3.2 kernel.

    [Phoronix] AMD FX-8150 Bulldozer On Ubuntu Linux Review
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_fx8150_bulldozer&num=1
     
    Yousuf Khan, Nov 10, 2011
    #2
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  3. Yousuf Khan

    willbill Guest

    Thu, 10 Nov 2011 02:14:03 -0500, Yousuf Khan <> wrote:

    > It looks like AMD could've saved themselves a lot of embarrassment by
    > simply making the secondary cores in each module look like an Intel
    > Hyperthreading thread rather than simply as another full core.
    >
    > A quick look at Bulldozer thread scheduling - The Tech Report - Page 1
    > http://techreport.com/articles.x/21865


    Nice ref, nice site.

    What's your take on value of 4-core FX-4100 at $105?

    Re the site, I found "Life in the lab with Noctua's CPU coolers"
    to be more interesting: http://techreport.com/articles.x/21873

    I've 2 of the NH-U12P SE2, so count me as biased. :)

    bill
     
    willbill, Nov 20, 2011
    #3
  4. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 20/11/2011 12:17 PM, willbill wrote:
    > Thu, 10 Nov 2011 02:14:03 -0500, Yousuf Khan<> wrote:
    >
    >> It looks like AMD could've saved themselves a lot of embarrassment by
    >> simply making the secondary cores in each module look like an Intel
    >> Hyperthreading thread rather than simply as another full core.
    >>
    >> A quick look at Bulldozer thread scheduling - The Tech Report - Page 1
    >> http://techreport.com/articles.x/21865

    >
    > Nice ref, nice site.
    >
    > What's your take on value of 4-core FX-4100 at $105?


    Probably depends on what you're upgrading from. I just picked up a
    Phenom II X6 1100T BE to replace an X3 710. It was both an upgrade in
    GHz as well as cores. So that was a noticeable upgrade. But those are 6
    real cores. A 4-core Bulldozer's cores would be more like 2 cores and 4
    Hyperthreads. Bulldozers do start off with pretty high GHz though, which
    is nice.

    > Re the site, I found "Life in the lab with Noctua's CPU coolers"
    > to be more interesting: http://techreport.com/articles.x/21873
    >
    > I've 2 of the NH-U12P SE2, so count me as biased. :)


    I haven't ventured into the realm of aftermarket coolers yet. I'm trying
    to find some headroom within my stock coolers right now.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Nov 26, 2011
    #4
  5. Yousuf Khan

    willbill Guest

    Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:19:40 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:

    > On 20/11/2011 12:17 PM, willbill wrote:
    > > Thu, 10 Nov 2011 02:14:03 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:
    > >
    > >> It looks like AMD could've saved themselves a lot of embarrassment by
    > >> simply making the secondary cores in each module look like an Intel
    > >> Hyperthreading thread rather than simply as another full core.
    > >>
    > >> A quick look at Bulldozer thread scheduling - The Tech Report - Page 1
    > >> http://techreport.com/articles.x/21865

    > >
    > > Nice ref, nice site.
    > >
    > > What's your take on value of 4-core FX-4100 at $105?

    >
    > Probably depends on what you're upgrading from. I just picked up a
    > Phenom II X6 1100T BE to replace an X3 710. It was both an upgrade in
    > GHz as well as cores. So that was a noticeable upgrade. But those are 6
    > real cores. A 4-core Bulldozer's cores would be more like 2 cores and 4
    > Hyperthreads. Bulldozers do start off with pretty high GHz though, which
    > is nice.


    Thanks for the response.

    I'm running Phenom II X4 955 BE, so for me
    it's not likely to be much of an upgrade.

    BTW I read your separate thread on your new
    Phenom II X6 1100T BE with interest. :)

    re FX-4100, I wouldn't mind getting some 1st hand
    experience as that's what really counts. I've also
    already got a decent AM3+ mobo.

    For the moment I'm waiting to see a detailed
    review of the FX-4100. So far the initial month
    of user reviews are positive, but it's easy
    to write that off as AMD "fan boy" stuff.

    I'm also starting to look at Intel, but that'd take
    both a cpu and mobo, and the Intel based mobo's
    cost more than the comparable AMD units.
    If you hadn't noticed, the last time I bought
    Intel was a very long time ago. :)

    BTW I noticed that XMAS showed up two
    full weeks earlier this year than last. :)

    Comment on PBS news a few days ago
    was that per person spending is likely
    to be slightly down this season, hence
    the earlier advertising.

    Anyhow, It's not like I'm doing anything so
    demanding that I need to move to a more
    powerful PC setup. And as I've not seen
    any great deals (I'm not really looking),
    I'll keep waiting.

    > > Re the site, I found "Life in the lab with Noctua's CPU coolers"
    > > to be more interesting: http://techreport.com/articles.x/21873
    > >
    > > I've 2 of the NH-U12P SE2, so count me as biased. :)

    >
    > I haven't ventured into the realm of aftermarket coolers yet. I'm trying
    > to find some headroom within my stock coolers right now.


    FWIW, I only use the best of AMD's stock
    coolers with my least demanding cpu's.
    They're inadequate and noisy with most
    of AMD's faster cpu's.

    While the Noctua coolers look expensive,
    they're in fact the cheapest of all of them
    as you get premium fans (*plural*) along
    with the premium heatsink. I also like that
    Noctua provides convenient in-line resistors
    that allow the fan speed to be lowered.

    The NH-U12P SE2 does need a case that's
    a minimum of roughly 8" thick. amazon
    tends to have best pricing, but not always.
    And due to their use of 3rd party vendors,
    pricing varies a lot there.

    Bill
     
    willbill, Nov 26, 2011
    #5
  6. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 26/11/2011 4:59 PM, willbill wrote:
    > Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:19:40 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:
    >> Probably depends on what you're upgrading from. I just picked up a
    >> Phenom II X6 1100T BE to replace an X3 710. It was both an upgrade in
    >> GHz as well as cores. So that was a noticeable upgrade. But those are 6
    >> real cores. A 4-core Bulldozer's cores would be more like 2 cores and 4
    >> Hyperthreads. Bulldozers do start off with pretty high GHz though, which
    >> is nice.

    >
    > Thanks for the response.
    >
    > I'm running Phenom II X4 955 BE, so for me
    > it's not likely to be much of an upgrade.


    Also what I think. Perhaps, a Bulldozer 8xxx series would be much more
    noticeable too you: 4 modules/8 cores in AMD terminology, 4 cores/8
    threads in generic terminology.

    > I'm also starting to look at Intel, but that'd take
    > both a cpu and mobo, and the Intel based mobo's
    > cost more than the comparable AMD units.
    > If you hadn't noticed, the last time I bought
    > Intel was a very long time ago. :)


    I don't see a problem with going Intel, if you really want a performance
    upgrade that's noticeable right now. But in order to do that, you'll
    need not just an expensive Intel mobo, but also an expensive Intel
    processor. The high-end Phenom II's, despite their pre-conceived
    sad-sack reputations are no slouches when compared to Intel's offerings.
    Only the highest end Intels would put them to shame, and only in some
    cases.

    You might find that going with an FM1 motherboard with an upcoming
    Trinity core processor would be the better deal. The built-in *real* GPU
    alone would be worth it.

    > Anyhow, It's not like I'm doing anything so
    > demanding that I need to move to a more
    > powerful PC setup. And as I've not seen
    > any great deals (I'm not really looking),
    > I'll keep waiting.


    I waited 3-4 years for this particular upgrade, myself.

    >>> Re the site, I found "Life in the lab with Noctua's CPU coolers"
    >>> to be more interesting: http://techreport.com/articles.x/21873
    >>>
    >>> I've 2 of the NH-U12P SE2, so count me as biased. :)

    >>
    >> I haven't ventured into the realm of aftermarket coolers yet. I'm trying
    >> to find some headroom within my stock coolers right now.

    >
    > FWIW, I only use the best of AMD's stock
    > coolers with my least demanding cpu's.
    > They're inadequate and noisy with most
    > of AMD's faster cpu's.


    I'm thinking that with the current processor that I have, if I do decide
    to replace the stock cooler, then I'll go with a water cooler right off
    the bat.

    Actually, my priority is not a cooler for the next upgrade. It would
    either be an SSD, or an upgrade to my GPU. The GPU because I've waited
    even longer to upgrade my GPU than the CPU, currently a Geforce 8600GT.
    The SSD because I'm finding that really my biggest daily bottleneck is
    my OS boot disk speed. Based on Windows Experience Index, my biggest
    bottleneck is the GPU, rated at 4.8 out of 7.9; but my hard disks get
    5.9 on the index. But of course, it's the hard disk that gets used
    constantly, the highest functions of the GPU is used infrequently.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Nov 28, 2011
    #6
  7. Yousuf Khan

    willbill Guest

    Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:21:50 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:

    > On 26/11/2011 4:59 PM, willbill wrote:


    >> I'm running Phenom II X4 955 BE, so for me
    >> it's not likely to be much of an upgrade.

    >
    > Also what I think. Perhaps, a Bulldozer 8xxx series would be much more
    > noticeable too you: 4 modules/8 cores in AMD terminology, 4 cores/8
    > threads in generic terminology.


    Interesting thought. I'm not likely to spend the money
    for either of the 8 core FX cpus, but I'll start paying
    some attention to pricing of the 6 core FX cpu.

    Your buy of a 6 core Phenom II X6 1100T BE suggests
    that you either run multi-threaded apps, or think that
    this will pick up in the near future?

    >... The high-end Phenom II's, despite their pre-conceived sad-sack
    > reputations are no slouches when compared to Intel's offerings.
    > Only the highest end Intels would put them to shame,
    > and only in some cases.


    Agreed.

    > You might find that going with an FM1 motherboard with an upcoming
    > Trinity core processor would be the better deal. The built-in *real* GPU
    > alone would be worth it.


    The apu arena is another that I'll be paying
    more attention to. Given the likely additional
    complexity (both hardware and software),
    I don't see going there any time soon.

    > I'm thinking that with the current processor that I have, if I do decide
    > to replace the stock cooler, then I'll go with a water cooler right off
    > the bat.


    Whoa! There's a jump into the deep end. :)

    Given you've zero experience with after-market
    air coolers, have you got a ref that makes a case
    for water cooling over air cooling? I'm mainly
    talking money/performance/convenience ratio
    as that seems to be a key interest of yours.

    > Actually, my priority is not a cooler for the next upgrade. It would
    > either be an SSD, or an upgrade to my GPU. The GPU because I've waited
    > even longer to upgrade my GPU than the CPU, currently a Geforce 8600GT.
    > The SSD because I'm finding that really my biggest daily bottleneck is
    > my OS boot disk speed. Based on Windows Experience Index, my biggest
    > bottleneck is the GPU, rated at 4.8 out of 7.9; but my hard disks get
    > 5.9 on the index. But of course, it's the hard disk that gets used
    > constantly, the highest functions of the GPU is used infrequently.
    >
    > Yousuf Khan


    All three are clear upgrades. I'd tend to think more in
    terms of time screwing around with getting it functional:
    1. GPU = least time spent
    2. SSD = some time spent, especially 1st time
    3. cooler = most time spent; key side benefit = quieter

    Bill
     
    willbill, Nov 28, 2011
    #7
  8. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 28/11/2011 9:40 AM, willbill wrote:
    > Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:21:50 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:
    >
    >> On 26/11/2011 4:59 PM, willbill wrote:

    >
    >>> I'm running Phenom II X4 955 BE, so for me
    >>> it's not likely to be much of an upgrade.

    >>
    >> Also what I think. Perhaps, a Bulldozer 8xxx series would be much more
    >> noticeable too you: 4 modules/8 cores in AMD terminology, 4 cores/8
    >> threads in generic terminology.

    >
    > Interesting thought. I'm not likely to spend the money
    > for either of the 8 core FX cpus, but I'll start paying
    > some attention to pricing of the 6 core FX cpu.
    >
    > Your buy of a 6 core Phenom II X6 1100T BE suggests
    > that you either run multi-threaded apps, or think that
    > this will pick up in the near future?


    You don't need individual highly multi-threaded apps to take advantage
    of the threading. Just running Windows, you always have several things
    running simultaneously. I've gone from single-core to dual-core triple
    core, to currently hexa-core, and system responsiveness always gets
    smoother with the more cores/threads you have. I found double-core used
    to get heavily bogged down easily under Windows. Triple-core was much
    more tamed, but still it would've been nice to have at least one more
    core available. And now of course, I got 3 more cores. I expect I won't
    be maxing that out for a couple of years yet.

    >> I'm thinking that with the current processor that I have, if I do decide
    >> to replace the stock cooler, then I'll go with a water cooler right off
    >> the bat.

    >
    > Whoa! There's a jump into the deep end. :)
    >
    > Given you've zero experience with after-market
    > air coolers, have you got a ref that makes a case
    > for water cooling over air cooling? I'm mainly
    > talking money/performance/convenience ratio
    > as that seems to be a key interest of yours.


    No, but I'm also not in the market for any sort of aftermarket cooling
    system either. I figure by the time I'm ready to go there, I'll be able
    to really research it. Both AMD and Intel are now offering water-cooling
    on their next-gen processors. Also I got a pretty decent full-tower
    case, just upgraded last year, which already has holes drilled in for
    water-cooling pipes.


    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Nov 29, 2011
    #8
  9. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 03/12/2011 8:18 AM, Orson Cart wrote:
    > Yousuf Khan<> wrote:
    >>
    >> No, but I'm also not in the market for any sort of aftermarket cooling
    >>
    >> system either. I figure by the time I'm ready to go there, I'll be
    >> able
    >> to really research it. Both AMD and Intel are now offering water-cooling
    >>
    >> on their next-gen processors. Also I got a pretty decent full-tower
    >>
    >> case, just upgraded last year, which already has holes drilled in
    >> for
    >> water-cooling pipes.
    >>
    >>

    > What took them so long? I recall years ago a Pentium D 3.4 GHz, that was amazingly
    > rated at 95 W TDP. Yet the Intel cooler was maximum RPM within 90 seconds of
    > booting. Surely they needed better cooling way back then.


    I think they were able to hang onto the traditional cooling systems
    longer with the advance of internal CPU thermal control circuitry. The
    processors wouldn't get to high temperatures until they were really
    pushed for power.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Dec 5, 2011
    #9
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